Afgan withdraw

[Grayhead]

Is a cluster. People running to the departing planes trying to flee whats coming. Some falling off the plane. Its a shame that this is happening. Rapid withdraw fueling violence. Say what you want, Trump started no wars. Even he knew rapid withdraw was dangerous. Things are much more unstable now the the mean tweeter is gone.

On a side note, i never felt that place was redeemable. They were given a taste of freedom, and ran from it. Trained by the best military in the world. Courage to stand against oppression comes at a cost. They are not willing to pay.
The difference is dying for ones country, or dying because of the country you live in

 

[prlyles]

Anyone old enough to remember the fall of Saigon knew how this would end no matter the POTUS.

 

[gunslingerdick]

no matter the POTUS.

lol

 

[Grayhead]

Anyone old enough to remember the fall of Saigon knew how this would end no matter the POTUS.

Trump said he would pull us out. Obviously he knew to listen to advisors and di it much slower. Biden for the photo op!!!

 

[blazers]

Anyone old enough to remember the fall of Saigon knew how this would end no matter the POTUS.

 

[blazers]

 

[gunslingerdick]

Trump Derangement Syndrome obviously has worse long term effects than COVId.

 

[blazers]

Say what you want, Trump started no wars.

Aside for the war on the US Capitol amirite?

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Anyone old enough to remember the fall of Saigon knew how this would end no matter the POTUS.

Anyone old enough to remember your poasts during the prior administration know you would have pinned this disaster on the commander in chief if it was still #45.

 

[Heelicious]

Aside for the war on the US Capitol amirite?

WaR oN tHe Us CaPiToL

With no weapons, and no protest-related casualties.

What you saw in the last week in Afghanistan was a real insurrection. Thousands will die, and millions of lives (especially Afghan women) will be ruined, abused. So different from some low-level political protest by a bunch of non-violent Boomers.

If you can't tell the difference, seek professional mental help.

 

[tarheel0910]

Anyone old enough to remember the fall of Saigon knew how this would end no matter the POTUS.

Not really. Before this, we had a few thousand troops there providing air support and intelligence. That gave some stabilization to the country. No reason we couldn't have continued that.

 

[tarheel0910]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/opinion/afghanistan-taliban-biden.html

 

[Grayhead]

Aside for the war on the US Capitol amirite?

I dont recall him declaring war dufuss. And if you call that military action, then you are stupid. Zealots, yes. Organized by trump, no. But keep on blaming the angry tweeter, as your choice works to destabilize the middle east as a whole.

Hang in there, strum or boy will rescue you soon

 

[tarheel0910]

The good news is China is already moving in. They have already discussed helping the Taliban with their belt and road program. So, now China will have a new ally in the middle east. Works out well for us long term.

 

[blazers]

Not really. Before this, we had a few thousand troops there providing air support and intelligence. That gave some stabilization to the country. No reason we couldn't have continued that.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't our withdrawal broadcast since early 2020? May 1, 2021 was the date we gave Taliban/Afghanistan as part of some agreement in Feb 2020.

Were things "stable" with just 2,400 because that number of troops were a show or force or because the Taliban was told throughout 2020 that withdrawal was imminent and they were biding their time?

Those few thousand remaining staff had only dwindled to that low of a number because they were part of the planned drawdown that the Taliban were expecting.

Feb 2020 we had 13,000 troops, not far from our max of 15,000 in Sept 2018.

As soon as we signaled to Taliban that our withdrawal was no longer happening, they'd just drag us back into war with more troops. 2,400 Americans have died in the Afghanistan war.

 

[blazers]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/opinion/afghanistan-taliban-biden.html

"But is there any reason we should care more about the fate of Afghans than we do of desperate people elsewhere? Yes, because our inability to help everyone, everywhere doesn’t relieve us of the obligation to help someone, somewhere"

We've been there 20 yrs. Nation-building isn't going to happen there. If we're going to do permanent police-state, baby-sitting or nation-building we should probably do it somewhere other than Afghanistan. It sucks for the people of that country, but there are sucky things for people of our own country (and we decided we want to be a police-state there are many other countries that have a better chance of stabilizing).

