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Who is the one player you wish had not gone to UNC? (On court reasoning)

imajericho

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Don't use off the court reasoning for whoever you pick. (Hairston, McCants etc).

Who going by their play on the court do you wish hadn't gone to UNC.


I know who I would say.
 
Can we please not include current players in this question, I know I would rather not include current players.

Purely based on on court play, I would say a few names like King Rice, larry Drew, Melvin Scott, kinda hate to say it but JMM. King, nothing negative about King but I would have rather we had a couple other guys that loved UNC and were better college producers. It totally is nothing negative toward King. Larry Drew, way over rated and his head just was not a reflection of his real abiliity. Melvin Scott, not problem with Melvin but I just always felt he was lower level talent and especially for the PT he got. Jmm, to me just never really came anywhere close to the hype he had coming to UNC and yet he was a road block for better talent coming in because he got so much PT. The ability was always there but the refinement of the skills I just never really saw.

But I will say this, to me there were only 3 guys that I REALLY WISHED had NEVER worn our uniform; McInnis, Forte, Matkar... IMO calling any of those fecal matter is an insult to fecal matter...And larry Drew could easliy make that a list of 4. Please do not ask me to explain, I am not looking to bring up old wounds...
 
Mahtar Ndiaye - Not only should the guy never have seen the basketball court, the guy never should have been in a UNC uniform. Replace him with Brendan Haywood and make Brendan part of Gut's "Starting 6" and UNC cuts down the nets in 1998.
 
It is kind of crazy that Henson could easily be up there based on his early years. His progression at UNC is astronomically insane. He went from a no basketball IQ stiff to a shot blocking smooth jumping shoot elite player who is decent in the NBA.
 
As for wearing the uniform, Larry Drew, Ndjaye, the Wear twins, and Joe Forte come to mind...
and when he wasn't wearing a uniform, Matt Doherty.
 
Don't think the Wears did anything bad besides transfer.

Drew dribbled off his foot enough in his UNC career lol...
 
Originally posted by DSouthr:

Purely based on on court play, I would say a few names like King Rice, larry Drew, Melvin Scott, kinda hate to say it but JMM. King, nothing negative about King but I would have rather we had a couple other guys that loved UNC and were better college producers. It totally is nothing negative toward King.
King was overrated coming out of High School. Not his fault, but he had a really tough time at UNC. To this day he is so thankful that Dean Smith and the coaching staff never gave up on him. You won't find a prouder Tar Heel. His teammates loved him, he was a great defensive player and always got under Bobby Hurley's skin.

He really struggled during his time at UNC, but by the time he was a senior and got that Kentucky game behind him, he was actually underrated and certainly underappreciated. I'll never forget that Kentucky game at the Dean Dome in 1990. King kept turning the ball over and Tar Heel fans were booing him. This enraged Coach Smith so much that he had the team dress in their road uniforms the next home game. Message sent!
 
I had to come out of posting retirement for this.

A while back, I made a thread on comparing NBA players to some UNC players while they were in college, and I had an agenda for it--I was working on a project and I needed some help. I will never forget that you said, "This topic is stupid". It wasn't really meant to be a "discussion/debate" like smoothasbutter does, but instead giving me some ideas and suggestions.

But this thread...I'm not going to insult you by calling this topic stupid, but wow. I don't do that, and I don't throw past players under the bus either. Truth is, every player named so far could take all of our butts to school on the court, and they have nothing to be ashamed of because they didn't live up to our couch potato expectations. Chill on calling other topics stupid when this one is....well, you know.....
 
Originally posted by Carolina Huff:
I had to come out of posting retirement for this.

A while back, I made a thread on comparing NBA players to some UNC players while they were in college, and I had an agenda for it--I was working on a project and I needed some help. I will never forget that you said, "This topic is stupid". It wasn't really meant to be a "discussion/debate" like smoothasbutter does, but instead giving me some ideas and suggestions.

