To the "BB only" deniers...

[UNC_Blue]

To those of you who deny that many of our "BB fans" are hostile towards football, I give you...

WBroylesH wrote:
ShadowSpawne wrote:

WBroylesH wrote:
I think there's no sanctions against MBB, a small punitive sanction
against the Athletic Department for LOIC, and perhaps some suspension of
wins and scholarships for WBB and FBL where there's direct evidence
suggesting an athlete's grade was changed to keep him/her eligible.

Some
people think that the NCAA is feeling heat to drop the hammer. I think
the opposite; there will be a backlash against them if they drop the
hammer. Penn St. proved that the NCAA is not immune to litigation from
the schools, and they'd be in a tenuous legal position if we could prove
that their sanctions were arbitrary and capricious. Also, I think with
the dissatisfaction they're getting from the major conferences, they
don't want to alienate that group further by damaging a signature
school. Finally, their reputation just isn't very good right now, and so
it seems they'd want to strike a balance rather than do something
outrageous that risks making their reputation even worse.

I
assume you must be a BB only willing to do anything to save MBB, but
that crap you just put out won't fly. There is no, none, zip, nada
evidence that FBL had a grade changed for eligibility. The closest thing
they have for evidence of that happening is with WBB.[/QUOTE]
You can bet your hind quarters I'd throw FBL under the bus in a second to save MBB.
That being said, I admit to not being as familiar with the facts of the
case as others. So if there's no smoking gun on FBL, then I'll say they
escape sanction.

That being said, if the NCAA was going to levy
some sanctions against one of our programs without a smoking gun, it
would be against FBL since they have a recent history of sanctions.

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by WBroylesH wrote:

That being said, I admit to not being as familiar with the facts of the
case as others.

To me, this sentence is more troubling than the others you highlighted.

If you don't know what you're talking about, it's probably best to just STFU.

 

[Raising Heel]

Also, you should be careful about posting that stuff here. They might come by and see it.

[/sarcasm]

 

[Scoops Heels]

Hope they delete this thread!!

 

[UNC_Blue]

Originally posted by Scoops Heels:
Hope they delete this thread!!

Because it points out the truth? That a segment of our fan base exists only to promote BB and would gladly destroy FB?

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by UNC_Blue:

Originally posted by Scoops Heels:
Hope they delete this thread!!

Because it points out the truth? That a segment of our fan base exists only to promote BB and would gladly destroy FB?

And there's probably another very small group that would kill the basketball program to promote swimming and diving. And then there's probably a very small number of fans that would kill swimming and diving to promote fencing.

Just because someone found one quote on a freaking message board where some guy that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground says that he'd sacrifice the football team to save basketball doesn't mean there's some longstanding double secret club of fans that want the football team to die. And even if it were the case...so what? Every school has fans that appreciate one sport over the next. It would be beyond silly to think that every fan of every school appreciates each sport the exact same.

Is this a serious thread or a late April Fool's joke?

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

... doesn't mean there's some longstanding double secret club of fans that want the football team to die.

It's actually a quadruple secret club.

They're two steps ahead of you, buddy.

 

[heelmanwilm]

Its so secret they dont know they're in it
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[JimmyinVA]

there are two types of unc sports fans who don't support football:

a) those who oppose unc football because they dislike football in general and will never attend a football game;

b) those who are apathetic due to losing seasons, frequent humiliating losses to rivals, and the perception (right or wrong) that it was football players who first brought the ncaa into our business.

group a) is a very small percentage who are best ignored. group b) are just classic fair weather fans. i don't look down my nose at fair weather fans because every school has them and it's human nature to support a winner. for anybody who's contemptuous of fair weather fans i have one question: who do you think will eventually fill the seats in kenan stadium if not them?

 

[UNC71-00]

Regarding B- what constitutes "apathetic"?

 

[JimmyinVA]

Originally posted by UNC71-00:
Regarding B- what constitutes "apathetic"?

i guess there are degrees of apathy. mild apathy might be watching games on tv only when convenient or it's a particularly interesting matchup, maybe attending a game but arriving late, leaving early, and not cheering. severe apathy would be not showing up at all, not giving a damm until the team gets some signature wins, kicks our rivals' butts, gets in the top 20, is striving for a nice bowl game, etc. at which point they jump on the bandwagon. winning cures everying -- especially apathy.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I'm a fan of both the football and basketball teams (and passively watch baseball - and to an even lesser extent lacrosse, and would prefer any UNC team win against any other school regardless of sport). I watched every minute of every football game last year, read up on them as much as I could, and post/read here to get more perspectives. I think you can safely consider me a true fan of the football team, not some bball only guy.

