Been rumored for a long time, kid is a special talent I can see him being another 1 and done for them.
No surprise Tatum is going to Duke
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I give up .... been trying to stay ahead of those guys but until K is gone they are just in the better position... Playing for second fiddle sux
Space, basketball is a game of runs and unfortunately Duke has the momentum in recruiting right now. Unfortunately until the NCAA comes down with their decision, this will continue. but make no mistake, after the ruling, Roy and UNC will recover and the good times will roll once again. It was not long ago that Roy landed Harrison Barnes over Coack K, Brandon Wright over coach K, ect... Have faith
What's unfortunate is this is becoming more of a common theme among us. It's becoming more of "wait until next year" and "if we had X or Y" rather than what's happening now.
Serious question here. If unc could pull top 10 recruits like Duke has recently (OAD's), would you be ok calling unc "UK East"? Second serious question....Has there been a Duke OAD (within the last 5 years) that unc did not offer a scholarship to? I say 5 years, because thats pretty much been the talk of all this OAD finger pointing. I only ask because it seems to me y'all would love to have these players as well.
Not talking trash here. Its a serious question that I'd like to hear your viewpoints.
Jus' curious here, how do you know it won't continue after the Rat has left . . ?
Do you think for a minute that they'll insert a 'doherty' at HC after he leaves . . . ?
Calling dook "the UK of the east" is a compliment right now..so quit being so defensive and enjoy the ride you guys are on!!
It will not continue at that level , they will still be good but not top 5 every year like now... K has built a rep that is unstoppable right now and gets the breaks and the calls on the court, a New coach will not be grandfathered in with that stuff..
Wasn't being defensive. Just wanted to know a few viewpoints on that "name". You answered it and I appreciate it.
I'm confused. We had a top 5 class just last year, so how have we've been saying "wait until next year"?. Hell just because Tatum chose Duke doesn't mean we are out of th running for an elite class in 2016. Again, have faith.
Trash Talking??? Well, in 2012 UNC would have gotten a real chance at the NCAA Title if Kendall would not have gotten body slammed in the Tourney. Regardless, Harrison Barnes played on that team. Dook finished a Distant Second to UNC when competing for Barnes services! Remember Tyler Zeller? How about John Henson? UNC OWNED the recruiting territory just three short season ago. The smear campaign locally is working, at present (all, imo). However, Roy Williams is still at the helm. UNC will be just fine. Sorry but your post is inflammatory as far as I am concerned. Then again, that is just me. UNC will again own Duke. Wait a bit and all this will come back to Chapel Hill...
look anyone with half a brain knows that dook is on a serious roll and has adopted the OAD role a la KY. make NO mistake that Vader ALSO has SELFISHLY and true to HIS character( or lack of it) NOT given up the very high profile USA head coaching duties.
He COULD have and SHOULD have done that two years ago, but when he realized how it was HELPING his recruiting,
He refused to give that advantage up, even AFTER two Olympic victories. It is NO coincidence he has signed all these OAD players since then and will continue to do so. He LOVES to deal from a stacked deck ,whether it is scheduling, the "clock issues" at HIS or his " true non con road game" fraud that goes back some thirty years.
Never mind about the now SIX year cover up of the Lance Thomas $70k diamond scam .... a TRUE bit of corruption that still goes uninvestigated.
He is a fraud and always will be to me for these and many other reasons.
Dookies who think that after this creep retires that dook will still be on top need to get a MAJOR head checkup........ the fall from their dizzying heights will be epic and I cannot wait to revel in THEIR misery, just as they have had a PARTY on ours for the last five years
F em all
He COULD have and SHOULD have done that two years ago, but when he realized how it was HELPING his recruiting,
He refused to give that advantage up, even AFTER two Olympic victories. It is NO coincidence he has signed all these OAD players since then and will continue to do so. He LOVES to deal from a stacked deck ,whether it is scheduling, the "clock issues" at HIS or his " true non con road game" fraud that goes back some thirty years.
Never mind about the now SIX year cover up of the Lance Thomas $70k diamond scam .... a TRUE bit of corruption that still goes uninvestigated.
He is a fraud and always will be to me for these and many other reasons.
Dookies who think that after this creep retires that dook will still be on top need to get a MAJOR head checkup........ the fall from their dizzying heights will be epic and I cannot wait to revel in THEIR misery, just as they have had a PARTY on ours for the last five years
F em all
+ 1000
Thanks for saying what we're all thinking Key!
And if anyone thinks you have anger issues they can shove their $70k bling where the sun don't shine!
Ooops! Thanks for the pick-up.
That's actually how I felt about Ingram - always thought there'd be a log-jam if he'd been a Heel.
Tatum, that is a miss, but it never seemed he was interested in the finer shade of Blue.
Anyway, if Theo comes on I think Roy might be good at the #3 if Justin moves on. Biggest worry is depth at the 230 pound+ positions.
It seems you're a little upset for some reason. I say that because you've seemed to have brought up 3 players who stayed multiple years when my original question was about OAD's. As far as my post being inflammatory...I'm sure anything I said was going to come across as inflammatory to certain people. Not my intention. Oh well. Thanks for your response nonetheless.
