OK, we still got over a week til the game, you believe them both or either or neither?
This post was edited on 1/23 7:30 AM by mikeirbyusa
This post was edited on 1/23 7:30 AM by mikeirbyusa
POLL: DO YOU BELIEVE BILL & TOM?
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I think the Patriots equipment manager knows exactly how Brady wants the ball and set it up that way. I doubt if Brady explicitly told the manager to do it for this particular game, as it has probably been going on for a long time.
Something along the lines of many years ago, Brady told the manager to make them as light as he could. He then left it up to the manager to determine what he could do.
Something along the lines of many years ago, Brady told the manager to make them as light as he could. He then left it up to the manager to determine what he could do.
Pffft. This will is a blip on the radar. Of course rival fans will cling onto this for years. But for the general public, this will be long forgotten. And even for football historians, this won't matter. Brady and Belichick will be revered with the likes of Montana and Walsh for years to come.
Do people ever talk about how George Brett was thrown out of a game for too much pine tar on his bat? No. No one would even remember that happening if not for Brett's awesome meltdown.
I sympathize with the Patriot's plight as a Carolina fan. Regarding the video taping of signals- a memo went out to the entire NFL earlier that year telling everyone to knock it off- it was common practice. And with this ball thing- meh- who cares?
What I want to know, which I haven't read, is that how much under weight were the balls? And did anyone weigh the Colts balls? And have weight tests been performed in all previous games? Also, how much does weather play a factor? Were the footballs originally weighed in a 72 degree room, then left outside? PSI would obviously go down in this situation.
My opinion is that the stupid media has once again blown something out of proportion- kind of like easy classes for athletes.
What I want to know, which I haven't read, is that how much under weight were the balls? And did anyone weigh the Colts balls? And have weight tests been performed in all previous games? Also, how much does weather play a factor? Were the footballs originally weighed in a 72 degree room, then left outside? PSI would obviously go down in this situation.
My opinion is that the stupid media has once again blown something out of proportion- kind of like easy classes for athletes.
Yup, not a big deal whatsoever. Who. Gives. A. Crap? The footballs were deflated a little......OH THE HORROR!!!11!
The NFL is so annoying the past couple years. Whether it's the brouhaha over Marshawn Lynch not wanting to do pressers, the Saints bounty thing, the drama over replacement referees, the never-ending controversies over calls at important points in games.........it's all just one big effing soap opera these days.
I really do think the bubble is going to burst soon on the NFL. I'll say it again, the NFL better consider itself DAMN lucky that fantasy football was invented. Without FF, NFL ratings would be 30-40% less -- I guarantee it.
Anyway back to the deflate thing. Why the hell is this a big deal in football but not in baseball? Pitchers and catchers doctor baseballs every game. In baseball it's seen as "part of the game" so why isn't it in football? The whole thing is just dumb and feels like contrived controversy to keep the NFL in the spotlight on the off-week between playoff rounds. The NFL is more of a media wh*re than the Kardashians.
All good points.
In regards to the weight, supposedly, the balls weighed 2 lbs less than the required 12.5-13.5 range. So I'm guessing the balls were underinflated to about 10.5 lbs psi. And I too have thought about how weather would impact the air pressure. Not sure it would effect it to the tune of 2 lbs though.
Another point that's not really being discussed is that the Patriots only played with the underinflated balls for one half of football. The balls were changed out for the second half. The second half is when the Pats did most of the ass kicking. Did the lead they of in the first half using the underinflated balls impact how the Colts played the rest of the way? Maybe. But that's pretty weak.
The Colts aren't even making a big deal out of this. Dwayne Allen was quoted as saying "they could have used soap for balls and still beaten us."
Like you 71-00, to me this is much more of "gamesmanship" than it is "cheating".
A lot of good stuff here too.
Agreed. The controversies about calls and noncalls are nauseating. And it's the very reason that I was against reply when it started 25-30 years ago. And then I was vehemently against it the new instant replay rules instituted in the late 90s that allowed for "challenges". What it did was kill the "spirit of the game". It ruined what sports were originally supposed to be about. The focus became the outcome rather than the event itself. It also gave people more to complain about. Go back in time 40 years and fans were crazy, just like today. Fans yelled at the refs. But they accepted that the refs were the authority of the game. Fans would acknowledge when they thought they were "robbed". But it was what it was - part of the game. Human error is a crucial element to sports IMO.
