In your opinion do you think they will be better off with Berry or Britt at the pg spot and Paige at the sg, or Paige at the point and Pinson AT THE SG.
Will the heels be better off with Paige at the sg spot...
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Think that is what most all Tar Heel fans expect to see. But who knows what shakes out between now and start of the season?
No question taking the responsibility of running the team off his shoulders will let him focus more on his shot. Let Berry and Britt handle the ball and Jackson, Williams and Paige bomb from the outside.
In my opinion, his style of play at point guard doesn't really mesh well with Roy's system. In the last 3 years I've seen more late clock iso situations than any in the Roy era. So I think we're 10 points better with him at 2 and Berry running point. Also, Williams over Pinson at the 2. Pinson is a person that can spell someone on the wing but I just don't see much offense from him. More athletic Jackie Manuel maybe?
Agree on Berry but think you're selling Theo way short. Much more complete game than Manuel.
LOL what a difference a year makes, it was a year ago I was screaming that Joel Berry should be our starter right out the gate and move Marcus to his natural position at the 2. A couple others came on board with me but got to tell ya, it was pretty lonesome! LOL But look now, you almost have to treat it like a trick question to ask if Joel or Marcus should be our PG for next season, that is cause you guys got to see what Joel at the point & Marcus able to look for his scoring really looks like and it looks a heck of a lot better than a wing trying to be a 2 guard or worse a wing trying to be a PG.
BY the way not selling Theo short but his foot operation puts him behind for the summer and he really, I mean REALLY needs to work on his jump shooting, not gonna be able to do that till the boot comes off, maybe late August or early sept best case? Love the kid myself but IMO he is a solid jump shot out to the trey from being a NBA lotto guy but that is about as far as it was for JP or Jackie, at least at this point. No offense to the kid but that jump shot is butt ugly...
BY the way not selling Theo short but his foot operation puts him behind for the summer and he really, I mean REALLY needs to work on his jump shooting, not gonna be able to do that till the boot comes off, maybe late August or early sept best case? Love the kid myself but IMO he is a solid jump shot out to the trey from being a NBA lotto guy but that is about as far as it was for JP or Jackie, at least at this point. No offense to the kid but that jump shot is butt ugly...
Roy was forced to start a freshman point guard 2 years in a row, there was absolutely no way that Joel Berry was going to start at the 1 spot last year. Paige was thrown into the fire because there was no alternative in 2012, the debacle that Hairston and McDonald left us in for 2013 left him no other choice but to start Nate Britt. The fact that Roy made a promise to Marcus that he would be our starting PG last year meant it was a no-brainer that Joel, barring injury to MP, wasn't even going to be an option at starting the point.
The PG position is just to difficult to master in Roy's system, and the difficulty was purely evident in Berry's struggle on court in the early part of last season. Roy also seemed to liken Britt's speed to pushing the ball up court more than that of JB's . . after all, Britt was faster with the ball than both Marcus and Joel.
The question of whether to play Paige, Britt or Berry at the PG position wouldn't even be discussed on message boards had Roy been able to somehow successfully recruit a 2 guard that could shoot from the perimeter. Had Roy secured a Matt Jones, Bronson Koenig, Devin Booker, James Blackmon, D'Angelo Russell, Rashad Vaughn, Antonio Blakeney, Luke Kennard or Malik Newman, all of which he missed on, to play the 2 spot, then I can assure you all that Paige would be our starting point guard this upcoming season.
Paige is not only this team's(2015) best PG, but, because of Roy's failure to secure a talented shooter, he is also this team's best SG. Furthermore, you only have to look at is the number of shooter/players that Roy offered to know that to have to play Marcus at the 2 spot is not something he truly wishes to do, but, may ultimately and unfortunately be forced to accept, now that Tokoto has gone to the NBA.
The PG position is just to difficult to master in Roy's system, and the difficulty was purely evident in Berry's struggle on court in the early part of last season. Roy also seemed to liken Britt's speed to pushing the ball up court more than that of JB's . . after all, Britt was faster with the ball than both Marcus and Joel.
The question of whether to play Paige, Britt or Berry at the PG position wouldn't even be discussed on message boards had Roy been able to somehow successfully recruit a 2 guard that could shoot from the perimeter. Had Roy secured a Matt Jones, Bronson Koenig, Devin Booker, James Blackmon, D'Angelo Russell, Rashad Vaughn, Antonio Blakeney, Luke Kennard or Malik Newman, all of which he missed on, to play the 2 spot, then I can assure you all that Paige would be our starting point guard this upcoming season.