That being said - if I were given the choice between forfeiting a couple of the Peach Bowl titles the football team won, or the 2005 or 2009 National Championships the basketball team has won.... forfeit some of Dean or Roy's wins, or some of Mack/Torbush/Bunting/Butch wins (2 guys who left us in the lurch [one on his own accord, the other not], and two bad coaches).... forfeit 2 basketball scholarships (out of 12 or so) or 2 football scholarships (out of 80 or so). I think my decision on all of those would be pretty easily made, and not because I'm a football hater - but because the basketball team has better stuff that can be taken away.

I don't know why there seems to be so much surprise (or maybe it's anger) over this issue. Would you rather have the bball team have the same following as the football team (crowds rolling in late, out early, not cheering, etc. all the other stuff we rag on the Kenan crowd for)? Granted, it'd be great if the football team had the same following as the bball team, but thats unrealistic - and I'd rather have one team with a large following (even if its largely bandwagon or fairweather) than none. The basketball team's national following and brand image attract more fans/recruits for the football team than it scares away.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:

I'm a fan of both the football and basketball teams (and passively watch baseball - and to an even lesser extent lacrosse, and would prefer any UNC team win against any other school regardless of sport). I watched every minute of every football game last year, read up on them as much as I could, and post/read here to get more perspectives. I think you can safely consider me a true fan of the football team, not some bball only guy.

That being said - if I were given the choice between forfeiting a couple of the Peach Bowl titles the football team won, or the 2005 or 2009 National Championships the basketball team has won.... forfeit some of Dean or Roy's wins, or some of Mack/Torbush/Bunting/Butch wins (2 guys who left us in the lurch [one on his own accord, the other not], and two bad coaches).... forfeit 2 basketball scholarships (out of 12 or so) or 2 football scholarships (out of 80 or so). I think my decision on all of those would be pretty easily made, and not because I'm a football hater - but because the basketball team has better stuff that can be taken away.

I don't know why there seems to be so much surprise (or maybe it's anger) over this issue. Would you rather have the bball team have the same following as the football team (crowds rolling in late, out early, not cheering, etc. all the other stuff we rag on the Kenan crowd for)? Granted, it'd be great if the football team had the same following as the bball team, but thats unrealistic - and I'd rather have one team with a large following (even if its largely bandwagon or fairweather) than none. The basketball team's national following and brand image attract more fans/recruits for the football team than it scares away.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:


Would you rather have the bball team have the same following as the football team (crowds rolling in late, out early, not cheering, etc. all the other stuff we rag on the Kenan crowd for)?

Is this not already the case........?

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:



Would you rather have the bball team have the same following as the football team (crowds rolling in late, out early, not cheering, etc. all the other stuff we rag on the Kenan crowd for)?

Is this not already the case........?

Haha point taken on the crowd. Although at least the student sections are good for the basketball games - a lot of students would rather be tailgating than make the walk to Kenan for the game. I've seen the student section awfully bare at some football games.

I guess I meant following as in, national following, and brand. It just seems like some UNC football fans almost actively root against the basketball team. As if the basketball team winning a title (or having success in general) makes the football team look bad.

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:
It just seems like some UNC football fans almost actively root against the basketball team. As if the basketball team winning a title (or having success in general) makes the football team look bad.

I don't think this is true. In fact, if you were to draw a Venn diagram of the two fanbases, the circle including UNC football fans would be completely inside the circle including UNC basketball fans. Said another way, all UNC football fans are UNC basketball fans but not all UNC basketball fans are UNC football fans.

Okay, maybe not "all" but I think the situation is almost the opposite of what you're describing. The animosity from football fans towards basketball fans is mostly the result of the bandwagon effect, and frankly, the frustration of being a football fan IMO.

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:

I think my decision on all of those would be pretty easily made, and not because I'm a football hater - but because the basketball team has better stuff that can be taken away.

I don't know why there seems to be so much surprise (or maybe it's anger) over this issue.

For the record, I think you're interpreting the bolded statement in the OP differently than most. Read the entire context of what he posted. He obviously hasn't read any of the reports and has no idea WTF he's talking about. That's the kind of willful ignorance that shines through when he says he would throw football under the bus. Of course he would, because from where he's sitting the basketball program farts rainbows and kittens while the football program is dirty, evil, and corrupt.

The issue isn't whether one sport has better stuff that can be taken away. The issue is the equitable treatment of the two sports, including penalities commensurate with whatever infractions they might have committed. That's why the suggestion that basketball should receive favorable treatment pisses people off IMO.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

The issue isn't whether one sport has better stuff that can be taken away. The issue is the equitable treatment of the two sports, including penalities commensurate with whatever infractions they might have committed. That's why the suggestion that basketball should receive favorable treatment pisses people off IMO.