I agree that the NFL could be in a much more uncomfortable spot had FF not taken off like it did. But it would still be king. And I agree that the future of the NFL is very uncertain. I've said as fas back as a year or so ago, we may see the end of the NFL as we know it in the next 10-15 years. Its demise will largely be attributed to the head trauma stuff and the trickle down effect of that. Pop Warner is dying. Youth flag football leagues are popping up everywhere (my local YMCA will facilitate one in the spring). Parents are not comfortable with their kids playing football. They are pushing them towards other sports. And if no kids are playing, who's going to be playing in the NFL in 15 years?
Yeah, I've made the baseball comparison many times in this debate. I think it's the most appropriate comparison one can make. Baseball traditionalists love the little games within the games. Stealing signs (something else the Pats are chastised for) in baseball has been common practice since the game began. But a football team does it and it's the biggest atrocity since 9/11. Pine tar on a baseball? That's fine. Deflate a football and the NFL network is almost having to open a second channel just to discuss Deflate gate in its entirety. It's absurd.
couple things that make this more interesting to me than most of you
This is the latest in a series of events that depict the pats as thumbing their nose at nfl regs. Take it fwiw.
At this level of comp like with the olympics a tenth of a sec here or two inches there can literally change the outcome of a game and in turn a seaso. How many of u as fans have a story about your team having a heartbreaking loss due to the most minute of details? And that loss in turn had a neg impact on the season. So my concern is not that the pats beat the colts cause of it, but that this PLUS however many other things the pats and other teams may be doing illegally can by cumulative effect alter a play and a game and even a season. At this level, all rules should be enforced no matter how ridiculous they may seem. All rules are there cause without them someone at sometime figured out how to gain an advantage without it.
But as to the op brady was def lying.
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This is the latest in a series of events that depict the pats as thumbing their nose at nfl regs. Take it fwiw.
At this level of comp like with the olympics a tenth of a sec here or two inches there can literally change the outcome of a game and in turn a seaso. How many of u as fans have a story about your team having a heartbreaking loss due to the most minute of details? And that loss in turn had a neg impact on the season. So my concern is not that the pats beat the colts cause of it, but that this PLUS however many other things the pats and other teams may be doing illegally can by cumulative effect alter a play and a game and even a season. At this level, all rules should be enforced no matter how ridiculous they may seem. All rules are there cause without them someone at sometime figured out how to gain an advantage without it.
But as to the op brady was def lying.
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Do you have a problem with baseball pitchers using pine tar? And if so, what do you think should be done about it?
Do you have a problem with hockey players that have too much curve to their stick? If so, what do you think should be done about it?
Every sport has a set of rules that can be manipulated. How do you feel when a player flops in basektball, a pivotal call is made incorrectly and the team that flops gets the win potentially keeping another team out of the NCAA championship? Or also in football, when a lineman holds and it's not called...resulting in a touchdown and possibly eliminating a team from postseason play? No, the last two examples aren't just like using a deflated ball, but it just goes to show that the balance hangs. And there's no way to eliminate all the wrongs in sports. Instead, we as fans or as a civilized society, should understand that these things are going to happen and refuse to treat sports like life and death.
I know it sounds like I'm just being a Tom Brady apologist and I am to some degree. But seriously folks, get a grip. The Colts are over it. They recognize how trivial this is in the grand scheme and how this played a miniscule role in their getting their heads kicked in. If they can move on then I think the rest of us should be able to.
Because of the need to provide 24/7 content on umpteen different platforms. You know how I feel about that....
"NFL regs." Ok, let's talk about the NFL, the league PTB and how it operates. This is a league (the commissioner and the 32 owners he works for) that is structured in such a way that it:
- pays its (non-QB) players peanuts (relatively) while the owners and league are making billions, hand over fist. What's more, the league has the audacity to make 99% of these contracts null and void if the player gets injured and can't play anymore (in the sport that's the most violent and most prone to injuries I might add)
- allows, and indirectly encourages, players to steroid their balls off so they can be bigger, faster, stronger. They'll suspend you for effing Riddlin or Adderall, but they don't give a crap if you're on HGH. Why do you think NFL injuries are so rampant? It's not just the violence of the game.....the dudes are roided and doped up. Notice how college football injuries, generally, are much less severe than NFL ones? I don't think that's a coincidence.