Tyler4pres08 said: ↑
Serious question here. If unc could pull top 10 recruits like Duke has recently (OAD's), would you be ok calling unc "UK East"? Second serious question....Has there been a Duke OAD (within the last 5 years) that unc did not offer a scholarship to? I say 5 years, because thats pretty much been the talk of all this OAD finger pointing. I only ask because it seems to me y'all would love to have these players as well.
^ Trash Talking ...
Not necessarily "wait until next year", but more on the lines of "what if". In 2012 it was "if Marshall/Henson had been healthy". In 2013 it was "if Barnes/Henson/Marshall had stayed". In 2014 it was "If PJ had been eligible". I believe 2015 was about Paige and his foot. If this and If that.
It's not about having faith as much as it is our situation right now. Of the 5 * players in North Carolina alone, many of those on this board with their sources have said we're not in good shape with any of them. I'm sure Roy can pull something together, But seeing that some on this board were predicting classes of Giles, Smith, and Bam, I'd say that's a step down from what we're looking at now. Especially with you-know-who breathing down our neck.
I love the :"anger issues" tactic. Always happens when someone actually tells the TRUTH about a topic. The dookies are and have been in a cult like atmosphere for many many years, blinded to the reality that their lord and master aint the man they all think he is
No, I got my years wrong, was corrected and then corrected myself.
I get it, you're a bit trigger happy 'cause a guy who only visited one school decided to commit to that school and not the one you pull for. Still no need to pick on every post without reading the thread.
Tatum is exponentially a better prospect than Ingram. I really didn't care about Ingram that much. K and duke "won that battle" but to me, if Ingram really considers himself a OAD, that could have been a problem with our current roster. But Tatum is legit OAD talent. He's a more athletic Jabari Parker. He's not as complete as Jabari was coming out of high school but he has a higher upside. And being that he's 2016, this is a big miss for us. But as was already stated, we knew we weren't getting Tatum for some time now so it's not like it's a big shock.
Our class can still be anywhere from super to lackluster. If we get Giles and/or Smith and/or Bam, missing on Tatum will mean nothing. If we end up with a bunch of 2nd tier guys, his commitment to duke will sting a little more.
Our class can still be anywhere from super to lackluster. If we get Giles and/or Smith and/or Bam, missing on Tatum will mean nothing. If we end up with a bunch of 2nd tier guys, his commitment to duke will sting a little more.
When K leaves what happens to dook will be very similar to what happened to UCLA when Wooden left.
Who cares what year he is. He'd probably be the #1 in 2015..and you wouldn't want that kid to come to Chapel Hill because of made up chemistry issues?
Most here would be happy to pull in the Okafors, Parkers and Tatums. Me?,...meh. Look, I love top drawer talent as much as the next guy. But as I get older and winning championships becomes less important to me than the fun and entertainment that college sports provides to me and my family, I'm not automatically sold on players that are sure fire OADs. There's just something really neat about watching a player and a team build and grow. Many people just focus on the end result and I used to be that way when I was younger and winning everything meant so much just so I could thump my chest with fans of rival schools about how much better we are than them. But now, I do a lot less of using other programs as a measuring stick. If UK wins 100 titles and we're still stuck on 5, then so be it. But if I am enjoying the seasons and the teams are continuing to give me and my family fun memories and whatnot, then I'm ok with that.
I'm certainly one of those that often harkens back to the age of basketball when the good players left after 3 years - not one. So I realize my mentality doesn't match up all that well with today's game. But I won't forsake what I've always enjoyed just to win a championship with players who's games I never really got to know. A OAD player on a roster with 12 program guys is awesome. Multiple OAD players annually just doesn't do it for me.
People seem very quick to jump on what wins. Not what won 3-4 years ago...but right now. I get it. If your dream is to play in the NBA and you are a first rd lock after one year I don't blame you leaving. If you are the top pick and you come back....good for you. UK has been a top ranked team by getting top guys and replacing them each year....nice shiny title. Issue is in a game where top D team with minor scoring issues made of a most all freshmen or sophomores plays another top D team with 7 guys who can score...it's close and you can't win them all. I love Duke and love how the recruiting has gone and understanding how hard it is to win it all....yeah keep going. HOWEVER people seem to forget the last team to win back to back....one 5 star guy and tons of guys from 26-65. All experienced playing together. UNC next year starts everyone from a sweet 16 team last year. Issues? Sure. FT and outside shooting but those can be fixed and aren't so big as lack of depth or lack of experience. Pick your poison how you want to go.....from UK to Duke to UNC.
Honestly think after Okafor Jones winning it you will see many more package deals. Giles Tatum? It's the "winning thing" Does it keep working and if so who can adjust to get those guys....
I think the 1-and-done rule for prospective NBA players is the biggest joke in all of sports right now. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this... but I think one of the main intentions of this rule was to prevent as many young "busts" from coming into the league from high school, like Kwame Brown, etc. One thing I also hear is that the NBA likes this rule because it gives them an "extra year" to scout players. I think it's completely unfair to the kids, and it's not even the best route for the NBA to scout its prospective players.