But this thread...I'm not going to insult you by calling this topic stupid, but wow. I don't do that, and I don't throw past players under the bus either. Truth is, every player named so far could take all of our butts to school on the court, and they have nothing to be ashamed of because they didn't live up to our couch potato expectations. Chill on calling other topics stupid when this one is....well, you know.....
Cool. Anywho.
 
Originally posted by HeelFan58:

........stupid , disrespectful , ungrateful just to name a few.
Are you talking about the thread or Larry Who and the "where are they now" Twins?

i don't particularly like the thread but on and off the court I wish those three had never played for UNC.

Another poster (was it Gary) said he wasn't fussed with the twins on the court but the big picture says otherwise. I believe that their departure sent off a chain of events that's seen the Heels front court mired in mediocrity for years.

And Larry? Sheesh! No one can defend him!
 
Originally posted by Ozheelfan:

Originally posted by HeelFan58:

........stupid , disrespectful , ungrateful just to name a few.
Are you talking about the thread or Larry Who and the "where are they now" Twins?

i don't particularly like the thread but on and off the court I wish those three had never played for UNC.

Another poster (was it Gary) said he wasn't fussed with the twins on the court but the big picture says otherwise. I believe that their departure sent off a chain of events that's seen the Heels front court mired in mediocrity for years.

And Larry? Sheesh! No one can defend him!
I didn't defend the twins more than I said I didn't think their play on the court was that bad. They wanted to play more so they left. How they went about leaving was messed up, but nothing on the court was that bad.

Larry Drew is who I would pick. I have never seen a PG dribble off their foot more often.
 
Rasheed Wallace. Great Tar Heel and I love him but trying to force him into that lineup disrupted things so much that I believe it cost Dean a third title.
 
Originally posted by tarheelbybirth:

Rasheed Wallace. Great Tar Heel and I love him but trying to force him into that lineup disrupted things so much that I believe it cost Dean a third title.
I never thought I'd see that name mentioned in this thread . .


For me, I'd go with Mahktar Indiaye . . with LDII a very close second.
 
Originally posted by imajericho:
Don't use off the court reasoning for whoever you pick. (Hairston, McCants etc).

Who going by their play on the court do you wish hadn't gone to UNC.


I know who I would say.
Off teh court reasoning is the only reason to say anythiung like this. If a guy fails to live up tp potentuial, but was a good teammate and citizen, we should say no more after his eligibility is up.

But guys who made trouble, guys like the head case McCants or Makhtar Ndiaye - they are fair game.
 
wheres_dook_thumb3_crop_north.jpg

I wouldn't give this up for anything. So... Larry Drew.
 
I don't particularly like this thread either although I'm not going to bash the OP for it. But even weirder to me is that the OP specified "on the court". I don't think there's one single player that I would admonish for his on-the-court play. Some guys certainly didn't live up to expectations - Dex, Max Owens, Reese, Evitmov, Boone, Morrison, Melvin Scott, LMac and a few more. But I respect their effort and what they gave to the program.

Had the OP not specified "on the court", then I'd be willing to take some shots at past guys that caused us some troubles - LDII, The Wears (even though I don't really harbor any ill will towards them), PJ, Ndiaye. But that would be for them being unlikable jerks - not because of them being less than desirable basketball players.

And holy smokes to the suggestion of Rasheed Wallace. I mean, I guess I understand where THBB was going with that - team chemistry and all. But from my understanding, it was Stackhouse that had more difficulties assimilating in 1994 than it was Sheed.
 
Originally posted by tarheelbybirth:
Rasheed Wallace. Great Tar Heel and I love him but trying to force him into that lineup disrupted things so much that I believe it cost Dean a third title.
The only thing Rasheed Wallace disrupted was the opposing team. Force him into that lineup? Sheed didn't get enough playing time his Freshman year. Reese should have redshirted that year like Pat Sullivan did. Think about that. I mean really think about that. Reese started 1993 with some health issues. If I remember correctly, it was asthma. He missed the first part of that season. Reese sits out in 1993/1994 and perhaps UNC cuts down the nets in 1994 and 1995.

