Subtraction By Addition? The ACC In 2024-25.

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I haven't been following the conference realignments that closely so please straighten me out if I have this wrong.

As I understand it, we are adding Stanford, Cal and SMU, while still retaining FSU for a few more minutes. Is that right? My googling skills suck but that's what an article from last fall seemed to be saying.

Does that make the ACC better? Worse? More interesting? Less interesting?

Here's the list, in order of today's Pomeroy rankings:

Team	Rank
UNC	10
Duke	11
Wake	26
Clemson	30
SMU	39
Va Tech	51
Pitt	52
Virginia	65
NC State	73
Miami	80
FSU	84
Boston College	88
Syracuse	89
Stanford	92
California	109
Ga Tech	138
Notre Dame	155
Louisville	177

 

[Bubspub88]

So lovely that half the damn conference would be a potential quad 3 or 4 loss in Chapel Hill. I remember when the ACC absolutely owned college basketball.

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

^ and because of that paucity of real contenders, we need to continue to schedule quality
opponents vs cupcakes as some teams (ahem) do.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Apparently next year's and future ACC tournaments will only include the top 15 teams.

I've been suggesting for years that we should reduce the ACCT to 14 teams, for a more rational bracket arrangement. Nobody else liked the idea of leaving any team out, no matter how bad.

So now they're on board with leaving out not just the single worst team, but the 3 worst teams - and are still keeping the nutty 15-team bracketing.

Oh well.

Are the other newly-swollen conferences also leaving weaker teams out of their tourneys?

 

[DSouthr]

I still do not understand why a east coast league felt the need to stretch to the west coast. The travel is going to really be a problem, long flights, time changes, think about having to play @ Miami and on a 3day turn around have to play at Stanford or Cal, in the middle of conference play?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I'm looking for benefits from this expansion. The only one that occurs to me is that it might help recruiting in the Texas and California areas. On the theory that those regions would see more ACC teams and might want to play for them.

It's not a very strong argument, but I'm having trouble coming up with ANY benefits. Can you?

Could work both ways. Would Stanford be able to attract better players when those players know they will play UNC and Duke? Or will it be harder to get good players because they will no longer face Arizona and UCLA?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I still do not understand why a east coast league felt the need to stretch to the west coast. The travel is going to really be a problem, long flights, time changes, think about having to play @ Miami and on a 3day turn around have to play at Stanford or Cal, in the middle of conference play?

I completely agree.

Other demerits include fewer home-and-away games. I'm assuming we will still be playing 20 conference games per year. So that's 14 single games and 3 home-and-away series. Check my math.

It hardly makes sense to rotate only 1 rematch game yearly (assuming we keep Duke and State as our regular home-and-away series). Might as well have the 3 rematch sets be constant. Who should our 3rd "rival" be? I like keeping it close, so I'd opt for Wake or UVa.

 

[Kool1234567]

I would be fine going with the Top 10…The 1 and 2 seeds get a bye…

 

[Bubspub88]

I would LOV to see the tournament go back to 8 teams - three days of glorious basketball. That won't happen for many reasons. 12 teams would not be awful but 15 is just stupid. I am pretty sure the ratings for day 1 are bad, the arena is only half full until the 3rd day it seems.

 

[imajericho]

I would be fine going with the Top 10…The 1 and 2 seeds get a bye…

The 1 and 2 seeds don't get a bye in a 10 team bracket. Cuz you would have 6 after the first round. You actually just have a play in for the 7th and 8th seed and the top 6 get a bye.

 

[JimmyinVA]

...travel is going to really be a problem, long flights, time changes, think about having to play @ Miami and on a 3day turn around have to play at Stanford...

the biggest problem i see is the expense. air travel will go up with increase fuel costs. taking an entire team across the continent multiple times per season ain't gonna be cheap.

 

[Kool1234567]

The 1 and 2 seeds don't get a bye in a 10 team bracket. Cuz you would have 6 after the first round. You actually just have a play in for the 7th and 8th seed and the top 6 get a bye.

