A couple of scandal updates...

[gary-7]

...and intel from down in my neck o' the woods.

- As I mentioned previously a couple of my coach mafia buds in ATL know Michel (the ex-ref / custom clothier who recruited some coaches into the scam) and consider him a major wank-job, and are not really surprised he was was involved in something like this.

- Speaking of coaches, word down here is a few HS coaches are "sh**ing bricks". Adidas has been throwing $$ around for some of these showcase tourneys held at some prominent local schools (and rumor has had it some coaches might be getting some "sweeteners" on the side) --- and given the public school recruiting controversies that constantly swirl around here? Well... ruh-roh. Honestly, I have no idea if the feds are sniffing that far down the totem pole, but it's interesting watching the current squirming.

- On the Auburn front, man, Chuck Person has had a rough couple of weeks. He appeared in federal court today for his arraignment, etc, whilst being in the midst of a divorce case that's currently in court over in Alabama. Yikes.

- Speaking of which, I posted at the outset that Bruce Pearl would likely get canned over this. Starting to look like I jumped the gun on that. As things have shaken out the Person incident was a "one-off" as the feds themselves put it --- in other words the big doofus stumbled into a sting that wasn't even aimed at him (doh!). As I said, Chuck has some "issues" and was looking for a loan and went to the wrong guy (Michel) who basically told him he had a better idea, as in "hey, got any players coming out next year?" Y'all know the rest. Thus, I'm told Pearl may survive this because there's no way he would be complicit as it would be of no advantage to him, because (unlike say, Louisville or AZ) the players' families weren't getting paid to come to Auburn --- they were getting paid to leave. Sheesh. Go figure. Now that being said, if some more ugliness comes out that say, Chuck was pulling shenanigans with incoming recruits, well, that would change everything.

- Finally (and disclaimer, I don't know this to be true), I've heard a buzz that once the FBI finally informed the NCAA, they asked (directed) the NCAA to back off any activities to investigate this scandal until the FBI's own investigation is completed. Again, I don't know for sure that's true, but it at least makes sense, as the NCAA could compromise an on-going federal case. Given that more indictments are supposedly coming, this whole thing could be playing out for a looonnng time.

That's all for now.

 

[Steat]

...and intel from down in my neck o' the woods.

- As I mentioned previously a couple of my coach mafia buds in ATL know Michel (the ex-ref / custom clothier who recruited some coaches into the scam) and consider him a major wank-job, and are not really surprised he was was involved in something like this.

- Speaking of coaches, word down here is a few HS coaches are "sh**ing bricks". Adidas has been throwing $$ around for some of these showcase tourneys held at some prominent local schools (and rumor has had it some coaches might be getting some "sweeteners" on the side) --- and given the public school recruiting controversies that constantly swirl around here? Well... ruh-roh. Honestly, I have no idea if the feds are sniffing that far down the totem pole, but it's interesting watching the current squirming.

- On the Auburn front, man, Chuck Person has had a rough couple of weeks. He appeared in federal court today for his arraignment, etc, whilst being in the midst of a divorce case that's currently in court over in Alabama. Yikes.

- Speaking of which, I posted at the outset that Bruce Pearl would likely get canned over this. Starting to look like I jumped the gun on that. As things have shaken out the Person incident was a "one-off" as the feds themselves put it --- in other words the big doofus stumbled into a sting that wasn't even aimed at him (doh!). As I said, Chuck has some "issues" and was looking for a loan and went to the wrong guy (Michel) who basically told him he had a better idea, as in "hey, got any players coming out next year?" Y'all know the rest. Thus, I'm told Pearl may survive this because there's no way he would be complicit as it would be of no advantage to him, because (unlike say, Louisville or AZ) the players' families weren't getting paid to come to Auburn --- they were getting paid to leave. Sheesh. Go figure. Now that being said, if some more ugliness comes out that say, Chuck was pulling shenanigans with incoming recruits, well, that would change everything.

- Finally (and disclaimer, I don't know this to be true), I've heard a buzz that once the FBI finally informed the NCAA, they asked (directed) the NCAA to back off any activities to investigate this scandal until the FBI's own investigation is completed. Again, I don't know for sure that's true, but it at least makes sense, as the NCAA could compromise an on-going federal case. Given that more indictments are supposedly coming, this whole thing could be playing out for a looonnng time.

