2016 recruiting.
- Thread starter TeamCarolina71
- Start date
On the first point, I think if JP's leaving has any effect at all on our preseason hype, it's that his departure will make us better. I'm not saying I agree, but that's pretty much the general thought regarding JP and his fit on our team. But your second point is a valid one - we were indeed top 10 preseason this year. Where did we finish? 13. Not too far off from where many had thought we'd be but I guess - from the most pessimistic view - that is underachieving. Thanks for pointing out with such vehemence that we ever so slightly underachieved.
Perhaps you're right about JP not affecting our preseason hype. But we won't know until we see the team play next year. Although I'll admit I was tough on JP, I still think having him is better than not. Just like I would have rather had JMM this year than not. Maybe I am looking at this with a glass half empty view, but considering how much so many people on this board hyped this team up this year, I don't know why that's so unbelievable. I still love UNC Basketball and hope for the best, but if this previous year has taught me anything, it's that staying optimistic with 12 losses and not picking up any new talent while other schools get 5 star recruits that compete for titles year in and year out with the snap of their fingers is not an easy task.
Reading the above my mind circled in on that question of would we have been better this past season with JMM and the suggestion we would be better with JP next season. First, IMO, yes of course JMM would have made us better this season if we had him available. I never had any indication that JMM was a probllem in the locker room, never read any parting shots from him aimed at the staff or the school. Certainly never saw anything that indicated that JMM felt he was not being used properly, the kid got married and wanted to start his working life so he jumped, felt he would have benifited from another season but his decision and I had no problem with him for making it.
But JP's parting shots place him in a far different light in my mind, it kind of brings together some things I saw and others talked about but none of us saw it at the time as JP being disatisfied with his teammates or the coaches. But those parting words for me tied things together, strikes me now that he was a real chemistry problem in that locker room. I don't care how much talent a kid has, if he is a chemistry killer in the locker room then the team is not going to be what it needs to be with him on the team. So yeah, if JP was a bad seed in that locker room then the team will be better without him, just as the team the next year was better without Larry Drew & Ed Davis.
The bit about staying optimistic being hard when we have not loaded up with freshmen in this class bothers me as well. But you are quoting records with out considering at all a few things. First, I would much rather have returning high level talent than bring in freshmen, the above stetement seems to ignor continued developement of returning players. The core of our last 2 national title teams were Jr & sr players, guys that came back and got better.
This UNC team, while we lost some tuff games, we were right there with duke, lost to them twice in what can only be considered 2 great games for anyone to enjoy if not a partisan fan for either team. WE lost to Ky early but we scored more than they did in the second half of that game, had a lead for most of that whisky game, lost to the team that did take KY & Arizona out of the NCAAT, Point being we were not that far out in those games, we were right there at the brink, we were right there at the brink the year before we won it all the last time to. I am VERY excited about next season, wish we could start it right now today! We are already projected to be ion the next season NCAAT title game and that will not change based on JP's decision, it was doubtful he would even be a starter next season in the first place. Not with Berry pretty much a lock to start at the point and Jackson is now a fixture at the 3 and Pinson is waiting in the wings.
Personally, I would be fine with us not adding anyone else to our roster from this recruiting class. I would MUCH RATHER we save the schollys for the 2016 class, that is a big time class and we are in the fight for several top shelf talents that will really improve this team in areas that we are weaker in more so than bringing in a one & done or a one & done wanna be. If not careful we could have more chemistry issues if we bring in a freshman that demands immediate PT that is not as ready to contribute as the returning guys are.
"I completely agree that college basketball is watered down. The OAD rule along with the emergence of mid majors has done it. 25 years ago, Emmanuel Mudiay goes to college...and probably stays 3 years. Shoe contracts have kids going to schools that they probably don't go to without that school being an Adidas school or a Nike school."
"I was unsure what he was referring to by "watered down". I hate that shoe companies can control recruits like they do. I have even worse opinions on OAD. Though, I wish Roy would attempt to land one of them every now and then. IIRC, Roy didn't go after Trey Lyles for this reason. Not completely sure on that though."
College ball is watered down, the NBA is watered down as well, it is all part of the same problem, kids feel they are ready to be the best in the world and don't feel they need the coaching & learning experience that the college game allows. This is a problem the power programs have, the mid majors don't really have this problem so they actually get to field highly experienced teams.
