20 minutes of action?
- Thread starter HeelFan58
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The father has issued a statement clarifying that "action" wasn't a specific reference to the rape itself:
“My words have been misinterpreted by people,” he said in the statement, submitted through his son’s defense attorney. “What I meant with that comment is a 20 minute period of time. I was not referring to sexual activity by the word ‘action.’ It was an unfortunate choice of words and I did not mean to be disrespectful or offensive to anyone.”
“My words have been misinterpreted by people,” he said in the statement, submitted through his son’s defense attorney. “What I meant with that comment is a 20 minute period of time. I was not referring to sexual activity by the word ‘action.’ It was an unfortunate choice of words and I did not mean to be disrespectful or offensive to anyone.”
Yes he chose his words poorly and no man wants to see his son go to jail. It's a good precautionary tale.
Indeed. But of course every media story has latched on to those 4 words and the father is getting absolutely vilified.
I read the victim's 12-page letter early Sunday morning. Very powerful, to the point that I felt like I couldn't breathe while reading certain sections. I could never imagine enduring a tragedy like that or its aftermath.
A petition has been set up by a Stanford law professor to have the judge recalled for what most perceive to be a lenient sentence: 6 months of jail when the state minimum calls for 2 years. It wasn't surprising to learn that the professor is a woman and a friend of the victim's family.
All that said, I'm probably in the minority regarding the judge's ruling. Not saying I agree with it -- the defendant probably should've gotten at least a year of jail time, especially knowing he won't serve a full sentence -- but the judge's explanations all seemed thoughtful and reasoned to me. Of course he's getting hammered on social media like the father.
Just a terrible, terrible situation all the way around.
Yeah, it's terrible that he's a rapist. Six months is a freakin' joke. He's getting hammered on social media as he well should be because it's a shining example of everything that's wrong with our judicial system. How many thousands of people are serving years for pot while this guy was caught in the act forcing himself on an unconscious woman behind a dumpster and gets six months, and will probably serve less.
I don't really think that matters. I don't know all of the details of the trial, but I'm of the opinion that if a jury convicts you, you should serve your time. In this case the requirement was at least two years.
If I'm reading you right, I get the sense you feel bad for dad and if so, I agree.
I don't blame dad for feeling like he's feeling and for saying what he said. I believe him that he wasn't referencing the sex when he said "action". My son could shoot someone in the face in front of me and I'd still have a very hard time coming to grips with the fact that my son is going to jail. As far as the sentence, not sure what to say there. It seems extraordinarily light. But I wasn't able to read the judges rationale. If you could link that, I'd be most appreciative.
I don't blame dad for feeling like he's feeling and for saying what he said. I believe him that he wasn't referencing the sex when he said "action". My son could shoot someone in the face in front of me and I'd still have a very hard time coming to grips with the fact that my son is going to jail. As far as the sentence, not sure what to say there. It seems extraordinarily light. But I wasn't able to read the judges rationale. If you could link that, I'd be most appreciative.
Yeah, the dad seemed to be saying that his son was missing some really significant things in life now because of this but I did not take it to mean he was taking the blame off his son and blaming the girl or the situation. I took it as in "my son screwed up and now he will pay a big price for it."
The sentence was light, yes, but the kid will pay in other ways, trust me! He screwed himself. I only hope the young lady will be able to eventually get beyond the pain. It is possible as long as you know it is not your fault but the stupidity of a young man that could not control himself.
I think the young man should have to be involved in some sort of advocacy program or group situation for rape victims and speak to other young people about the consequences of your actions... something like that, for several years.
The sentence was light, yes, but the kid will pay in other ways, trust me! He screwed himself. I only hope the young lady will be able to eventually get beyond the pain. It is possible as long as you know it is not your fault but the stupidity of a young man that could not control himself.
I think the young man should have to be involved in some sort of advocacy program or group situation for rape victims and speak to other young people about the consequences of your actions... something like that, for several years.
Agreed. I probably wasn't clear earlier but that's my sentiment as well. The judge's explanation might have justified the minimum sentence (as opposed to say 10 years), but giving the defendant less than the minimum was a travesty of justice.
No one wins in this situation. If his sentence was longer, it wouldn't "help" the victim or "make things right." Rape weirds me out. I don't see how anyone could force themselves on an unconscious girl like that, even when drunk off your ass. There's been several times where I've been in the situation at parties where a girl I'm talking to passes out from drinking, and my gut reaction, even when I'm slammed, is to take care of her and make sure she's safe. There's a lot of evil in this world. It's pretty depressing.
BTW, I don't expect praise for being some saint or anything. I would hope anyone would do the same if they were in that situation. I wanna give props to the two guys who stopped the guy from raping her further and then held him down so he couldn't escape. That's badass.