- fails to protect its image by properly disciplining players/coaches/owners who get arrested for actual LEGAL crimes (not deflating balls or offering ''bounties''). If you kill someone while driving drunk, that's fine, 4 game suspension, ho hum, you're back by week 4 and there's no media coverage or outburst. If you take a little air out of the football or offer your players extra incentives to make football plays....OH BOY!! YOU'RE IN TROUBLE NOW!!11!! Yeah, I'd much rather have a league full of players/coaches trying to gain competitive advantage during the game (not talking about steroids) than a league full of felons and criminals. But hey that's just me.
- allows the integrity of its games to be completely jeopardized because the owners are too cheap to give the refs a raise (whether they deserve it or not, it is beyond ridiculous that they couldn't work something out before the first week of the season). They say they care about the integrity of the game during Deflate Gate, yet they can't even ensure that the best refs are working the first week of the season that year.
Soooooooo......yeah, what a well-run league!! Forgive me for not getting very upset if the Pats, as you say, "thumb their nose" at the NFL and its regulations. JMO
I actually hate all Boston teams so....nope.Originally posted by mikeirbyusa:
I see we have at least TWO Pats fans.
However, I don't let my dislike of a team cloud my judgement on issues and "scandals." That's a big problem with this Deflate Gate BS. People are letting their hatred for the Patriots steer their beliefs and their outrage. We saw the same with the Dez Bryant catch/no catch. People that hate the Cowboys....thought it wasn't a catch.
Now where have we seem a situation where, because of lots of hatred for a "team," the media and the haters have blown all the issues -- most of them trivial or at least pretty widespread throughout the "league" -- grossly out of proportion and created a bigger story than is actually present??????
Hang on....it's on the tip of my tongue...
This post was edited on 1/23 12:21 PM by TarHeelNation11
Do you have a problem with baseball pitchers using pine tar? And if so, what do you think should be done about it?
Do you have a problem with hockey players that have too much curve to their stick? If so, what do you think should be done about it?
Every sport has a set of rules that can be manipulated. How do you feel when a player flops in basektball, a pivotal call is made incorrectly and the team that flops gets the win potentially keeping another team out of the NCAA championship? Or also in football, when a lineman holds and it's not called...resulting in a touchdown and possibly eliminating a team from postseason play? No, the last two examples aren't just like using a deflated ball, but it just goes to show that the balance hangs. And there's no way to eliminate all the wrongs in sports. Instead, we as fans or as a civilized society, should understand that these things are going to happen and refuse to treat sports like life and death.
I know it sounds like I'm just being a Tom Brady apologist and I am to some degree. But seriously folks, get a grip. The Colts are over it. They recognize how trivial this is in the grand scheme and how this played a miniscule role in their getting their heads kicked in. If they can move on then I think the rest of us should be able to.
1/23 11:32 AM | IP: Logged
I dont think u understand my point. They didnt beat the colts because of deflating the ball. My concern is that IF they OR ANYONE ELSE is breaking numerous of these type of rules the CUMULATIVE effect MAY enable them to win a game they shouldnt. Thats all. If it didnt give a team an advantage IT WOULDNT BE A RULE. Whether or not fans ignorant of the game at this level think its stupid or sillydoesnt mean jack. The rule had to be put in cause someone realized they could get an unfair advantage by altering the pressure. Harder balls travel further when kicked. You telling me that if your hated rival was pumping the balls up before attempting field goals u would dismiss it? BULLSHIT.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Do you have a problem with hockey players that have too much curve to their stick? If so, what do you think should be done about it?
Every sport has a set of rules that can be manipulated. How do you feel when a player flops in basektball, a pivotal call is made incorrectly and the team that flops gets the win potentially keeping another team out of the NCAA championship? Or also in football, when a lineman holds and it's not called...resulting in a touchdown and possibly eliminating a team from postseason play? No, the last two examples aren't just like using a deflated ball, but it just goes to show that the balance hangs. And there's no way to eliminate all the wrongs in sports. Instead, we as fans or as a civilized society, should understand that these things are going to happen and refuse to treat sports like life and death.
