Some telling conversations...

[gary-7]

...with 2 AAU coaches that I happened to have coincidentally and separately on the same day.
One was with a good friend of mine (whose son was Brice's AAU teammate) whom I speak with regularly (more on that one later), but the subject of this post was the conversation with a coach I was introduced to by another friend earlier that evening who had just gotten back to ATL from the Peach Jam over in Augusta.
As many of you have prolly heard, the Georgia all-star team beat Jayson Tatum's St. Louis team for the title. The GA team was led by a little 5'9 3* PG (Auburn commit) who has 33 pts and 8 assists, and his co-MVP, big Wendell Carter.

Anyway, the guy I was talking to was legit --- had coached in HS and got involved in AAU to be with his kids ---and had coached some of the GA kids in age groups and their other AAU team. These guys typically won't say much on the record to the media for fear of damaging relationships (and thus I won't mention his name), but as just guys talking shop, and when he found out I was a "Carolina guy", he was pretty damned forthcoming.

- historically, the Carolina staff, while friendly, have maintained a professional distance from AAU coaches, much more so than some, um, other high-profile programs (cough, cough, UK, cough) do. The legit AAU folks understand and respect that because, as he said, let's face it, there are some real sketchy characters in AAU circles who are recruiting violations waiting to happen.

- speaking of which, he volunteered that Carolina is getting absolutely slammed by negative recruiting --- and this is noteworthy --- it's not just what opposing staffs are telling players and parents, they are also actively planting the meme with AAU coaches and "mentors" that UNC will get hammered by the NCAA, to the point where it has become an assumption. And guess where most of that noise is originating from? Yep: dook and State.

- He raved ("Roy needs to get on him hard") about the aforementioned Wendell Carter (who plays at Pace over here). Even though he's a 2017 kid he's already a grown-ass man with an NBA PF body, and dominated older big kids in elite AAU competition. On a related note, he said he loved UNC's freshman class from a year ago --- called Jackson a "scoring machine", Pinson an "athlete" and said Berry was "already the best player on the floor when he was playing 2 years above his age group". As for this crop, said he only saw Williams once ("sweet stroke") and that "Maye will help you guys".

Those are the highlights. I found this conversation especially timely when I later listened to Clint's podcast and here he was alluding to the negative meme out there in AAU circles on Carolina's "issues". Now this conversation fills in the blanks about the source. Roy knows the deal, and it's no accident that he's throwing out more offers than normal to weather this temporary sh** storm. He hasn't forgotten how to recruit --- he just can't "select" anymore, at least for a little while. But as many have said, winning cures a lot, especially this season... and the NCAA stuff will be done and gone. Better times are on the horizon.

 

[ACokeForRoy]

Good post Gary-7. I also listening to Clint's podcast and it was pretty sobering. Although you kind of know what's going on with the negative recruiting by college coaches, its another layer when it comes from AAU coaches who likely are the closest to the recruit and also influence the kids family. Shame that parents can't do there own research if they are truly interested in Carolina for there kid. Seems that the parents are just as lost as the kid. And who knows who's getting paid to sway kids away from Carolina.

 

[Tom79]

thanks gary-7...I hate to hear it but it is what it is until the "cloud" is lifted. Interesting to listen to the podcast.
As mentioned above, Roy and staff need to be on these kids "hard and fast".
What is difficult is the summer circuit is on now and this is what some of the kids are being told. Sad too.
So in this three week period I sure hope staff are loud and clear to our recruits.

 

[BillyL]

Unfortunately, there are things being said about UNC that go much deeper than the NCAA sanctions talk that has been circulating the past 18 months or so. The negative messages being spread by many to the recruits we have targeted are not solely restricted to our NCAA troubles. Some of Roy's coaching habits/preferences/style are being used against him and the recruits are keenly listening to the garbage that is being spewed.
Roy and staff are out to change perceptions, but, its going to take a while.

 

[DSouthr]

Well of course other programs are negative recruiting against us but hate to break this to you folks but those very same programs have always done that against us, this is nothing new. If it were not the AFAM they would be slamming us by telling the kids that they will sit on our bench as Micky D players or that Roy is going to retire any day now. The real shame is that now days they are having kids that play with these recruits also negative recruit against us.

Kinda wish Roy would fight fire with fire at times, K could retire at any time, Ky is a NCAA ban waiting to happen. I know, that is not Roy's way of doing things but I would love to see him get pissed and give them back some of what he as been having to take.