That's all for now.

I've heard a buzz that once the FBI finally informed the NCAA, they asked (directed) the NCAA to back off any activities to investigate this scandal until the FBI's own investigation is completed


Yep, I can see the NCAA tipping off Capel...

 

[al would]

NCAA best mind their manners .. interfering in a criminal investigation can get you room and board in a Federal hotel.

 

[Heelswin]

It's called Obstruction of Justice ... now wouldn't that be sumthin if our good ole buddy the NCAA stepped in its own turd bucket!!!???

 

[Tom79]

NCAA best mind their manners .. interfering in a criminal investigation can get you room and board in a Federal hotel.

Do you get to bring your toothbrush or does the facility furnish one? .

 

[DSouthr]

...and intel from down in my neck o' the woods.

- As I mentioned previously a couple of my coach mafia buds in ATL know Michel (the ex-ref / custom clothier who recruited some coaches into the scam) and consider him a major wank-job, and are not really surprised he was was involved in something like this.

- Speaking of coaches, word down here is a few HS coaches are "sh**ing bricks". Adidas has been throwing $$ around for some of these showcase tourneys held at some prominent local schools (and rumor has had it some coaches might be getting some "sweeteners" on the side) --- and given the public school recruiting controversies that constantly swirl around here? Well... ruh-roh. Honestly, I have no idea if the feds are sniffing that far down the totem pole, but it's interesting watching the current squirming.

- On the Auburn front, man, Chuck Person has had a rough couple of weeks. He appeared in federal court today for his arraignment, etc, whilst being in the midst of a divorce case that's currently in court over in Alabama. Yikes.

- Speaking of which, I posted at the outset that Bruce Pearl would likely get canned over this. Starting to look like I jumped the gun on that. As things have shaken out the Person incident was a "one-off" as the feds themselves put it --- in other words the big doofus stumbled into a sting that wasn't even aimed at him (doh!). As I said, Chuck has some "issues" and was looking for a loan and went to the wrong guy (Michel) who basically told him he had a better idea, as in "hey, got any players coming out next year?" Y'all know the rest. Thus, I'm told Pearl may survive this because there's no way he would be complicit as it would be of no advantage to him, because (unlike say, Louisville or AZ) the players' families weren't getting paid to come to Auburn --- they were getting paid to leave. Sheesh. Go figure. Now that being said, if some more ugliness comes out that say, Chuck was pulling shenanigans with incoming recruits, well, that would change everything.

- Finally (and disclaimer, I don't know this to be true), I've heard a buzz that once the FBI finally informed the NCAA, they asked (directed) the NCAA to back off any activities to investigate this scandal until the FBI's own investigation is completed. Again, I don't know for sure that's true, but it at least makes sense, as the NCAA could compromise an on-going federal case. Given that more indictments are supposedly coming, this whole thing could be playing out for a looonnng time.

That's all for now.

OK, so in truth, some of this is hard to swallow. Am I to understand that the FBI is chatting up your buds and telling them that this is a 1 off deal with Person and that no other at that school is involved? First, you NEVER believe what law enforcement says during an active investigation, saying we are not looking any deeper tends more often to mean they are and have already dug deep. This is a prime tactic when they are pumping for info, make you feel everything is OK and "let you talk".

Next, I find it hard to believe that the FBI is doing a lot of truthful communication with the NCAA, I mean heck, the NCAA could be complicit, they are the enforcement body that should have investigated what they knew was occurring years ago and have not so the real question would be are NCAA officials themselves directly involved? I mean, isn't the first question that come to your mind when the FBI is talking to the NCAA, how is it that you knew nothing about this yet it seems such common knowledge? If you did know about it then why have you done basically nothing about it, considering it is the core of what you exist to do? So if you knoew about it and did nothing to stop it then "are you involved"?

Even if the FBI does loop in the NCAA with all it has found considering how feckless the NCAA investigations actually have been it is hard for me to see how what little they are able to do could interfere with the FBI's work. I am not suggesting you have provided bad info gary, I am saying what you were told does not strike me as solid. I could well see the FBI at some point maybe looking to gain access to the NCAAs own phone records and emails when coaches tell the FBI under oath they have reported these things to the NCAA and nothing was ever done about them.