They should be allowed to go pro out of HS if they want to try it, or stay at least 2 years in college if they go that route. Slight caveat to the baseball rule. Certain players have no business playing college ball, period. Some are actually that good. I realize they have the Jennings and Mudiay option, but it's just ridiculous that they're forced to a different country in order to make money out of HS if that's what they want to try.
It also should make it easier, not harder, for NBA scouts in many cases. There's never going to be a perfect system where there's no busts and/or dumb choices. Players are in different situations financially, so some will shoot for the moon out of HS and some GMs will be smart and/or dumb enough to take them. But in most cases if a guy is special, you can tell. That term is subjective, but there's a tipping point in every class where you go from a guy who's potentially special to a guy who's "really good."
Those really good prospects are ones that could end up being fine if they go into the right situation in the NBA, but they could also almost just as easily get lost in the shuffle and drop out of the league. I think this rule has facilitated too many just "really good" players being OAD, when many of them would be better off long-term staying multiple years. I think this is one of the main reasons why college hoops has gotten worse. Some may disagree, but I think it'd be a net gain for college hoops if they miss out on about 3-5 special guys on average, while keeping another 10 or so "very good" players for multiple years. I really don't think there would be as many HS jumps and Mudiays as most people think.
It's become a self-fulfilling thing. It's true that many of these freshmen actually are some of the best "prospects," but that's only because it's been nearly a decade now (since '07) that an average of close to 10 freshmen have left every year. The guys who should actually be the best prospects in college to come into the league... have already left! From '07-'14, there were 67 OAD. From '99-'06, there were 46 HS jumps or college OADs. From '91-'98, there were only 14 HS jumps or college 1-and-dones. In '91 and '92, there wasn't a single HS player or college freshman drafted. I looked up those numbers before this year's draft, but there were 13 OADs this year. There was definitely a spike in players jumping from '99-'06 vs. the previous 8 years, but this trend hasn't slowed down.
I think that's astounding, because players haven't gotten like inherently better at basketball since the early-mid 90s. It ain't like it's the '50s vs. now. I feel like those numbers suggest that there's somehow a new breed of player and more pro-ready guys, when there's really not. I think it's likely that a good handful-to-several of the freshmen taken this year will end up being fools gold relative to what some may be expecting. NBA teams could get the special players one year earlier (better for them, little worse for college hoops), and they'd get an extra year to scout the "very good" players that could be legit or could be fools gold (better for them, much better for college hoops). The very good players getting processed out of the league doesn't hurt the NBA nearly as much as it hurts college IMO
They should be allowed to go pro out of HS if they want to try it, or stay at least 2 years in college if they go that route. Slight caveat to the baseball rule. Certain players have no business playing college ball, period. Some are actually that good. I realize they have the Jennings and Mudiay option, but it's just ridiculous that they're forced to a different country in order to make money out of HS if that's what they want to try.
It also should make it easier, not harder, for NBA scouts in many cases. There's never going to be a perfect system where there's no busts and/or dumb choices. Players are in different situations financially, so some will shoot for the moon out of HS and some GMs will be smart and/or dumb enough to take them. But in most cases if a guy is special, you can tell. That term is subjective, but there's a tipping point in every class where you go from a guy who's potentially special to a guy who's "really good."
Those really good prospects are ones that could end up being fine if they go into the right situation in the NBA, but they could also almost just as easily get lost in the shuffle and drop out of the league. I think this rule has facilitated too many just "really good" players being OAD, when many of them would be better off long-term staying multiple years. I think this is one of the main reasons why college hoops has gotten worse. Some may disagree, but I think it'd be a net gain for college hoops if they miss out on about 3-5 special guys on average, while keeping another 10 or so "very good" players for multiple years. I really don't think there would be as many HS jumps and Mudiays as most people think.
It's become a self-fulfilling thing. It's true that many of these freshmen actually are some of the best "prospects," but that's only because it's been nearly a decade now (since '07) that an average of close to 10 freshmen have left every year. The guys who should actually be the best prospects in college to come into the league... have already left! From '07-'14, there were 67 OAD. From '99-'06, there were 46 HS jumps or college OADs. From '91-'98, there were only 14 HS jumps or college 1-and-dones. In '91 and '92, there wasn't a single HS player or college freshman drafted. I looked up those numbers before this year's draft, but there were 13 OADs this year. There was definitely a spike in players jumping from '99-'06 vs. the previous 8 years, but this trend hasn't slowed down.
I think that's astounding, because players haven't gotten like inherently better at basketball since the early-mid 90s. It ain't like it's the '50s vs. now. I feel like those numbers suggest that there's somehow a new breed of player and more pro-ready guys, when there's really not. I think it's likely that a good handful-to-several of the freshmen taken this year will end up being fools gold relative to what some may be expecting. NBA teams could get the special players one year earlier (better for them, little worse for college hoops), and they'd get an extra year to scout the "very good" players that could be legit or could be fools gold (better for them, much better for college hoops). The very good players getting processed out of the league doesn't hurt the NBA nearly as much as it hurts college IMO
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