Paige is not only this team's(2015) best PG, but, because of Roy's failure to secure a talented shooter, he is also this team's best SG. Furthermore, you only have to look at is the number of shooter/players that Roy offered to know that to have to play Marcus at the 2 spot is not something he truly wishes to do, but, may ultimately and unfortunately be forced to accept, now that Tokoto has gone to the NBA.
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Roy should go with Berry and Paige typically for the system. But in a one game scenario you play the players that matchup best against your opponent. So if we play a team with more traditional size in the back court I say you can't be afraid to throw Theo in to the starting lineup.
Awful lot of speculation there, Billy... as for all that I'll just say "maybe, maybe not".
But I will offer one sure correction:
Joel Berry is our best PG. He was the best by skill-set before he stepped on campus, but as you pointed out, there is indeed a steep learning curve at the 1 in the Dean/Roy system. Once JB "got it" and came back from the injury, then it was frankly no contest. That's nothing against Marcus... he's a terrific basketball player, but just a pretty good PG.for the Carolina system. He's a decent facilitator, but his best talent is scoring the rock, which he'll have an easier time doing without having to run the show (plus those PG skills come in handy at the 2 as well). As for the aforementioned missed-on SG recruits, I'll take Marcus as our 2015-16 2-guard and not even glance back.
You and I have obviously gone around before on this subject, but I think we at least agree that Roy was gun-shy last season about starting another freshman PG after the Britt debacle the year before. That won't be an issue this season. I think you're gonna like the Berry/Paige backcourt my friend
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Oz, there's an old (and true) coach's saying: Two 1s are a lot better than two 2s. And yes, Roy did that on occasion.
With JB and MP you've got two guys with PG skills and two guys who can fill it up as well. Honestly the only disadvantage we'll have is defensive size match-ups against bigger 2-guards, but that's a trade-off I'll take with the fire-power we'll bring in the backcourt.
Awful lot of speculation there, Billy... as for all that I'll just say "maybe, maybe not".
But I will offer one sure correction:
Joel Berry is our best PG. He was the best by skill-set before he stepped on campus, but as you pointed out, there is indeed a steep learning curve at the 1 in the Dean/Roy system. Once JB "got it" and came back from the injury, then it was frankly no contest. That's nothing against Marcus... he's a terrific basketball player, but just a pretty good PG.for the Carolina system. He's a decent facilitator, but his best talent is scoring the rock, which he'll have an easier time doing without having to run the show (plus those PG skills come in handy at the 2 as well). As for the aforementioned missed-on SG recruits, I'll take Marcus as our 2015-16 2-guard and not even glance back.
You and I have obviously gone around before on this subject, but I think we at least agree that Roy was gun-shy last season about starting another freshman PG after the Britt debacle the year before. That won't be an issue this season. I think you're gonna like the Berry/Paige backcourt my friend
I disagree, Gary. I've seen nothing from Berry that indicates he is our best PG. I have nothing against JB, but, for a guy that has never started for us, it is difficult for me to accept him as our best PG.
I hope he has a great break-out sophomore year for us. I'd love to see it, but, to surpass Marcus there, it is going to take improvement only measured in 'leaps and bounds'.
Roy was not forced to start a freshman PG 2 years in a row, Roy chose to start Paige as a freshman, when many, including myself begged for PJ to start at the 2. Roy has stated very clearly his desire to start duo PGs on the floor together many times, harkening back to Hinrich at kansas.
It isn't like Roy has not started freshmen PGs, Ty Lawson ring a bell, Frazier as a freshman? Yes, pg for a freshman is hard deal but more of the reason we did not see Berry in more earlier last season was Roy feeling he needed as much experience as he could get considering he was going to start Jackson, a freshman any way.
To say that Berry played poorly early last season? How would we know, he barely saw the floor early on, when he finally got solid PT we all saw what he did with it. He very clearly out played Britt on either end of the court and marcus finally began to play much better when Berry was on the floor with him.
You give a list of shooting guards and suggest that had we got one of those fellas that you would gurantee Paige would be the starting PG for this coming season? Well we got Kenny Williams who is as good as most of that list if not better than some of them, so are you guranteeing now that Paige is our starting PG and Berry comes off the bench?
Sorry billy but I ain't buying much of that post boss, IMO way off on that one...