It isn't just a one & done problem, it is a win deep in to the tourney and you are more likely to lose your sophs & Jr guys as well. You see power program snow day, the blue bloods, look at their starting rosters, they are filled with freshmen & sophs, look at those mid majors, their starters are Jr & Sr players most often. WE have come to the point where so many fans seen to be willing to kick out the value of experience, it is all about the talent no matter how raw it may be, experience doesn't matter if it didn't play in a Micky D game. It is a bit of a reflection of our society as a whole, this notion of instant gratification and the lack of being willing to put in all the long hard work over time that has always been the bench mark of success. "I want it all and I want it NOW"! That defines so much of what we see now days and it defines what we see in this sport, fans want NCAATs now, kids want to play at the very highest levels of the game now, no one is willing to allow the time for the cake to bake and yet they demand a perfectly baked cake? LOL
We want to tout how great Ochafor is but Kaminski, a senior, won national player of the year, Ky is being touted as the best team inthe country next season already yet they just lost their 7 top players and so far only have 3 comits for next season? Duke is being hyped as top 5 or so already for next season yet they stare at the very real possibility of losing their top 4 players and it is that top 4 that lead that team in production. Duke doesn't even know if they will have a PG on their roster next season but they are already being hyped as a top 10 team? We can't even wait to see what players teams will have before we start with the hype for next season? This is crazy but it is happening and folks are buying in to that nonsense?
What really scares me is I get this feeling that many, yes many here, would not mind at all having a coach like kalipari, a coach that is willing to do "ANYTHING" that it takes to get the very best talents come to UNC, no matter how much of it has to be hidden from the press & the NCAA. Sure, lets be part of back room shoe deals, sure lets cater to agents in the back room, sure lets look the other way when dirty tricks are done that funnel that next great talent to your program. Sure, lets do what ever it takes to get William Wesley working in those back rooms for us, sure lets hide it all from the NCAA cause if ya ain't cheatin ya ain't tryin right?
NO, I don't want UNC to become that, the NCAA cloud that has been around us is bad enough, I darn sure do not want UNC doing what the SEC does daily and rest assured we have not been doing those things. Yeah, UNC like EVERY other big time program has easy classes that athletes gravitate to, sorry Bo but I gurantee ya your whisky school has them to, as do the dukies. Geez, most of the posters here took easy classes themselves that helped them get their degrees.
Perhaps you're right about JP not affecting our preseason hype. But we won't know until we see the team play next year. Although I'll admit I was tough on JP, I still think having him is better than not. Just like I would have rather had JMM this year than not. Maybe I am looking at this with a glass half empty view, but considering how much so many people on this board hyped this team up this year, I don't know why that's so unbelievable. I still love UNC Basketball and hope for the best, but if this previous year has taught me anything, it's that staying optimistic with 12 losses and not picking up any new talent while other schools get 5 star recruits that compete for titles year in and year out with the snap of their fingers is not an easy task.
Reading the above my mind circled in on that question of would we have been better this past season with JMM and the suggestion we would be better with JP next season. First, IMO, yes of course JMM would have made us better this season if we had him available. I never had any indication that JMM was a probllem in the locker room, never read any parting shots from him aimed at the staff or the school. Certainly never saw anything that indicated that JMM felt he was not being used properly, the kid got married and wanted to start his working life so he jumped, felt he would have benifited from another season but his decision and I had no problem with him for making it.
But JP's parting shots place him in a far different light in my mind, it kind of brings together some things I saw and others talked about but none of us saw it at the time as JP being disatisfied with his teammates or the coaches. But those parting words for me tied things together, strikes me now that he was a real chemistry problem in that locker room. I don't care how much talent a kid has, if he is a chemistry killer in the locker room then the team is not going to be what it needs to be with him on the team. So yeah, if JP was a bad seed in that locker room then the team will be better without him, just as the team the next year was better without Larry Drew & Ed Davis.
The bit about staying optimistic being hard when we have not loaded up with freshmen in this class bothers me as well. But you are quoting records with out considering at all a few things. First, I would much rather have returning high level talent than bring in freshmen, the above stetement seems to ignor continued developement of returning players. The core of our last 2 national title teams were Jr & sr players, guys that came back and got better.
This UNC team, while we lost some tuff games, we were right there with duke, lost to them twice in what can only be considered 2 great games for anyone to enjoy if not a partisan fan for either team. WE lost to Ky early but we scored more than they did in the second half of that game, had a lead for most of that whisky game, lost to the team that did take KY & Arizona out of the NCAAT, Point being we were not that far out in those games, we were right there at the brink, we were right there at the brink the year before we won it all the last time to. I am VERY excited about next season, wish we could start it right now today! We are already projected to be ion the next season NCAAT title game and that will not change based on JP's decision, it was doubtful he would even be a starter next season in the first place. Not with Berry pretty much a lock to start at the point and Jackson is now a fixture at the 3 and Pinson is waiting in the wings.