 

[tarheel0910]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't our withdrawal broadcast since early 2020? May 1, 2021 was the date we gave Taliban/Afghanistan as part of some agreement in Feb 2020.

Were things "stable" with just 2,400 because that number of troops were a show or force or because the Taliban was told throughout 2020 that withdrawal was imminent and they were biding their time?

Those few thousand remaining staff had only dwindled to that low of a number because they were part of the planned drawdown that the Taliban were expecting.

Feb 2020 we had 13,000 troops, not far from our max of 15,000 in Sept 2018.

As soon as we signaled to Taliban that our withdrawal was no longer happening, they'd just drag us back into war with more troops. 2,400 Americans have died in the Afghanistan war.

You could have saved yourself a lot of time by just saying it was all Trump's fault. That's what you really wanted to say. But let's just ignore how wonderful the withdrawal is going right now. People literally holding onto plans trying to escape.

 

[tarheel0910]

"But is there any reason we should care more about the fate of Afghans than we do of desperate people elsewhere? Yes, because our inability to help everyone, everywhere doesn’t relieve us of the obligation to help someone, somewhere"

We've been there 20 yrs. Nation-building isn't going to happen there. If we're going to do permanent police-state, baby-sitting or nation-building we should probably do it somewhere other than Afghanistan. It sucks for the people of that country, but there are sucky things for people of our own country (and we decided we want to be a police-state there are many other countries that have a better chance of stabilizing).

You clearly don't understand geopolitics. But by all means, keep ignoring how we pulled out and how it's working.

 

[blazers]

You could have saved yourself a lot of time by just saying it was all Trump's fault. That's what you really wanted to say. But let's just ignore how wonderful the withdrawal is going right now. People literally holding onto plans trying to escape.

You are dodging the question and I'm not blaming Trump. I think the withdrawal is a good thing overall, even though painful.

If I was going to blame anyone it would be Bush, followed by Obama (He had 8 yrs). Trump actually got really close the line of withdrawal.

Again, our perma-presence would've ballooned back up into the teens of thousands if we weren't on a withdrawal plan. How long would you want to keep that up?

 

[uncboy10]

You are dodging the question and I'm not blaming Trump. I think the withdrawal is a good thing overall, even though painful.

If I was going to blame anyone it would be Bush, followed by Obama (He had 8 yrs). Trump actually got really close the line of withdrawal.

Again, our perma-presence would've ballooned back up into the teens of thousands if we weren't on a withdrawal plan. How long would you want to keep that up?

As long as it takes to stop little girls from having acid thrown in their faces for trying to go to school.

 

[tarheel0910]

You are dodging the question and I'm not blaming Trump. I think the withdrawal is a good thing overall, even though painful.

If I was going to blame anyone it would be Bush, followed by Obama (He had 8 yrs). Trump actually got really close the line of withdrawal.

Again, our perma-presence would've ballooned back up into the teens of thousands if we weren't on a withdrawal plan. How long would you want to keep that up?

What question is that? If anyone is dodging anything, it's you in your refusal to admit that Biden has screwed up this withdrawal. All you want to do is talk about what Trump did. And it didn't have to balloon back up. All it took was a few thousand to provide intelligence and drop some bombs every now and then.

 

[blazers]

As long as it takes to stop little girls from having acid thrown in their faces for trying to go to school.

Is that the only country that has atrocities?

4000+ Americans died, ~200 per yr. 20,000 have been injured, some shot in the face.

Will our presence ever make a permanent difference despite the money we're pouring and the 200 deaths per yr on average?

For 20 yrs we've been trying to get Afghans to take care of Afghanistan, but they can't or don't want to help themselves, many of them don't even want the US there. They aren't willing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

 

[tarheel0910]

As long as it takes to stop little girls from having acid thrown in their faces for trying to go to school.