I know it sounds like I'm just being a Tom Brady apologist and I am to some degree. But seriously folks, get a grip. The Colts are over it. They recognize how trivial this is in the grand scheme and how this played a miniscule role in their getting their heads kicked in. If they can move on then I think the rest of us should be able to.
1/23 11:32 AM | IP: Logged
I dont think u understand my point. They didnt beat the colts because of deflating the ball. My concern is that IF they OR ANYONE ELSE is breaking numerous of these type of rules the CUMULATIVE effect MAY enable them to win a game they shouldnt. Thats all. If it didnt give a team an advantage IT WOULDNT BE A RULE. Whether or not fans ignorant of the game at this level think its stupid or sillydoesnt mean jack. The rule had to be put in cause someone realized they could get an unfair advantage by altering the pressure. Harder balls travel further when kicked. You telling me that if your hated rival was pumping the balls up before attempting field goals u would dismiss it? BULLSHIT.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
"NFL regs." Ok, let's talk about the NFL, the league PTB and how it operates. This is a league (the commissioner and the 32 owners he works for) that is structured in such a way that it:....
Lol these people in charge have turned the nfl into the top sport. Tv ratings and revenue are powering this sport to the tune of billions of dollars. For a player or team to dismiss or bend rules they dont like is biting the hand that feeds u. These rules are all subject to the cba that the players voted on. I have no idea if the pats did anything wrong but if they did they should be punished.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Lol these people in charge have turned the nfl into the top sport. Tv ratings and revenue are powering this sport to the tune of billions of dollars. For a player or team to dismiss or bend rules they dont like is biting the hand that feeds u. These rules are all subject to the cba that the players voted on. I have no idea if the pats did anything wrong but if they did they should be punished.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
The whole deflation thing is silly - I truly think they're deliberately making more out of it because they'd rather have that be the controversy du jour than head injuries or player arrests. Although I do wonder what the reasoning is behind not using the same set of balls for both teams, presumably checked and inspected by a league rep or ref.
P.S. Bryant didn't control the ball through contact with the ground. Not a catch.
P.S. Bryant didn't control the ball through contact with the ground. Not a catch.
i cared to respond, but i don't care if they lied or told the truth.
they'll be focused now for sure
they'll be focused now for sure
"I didn't alter the ball in any way," Brady said. "I have a process I go
through before every game where I go in and pick the balls - the
footballs that I want to use for the game. Our equipment guys do a great
job of breaking the balls in. They have a process that they go through.
When I pick those footballs out, at that point, to me, they're perfect.
I don't want anyone touching the balls after that, I don't want anyone
rubbing them, putting any air in, taking any air out, to me those balls
are perfect and that's what I expect when I'm on the field."
Soooooooooooooooo........................................................
Why the devil does the QB get to pick-chose what balls he wants to use? Why isn't that an NFL thing? Here is the ball, win with it or lose with it it is the SAME FOR BOTH TEAMS!
Both teams use the same ball in the NBA, why not the NFL?
through before every game where I go in and pick the balls - the
footballs that I want to use for the game. Our equipment guys do a great
job of breaking the balls in. They have a process that they go through.
When I pick those footballs out, at that point, to me, they're perfect.
I don't want anyone touching the balls after that, I don't want anyone
rubbing them, putting any air in, taking any air out, to me those balls
are perfect and that's what I expect when I'm on the field."
Soooooooooooooooo........................................................
Why the devil does the QB get to pick-chose what balls he wants to use? Why isn't that an NFL thing? Here is the ball, win with it or lose with it it is the SAME FOR BOTH TEAMS!
Both teams use the same ball in the NBA, why not the NFL?
Obviously, my posts are a little exaggerated (intentionally) because I dislike the Pats. The only legit take from this is, and I'm serious here, the fact that the Patriots have repeatedly cheated. I do think they should be punished in some way, hopefully in a way that cripples the organization for years. Spygate was actually something way more serious and the way it was handled by the league was extremely shady. That was flat out cheating. I agree with the baseball comparisons here. I just hate the Pats.
Tom Brady, during his presser, was lying through his teeth. My intuition tells me so, and my intuition is never wrong. Never.