1993/1994
Derrick Phelps
Donald Williams
Jerry Stackhouse
Rasheed Wallace
Eric Montross

Jeff McInnis
Dante Calabria
Kevin Salvadori
Serge Zwikker

1994/1995
Jeff McInnis
Donald Williams
Brian Reese
Jerry Stackhouse
Rasheed Wallace

Dante Calabria
Pearce Landry
Serge Zwikker
*Pat Sullivan - if I remember correctly Sullivan didn't play much because of injury

Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda... I know, but that one Ninja move by redshirting Reese could have made a huge difference. Then again, UNC wins the NC in 1994 and I doubt Wallace and Stack come back for their sophomore years. I'm surprised Wallace came back. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall and heard what Coach Smith said to him. Wallace was a lottery pick after his Freshman season.


This post was edited on 4/17 10:23 AM by CarolinaBlue1982
 
Originally posted by imajericho:
It is kind of crazy that Henson could easily be up there based on his early years. His progression at UNC is astronomically insane. He went from a no basketball IQ stiff to a shot blocking smooth jumping shoot elite player who is decent in the NBA.
Funny you say that because Henson is one of my top 5 favorite players of all time. Thing is Henson spent his freshman year trying to play small forward. Once he moved to his natural position of power forward we all saw the real John Henson.

This post was edited on 4/17 10:20 AM by Tru Blu Tar Heel
 
Originally posted by BillyL:
Originally posted by tarheelbybirth:

Rasheed Wallace. Great Tar Heel and I love him but trying to force him into that lineup disrupted things so much that I believe it cost Dean a third title.
I never thought I'd see that name mentioned in this thread . .

For me, I'd go with Mahktar Indiaye . . with LDII a very close second.
We had a senior led team coming off a NC. We lost Lynch and Rodl along with Wenstrom and Cherry but had Stackhouse coming in. Sullivan gets to play his senior season. I'm not looking at who was a cancer or who I detested - those guys have been covered ad nauseum, I'm looking at who might have cost us a shot at a NC. Wallace was a huge talent but he absolutely disrupted the flow of that team. I would have loved to have him show up the next year but in '93 it was subtraction by addition.
 
Originally posted by tarheelbybirth:

Originally posted by BillyL:
Originally posted by tarheelbybirth:

Rasheed Wallace. Great Tar Heel and I love him but trying to force him into that lineup disrupted things so much that I believe it cost Dean a third title.
I never thought I'd see that name mentioned in this thread . .

For me, I'd go with Mahktar Indiaye . . with LDII a very close second.
We had a senior led team coming off a NC. We lost Lynch and Rodl along with Wenstrom and Cherry but had Stackhouse coming in. Sullivan gets to play his senior season. I'm not looking at who was a cancer or who I detested - those guys have been covered ad nauseum, I'm looking at who might have cost us a shot at a NC. Wallace was a huge talent but he absolutely disrupted the flow of that team. I would have loved to have him show up the next year but in '93 it was subtraction by addition.
I see what you're saying THBB.

The way I look at it, is that was Dean's problem to find time for the #1 high school recruit in the nation. How he chose to mesh that '93 class with the Title squad was on him.

I was ecstatic that he went to NY the day after we won the Title and pulled 'Sheed in . .
 
Originally posted by UNC71-00:
Matt Doherty
I can only assume you mean as head coach, because on the court, Matt was a good team player. Not flashy, and he didn't fill up the box score with stats, but I liked the guy as a player. As a coach... well, he was thrust into a situation that he was not prepared for, IMO. Certainly he could've handled things ALOT better, but he did leave us with some great anti-dook material, so I thank him for that.
 