Now as to the high schools coaches, yeah, pretty sure their pockets have been lined to help steer big time talents. HS coach, AAU coach, kinda same in respect to they have influence over a kid and his family so easy to see why HS coaches could get concerned.

 

[gary-7]

OK, so in truth, some of this is hard to swallow. Am I to understand that the FBI is chatting up your buds and telling them that this is a 1 off deal with Person and that no other at that school is involved?

WTF Dave? Nobody's "chatting up" anyone (obviously). C'mon man, why would you even post something silly like that? The "one-off" thing was in the initial statements from the feds themselves, as I said. I'm just trying to relay some relevant info. Person went to the wrong guy for a loan and bumbled into an FBI sting and swallowed the bait. It's that simple.

Now, if it turns out UnderArmour (Auburn's shoe co.) was doing the same thing as Adidas then it might go deeper, but there's nothing out there yet to indicate that. If you're looking for the next shoe to drop (as it were), keep an eye out for the EYBL (nike) fallout coming.

As for the NCAA stuff, again, I don't know if what I heard was true there, but it absolutely makes sense. If the NCAA immediately starts poking around too soon it could in fact impede an ongoing investigation. And, as you said, if the NCAA is complicit, they themselves might have some splainin' to do.

 

[DSouthr]

Want to follow my above reply and talk more about why I strongly suspect the NCAA is directly involved in this steering scandal and let me make sure I qualify this as my opinion and not from a FBI source.

How many of you fans knew this stuff was going on, I find it hard to believe those of you that have been following the sport, been on these message boards for a good while really believed things were clean in the recruiting world. Yeah, we all know it was dirty, I have discussed it to an extent, others have as well, gary being another example. So many times when the topic arose it was met with ridicule, go get your tin foil hats, conspiracy theorist, all grades of ridicule. Yeah, there have been several very solid media articles but in general sports media, who should be on the ground at events, really has seemed to treat it as a subject to stay away from.

When I see Dick Vital go on about how heart broken he is, come on man, you have been plugged in on the ground for what, well over 40yrs and this in some way shocks you? Even Roy, I mean come on Roy, you knew this stuff was going on, you heard about it, guarantee ya you have been hit up by recruits or someone operating on their behalf, at very least by those promising you they could steer a kid to you for the right amount of money. K is out there now spouting this BS about the square pegs not fitting in the round hole of the NCAA, it is not about the shape of pegs K, it is about following the rules and as we see, following the law as well.

Point is, they knew, coaches, sports media, fans that follow this stuff closely, how could you not know is more the question, yeah Dicky V knew to. So am I or any of you to believe that there are dirty coaches and clean coaches out there and when a clean coach lost a big time recruit to a dirty coach and the clean coach knew why he did nothing about it? AS freakin competitive as any coach I have ever known is, they are just going to back away and take the hit and do nothing about it? Nah, that just isn't reality.

So only 2 possibilities as far as I can see it, either all coaches are dirty and there is no different between Calipari, Self, Miller, K, or Roy...OR, what I more believe is that there are clean coaches to an extent, I do think all have some degree of dirt but that some are just so over the top to be allowed to continue. For the purpose of this explanation, allow me to label the mostly clean coaches as clean and the over the top dirty ones as dirty.

So when the clean coach loses a top recruit he has worked for multiple years to get to a dirty coach and the clean coach know it is because the kid was bought does the clean coach just walk away or does he report it to the authority of his sport, the NCAA. While on the one hand there is that brotherhood of coaching thing but on the other hand, you steal the kid I worked so hard on for 2yrs because you had him bought and paid for then you are not going to be real brotherly, you hit back and you do so to the enforcement body of your sport, the NCAA.

Now if you had reported such things in the past and time after time nothing was ever done about them, then yeah, at some point you figure out reporting to the NCAA is a waste of time. So the question becomes why after time after time of reporting such things to the NCAA has nothing ever been done about it, not even an investigation, nothing but crickets in the room?