My bad I meant to say the 9 and 10 seed would play each other winner plays the 1 and the 7 and 8 play each other winner plays the 2…Then you would have the 4 vs 5 and 3 vs 6.. That could be your 4 games on a Friday like the old days…

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I would be fine going with the Top 10…The 1 and 2 seeds get a bye…

15 Teams

The current approach with 5 days of play, 4 2-round byes, and 4 1-round byes is ludicrous. The only real justification for it is that it manages to include all the teams. If we are willing to leave teams out of the tourney, we can do a whole lot better than continue that craziness.

16 Teams

If we are going to leave anyone out, why not a 16-team field? That punishes the 2 worst teams and would mean zero byes. A real, honest-to-God tournament. You know, like the NCAA tournament used to be.

Why should anyone get a bye? Isn't getting a high seed enough of an advantage? If you stagger the first round over 2 days (4 games per day) then the top seeds would also get a day of rest after their first game. Surely seeding and a day of rest is enough of an advantage.

14 Teams

The bottom 12 play, then the 6 winners are joined by the top 2 teams, giving 8. That punishes the 4 worst teams by leaving them out and rewards the 2 best teams with a 1-round bye. Harsh on the cellar-dwellers, but they know what they have to do. And could make late season games more exciting.

18 Teams

In the first round the worst 4 teams play. That whittles the field down to 16 and then you can have an honest, full field tournament the rest of the way. The problem with this is that you have too many games on day 2. Maybe stagger the games across 2 arenas and 2 TV channels. Or add another day to the tournament. Hotels and restaurants will be delighted.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I would LOV to see the tournament go back to 8 teams - three days of glorious basketball. That won't happen for many reasons. 12 teams would not be awful but 15 is just stupid. I am pretty sure the ratings for day 1 are bad, the arena is only half full until the 3rd day it seems.

Sixteen teams could be nearly as neat. Exactly as neat after the first round.

As for the less interesting early games, that's what TV is for.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

In 2005, we had 11 teams.

4 days
3 byes

Three games on day 1, narrowed the field to 8 teams on day 2 with the 3 bye recipients added back in.

Too many byes, imo, but a pretty nice solution.

 

[askdjfsldkjfsdlk]

Expansion was necessary because of FSU and Klumpson. They threatened to leave the ACC, and the league needed enough teams even if they were to bolt to the SEC.

As for travel, this was the main sticking point to adding the California-based schools. UNC, in particular, was adamant about ensuring the fewest number of West Coast trips as possible. In football, at least, they did a good job of keeping the trips out west to a minimum. I haven't see the complete ACC basketball schedule yet to know how it'll work on the basketball side of things.

 

[RP12]

Wait til a team decides they'd rather lose to avoid tourney travel across the country.

Truth is the ACC as it was and so many of us loved it has been over for a long time. The gap in resources is just going to get worse every year until it crumbles or those who are capable of being nationally relevant escape and join the big leagues.

 

[imajericho]

They should let them all play. What we at 18 now?

Top 2 left Sunday

Top 4 left Saturday

Top 4 seeds double bye. Top 8 Friday

5-8 single bye. Thursday Top 12

9-14 await play-in results Wednesday Top 16

15 vs 18 16 vs 17 play-in games Monday.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Expansion was necessary because of FSU and Klumpson. They threatened to leave the ACC, and the league needed enough teams even if they were to bolt to the SEC.

As for travel, this was the main sticking point to adding the California-based schools. UNC, in particular, was adamant about ensuring the fewest number of West Coast trips as possible. In football, at least, they did a good job of keeping the trips out west to a minimum. I haven't see the complete ACC basketball schedule yet to know how it'll work on the basketball side of things.

I image they'll try to play at least 2 games every cross country trip. Might be fun for the kids, but could be rough on classes.

Are classes still required since NIL? JK

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

They should let them all play. What we at 18 now?

Top 2 left Sunday

Top 4 left Saturday

Top 4 seeds double bye. Top 8 Friday

5-8 single bye. Thursday Top 12

9-14 await play-in results Wednesday Top 16

15 vs 18 16 vs 17 play-in games Monday.