Originally posted by TarHeelMark:

Originally posted by UNC71-00:
Matt Doherty
I can only assume you mean as head coach, because on the court, Matt was a good team player. Not flashy, and he didn't fill up the box score with stats, but I liked the guy as a player. As a coach... well, he was thrust into a situation that he was not prepared for, IMO. Certainly he could've handled things ALOT better, but he did leave us with some great anti-dook material, so I thank him for that.
And he left some pretty good talent.
 
Originally posted by BillyL:


The way I look at it, is that was Dean's problem to find time for the #1 high school recruit in the nation. How he chose to mesh that '93 class with the Title squad was on him.

I was ecstatic that he went to NY the day after we won the Title and pulled 'Sheed in . .
Nobody was happier than I was when Wallace committed but I think you nailed the problem. Watching them play that year it didn't look like Dean ever got a good rotation nailed down. Wallace and Stackhouse both "demanded" playing time just by virtue of their status as high-school recruits. It was, IMO, the beginning of the end for college b-ball as it had always existed and the end for Coach Smith.

We all know how Dean felt about freshmen playing and I don't think he ever got comfortable giving two of them such prominent roles on a veteran championship team. And I'm absolutely certain that asking Sullivan to red-shirt gnawed at him. I've always thought that it was the way the game was changing that caused Coach to lose his fire. He could NEVER have survived in the 1-and-done era...he wanted to TEACH basketball and the life lessons that went with it.

This post was edited on 4/17 11:16 AM by tarheelbybirth
 
Originally posted by tarheelbybirth:

Originally posted by BillyL:


The way I look at it, is that was Dean's problem to find time for the #1 high school recruit in the nation. How he chose to mesh that '93 class with the Title squad was on him.

I was ecstatic that he went to NY the day after we won the Title and pulled 'Sheed in . .
Nobody was happier than I was when Wallace committed but I think you nailed the problem. Watching them play that year it didn't look like Dean ever got a good rotation nailed down. Wallace and Stackhouse both "demanded" playing time just by virtue of their status as high-school recruits. It was, IMO, the beginning of the end for college b-ball as it had always existed and the end for Coach Smith.

We all know how Dean felt about freshmen playing and I don't think he ever got comfortable giving two of them such prominent roles on a veteran championship team. And I'm absolutely certain that asking Sullivan to red-shirt gnawed at him. I've always thought that it was the way the game was changing that caused Coach to lose his fire. He could NEVER have survived in the 1-and-done era...he wanted to TEACH basketball and the life lessons that went with it.
I agree . . and I truly believe that you are dead on with the comment about it being the beginning of the end for Coach Smith.
 
Why has Joe Forte's name come up so much? Final Four appearance as a frosh under Gut, then won 18 straight under Doh but turmoil between he, Capel and Doh was that issue. His on court performance has definitely been forgotten.
 
I'd prefer to think of "recruiting miscalculations" which every coach of every program had made.

I agree with thbb that rasheed was a miss in that regard for reasons stated.
But for me noone failed to live up to the hype as Curtis Hunter did. Maybe it wasnt fair to him due to injuries and the expectations and so on but i'll never forget my econ 101 teacher interrupting class to announce hunter had comitted to unc and the place went beserk! Everyone thought he was gonna be the next mj

After him it would be JR Reid. He aged Dean twenty years in his time here.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by coolwaterunc:
We wouldn't have won the 2005 title without Matt Doherty.
But I don't believe we would have won it with him as coach.
 
Originally posted by Firefly1984:
Horrible thread and whoever said Matt Doherty is an absolute, asinine assh-ole idiot. Feel free to ban me if you wish for speaking the truth mods.
LOL...you should have seen the threads about some of these guys while they were here. And Matt shot himself in the foot when he took over. He alienated nearly everybody in his attempt for a fresh start. I'm pretty sure even he would admit that he handled things poorly.
 
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