Billy, doesn't really matter if you, I, gary or anyone else feels Marcus is better or Joel is better, the point being made is that Roy will be playing duo starting PGs together, just like he has stated he prefers to do, just as he has done for the last 2 seasons. Are you suggesting that Berry is not even as much as the second best PG we wil have for next season? Yeah, if you can say that you prefer Britt over Berry then we do disagree big time but other wise it doesn't matter who is the better PG between Berry & marcus if both of them start together.
I'll agree that there were times that Berry out-played Britt in the latter part of the season. Maybe you missed the first half of the NCAA-T game with Arkansas, where Nate carried us when nobody else could do squat.
Kenny Williams as good as most on that list . . ? I don't look for KW to be much of a contributor this upcoming season to be honest with you, he's certainly not at the level of any of those folks. C'mon Dave, please stop with the over-hyping of UNC's incoming talent like so many of our fans seemingly love to do during the summer. Who on that list I posted is Kenny Williams better than . . ? My Gawd, man . . . you're setting up Williams just like you did Berry last summer. Brace yourself, for there is certain disappointment coming your way.
As far as playing or starting 2 PGs this year, of course Roy will . . as its obvious that Theo will likely not have an edge due to his injury, and Williams is not the answer to start at the 2 spot. What is there left for him option wise . . ? Paige, Britt, Berry & Williams.
Had Tokoto stayed his senior year, you think that Berry would've pushed him to the bench as a starter . . ? No way that was going to happen either. Or Berry playing well enough in practice that he takes Paige's place . . ? It wasn't until 3/4's of our season was over that Berry finally elevated his game enough to be Roy's second option at PG.
You are correct that Berry didn't see much of the court in early season, that's because of 2 reasons. First, he stunk when he was on the court and the stats proved that Britt was playing at a more productive level and secondly, his play during all those practice scrimmages never warranted major game PT. Yes, I'll agree, he improved enough finally to be Roy's 2nd PG choice over Nate . . but, that took almost an entire season. No doubt the injury slowed his progress, but, Marcus Paige he isn't.
I actually think the reason Tokoto didn't stay for his senior year is because Berry was going to push him to the bench...
Berry is the team's best point guard and he will make at least ACC second team this season. If you watched him closely in the Dance last year you could see how he was coming around and about to explode on the scene.The kid will remind many of Shane Larkin and Mateve Cleeves before he leaves UNC. The kid can shoot also.
The last 3 National Champs (Duke UConn and Louisville) won with two small point guards starting. And with the shot clock going down to 30 seconds this will help the Heels.
The last 3 National Champs (Duke UConn and Louisville) won with two small point guards starting. And with the shot clock going down to 30 seconds this will help the Heels.
Actually, that was about to happen.
Heard from more than one source that the change would've gone down at the GaTech home game last season if not for the virus hitting. After that Roy figured it was getting too late in the season and decided to run with what he had and just expand Berry's role for the duration... but it was coming this season.
The impending change was a combination of JP not buying into his role as a 3 in Roy's system and, most importantly, Berry's emergence as our best PG.
All that played a part in Tokoto's early exit which, as much as I like JP, I think will turn out best for all involved.
Are you Nate's Godfather or something? I just can't understand any other reason for the undeserved praise.
I've seen you (and others) mention this wonderful performance by Nate in the Arkansas game, and try to use that as justification that he was better than Berry. I watched the game, and while Nate looked good for once, I don't know why we're saying he carried us. His stat line for that game is in the box score link below. 10 points (eh) on 2-4 shooting (ok) 1-2 3PT (nice percentage but he hit one shot) 5-5 FT (this was nice to see given the FT problems of the rest of the team), 4 rebounds (impressive for the little guy but not vital from the PG position) and 1, yes 1, assist (from your supposed PG- floor general?, come on man). As well as 3 fouls since he probably got blown past at least 3 times on the defensive end.
I'll give you a pass if you look at that stat line in isolation and think he may have been finally catching on, however if you still thought that after watching his 3-4 minute meltdown in the following game that almost single-handedly caused us to get bounced out of the tournament I'm not sure if I can help you there.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400786202
My PG-floor general, as you put it, is Marcus Paige. I want him at the point and a decent-good-great SG with some size on our roster starting along side him.