 

[ThunderBox]

guys, let's remember UNC has not been setting the world on fire with big-time recruits long before the recent NCAA cloud. I read earlier this week that the last top 5 recruit Carolina landed was Harrison Barnes. That's a while ago. 'Bigs' just don't seem to be attracted to the Heels. while Jax, Berry, Pinson and all the recent swingmen have been great we simply have not been getting quality big men. Hopefully things will change but until the NCAA announces penalties this will, disappointingly, go on for a while.

 

[Tarheel94]

Sorry but I am not seeing what you are seeing. The Heels have pulled in at least 1 Burger boy since forever.
2014 - Pinson, Berry, Jackson
2013 - Hicks, Meeks
2012 - Paige
2011 - Hairston/McAdoo
2010 - Barnes, Marshall, Bulluck
5 years is not a long time. And, it seems like we are doing fine considering the dark clouds that have been around for almost a decade.

 

[gary-7]

Unfortunately, there are things being said about UNC that go much deeper than the NCAA sanctions talk that has been circulating the past 18 months or so. The negative messages being spread by many to the recruits we have targeted are not solely restricted to our NCAA troubles. Some of Roy's coaching habits/preferences/style are being used against him and the recruits are keenly listening to the garbage that is being spewed.
Roy and staff are out to change perceptions, but, its going to take a while.

Very true, Billy. Other negative stuff has always been thrown out, and Roy has done well nonetheless... unfortunately the overblown NCAA spectre has given the wankers out there their best short-term weapon, especially vis-a-vis kids rising now who fancy themselves potential one-or-two-and-dones. And as Dave said it is even being regurgitated by recruits of opposing schools.
Fortunately the NCAA red herring should be over soon enough, and as for the "sexiness" of the Carolina brand (which, as Clint says, has suffered), a big season could work wonders for that. The team this season should not only be very good, if all goes as it should it will be very fun to watch. A return to some high-octane Roy Williams tempo should up the sexy factor for recruits as well.

 

[DSouthr]

Very true, Billy. Other negative stuff has always been thrown out, and Roy has done well nonetheless... unfortunately the overblown NCAA spectre has given the wankers out there their best short-term weapon, especially vis-a-vis kids rising now who fancy themselves potential one-or-two-and-dones. And as Dave said it is even being regurgitated by recruits of opposing schools.
Fortunately the NCAA red herring should be over soon enough, and as for the "sexiness" of the Carolina brand (which, as Clint says, has suffered), a big season could work wonders for that. The team this season should not only be very good, if all goes as it should it will be very fun to watch. A return to some high-octane Roy Williams tempo should up the sexy factor for recruits as well.

The "sexiness" of the Carolina brand? LOL

While I have said all alaong, yeah the NCAA stuff is a problem, one of the largest issues is the fact that you have not seen UNC in the final 4 in a while.

You don't have to tell me, I know, we have had bad luck and not just due to the AFAM stuff. PJ losing his mind really hurt us the last 2 seasons, JMM not really developing in to the beast of a player he was hyped to be, injury to kendal at the worst time for such an injury was hard. We had Reggie, PJ, JMM, and now Tokoto leave before it was expected. Don't forget the Larry Drew saga, Ed Davis being a pain in the locker room, the Wears twins transferring in the middle of the night and having daddy tell Roy. Look at all the injury we had last season, we started last season with 5 Pgs and at one point we had only 1 heatly enough to practice. We were playing really well but no team can play at this level if they go a month in the season with no practices due to injury. Add that to our losing the Dean of college basketball as well as his right hand man, Roy's cancer scare, Roy losing his best friend.

Man, with or without the NCAA cloud any team would suffer dealing with all of that protected over so many seasons since our last natty. That is just bad luck, thing about bad luck is that at some point it changes and this nonsense wil pass as well.

Sexy teams are teams that win, plain & simple, let us win the natty next season and get back to me on our recruiting fortune.

What really bothers me is the lack of top shelf big men, I mean, UNC is well known as the place that feeds its big men, a program that just really features its bigs so much that you would find it hard to average more points than at most other programs. Duke on the other hand is known for outside shooting, where big men go to be rebounders for their jump shooting guards. That is what Roy really needs to sell, the fact we feed our bigs! Giles, Bam, we feed our bigs, our PGs tend to be lower scorers but guys that rack up the assists, who those assists go to, BIG MEN !