Now when questioned about this the NCAA has hidden behind a couple of positions. First when a private school is involved they have hidden behind the lack of ability to use the FOIA requests, duke as an example. Second, they have hidden behind this inability to do things like secure phone records, emails, bank records, you know the law enforcement powers not granted to private entities like the NCAA.

The FOIA thing, excuse me but why should the NCAA have to use this? All these schools are members of the NCAA and as such agree to obey all NCAA rules, guidelines, and directives. A simply we need this or we are coming in this afternoon to view these records or just go and demand to see what you need. The NCAA does have the power to boot you out of the NCAA. Now of course the school could elect to fight such an action in court but would they, ya know the court does have the power to secure phone records, emails, bank records so do ya really want to go there if you are hiding something and if not hiding anything then why6 hide behind cloaks of being a private school when information is requested by your governing body?

Next, the NCAA may not be able to force to secure ph records, emails, bank account info, so turn the matter over to the courts who do have that ability and power to compel, as well as power to compel verbal testimony under oath, you could go to jail if ya lie to them.

Yet the NCAA has hidden behind fake narratives and seems when ever they do everyone steps back with a collective oh well, what can ya do. Sorry but that isn't good enough, it is what has allowed what we see now, so far just the very tip of the iceberg of corruption that is occurring, this collective oh well.

The NCAA (its officials) is either all about doing what its very charter demands it do or it isn't. It doing as its charter demands should be the expectation, it should be the very minimum expectation and if that expectation is not met then serious questions have to be asked. These things are to commonly known for the NCAA itself to not know about them and yet time after time they have done nothing and very rarely has it even become public that anything was reported? They claim to be doing all they can and yet they do nothing but hide reports and hide behind lame excuses.

So is it out of some version of fear that they refuse to use the full power they have or could it be more likely that NCAA officials themselves have been paid to look the other way? With the amounts of money we are dealing with here and knowing that people have a price, people can be bought off with the only question being how much. Telling you IMO it is not just kids that have been bought and paid for, it is the NCAA itself that has as well been bought and paid for to look the other way, don't rock the boat.

And ya know, maybe the fact that UNC has not been a school that wanted to play the game with them, maybe UNC had to be taken down, well we can hit them with that easy grade class thing, turn our media sources on them, spin public opinions negative toward them and make them pay a heavy price, heck we can drag this out for years.

Now is this fact or is this conspiracy theory, no where in this have I claimed it to be either, what it is in my opinion is grounds for questions to be asked, answers sought out and not ruling anything out until those questions are answered in a logical manner that satisfy government investigators that have the power to compel and the threat of jail to those that refuse to do so. At this point and IMO considering the NCAA as a willing partner to this FBI investigation is way premature and it would surprise me if the FBI would do so.

 

[DSouthr]

WTF Dave? Nobody's "chatting up" anyone (obviously). C'mon man, why would you even post something silly like that? The "one-off" thing was in the initial statements from the feds themselves, as I said. I'm just trying to relay some relevant info. Person went to the wrong guy for a loan and bumbled into an FBI sting and swallowed the bait. It's that simple.

Now, if it turns out UnderArmour (Auburn's shoe co.) was doing the same thing as Adidas then it might go deeper, but there's nothing out there yet to indicate that. If you're looking for the next shoe to drop (as it were), keep an eye out for the EYBL (nike) fallout coming.

As for the NCAA stuff, again, I don't know if what I heard was true there, but it absolutely makes sense. If the NCAA immediately starts poking around too soon it could in fact impede an ongoing investigation. And, as you said, if the NCAA is complicit, they themselves might have some splainin' to do.

"As things have shaken out the Person incident was a "one-off" as the feds themselves put it -"

or "The "one-off" thing was in the initial statements from the feds themselves"

^ Fits my usage of "chattin it up", it strikes me more as investigative technique than letting them know they are really off the hook. The FBI used that exact same technique on a friend of mine, told her she was in the clear, tried to get her to wear a wire in a sting op, she refused because there were some heavy weight folks involved and people die over that stuff. In the end the feds burned her and she did 3yrs, I didn't say what I did without knowing what I am talking about.