I'll be surprised if Berry doesn't start at point from the git go this year. IMO, it gives us our best substitution rotations. I think we saw flashes of Berry's ability, especially the latter part of the season. Theo may be a while coming around after his surgery and I think Berry's upside gives him the advantage over Britt. We've certainly had this conversation before and I think everyone is eager to see who the fifth starter will be, as well as who's in the game at crunch time.
We really need Pinson and Berry to bounce back from their injuries and be close to 100% if we're going to contend. Our lack of dominant players means we need significant contributions from 7 or 8 very good players in order to play with the more talented teams. Our experience should be a major asset in helping us overcome this talent deficit.
We really need Pinson and Berry to bounce back from their injuries and be close to 100% if we're going to contend. Our lack of dominant players means we need significant contributions from 7 or 8 very good players in order to play with the more talented teams. Our experience should be a major asset in helping us overcome this talent deficit.
All and good Billy, but you can't "Want" what you can't get (I want to be 21 again and to have a chance with a supermodel or two)
I agree with you, if Roy had landed Vaughn then Marcus probably would have spent last season at the point and the Tokoto problems would have come from either Vaughn or Justin taking his place.
Where I disagree is the Britt vs Berry discussion.
Nate is fast, can sometimes light it up (from 3 and from the stripe) and he's enthusiastic. But his idea of floor spacing and pace is still a work in progress. I hate crapping on players and that's why I say it's a work in progress - he can still improve. But at the end of last season Berry was the better of the two.
Marcus is also a great point guard, but last season, with a questionable front court, an ineffective scoring two, a freshman wing forward and a nagging injury, defences were able to smother him. How many times did we see JP stuck unguarded beyond the arc, afraid to shoot and unable to make a play while 2-3 defenders clawed, pushed, bumped, harassed, hit and wore down Marcus.
So as I started, it's nice to "want" and it's another thing to work with what you've got.
Berry is a very good floor general who understands spacing and pace of play. With him on the court Marcus will be able to roam off the ball and find the spots he needs. If defenders try to do the same to Marcus as they did last season, Berry will make them pay - either with his own shooting or by setting up a play with the rest of the team. Ultimately this will free up Marcus to "do his thing" just like we say in the 13-14 season.
As for Britt, I hope he gets stung a little if Berry jumps ahead of him. Hopefully he'll be mature enough to then go away and work on his weaknesses (if he isn't already) and come back stronger. After all, Marcus and Joel B won't be playing 40min per game so Britt will need to be effective when he comes in for either.
I'm with you on this one. Theo can be a solid rotation player. His injury last season just derailed pretty much all of his freshman year.
Here is the thing, we can all agree, Marcus is our best jump shooter, doubt anyone will argue other wise. The question is are ya better off with your best jump shooter looking for his shots or your best jump shooter looking to distribute to lesser scorers? Uhhhh gee, uhhh let me think about that...LOL
AS a PG, not as a player but exclusively as a PG, I believe considering both side of the ball, the over all PG role at UNC, I take Joel Berry as the best PG on our roster. A healthy helping of my feeling there is on the defensive end, but ball handles, ability to see the floor and read what his mates are doing, it is not over hyping Joel, it is what we all saw after Joel finally got solid PT.
I don't know if shocked is a strong enough word to use to express how I would feel if Berry is not our day 1 starter next season.
AS a PG, not as a player but exclusively as a PG, I believe considering both side of the ball, the over all PG role at UNC, I take Joel Berry as the best PG on our roster. A healthy helping of my feeling there is on the defensive end, but ball handles, ability to see the floor and read what his mates are doing, it is not over hyping Joel, it is what we all saw after Joel finally got solid PT.
I don't know if shocked is a strong enough word to use to express how I would feel if Berry is not our day 1 starter next season.
Joel didn't stink when he was on the court early last season, geez man, he was not on the court long enough to stink! It was his lack of experience that kept him off the court early. Stink is some of the outings that JP had, that was stank stuff far to often. You asked if I thought that had JP came back for his senior season do I think he would have been pushed to the bench, yes, I absolutely do believe that, clearly JP believed it as well else he would have been back. And if ya really want to see what stink is, re-watch Britt defending last season, that was really hard to watch, some of the worst example of what not to do on the defensive end as a UNC player that you will ever see.