I would LOVE to see Roy turn the negative recruiting in to a positive. How do you do that you ask, well ya knew I was gonna tell ya didn't ya? LOL

"look son, I can understand your concern but doesn't it strike you as strange that members of other coaching staffs claim to know more about our own situation than I do? Now you know, I have explained to you that UNC basketball is going to be fine but lets assume just for a second that I am not telling you the truth about that OK. I tell you UNC basketbal is going to not have any post season bans or recruiting restrictions and if I am wrong and a few months from now we do get a post season ban, lets say that happens. Well then the very first thing that happens is I severely upset you, you would take that clearly as my telling you a lie and you are going to go on social media and burn me down to any and every one in the world that will listen, you would do all you could do to destroy my program and rightfully so if I lied to you, isn't that true. There is no way and I mean NO WAY ANY coach would risk such a thing, because the stakes if I did lie to you are so high you know without me telling you that I have way more to lose by lieing to you than I have with totally honest with you.

Son, I want you to play for UNC, I don't have to sell you on the amazing numbers of players that wore that UNC jersey that went on to great careers in the NBA. The greatest player of all time, Michael Jordan, how amazing is the opportunity to follow in his foot steps? Son, you can become part of the UNC family of players, that is HUGE once you get to the NBA because your UNC brothers, guys that had the very same decision to make that you have right now, they are waiting to help you. You can play for duke, ky or any program but there is a special bond amoung UNC guys in the league, imagine being able to have Michael Jordan on speed dial, imagine spending vacation with James Worthy and his family. You look around just this summer, you look at all the former Tar Heel players that come back here, that grew up else where but they now call Chapel Hill home and you can understand why they do, isn't that true.

Son, you tell me what you are waiting for, other coaches want you to come play for them, son I want you to join the UNC family, what is stronger than family? "

 

[ChapelHeeled]

guys, let's remember UNC has not been setting the world on fire with big-time recruits long before the recent NCAA cloud. I read earlier this week that the last top 5 recruit Carolina landed was Harrison Barnes. That's a while ago. 'Bigs' just don't seem to be attracted to the Heels. while Jax, Berry, Pinson and all the recent swingmen have been great we simply have not been getting quality big men. Hopefully things will change but until the NCAA announces penalties this will, disappointingly, go on for a while.

 

[Ozheelfan]

The "sexiness" of the Carolina brand? LOL

................. Don't forget the Larry Drew saga, Ed Davis being a pain in the locker room, the Wears twins transferring in the middle of the night and having daddy tell Roy...............

"

I believe this was the beginning of the rot. A group of entitled players who pouted when they didn't do enough to earn PT (or did so poorly with PT, they were passed over)

Throw into the mix Rash1t McC#nts and his dad for a pretty mean anti-Roy campaign.


All that said, I agree 1000% that wins will help. If the current group can go on a deep run next March/April then it'll be hard for the BS artists out there to spin their lies.

Also, for the Heels to go on a deep run, several players are going to have to elevate to where we all believe they can be. And recruiting-wise that's what the Heels need - Justin, Marcus, Brice, maybe even Kennedy shaking hands with Adam Silver next June.

Lastly, remember when Roy signed Barnes? It was off the back of a 4yr domination at H.I.S.

Put simply, no matter what talent is playing in the wrong shade of blue, wins in Derm are vital. Recruits need to see puke fans crying like babies on TV, they need to be on a visit and hear the entire barn go silent, they need to see the "WTF happened there" look on the puke coaching staff's faces, they need to feel the embarrassment for the leader of men just like when Psycho T and company were dishing it out.

No coach will be able to talk trash about the program if it's winning, that's what will break the current cycle.

 

[ChapelHeeled]

ThunderBox said: ↑
guys, let's remember UNC has not been setting the world on fire with big-time recruits long before the recent NCAA cloud. I read earlier this week that the last top 5 recruit Carolina landed was Harrison Barnes. That's a while ago. 'Bigs' just don't seem to be attracted to the Heels. while Jax, Berry, Pinson and all the recent swingmen have been great we simply have not been getting quality big men. Hopefully things will change but until the NCAA announces penalties this will, disappointingly, go on for a while.




This insane line of thinking (sorry just imo) is far too often passing as the truth. News Flash: In BOTH 2013 and 2014 UNC Basketball finished in the TOP FIVE Nationally with respect to UNC recruiting High School Studs! In 2013 UNC finished at # 5 Nationally (concenous). Furthermore, in 2014 UNC finished at NUMBER THREE (#3)! How anyone can say that UNC is getting snubbed out by top talent is beyond me. However, lowlifes live everywhere and they continue to attempt to pass this LIE to anyone that will listen. Does this make me a tad bit upset? Ah, that would be affirmative indeed. Will UNC and Coach Williams survive all of these lies from others? I absolutely believe that UNC Basketball will survive AND THRIVE! Good luck to those sorry-azzzed folks in other places that continue to spew their drivel. UNC Basketball will continue to fight the good, hard fight and UNC will be the feared force that it has always been very soon (imo)! Good luck to all of our Tar Heel Warriors...