Personally, I would be fine with us not adding anyone else to our roster from this recruiting class. I would MUCH RATHER we save the schollys for the 2016 class, that is a big time class and we are in the fight for several top shelf talents that will really improve this team in areas that we are weaker in more so than bringing in a one & done or a one & done wanna be. If not careful we could have more chemistry issues if we bring in a freshman that demands immediate PT that is not as ready to contribute as the returning guys are.
"I completely agree that college basketball is watered down. The OAD rule along with the emergence of mid majors has done it. 25 years ago, Emmanuel Mudiay goes to college...and probably stays 3 years. Shoe contracts have kids going to schools that they probably don't go to without that school being an Adidas school or a Nike school."
"I was unsure what he was referring to by "watered down". I hate that shoe companies can control recruits like they do. I have even worse opinions on OAD. Though, I wish Roy would attempt to land one of them every now and then. IIRC, Roy didn't go after Trey Lyles for this reason. Not completely sure on that though."
College ball is watered down, the NBA is watered down as well, it is all part of the same problem, kids feel they are ready to be the best in the world and don't feel they need the coaching & learning experience that the college game allows. This is a problem the power programs have, the mid majors don't really have this problem so they actually get to field highly experienced teams.
It isn't just a one & done problem, it is a win deep in to the tourney and you are more likely to lose your sophs & Jr guys as well. You see power program snow day, the blue bloods, look at their starting rosters, they are filled with freshmen & sophs, look at those mid majors, their starters are Jr & Sr players most often. WE have come to the point where so many fans seen to be willing to kick out the value of experience, it is all about the talent no matter how raw it may be, experience doesn't matter if it didn't play in a Micky D game. It is a bit of a reflection of our society as a whole, this notion of instant gratification and the lack of being willing to put in all the long hard work over time that has always been the bench mark of success. "I want it all and I want it NOW"! That defines so much of what we see now days and it defines what we see in this sport, fans want NCAATs now, kids want to play at the very highest levels of the game now, no one is willing to allow the time for the cake to bake and yet they demand a perfectly baked cake? LOL
We want to tout how great Ochafor is but Kaminski, a senior, won national player of the year, Ky is being touted as the best team inthe country next season already yet they just lost their 7 top players and so far only have 3 comits for next season? Duke is being hyped as top 5 or so already for next season yet they stare at the very real possibility of losing their top 4 players and it is that top 4 that lead that team in production. Duke doesn't even know if they will have a PG on their roster next season but they are already being hyped as a top 10 team? We can't even wait to see what players teams will have before we start with the hype for next season? This is crazy but it is happening and folks are buying in to that nonsense?
What really scares me is I get this feeling that many, yes many here, would not mind at all having a coach like kalipari, a coach that is willing to do "ANYTHING" that it takes to get the very best talents come to UNC, no matter how much of it has to be hidden from the press & the NCAA. Sure, lets be part of back room shoe deals, sure lets cater to agents in the back room, sure lets look the other way when dirty tricks are done that funnel that next great talent to your program. Sure, lets do what ever it takes to get William Wesley working in those back rooms for us, sure lets hide it all from the NCAA cause if ya ain't cheatin ya ain't tryin right?
NO, I don't want UNC to become that, the NCAA cloud that has been around us is bad enough, I darn sure do not want UNC doing what the SEC does daily and rest assured we have not been doing those things. Yeah, UNC like EVERY other big time program has easy classes that athletes gravitate to, sorry Bo but I gurantee ya your whisky school has them to, as do the dukies. Geez, most of the posters here took easy classes themselves that helped them get their degrees.
Giles may be one and done...but he is a 6'10" athletic scorer that can run, post, defend and rebound which us exactly the type player we need.
The quotes above are exactly why I am worried about the state of UNC Basketball.
The ones that you claim "wouldn't mind having a coach like Cal"? They're the ones that are tired of getting beat by guys like Cal. Both on the court (wins) and off the court (recruiting). The others on the other side? They seem to think we can do no wrong and that we are absolutely fine with what we are doing. Which is where I draw the line
People here love to talk bad about Cal and OADs, but the fact of the matter is that Cal is using the broken system, or "watered down" system you all keep talking about, to his advantage. And it just pisses everyone off that he's doing so.
We don't have to become a OAD factory, or form connections with guys like WWW to compete with UK or Dook or whomever, but what we are doing obviously ain't working. And I'm down right sick and tired of people here complaining about Cal to make themselves feel better about our lack of success these past 6 or so years.
I truly cannot fathom why so many here, and yes so many here, can point fingers and talk bad about another coach's tactics in our current situation. We have no right to go and talk about another school's schemes or whatever you want to call it. For Christ's sake, we have the most corrupt organization in College Sports standing over our shoulder just waiting to pass judgement on us, and some of you STILL want to grumble and moan about Cal!
The fact of the matter is that Cal has found an exploit and some of you are upset that he's using it to his advantage.