But the people you're suggesting are pissed off are supposedly UNC football and basketball fans (as you mentioned about the Venn Diagram). Why would any UNC football fan (that is also a basketball fan) be pissed off if the basketball team gets a favorable treatment?

As a fan of both, I'd be tickled to see them both get a favorable treatment. But if I can only get one to get a favorable treatment, I'll take it as opposed to getting none.

The "better stuff" comment was just my personal opinion on if I had to choose which to give the favorable treatment to out of the two, I'd pick the basketball team because a) they have more that can be taken away in the past (national championships, HOF coaches wins, etc vs. mid-tier bowl wins and non-relevant coaches wins) and b) they have more that can be taken away in the future by taking away scholarships and postseason eligibility (bball team will enter next year top 5 in the country as a legitimate national championship contender, football team needs to make some strides in the offseason to contend for the coastal division of the ACC).

 

[UNC_Blue]

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

The issue isn't whether one sport has better stuff that can be taken away. The issue is the equitable treatment of the two sports, including penalities commensurate with whatever infractions they might have committed. That's why the suggestion that basketball should receive favorable treatment pisses people off IMO.

But the people you're suggesting are pissed off are supposedly UNC football and basketball fans (as you mentioned about the Venn Diagram). Why would any UNC football fan (that is also a basketball fan) be pissed off if the basketball team gets a favorable treatment?

As a fan of both, I'd be tickled to see them both get a favorable treatment. But if I can only get one to get a favorable treatment, I'll take it as opposed to getting none.

The "better stuff" comment was just my personal opinion on if I had to choose which to give the favorable treatment to out of the two, I'd pick the basketball team because a) they have more that can be taken away in the past (national championships, HOF coaches wins, etc vs. mid-tier bowl wins and non-relevant coaches wins) and b) they have more that can be taken away in the future by taking away scholarships and postseason eligibility (bball team will enter next year top 5 in the country as a legitimate national championship contender, football team needs to make some strides in the offseason to contend for the coastal division of the ACC).

So, you have two kids. We treat one like an angel and treat the other one like shit, you will be happy just because one of them gets pampered? After all, better one than none.

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:
Why would any UNC football fan (that is also a basketball fan) be pissed off if the basketball team gets a favorable treatment?

Because, according to the OP, it would come at the expense of the football team.

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:
As a fan of both, I'd be tickled to see them both get a favorable treatment. But if I can only get one to get a favorable treatment, I'll take it as opposed to getting none.

Of course, but that option isn't on the table. It's not an either/or decision where we get to pick one. That scenario is only being discussed because WBroylesH put it out there with his ignorant post.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:

I think my decision on all of those would be pretty easily made, and not because I'm a football hater - but because the basketball team has better stuff that can be taken away.

I don't know why there seems to be so much surprise (or maybe it's anger) over this issue.

For the record, I think you're interpreting the bolded statement in the OP differently than most. Read the entire context of what he posted. He obviously hasn't read any of the reports and has no idea WTF he's talking about. That's the kind of willful ignorance that shines through when he says he would throw football under the bus. Of course he would, because from where he's sitting the basketball program farts rainbows and kittens while the football program is dirty, evil, and corrupt.

This is the crux of the matter right here, which RH pointed out. You have a chunk of UNC basketball fans -- who by the way, don't follow or support (time/attendance/money) any other Carolina sports -- who go beyond ambivalence towards football. In addition to not caring about football, they view Carolina Football as dirty, evil, corrupt, and the source of all of the woes and embarrassments of The Great Unpleasantness. You don't believe me? I can think of more than one prominent Tar Heel Radar posters who have hinted at, or outright suggested that, Carolina Football is the only party in all of this mess that is guilty, or at least the only entity deserving of heavy sanctions.

This is annoying and angering for three reasons:

1). Because these dudes clearly don't have an effing clue what the hell they are talking about because the goings-on the past 20+ years, whether fair or foul, affect 4+ sports, including men's basketball. So quit throwing football under the dang bus. Carolina Football isn't responsible for the University grossly neglecting its duty to monitor an entire department.

2). It emphatically underlines the accepted general view of your average UNC sports fan that we'd be okay with throwing football under the bus -- meaning tolerating heavy sanctions on that program -- if it meant eliminating, or greatly reducing the severity of, penalties imposed on the basketball program. That's a steaming pile of hypocritical crap right there. If punishments are indeed handed down, all sports should be punished commensurate to any wrong-doings.