 

[gary-7]

Lastly, remember when Roy signed Barnes? It was off the back of a 4yr domination at H.I.S.
Put simply, no matter what talent is playing in the wrong shade of blue, wins in Derm are vital. Recruits need to see puke fans crying like babies on TV, they need to be on a visit and hear the entire barn go silent, they need to see the "WTF happened there" look on the puke coaching staff's faces, they need to feel the embarrassment for the leader of men just like when Psycho T and company were dishing it out.
No coach will be able to talk trash about the program if it's winning, that's what will break the current cycle.

Agreed, Oz, wins now vs dook (home AND away) are more vital than ever. Given that we know it's gonna be 5 against 8 any time we play them, Roy can't afford any missteps in those games... and I'm gonna be brutally honest, he let them get away from him this past season, especially the one in H.I.S. where an ill-conceived change down the stretch (one that unfortunately presaged the Wisky game) let them get back into a game that we had essentially won.
That sort of thing just can't happen next season... not now. The distractions should be past, and Roy definitely has the horses. It's now a matter of putting the right horses in the right positions (and make no mistake, there is zero doubt what those are) and unleashing some high-octane Carolina whup-ass.
By all rights the NCAA non-issues should soon be revealed for what they are(n't), and the Carolina brand will be what shows out on the court, not the hogwash invented by our opponents.

 

[ian.shriner]

UNC will be back...but it likely won't happen until the NCAA rules. Until they do no matter how much Roy says basketball won't face penalties he can't guarantee it and so long as other coaches mention it or more importantly reporters or SI or ESPN run stories of "what could happen" the top guys will question. Guys from 20-70 will pick UNC since even if UNC gets a postseason ban for a year, they aren't being opening courted as OAD thus it's not the end of the world and UNCs history speaks for itself. Because of this you see your team is preseason #1 with solid talent across the court tho no true "superstar" 06-07 Florida???? That said guys who are already planning OAD while in my opinion needed to win at a consistent championship level these days(one or two at a time) are going to be scared by the idea at any time postseason ban for the one year they are there... CUSE had their punishment and now that it's past...top 5 class. Nobody from recruits is saying they got banned from the tourney while I was in high school. No....they say I get to bring them back to the top. Once NCAA gives a final verdict Roy should be telling guys "you can be the heros to bring us back to number 1" Duke never dealt with any issues bc there is no way to prove any infraction...Lance Thomas can't be forced to talk to NCAA. Jeweler doesn't have to talk. It's not against the rules to get the loan unless it can be proven its given bc he's a college athlete which nobody can. Recruiting at UNCs level is constantly up and down(by their standards) if you aren't going UK route there will be years(like this one) where lineup is pretty set so you aren't going to get 4-5 5 star guys...not enough time to go around. Then years 2016 where if UNC wins it all or goes deep you could lose Meeks Brice Jackson....even Hicks or Berry could be gone and you have tons of minutes for those elite guys. I give UNC two years at which point BARRING a major punishment UNC has a top 3 class.

 

[dopeshop23]

Been and ACC and Duke fan my whole life, I whole hearted agree with the sentiment of a strong vital Caroline program. Really hope Carolina can get this stuff behind them both athletically and as an institutional. While a rival, always had a lot of respect for the university and its athletic programs. Sounds weird to but say, but I really hope both programs get back to competitive/equal footing. It good for us, its good for you. I just wouldn't be the same if it was otherwise.

 

[shun1]

Been and ACC and Duke fan my whole life, I whole hearted agree with the sentiment of a strong vital Caroline program. Really hope Carolina can get this stuff behind them both athletically and as an institutional. While a rival, always had a lot of respect for the university and its athletic programs. Sounds weird to but say, but I really hope both programs get back to competitive/equal footing. It good for us, its good for you. I just wouldn't be the same if it was otherwise.

God bless you dopeshop23, you are a good fan & person.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Archer2]

...with 2 AAU coaches that I happened to have coincidentally and separately on the same day.

- speaking of which, he volunteered that Carolina is getting absolutely slammed by negative recruiting --- and this is noteworthy --- it's not just what opposing staffs are telling players and parents, they are also actively planting the meme with AAU coaches and "mentors" that UNC will get hammered by the NCAA, to the point where it has become an assumption. And guess where most of that noise is originating from? Yep: dook and State.