Theo, love the energy the kid plays with, will not take him long to get back in to playing shape, I just wish he could have had the time to work on his jump shot this off season, aside from his jump shooting he should be 100% by the time practice starts, last I heard he should be able to do lite running and not have to wear that boot by late August or early sept. IMO, the ONLY thing missing in his game is a solid jump shot but as well IMO his jump shot is pretty bad. BUT, will tell ya right now, he has the hand eye coordination to develop a very nice jump shot, his problem is his shooting form and Hubert can work with him on that. He does not have the same problem JP had, he has feel, JP just never had the feel for his jump shooting nor the confidence , Theo has plenty of confidence, George Lynch level confident. Matter of fact, Jackson could have his hands full holding on to his PT, Theo is that good and Theo, like JP is strickly a wing, not a 2 guard. I think we will see a lot of rotations where we slide Jackson down to the 4 and bring Theo in as the wing, especially those times where Brice finds early foul trouble if Hicks does not really take his game to another level next season. Next season is Hicks season to lead follow or get out of the way or experience his spot being taken.
Joel stank enough that he was our 3rd option at PG. Not only in games, but, on the practice court. Roy apparently had little faith in bringing Joel off the bench before Nate.
Let me say this . . . If in your mind, Theo is good enough to take Jackson's spot, then by the time the ACC season begins, I'd predict our backcourt will be Paige-Pinson. Jackson's production/upside in Roy's offense, will be far better than anything Berry will contribute.
Going even further, if Pinson had not gotten hurt last year, this year's starting backcourt would definitely be Paige/Pinson.
And just like last summer, when I predicted Marcus was going to be our starting PG, I'll say again . . "Let's wait 'n see."
Let me say this . . . If in your mind, Theo is good enough to take Jackson's spot, then by the time the ACC season begins, I'd predict our backcourt will be Paige-Pinson. Jackson's production/upside in Roy's offense, will be far better than anything Berry will contribute.
Going even further, if Pinson had not gotten hurt last year, this year's starting backcourt would definitely be Paige/Pinson.
And just like last summer, when I predicted Marcus was going to be our starting PG, I'll say again . . "Let's wait 'n see."
I think Pinson/Jackson are more interchangable than Pinson/Berry. Or in other words, I think Pinson is more of a wing than he is a guard.
If Berry was worse in the early going than the guy (Nate) who looked like a deer in headlights while crapping his pants during that vital 3-4 minutes stretch against Wisconsin, I'm glad he made strides over the course of the season to end up far better than him.
I think with two outside threats (Marcus and JJ), we could be very dangerous next year. I'd prefer to have Berry in there finding them open when they get their shots, rather than having one of them (Marcus) focused on moving the ball around, and less on getting his open shot - because this would cause more pressure on Jackson as well if he was the only off-ball guy that could shoot.
If Berry was worse in the early going than the guy (Nate) who looked like a deer in headlights while crapping his pants during that vital 3-4 minutes stretch against Wisconsin, I'm glad he made strides over the course of the season to end up far better than him.
I think with two outside threats (Marcus and JJ), we could be very dangerous next year. I'd prefer to have Berry in there finding them open when they get their shots, rather than having one of them (Marcus) focused on moving the ball around, and less on getting his open shot - because this would cause more pressure on Jackson as well if he was the only off-ball guy that could shoot.
For the record predicting last season's initial starting lineup was no great feat, given the much-discussed circumstances. Turned out poorly for us (as I predicted --- again, no great feat), but it was what it was.Joel stank enough that he was our 3rd option at PG. Not only in games, but, on the practice court. Roy apparently had little faith in bringing Joel off the bench before Nate.
Let me say this . . . If in your mind, Theo is good enough to take Jackson's spot, then by the time the ACC season begins, I'd predict our backcourt will be Paige-Pinson. Jackson's production/upside in Roy's offense, will be far better than anything Berry will contribute.
Going even further, if Pinson had not gotten hurt last year, this year's starting backcourt would definitely be Paige/Pinson.
And just like last summer, when I predicted Marcus was going to be our starting PG, I'll say again . . "Let's wait 'n see."
Now granted, Roy did some things last season that made me wonder if the pressure was finally getting to him.... but the initial starting lineup was at least understandable (albeit ill-fated)... but c'mon man, on no planet would Theo be starting this coming season, with or without his injury (unless MP, JB or JJ go down). In fact, speaking of which, if not for his own injury Joel Berry would have finished the season as the starting PG and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
I'm not gonna get into predictions, if only because just reliving that infamous gawd-awful substitution after the Under-8 in the Wisky game makes me balk at assuming what should be certainties, but if anyone other than Berry is our starting PG come November then I'll just say my long-time faith in Roy's coaching acumen will be shaken at its very core.