BTW, I don't expect praise for being some saint or anything. I would hope anyone would do the same if they were in that situation. I wanna give props to the two guys who stopped the guy from raping her further and then held him down so he couldn't escape. That's badass.
One more thing. This might belong in a different thread, but since we're on the subject of alcohol-fueled sexual assaults, I really really don't like scenarios where the sex is consensual (though alcohol is strongly present) and then the next day, the woman claims rape. To me, that's such a terrible, awful situation because it's truly a no-win. One of the parties (guy or girl) is going to come away feeling wrongly done by and possibly in jail. It becomes a case of hearsay and emotion, rather than fact, and it often is bad news for the man, no matter how gentlemanly and cautious he may have been the night before.
I read that Beiber (and probably many celebrities) uses triplicate consent forms for anyone that wants to party with him. Maybe we should all go that route.
Yeah, some football players (Shady McCoy comes to mind) host sex parties in the offseason and require all women present to sign release forms before coming on to the premises. It's a smart way to protect yourself if you're a male celebrity in 2016.
Amen! It pisses me off when girls do that crap! That is the reason most women who actually do get raped do not report it because they fear being accused of lying like those dipshits! It is one thing to be drunk, making out and things get heated and you stumble your drunk ass up and get away, say no and all of that but don't get drunk, screw the guy and then have regret for being a drunk slut the night before... should have thought of that beforehand!
And I'd say this happens a lot more than we know. I'd also say that many guys that have been convicted have been a victim of a girl changing her mind afterwards. And I agree, even when these situations don't make it to court, the guy loses. He may not even be charged, but he carries that stain for a long time with peers. Young girls don't think of the everlasting ramifications that come from what they might feel is a small little lie to make themselves look less whorey. It's potentially life-ruining. I'm not saying that happened in this case, but it happens a lot.
Beiber and Shady McCoy are smart dudes.
Here's a guy who was a promising young athlete and faced a similar situation as a juvenile, but was tried as an adult and served 5+ years before the accuser admitted she lied about the whole thing. Why the difference in sentencing?
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/wrongfully-imprisoned-banks-career-nfl-article-1.2090727
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/wrongfully-imprisoned-banks-career-nfl-article-1.2090727
The accuser should have to serve the exact same number of days in prison that this guy had to serve.
Also, I bet you can hazard a guess as to why the two men received different sentences.
ETA: It pisses me off how flippant she was about it, even YEARS later. She ruined his late teens and early 20s and doesn't give a shit. That guy is a saint for not wanting revenge. I'm not a big enough person....I would want revenge.
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I don't think he should do any jail time. Just make him drink a 5th of tequila and then actioned up the arse for 20 minutes behind a dumpster. Only then will he begin to grasp the severity of his actions.
I witnessed several sexual assaults of semi concious women (although no rapes) while at unc. All at frat parties. At the time, to my shame, part of me felt they should know better than to get wasted at a frat party, plus they all seemed to enjoy it. (None prob even knew wth was going on) I know now how despicable it was to think that. But the culture and atmosphere made the behavior seem appropriate at the time. Mob mentality is a scarey thing.
It's not something that's exclusive to fraternity parties; it happens at parties involving all cliques and groupings. I've seen/heard about it happening at everything from parties thrown by my white trash friends to preppy parties to what have you.
Sorry, it just strikes a nerve when people single out fraternities. It happens at all parties, not just Greek ones. And it sucks.
Wow! Either times have changed or I missed all of those kind of parties in college back in the 80s. We would have the keg parties and slide out with one person for fun like that but never witnessed stuff like that and I wentto plenty of frat parties. We even partied with Def Leopard one night and no one did any of that wild stuff then either! Dang, I guess I should have lol. I must be too old!
A helpful educational chart
No doubt. But he just got sent to county. Those are all guys that actually have a shot at getting out in the near future.
Right, but the defendant contended throughout the case that the sex was consensual. It's basically an issue of he said/she said between two intoxicated people, one of whom was so drunk she has no recollection of the night's events.A helpful educational chart
Suppose for one minute that he actually asked her if he could do x, y, and z and she said yes. Can we all at least acknowledge that is one possible version of the events? My point is simply that none of us know for sure, and no one can.
I suppose that's the heart of the issue with all rape cases, and obviously the jury decided it was rape, but I just wince a little bit at the rush to judgment about this case. It's not necessarily as clear-cut as the media or even the victim's letter make it out to be.
Sorry, missed this earlier. Here's a pretty good overview. One particular item of note is that it was the state probation department that recommended six months in county jail.
http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_29970782/palo-alto-former-stanford-swimmer-gets-6-months
Agree but the two guys who witnessed it and stopped said it was brutal. In fact, they got upset and didn't want to give the details in an interview. They said it is unbearable to recollect. So obviously it went beyond regular sexual inter course. I read that she was penetrated with a foreign object.