I never understood why the ACC moved its championship game from Sunday to Saturday. Did we sign some contract? Can we go back?

 

[Bubspub88]

I never understood why the ACC moved its championship game from Sunday to Saturday. Did we sign some contract? Can we go back?

I think they were trying to get ahead of the selection Sunday show and have everyone's full body of work in place.

 

[Quest4Seven]

I image they'll try to play at least 2 games every cross country trip. Might be fun for the kids, but could be rough on classes.

Are classes still required since NIL? JK

As bad as the pac 12 fumbled their conference they set up the basketball season perfect for conference play

You have 6 “pods”
The Arizona schools (Arizona and ASU)
LA schools ( USC and UCLA)
Bay Area (Cal and Stanford)
Oregon (Oregon and Oregon St)
Washington (Washington and Washington St)
Then Utah and Colorado who joined the conference last

Each week you are either away or home and games are usually Thursday and Saturday or Thursday and Sunday. So for example USC might play at Washington and Washington State one week and the next week 2 home games against the Oregon teams. When they play UCLA its their only game that week.

I would hope the ACC figures out a way to do something similar

 

[UNC-75]

They should let them all play. What we at 18 now?

Top 2 left Sunday

Top 4 left Saturday

Top 4 seeds double bye. Top 8 Friday

5-8 single bye. Thursday Top 12

9-14 await play-in results Wednesday Top 16

15 vs 18 16 vs 17 play-in games Monday.

Does that mean that the lowest seeds would have to win 6 games in 7 days against multiple teams that would be rested? Does not seem like a chance in heck the lowest teams would have any reasonable chance of advancing for very long. I miss the good old days.

 

[WoadBlue]

So lovely that half the damn conference would be a potential quad 3 or 4 loss in Chapel Hill. I remember when the ACC absolutely owned college basketball.

Legendary coaches. No coach in the ACC today is the equal of Lefty at Maryland, and he never made a Final Four.

 

[imajericho]

Does that mean that the lowest seeds would have to win 6 games in 7 days against multiple teams that would be rested? Does not seem like a chance in heck the lowest teams would have any reasonable chance of advancing for very long. I miss the good old days.

It should be hard. Their regular season play is on them. If they wanted an easier path they shoulda did better in the season.

 

[JimmyinVA]

...Truth is the ACC as it was and so many of us loved it has been over for a long time....

yes, sad but true. i'm happy i got to enjoy the original ACC for many years, it was so exciting! i won't bother explaining it -- you had to be there...

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

As bad as the pac 12 fumbled their conference they set up the basketball season perfect for conference play

You have 6 “pods”
The Arizona schools (Arizona and ASU)
LA schools ( USC and UCLA)
Bay Area (Cal and Stanford)
Oregon (Oregon and Oregon St)
Washington (Washington and Washington St)
Then Utah and Colorado who joined the conference last

Each week you are either away or home and games are usually Thursday and Saturday or Thursday and Sunday. So for example USC might play at Washington and Washington State one week and the next week 2 home games against the Oregon teams. When they play UCLA its their only game that week.

I would hope the ACC figures out a way to do something similar

I don't have a lot of faith in the ACC, but even they should be able to work something out.

 

[Quest4Seven]

Legendary coaches. No coach in the ACC today is the equal of Lefty at Maryland, and he never made a Final Four.

Jim L?

 

[dtodd4475]

It 's a last gasp to survive as a conference.

 

[RP12]

Jim L?

no, Bennett would be the argument despite playing a godawful style

 

[gauchoheel]

Just got to get out of this conference as soon as we can.

 

[TarHeelMark]

I would LOV to see the tournament go back to 8 teams - three days of glorious basketball. That won't happen for many reasons. 12 teams would not be awful but 15 is just stupid. I am pretty sure the ratings for day 1 are bad, the arena is only half full until the 3rd day it seems.

Just think how bad attendance will be in a Greensboro or Charlotte tournament on day 1 when west coast teams are playing?