Joel stank enough that he was our 3rd option at PG. Not only in games, but, on the practice court. Roy apparently had little faith in bringing Joel off the bench before Nate.
Let me say this . . . If in your mind, Theo is good enough to take Jackson's spot, then by the time the ACC season begins, I'd predict our backcourt will be Paige-Pinson. Jackson's production/upside in Roy's offense, will be far better than anything Berry will contribute.
Going even further, if Pinson had not gotten hurt last year, this year's starting backcourt would definitely be Paige/Pinson.
And just like last summer, when I predicted Marcus was going to be our starting PG, I'll say again . . "Let's wait 'n see."
Now Billy, you know better than that, it wasn't that Berry stank early last season, it was the fact that Roy had 2 experienced PGs and had already made the decision to start a freshman in Jackson. He brought Joel along slower because he could. Roy felt he could get away with JP at the 2 and in many sets more of a PG role than the guy you thought was playing the point. When Roy can get away with using experience he tends to do just that, did kendal stink the joint up as the reason Drew started for so long in kendal's freshman season?
I did not say or predict that Theo would take Jackson's spot, I said that Jackson could struggle to hold on to the number of minutes he got last season if Theo comes on like I suspect he will. Losing some of his minutes is a far cry from losing his starting job. No need to spin what I said in to something crazy.
Here is one you will not have a need to spin, in my opinion, when that foot is mended and Theo has his game conditioning in, Theo will be the best defender on this team and when you defend you play for Roy. Theo will play some wing and some 2, he is much better suited for the wing. Yeah, there are going to be times that Paige is the point with either Theo or kenny at the 2 or Britt.
Did you follow at all the break downs of PPM with the different combinations of PGs in last season? It was amazing the stark difference in points per minute when Berry was on the floor comparred to when he wasn't, not what I call stinking things up and exactly why you watched Joel's PT climb strong after he came back from his injury and being sick.
When you put a kid (freshman) in for 2 minutes a half you typically are not going to get a ton of good things from him, he is always looking over his shoulder, isn't able to get in to a good rythem before he is yanked. Danny Green as a freshman is a great example but recall the difference when Danny could finally relax knowing he was going to get PT. You saw thew same thing with Joel last season, when he finally believed he was going to get PT the game slowed down for him, he stopped trying to do to much and began to play his game, can't deny that, we all watched it play out.
Billy, I almost take your replies to this as you see me in some way down playing Marcus, I am not, he is our best player, I want him in a better position to help us, I want him to focus on his own scoring because he is so vital to what we are looking to do. Marcus is NOT a great PG, he is a great player but he is much more a combo guard than he is a true point, Steph Curry was not a great college PG either, he was a great player but a combo more than point in college. he is the starting PG for the world champs in the NBA right now, where you fit in college is different than where you fit in the NBA where you have star talent at all positions.
For UNC to do what so many dream of next season, Marcus Paige is going to have to be able to focus more on his own scoring than distributing. For that to happen 2 things have to occur, first some one else inour back court is going to have to step up as a jump shooter, Berry really started to come on in that area at the end of the season, Britt had some good jump shooting games, Jackson is expected to really step up here. But second, our front court is going to have to take a lot of the scoring burden off the back court, forcing defenders to drop down & help defend our front court guys leaving back court guys cleaner jump shot looks. IMO right now I am less sold that our front court will step up as big as I feel they need to than most seem to be.
I need to see Meeks & Hicks take things to another level, I need to see Brice not spend so much time on the bench in foul trouble, and I need to see that Joel james showed us glimpses of the future late last season rather than his career highlites. My gut right now tells me to look forward with caution, not because of our back court, because our front court has to step up further than I think they are likely to.
Gary I think an aspect that many don't consider when they try to explain why Joel didn't play more early last season is the experience factor. Now I know, it sounds odd, duke plays 3 freshmen and they all play well (one of them a PG) , Ky seems to always fill the floor with freshmen and they play well. But what folks don't realize is sometimes it is easier to play with freshmen that are really talented if you play them all together than it is to mix in a couple freshmen in to a very experienced group.
If you have 3 or 4 freshmen on the court together, you dumb down a lot of what you do but when you are dealing with one or 2 you do not dumb it down, you hope your experienced guys on the court can position the freshmen that do not know what to do. Roy was not going to dumb things down last season because he had more experience than he had for a while. So Roy picked the freshman that he was most comfortable starting and the one in his opinion could contribute more sooner in Jackson. I think he as well felt THeo as a defender would have been his second frosh to go to, berry kinda was odd man out and when his time did come he got hurt and then sick.