I like how they've released statements saying they won't be as brutal this time around. I guess that means they will only beat them instead of throwing acid on them.

 

[blazers]

What question is that? If anyone is dodging anything, it's you in your refusal to admit that Biden has screwed up this withdrawal. All you want to do is talk about what Trump did. And it didn't have to balloon back up. All it took was a few thousand to provide intelligence and drop some bombs every now and then.

It would balloon as soon as the Taliban realized we weren't actually withdrawing. The question was how long you wanted to keep 10,000+ boots on the ground and continue dumping money.

As for screw-up, how would you have improved the withdrawal?

 

[tarheel0910]

It would balloon as soon as the Taliban realized we weren't actually withdrawing. The question was how long you wanted to keep 10,000+ boots on the ground and continue dumping money.

No reason for it to have ballooned. You just don't understand how this type of stuff works. We haven't even begun to discuss the long lasting political ramifications of this. China is already moving in on Afghanistan. That's about the worst case possible. Having a country like China backing a terrorist state. Again, you obviously don't understand how this works. Leave this convo for the adults in the room.

 

[blazers]

No reason for it to have ballooned. You just don't understand how this type of stuff works. We haven't even begun to discuss the long lasting political ramifications of this. China is already moving in on Afghanistan. That's about the worst case possible. Having a country like China backing a terrorist state. Again, you obviously don't understand how this works. Leave this convo for the adults in the room.

Our Troop presence slowly increased almost every yr from yr 1 thru 18. Now it took just weeks for chaos to ensue. You're delusional if you think 2,500 would've been enough long-term once the Taliban realized we weren't living up to the Feb 2020 US-Taliban "deal".

We can blame Joe for pulling the trigger, but the root weaknesses in Afghanistan (and strengths of Taliban) were going to end in either immediate horrible pain we're seeing now, or drawn-out pain with horrible pain later. Even with 10,000+ plus troops record-breaking deaths were happening among Afghan citizens and troops.

"For years, the Taliban had prepared the ground for this final battle. Taliban forces established deep footprints and eventual control in districts around the country, including near cities – thereby positioning themselves for the urban offensives of recent days. They amassed large quantities of heavy weaponry seized from Afghan forces. They diversified their sources of financing beyond the drug trade, making a wealthy armed group even richer. The Taliban’s current advances did not come out of nowhere."

"back in March, weeks before Biden announced the withdrawal, the Taliban controlled more territory than at any time since US forces entered the country."

 

[uncboy10]

Is that the only country that has atrocities?

4000+ Americans died, ~200 per yr. 20,000 have been injured, some shot in the face.

Will our presence ever make a permanent difference despite the money we're pouring and the 200 deaths per yr on average?

For 20 yrs we've been trying to get Afghans to take care of Afghanistan, but they can't or don't want to help themselves, many of them don't even want the US there. They aren't willing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

Who said it's the only country with atrocities? And why would that matter?

I'm not big on the sunk cost fallacy, but lots of military members who served over there seem to be frustrated that their sacrifices have been essentially wiped out by one stupid decision that handed the country back over to a terrorist group that would love nothing more than to destroy western civilization after they destroy Afghanistan.

Nobody can know the answer to that question, but we do know what kind of difference our absence is making and it's only been like 48 hours.

 

[tarheel0910]

Our Troop presence slowly increased almost every yr from yr 1 thru 18. Now it took just weeks for chaos to ensue. You're delusional if you think 2,500 would've been enough long-term once the Taliban realized we weren't living up to the Feb 2020 US-Taliban "deal".

We can blame Joe for pulling the trigger, but the root weaknesses in Afghanistan (and strengths of Taliban) were going to end in either immediate horrible pain we're seeing now, or drawn-out pain with horrible pain later. Even with 10,000+ plus troops record-breaking deaths were happening among Afghan citizens and troops.