I admit I want our staff to do whatever it takes to get back and stay back in the forefront of college basketball. Tesms fear Dook...Teams don't fear that North Carolina jersey anymore...that pisses me off.
There are a few kids we've offered but I don't think we realistically have a shot to land (Tatum, Smith Jr., Woods). If I had my pick for the kids I think we have a chance of landing I would go with the following:
Tony Bradley
Harry Giles
Bam
Curt Jones
Braxton Blackwell or VJ King
EDIT: OT but just wanted to add how big of a fan I am of Matt Coleman in 2017.
This post was edited on 4/14 10:02 AM by RobJones__
Tony Bradley
Harry Giles
Bam
Curt Jones
Braxton Blackwell or VJ King
EDIT: OT but just wanted to add how big of a fan I am of Matt Coleman in 2017.
This post was edited on 4/14 10:02 AM by RobJones__
Also a HUGE Matt Coleman fan as he goes to my alma mater and I went to high school with his father Cliff! The kids loves Carolina, but we have not offered yet. Hopefully we will soon, as UVA and all the people in this area associated with UVA are hard doing the hard press to get this kid. He might also potentially finish up his career at Oak Hill, however one thing that might keep him at Maury is that he might want to play with his little brother who is evidently also going to be a STUD!!
Your words, not mine. IMO, preseason rankings mean nothing. But I do think we have just as much of a chance to compete next year as anyone. So long as we stay healthy and some of the guys on our roster continue to improve.
If Jones and Winslow leave with Okafor, I think we'll be the favorites in the ACC.
What's a waste? In today's college basketball landscape, he's only going to be there for 9 months. He probably just wanted to be comfortable close to home. And he can look like the man, get drafted highly and never have anything to do with Cal ever again. Such investment.
I love college sports.
Roy just reached out to tevin Mack!!
This post was edited on 4/15 1:20 PM by Bur-Heel
http://northcarolina.247sports.com/Bolt/UNC-reache
This post was edited on 4/15 1:20 PM by Bur-Heel
http://northcarolina.247sports.com/Bolt/UNC-reache
Not sure I go that far. Just not sure I saw much in his mixtape which is usually an assortment of best highlights.
He is a top 40 recruit. So, not even sure why someone would say he isn't unc talent from a recruiting rank stand point.
I just don't like what I see in his mixtape.
Maybe I spoiled myself with too many Lebron / Vince Carter / Melo mixtapes. = )
I just don't like what I see in his mixtape.
Maybe I spoiled myself with too many Lebron / Vince Carter / Melo mixtapes. = )
Mike, respectfully, it's usually not Roy's fault when kids light us up. I think we all agree that kids seem to fall out of the sky and have career nights against us from time to time. Doesn't mean they can do it on a consistent basis.
I speak from seeing this kid play. Granted, it was only once but I came away not very impressed. Is he a good player? Yes. Will he be a solid D1 player for somebody? Yes. But I don't think he's at the talent level where he will make an impact at UNC during his 4 years that would better our program. That's less a knock on him, and more a testament to our program. I simply don't think we can continue to waste scholarships on kids who don't add value to our team. This kid can not score off the dribble against ACC level/national level competition and doesn't have the speed in the open floor to create his own shot or get run outs which are a staple of our scheme. Look at his offers. There's a reason that no big time programs (top 5-10 programs) were after this kid and he ended up at VCU over going to an underperforming ACC or SEC school like Clemson or South Carolina.
This post was edited on 4/16 3:36 PM by GoNtheDistance
I speak from seeing this kid play. Granted, it was only once but I came away not very impressed. Is he a good player? Yes. Will he be a solid D1 player for somebody? Yes. But I don't think he's at the talent level where he will make an impact at UNC during his 4 years that would better our program. That's less a knock on him, and more a testament to our program. I simply don't think we can continue to waste scholarships on kids who don't add value to our team. This kid can not score off the dribble against ACC level/national level competition and doesn't have the speed in the open floor to create his own shot or get run outs which are a staple of our scheme. Look at his offers. There's a reason that no big time programs (top 5-10 programs) were after this kid and he ended up at VCU over going to an underperforming ACC or SEC school like Clemson or South Carolina.
This post was edited on 4/16 3:36 PM by GoNtheDistance
three of the top eight prospects in 2016 are from North Carolina inour heyday we would get at least two of those guys get it done Roy
I agree I would rather go for Williams, Ingram, Brown... and if we don't get them to just save the schollys for next year.
One guy I want y'all to think about................................................ Hubert Davis.
What school has a better history of getting from point a to point b than Carolina basketball? When we start missing the 5 star talent from our own back yard that tells me a lot. Hope Hubert can help but we'll see.
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