They have talked about it on record. Here's the statement I was able to find from the two men who caught the defendant. [Interesting to note that the source article inaccurately lists the three convictions against him (assault with intent to commit rape of an intoxicated woman, sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object, and sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object). The article lists digital rape as one of the convictions while combining the latter two actual convictions]:
Speaking to the Expressen, [Carl-Fredrik] Arndt said: ‘We saw that she was not moving, while he was moving a lot. So we stopped and thought, “This is very strange”. When he got up we saw that she still wasn’t moving at all, so we walked up and asked something like, “What are you doing?”’
Arndt added: ‘I’m watching as the girl alive but she lay perfectly still. Peter [Jonsson begins] immediately running, and manages to catch him maybe 30 meters later. We stick [with] him until the police come.’
I don't see anything there that describes it as brutal. I have no doubt it was traumatic for them to witness and understand why they wouldn't want to talk about it further, though.
I've also yet to see anything explaining what the foreign object was. Again, we don't know, but people jump to conclusions. What if the victim and defendant talked about having sex at the party, left to find somewhere to be alone, and he brought a sex toy with him? Again, what if he asked her consent to use it and she said yes? While we can all agree that she was in no state to truly grant consent, the above scenario is hardly implausible.
At first blush this seems to be an open-and-shut case of good versus evil. All I'm trying to convey is that most of us don't know enough detail to paint with that broad a brush. While it seems likely that a crime occurred, I just hate the way it's being reported by the media.
Also, how many of the 100,000+ people who've signed the petition for the judge's removal have bothered to educate themselves on the facts of the case? As I've already pointed out, the six month sentence in county jail was recommended by the state probation department. Are there petitions for the removal of those employees as well? Of course not. Very little of the coverage I've read has laid out the facts in a thorough and objective manner. It has taken me reading about a dozen different sources to piece together the various details of the case, and even then I'm in the dark about plenty more. It's just shoddy journalism IMO.
And if you'll let me rant a little more, here's a headline I read today: "Black teen dies while being chased by armed white mob 'calling him a n*****r.'" Wow, I thought. It's 2016 and there are still lynch mobs running around? Well it took about 30 seconds of digging to learn that the teen in question had been involved in a gang fight immediately prior to his death. He ran, was chased by the other gang (that actually included both white and Hispanic men), and escaped, but he later died from an ensuing asthma attack. Unfortunately, if you had just taken that headline at face value, you'd think it was a racially-motivated hate crime and that the so-called mob had killed him. That crosses the line of shoddy journalism into outright irresponsible journalism, or more likely click bait.
The Making a Murderer documentary has made me really take media reports and even police/prosecutor reports in cases such as these with a big grain of salt.
Okay, @RaisingHeel, I had not read that interview with the guys. I saw them on one of those TV news shows (Inside Edition??maybe) and the one they talked to (blonde kid) got choked up and said he did not want to talk about it, it was horrible. Either way, brutal or not, it was a bad thing and he did get a slap on the wrist.
There was a report last evening on my local news that ran some statistics on college rapes and they listed a few local schools and the graphic they put on screen had Clemson having 4 in 2014 and then UNC-Chapel hill had 13 and UNC-Charlotte had 18, which astonished me. Here is the link to the web page. I am not sure if Mr. Waller's actual video report is on there or not but he does have a link to the data from which he got this, but I have not checked into it. They don't mention all the schools in the link that were mentioned on TV last night.
http://www.wyff4.com/news/SC-colleges-not-immune-to-campus-rape-data-shows/39943120
There was a report last evening on my local news that ran some statistics on college rapes and they listed a few local schools and the graphic they put on screen had Clemson having 4 in 2014 and then UNC-Chapel hill had 13 and UNC-Charlotte had 18, which astonished me. Here is the link to the web page. I am not sure if Mr. Waller's actual video report is on there or not but he does have a link to the data from which he got this, but I have not checked into it. They don't mention all the schools in the link that were mentioned on TV last night.
http://www.wyff4.com/news/SC-colleges-not-immune-to-campus-rape-data-shows/39943120
Ya, if it's true that falling asleep negates prior consent that means there's been a lot more rapes than we know of. I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there that haven't exactly satisfied their female partners, and as a result of the ineptitude, the female partner falls asleep during the act. If true, it looks like that's technically rape.
I don't think falling asleep on a boring partner is rape BUT if you are in a relationship and force someone to have sex that constitutes rape.
Now if you are in a relationship and the woman passes out drunk or something and you screw her anyway, is that rape???? ehhhhhh I would not call it rape necessarily because she did not object to it due to being inebriated....I would say that is really stupid to do though and it's a slippery slope I guess but damn, if you have common sense it should not be a problem, honestly.
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