"For years, the Taliban had prepared the ground for this final battle. Taliban forces established deep footprints and eventual control in districts around the country, including near cities – thereby positioning themselves for the urban offensives of recent days. They amassed large quantities of heavy weaponry seized from Afghan forces. They diversified their sources of financing beyond the drug trade, making a wealthy armed group even richer. The Taliban’s current advances did not come out of nowhere."

"back in March, weeks before Biden announced the withdrawal, the Taliban controlled more territory than at any time since US forces entered the country."

Again, you show your ignorance on the subject. You also continue to ignore how this withdrawal was handled over the past few weeks. It's been a ridiculous failure. You also ignore the long term consequences of completely abandoning them. That's actually probably a good thing, because you appear not to understand what's happening.

 

[blazers]

Who said it's the only country with atrocities? And why would that matter?

I'm not big on the sunk cost fallacy, but lots of military members who served over there seem to be frustrated that their sacrifices have been essentially wiped out by one stupid decision that handed the country back over to a terrorist group that would love nothing more than to destroy western civilization after they destroy Afghanistan.

Nobody can know the answer to that question, but we do not what kind of difference our absence is making and it's only been like 48 hours.

It matters because we could put our money and US lives where it makes more of a long-term difference, whether the goal is women's rights or geo stability or both.

We knew this shit would happen, it's the reason why the decision has been kicked down the road since mid-2000's when realized we shouldn't be there.

 

[prlyles]

Trump got the ball rolling and I give him credit for that, it was the right thing for Trump to do. The end was going to be like this no matter. Just look at the fall of Saigon.

 

[blazers]

Again, you show your ignorance on the subject. You also continue to ignore how this withdrawal was handled over the past few weeks. It's been a ridiculous failure. You also ignore the long term consequences of completely abandoning them. That's actually probably a good thing, because you appear not to understand what's happening.

The handling definitely sucked. "Intelligence" predicted months til chaos, not days or weeks. Biden owns responsibility for this. He could've easily put this off onto the next presidency, postponing the inevitable unless we want to be there for eternity.

But again, you're crazy if you think 2.500 wouldn't have to balloon back to 10k plus once the Taliban learned we broke the "deal".

 

[blazers]

Even Pakistan, who knows a Taliban controlled Afghanistan is bad for them, has said that us pulling the plug was the logical thing to do.

 

[uncboy10]

It matters because we could put our money and US lives where it makes more of a long-term difference, whether the goal is women's rights or geo stability or both.

We knew this shit would happen, it's the reason why the decision has been kicked down the road since mid-2000's when realized we shouldn't be there.

Idk if you’ve seen our military budget but we can afford to be in multiple places at once.

 

[blazers]

Idk if you’ve seen our military budget but we can afford to be in multiple places at once.

deficit shmeficit

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

We can blame Joe for pulling the trigger

Can we? Cuz you seem to be deflecting to anything but that. Just take the fuggin L and move on...

 

[blazers]

Can we? Cuz you seem to be deflecting to anything but that. Just take the fuggin L and move on...

Is everyone bemoaning the outcome or just finger-pointing? The outcome sucks AND it should've happened long ago AND it would be the same regardless of which pres took the action.

 

[uncboy10]

deficit shmeficit

Oh yeah I'm sure we'll cut the DoD budget any day now.

 

[bleeduncblue]

Aside for the war on the US Capitol amirite?

funny thing is, THAT would constitute a "war" to the libtard pussies in this country.

 

[UNC '92]

Is everyone bemoaning the outcome or just finger-pointing? The outcome sucks AND it should've happened long ago AND it would be the same regardless of which pres took the action.

As usual, you are incorrect in your assumptions. No President except yours had us running out of Kabul in the middle of the night leaving our assets and fortified positions in place. Only the most partisan believe things would have gone down this way no matter what.

 

[bleeduncblue]

my gawd, imagine if TRUMP had made the decisions that caused people to hang onto departing planes?????