Those are the highlights. I found this conversation especially timely when I later listened to Clint's podcast and here he was alluding to the negative meme out there in AAU circles on Carolina's "issues". Now this conversation fills in the blanks about the source. Roy knows the deal, and it's no accident that he's throwing out more offers than normal to weather this temporary sh** storm. He hasn't forgotten how to recruit --- he just can't "select" anymore, at least for a little while. But as many have said, winning cures a lot, especially this season... and the NCAA stuff will be done and gone. Better times are on the horizon.

Doesn't surprise me one little bit. Some sorry excuses for human beings on those two staffs.

I agree that this too shall pass eventually. UNC has always prided itself on doing things the right way. When we stray off the straight path, no one is tougher on us than we are ourselves. I take pride in that. They say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. We will be better for surviving this ordeal.

 

[gary-7]

Doesn't surprise me one little bit. Some sorry excuses for human beings on those two staffs.

I agree.

Yep. Capel is --- shall we say --- notorious in recruiting world...
and Gottfried & Co? Phew!

 

[Ozheelfan]

If I remember right didn't K throw Capel a coaching lifeline after he'd been busted for recruiting violations?

 

[gary-7]

If I remember right didn't K throw Capel a coaching lifeline after he'd been busted for recruiting violations?

well... the previous regime's shenanigans at OU gave him some cover, but his own 'cruitin' and program issues started to surface with, IIRC, an assistant's forced resignation and players' dealings with a shady "financial advisor" and then players abandoning ship. OU went into the sh**er after the Griffin bros left (after we beat them in the NCAAs) and a couple of bad seasons later Capel was shown the door.

 

[ChapelHeeled]

UNC will be back...but it likely won't happen until the NCAA rules. Until they do no matter how much Roy says basketball won't face penalties he can't guarantee it and so long as other coaches mention it or more importantly reporters or SI or ESPN run stories of "what could happen" the top guys will question. Guys from 20-70 will pick UNC since even if UNC gets a postseason ban for a year, they aren't being opening courted as OAD thus it's not the end of the world and UNCs history speaks for itself. Because of this you see your team is preseason #1 with solid talent across the court tho no true "superstar" 06-07 Florida???? That said guys who are already planning OAD while in my opinion needed to win at a consistent championship level these days(one or two at a time) are going to be scared by the idea at any time postseason ban for the one year they are there... CUSE had their punishment and now that it's past...top 5 class. Nobody from recruits is saying they got banned from the tourney while I was in high school. No....they say I get to bring them back to the top. Once NCAA gives a final verdict Roy should be telling guys "you can be the heros to bring us back to number 1" Duke never dealt with any issues bc there is no way to prove any infraction...Lance Thomas can't be forced to talk to NCAA. Jeweler doesn't have to talk. It's not against the rules to get the loan unless it can be proven its given bc he's a college athlete which nobody can. Recruiting at UNCs level is constantly up and down(by their standards) if you aren't going UK route there will be years(like this one) where lineup is pretty set so you aren't going to get 4-5 5 star guys...not enough time to go around. Then years 2016 where if UNC wins it all or goes deep you could lose Meeks Brice Jackson....even Hicks or Berry could be gone and you have tons of minutes for those elite guys. I give UNC two years at which point BARRING a major punishment UNC has a top 3 class.

There are so many things wrong with this post on a deeper level that I am not going to correct them all. Suffice it to say that UNC is a Top Five College Basketball Power as I keyboard this tonight! Therefore, how high of a climb is it for UNC to again become the Number One program in ALL of college basketball?? How many Top 5 players did Butler have when they came within a literal half-inch of beating Duke in 2010? Furthermore, how many Top Five players did Lehigh and/or Mercer have when they BOUNCED DOOK out of the NCAA Tournament in HISTORIC FIRST ROUND DUKE LOSSES?? Tell me again about Dook's most wonderful Top Five talent. Please keep talking because apparently there are several Dukies who do not get the fact that college basketball is a team game! This being true even after HISTORIC NCAA Dook losses to both Lehigh and Mercer. Funny how Kentucky has but ONE NCAA Title since Calisafari took over in 2009. Please remember this fact when speaking of Duke one and done players in the future. Maybe then, you can stay out of UNC basketball business altogether...




** P.S.- The $70,000.00 loan alone was/is illegal in my view. This would indeed be because the average college student could not get such a loan (strong imo and/or fact). Many others share this same legal view of the situation. Nevertheless, Duke is what it is...