My understanding is some Nike info was involved in one of the sports agents that got raided. So yeah, EYBL and Nike programs are going to feel the same heat the Addias folk feel now. But there are bigger fish involved and that may be what this is really all about. Ask yourself, how do these apparel companies keep money like is being spread around off the books? Could it be that they may deal with some folks that operate in a CASH ONLY world with money that at times needs the help of MayTag?

 

[gary-7]

"As things have shaken out the Person incident was a "one-off" as the feds themselves put it -"

or "The "one-off" thing was in the initial statements from the feds themselves"

^ Fits my usage of "chattin it up", it strikes me more as investigative technique than letting them know they are really off the hook. The FBI used that exact same technique on a friend of mine, told her she was in the clear, tried to get her to wear a wire in a sting op, she refused because there were some heavy weight folks involved and people die over that stuff. In the end the feds burned her and she did 3yrs, I didn't say what I did without knowing what I am talking about.

My understanding is some Nike info was involved in one of the sports agents that got raided. So yeah, EYBL and Nike programs are going to feel the same heat the Addias folk feel now. But there are bigger fish involved and that may be what this is really all about. Ask yourself, how do these apparel companies keep money like is being spread around off the books? Could it be that they may deal with some folks that operate in a CASH ONLY world with money that at times needs the help of MayTag?

Well again, the "one-off" was a description given by a federal investigator to the media, not to Chuck... and he certainly ain't off the hook. He just got arraigned. But on the bright side, if any of that helped lure in bama then there's a bright side. The fact Sexton got paid is and was the poorest kept "secret" in ATL.

 

[imajericho]

Shouldn't auburn worry about people taking tests for their football players?

 

[gary-7]

Shouldn't auburn worry about people taking tests for their football players?

No. Because they didn't. BSPN regurgitating old allegations that have been investigated and debunked. Might wanna check the facts before you make smartass posts.

 

[midline]

Yea, recruiting is a dirty business. Has been for years. Now I don't know if the big time schools have to do it as much as maybe some schools trying to get to that next level. Say you are at Clemson, NC State, or any other school that just can't get over the hump. As coach you are making more money than you ever dreamed. And you would like to keep that big check coming for a few more years. Not much that some of these guys wouldn't do to hold on to those gigs. Of course, most coaches that go that route certainly have a path of "plausible deniability" set up where it is hard to prove they ever knew anything if trouble arises. Anytime that winning is important, and it involves the big money that basketball does these days, there will be many that will take whatever chance may be needed. Just look back to the old UCLA teams. With his plausible deniability, grandfatherly appearance, and countless wins, Wooden became a basketball icon. All the while letting a booster by the name of Sam Gilbert buy player after player. Probably cheated twice as much as Tark ever dreamed of, but Wooden seemed untouchable. Still does.

 

[gary-7]

Yea, recruiting is a dirty business. Has been for years. Now I don't know if the big time schools have to do it as much as maybe some schools trying to get to that next level. Say you are at Clemson, NC State, or any other school that just can't get over the hump. As coach you are making more money than you ever dreamed. And you would like to keep that big check coming for a few more years. Not much that some of these guys wouldn't do to hold on to those gigs. Of course, most coaches that go that route certainly have a path of "plausible deniability" set up where it is hard to prove they ever knew anything if trouble arises. Anytime that winning is important, and it involves the big money that basketball does these days, there will be many that will take whatever chance may be needed. Just look back to the old UCLA teams. With his plausible deniability, grandfatherly appearance, and countless wins, Wooden became a basketball icon. All the while letting a booster by the name of Sam Gilbert buy player after player. Probably cheated twice as much as Tark ever dreamed of, but Wooden seemed untouchable. Still does.

You're right --- Wooden was untouchable. Unless someone just came out with documents on Gilbert, that was accepted by the PTB. Now make no mistake, Tark was a total rogue, but yes his image brought him more scrutiny.

 

[Ned Cota]

Shouldn't auburn worry about people taking tests for their football players?

You may as well just say "Hey Gary! Nana nana boo boo!"

 

[gary-7]

You may as well just say "Hey Gary! Nana nana boo boo!"

Nah. That would be more fact-based....

 

[DSouthr]

You're right --- Wooden was untouchable. Unless someone just came out with documents on Gilbert, that was accepted by the PTB. Now make no mistake, Tark was a total rogue, but yes his image brought him more scrutiny.