Now I am not going to argue that Roy should not have made the decision to start Jackson early on, didn't love the notion of JP at the 2 because IMO he was grossly playing out of position, mostly because a lot of the time he was in as a 2 he was actually doing a lot of PG duty and JP as a PG IMO was a mistake.
Maybe it's just me... but as of today, I just haven't seen enough to be all that high on Pinson. Looks like a very very poor mans lance stephenson with absolutely no jump shot. I HOPE I'M WRONG! I'm rooting for the kid to be an AA before it's all said and done, but as of today I just don't see it.
That's a good point regarding dook and UK, especially the "dumbing down" part. Over the last decade the Rat has indeed dumbed down his system (as has Cal). The variations on Dribble Drive schemes they run are shortcuts built in many ways for the age of one-and-dones and (in dook's case) the easy 3-point shot.
In contrast, I can tell you (having coached a version of it myself) that the Dean/Roy system has a much higher learning curve... and the curve is by far the steepest at PG.
You and I both thought (and we were right) that Roy should have thrown Berry into the fire from Day 1 and let him learn on the fly... he's a natural and a sharp kid, and by mid-season he would have been cooking like a pro. However I feared that Roy's less-than-favorable recent experiences with freshman PGs would cause him to err on the "safe" side, what with Marcus already in the fold. Plus he thought JP had earned a chance to start and Jackson playing a complementary position on the wing would be less risky.
Dave, (and I think you will agree with this) here's why Roy's decision was ill-conceived and doomed:
1. JP and JJ at the wings left Marcus without another legit consistent 3-point threat... JJ hadn't gained his mojo yet and we all know of JP's inconsistencies. Thus, opponents backed off our wings making entries to the post more difficult, and ganged up on Marcus making his life miserable and his production plummeted. Being the only outside threat and running the offense took its toll.
2. Jackson's reticence enabled JP to act as a de facto 2, taking him out of his ideal role.
Again, to be fair, Roy had a touchy personnel situation to juggle last season, so I can't blame him for the initial decision... and without the Berry injury, Roy was by all indications on his way to making the needed lineup correction. By mid-season it was painfully obvious that the Berry-Paige backcourt was the way to go --- Lord knows the stats screamed it.
You and I are probably both a bit gun-shy after last season about feeling completely confident, but as you posted ITT, if Roy doesn't come out with the obvious right lineup after all that, "disappointment" would be a mild term to say the least.
Oh, I absolutely agree gary, by having JP at the 2 and as you offer, Jackson had not got his confidence in place, it made us much easier to defend. You basicaly dared who ever our off guard was other than Marcus to take shots, you face guarded marcus and helped off of JP or Britt and many times Jackson.
That ment opponents could drop guards down to pester our front court guys, have guards in more a rebounding position, and tire marcus out running off picks and lessen him as a defender on the other end. Things really complicated when Brice resorted to so many fall away jumpers considering that meeks was still for th emost part a below the rim guy and Hicks was pretty much mostly a stick back guy or catch & dunk. Point being our floor balance was really poor until we brought in a PG not just able to defend and handle the ball as well as find the assist but also showed later season the ability to knock down those open looks. When we had that other guy that had to be respected for his jumper it took heat off Marcus and it limited how much guards could drop down to help defend our front court guys.
In fairness, britt hitting shots helped a ton as well, he demanded to be guarded or splash the jump shot to. The problem with nate was he tended to give back at least as much on the defensive end as he gave us on the offensive end. While Joel did prove he was a freshman at times, he IMO was by far our best back court defender (amoung our PG canidates) not named JP or Theo.
If we can get Jackson hitting consistently his jumpers, Joel hit enough that he can not be left alone, it amps up our offense big time, it gives our front court guys more room to operate and not worry about a guard dropping down & stripping them. It gives us back to front court balance.
Actually, I understand, his jump shot is broke. But I watch how he moves, I am especially looking at him as a defender and the way he just effects the game with his motor. Right now he isn't a great ball handler and that jump shot is butt ugly. But I have watched a lot of kids come & go, I see special in him. I watched this kid come in as a freshman and dominate the game with nothing but his motor and his in your face shear will to not be beaten. You don't see that a lot, saw it in Tyler, saw it in Lynch, I see it in Theo.
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