3). It also emphatically shows that basketball-only's truly think that, like RH said, the basketball program farts rainbows and kittens and never has had one misstep since its inception. Hate to break it to y'all, but no. Just no. Underground Railroad anyone? Carolina basketball is not the squeaky clean Boy Scout choir boy that the basketball-only's prop it up to be. Is it Kentucky-bad? HELL NO. Not even close. But, to claim the basketball program is squeaky clean and has never done wrong, is just ignorant.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Furthermore, what's irritating to me personally is how all of this has truly created a culture that football isn't important, and that, in general, no sports are important except for men's basketball. This culture permeates the campus, the current student body, the faculty, the alumni pool, and the general (non-alum) fanbase. Is there exceptions? Yes, of course there is. There are current and former students and faculty and general fans who fervently follow and support football, and always will. But that segment is a minority.

It's this developed culture that annoys me. Stop anyone on the street you see who's wearing a UNC shirt. Or if you strike up a conversation with someone and happen to realize they're a Carolina grad/fan like you. Ask "Think we'll be good next year?" and there's a 75% chance they'll answer your question with basketball in mind. There's also a solid chance that if you are like "No, I meant in football!" they'll respond with someone like "oh...." or "um yeah, hopefully?" or some crap.

It's just annoying. I really don't think there's such a thing as a "football-only" UNC fan. I've seen everyone who posts predominantly on the football boards post on the basketball boards during the season and I know they're watching the game. But the "basketball-only" UNC fan certainly exists. What's worse is that the "basketball OVER football" fan exists as well. That's a problem.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by UNC_Blue:

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

The issue isn't whether one sport has better stuff that can be taken away. The issue is the equitable treatment of the two sports, including penalities commensurate with whatever infractions they might have committed. That's why the suggestion that basketball should receive favorable treatment pisses people off IMO.

But the people you're suggesting are pissed off are supposedly UNC football and basketball fans (as you mentioned about the Venn Diagram). Why would any UNC football fan (that is also a basketball fan) be pissed off if the basketball team gets a favorable treatment?

As a fan of both, I'd be tickled to see them both get a favorable treatment. But if I can only get one to get a favorable treatment, I'll take it as opposed to getting none.

The "better stuff" comment was just my personal opinion on if I had to choose which to give the favorable treatment to out of the two, I'd pick the basketball team because a) they have more that can be taken away in the past (national championships, HOF coaches wins, etc vs. mid-tier bowl wins and non-relevant coaches wins) and b) they have more that can be taken away in the future by taking away scholarships and postseason eligibility (bball team will enter next year top 5 in the country as a legitimate national championship contender, football team needs to make some strides in the offseason to contend for the coastal division of the ACC).

So, you have two kids. We treat one like an angel and treat the other one like shit, you will be happy just because one of them gets pampered? After all, better one than none.

There is no way you are a parent. Because a parent would never attempt to compare the love shown to one of their children with the support that a particular athletic program receives from its fanbase. That's seriously the most absurd analogy I've seen on message boards. And that's saying a lot.

Were you serious with that?

 

[JimmyinVA]

i have been a carolina football fan since 1965. in the early seventies as a unc student i went to every home game and ever since then i've attended as many games as possible. i arrive early, stay late, ruin my throat from screaming as loud as i can, etc etc. i am not a fair weather fan. but i have to keep reminding myself that posters who constantly blame basketball for the lack of support or success of our football program is a very small minority of unc football fans. otherwise, i would have to stop being a carolina football fan because that attitude is ugly and self-defeating. football can earn fan support through winning and showcasing student athletes we can be proud of. blaming basketball does not help unc football.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I guess I don't know what you expect. You call them "Bball only" for a reason. They only like the bball team. If they could save the team they like (basketball) at the expense of another team (in this case, football...but he easily could have said womens bball or anything else) they're ok with that. Which makes sense, they only like the basketball team, so it doesn't really matter to them if the football team gets punished. I don't think any of them have it out for the football team in particular. You're making it seem like if the NCAA walked up to a "Bball only" and said, "Hey, basketball's all clear, but we're just wondering if you want us to unnecessarily lay the hammer down on the football team just for kicks" that they'd say yes.

They may be indifferent to, but they're not viciously plotting against, the football team.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:


They may be indifferent to, but they're not viciously plotting against, the football team.

Agreed. But some here think that indifference is what's holding us back from being national champions.

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:
They may be indifferent to, but they're not viciously plotting against, the football team.

Agreed. But some here think that indifference is what's holding us back from being national champions.

Nah, I blame the uniforms.