IDK, it does take a lot to take an icon down but since the internet age where so much information is available instantly and the closets are harder to secure it does happen. I would have thought at one time Paterno was untouchable in college football but look now at his legacy. Wooden even now is seen much differently than he was. It is frustrating to see things that should have been corrected many years ago not only go on unchecked but seem to become the norm to the extent that the considered legend of current coaches talks about square pegs in round holes rather than come out strong against this steering scandal.

 

[Tom79]

And in further developments...

et tu KU?

The University Daily Kansas says they requested documents from the FBI involving Kansas and Adidas but were denied by the organization due to an ongoing investigation. The denial does not mean Kansas committed any wrongdoing, but it does mean the FBI has some records that mention the school.

Hmm....

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Things that make you say, hmmmmm!

I know I should wait until the facts are settled, but I can't help myself! Anybody still think Self would be a good coach to Join The Family!?

Replacing Roy will be more painful than replacing DES because there is no Roy out there to take up the mantle! (I think DES is the greatest combination of coach and man since humans started walking upright so don't misread this)

Hopefully, they will cure aging soon and Roy can coach forever!

 

[Tom79]

Hubert, IMO.

Seems there are still some folks under scrutiny...this "scandal" may eclipse that 'ol LOIC thingy....

 

[DSouthr]

And in further developments...

et tu KU?

The University Daily Kansas says they requested documents from the FBI involving Kansas and Adidas but were denied by the organization due to an ongoing investigation. The denial does not mean Kansas committed any wrongdoing, but it does mean the FBI has some records that mention the school.

Hmm....

Yep, reckon the FBI is taking a "Self-y" ! LOL

 

[FlaTarHeel]

Hubert, IMO.

Seems there are still some folks under scrutiny...this "scandal" may eclipse that 'ol LOIC thingy....

Also Jerry Stackhouse, King Rice to name a few others.
Tar Heels to the bone

 

[Tom79]

Also Jerry Stackhouse, King Rice to name a few others.
Tar Heels to the bone

We will have our choice from "the family" especially those already on staff or coaching. Nice to have Roy for a while...

 

[midline]

Things that make you say, hmmmmm!

I know I should wait until the facts are settled, but I can't help myself! Anybody still think Self would be a good coach to Join The Family!?

Replacing Roy will be more painful than replacing DES because there is no Roy out there to take up the mantle! (I think DES is the greatest combination of coach and man since humans started walking upright so don't misread this)

Hopefully, they will cure aging soon and Roy can coach forever!

Bill Self. The "Hair Club For Men" walking advertisement. For me, no. And don't think he would leave Kansas. He has it made there. Heck, if you believe the stories, it took Dean playing the guilt trip card on coming back home to get Roy to come back.

As far as replacements, I just don't know. There really isn't an alum sitting in the wings that is the supposed next guy like Roy was. King Rice has done a decent job, but on a big enough stage? I think Lebo was always viewed as the guy for down the road, but he got itchy and made a bad move taking the Auburn job which took a lot of sugar off of his candy. Hause? McGrath if he does well at Wilmington? Could Wes Miller advance his chances in the next few years? Who knows? Maybe Hubert is in head coach training right now. Outside of the family ties I could see a couple of guys that fit the type of personality type that would go over well in Chapel Hill. Maybe Few from Gonzaga would be a fit. Would Jay Wright leave Vill? Maybe Brad Stevens tires of the NBA. He would be a perfect fit.

 

[Tom79]

Read an article, guy out of LA said, in his opinion, as many as 30 coaches or assts. could be out before all this ends...take with huge grain of salt, IMO. As some here have alluded the dark underbelly is ugly.

 

[midline]

You're right --- Wooden was untouchable. Unless someone just came out with documents on Gilbert, that was accepted by the PTB. Now make no mistake, Tark was a total rogue, but yes his image brought him more scrutiny.

Just do a google search for, Sam Gilbert UCLA. Many references to his actions. Good article about him by LA Times in 2010 there. Pretty much says everything. And for years coaches and even businesses, have referenced Woodens "building blocks of success". When in actuality the base brick at the bottom should be that of Sam Gilbert.