TarHeelIllustrated - AJ: Not Much of a Secret Why Carolina Lost Saturday
ATLANTA – Hubert Davis said it himself.He didn’t mince words. He didn’t pause to think of the best way to answer the
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AJ: Not Much of a Secret Why Carolina Lost Saturday
- Thread starter andrew jones
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Start Withers even if it is just to play defense. He does not need to score with Ingram, Davis, Ryan and Bacot offering plenty of scoring. Cadeau will be a star but right now he is not contributing much offensively or defensively and he is foul prone. I suggest try Withers and see how it goes then get Cadeau back into the lineup in January…
Totally disagree. Overreaction.
Try throwing the ball.inside to start the games. Getting your big man active.
Which will help our offensive rebounding..
Basketball 101
Basketball 101 says you CANNOT let the opponents have 18 more shots than you get and have 18 offensive rebounds which gives them shot after shot to score. Defense wins games. Case closed
Yeah thats why you pound it inside.
We have one tall player. You are going to get out rebounded. You cant turn it over when you lose the rebound battle.
And we missed easy rebounds on top of that at the end.
All that and Kentucky barely won. .
Lots of overreaction.
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Let's keep some perspective, for this Ky game as well as the other losses so far this season. We have lost to some really really strong teams and in every one of our loses we were right there at the end. So far, looks to me like there are 4 teams that are a slight level above in Kansas, Purdue, Uconn, and Arizona. Just below that top level there are several teams, UNC in my opinion is there along with the likes of duke and Ky, Marquette, Houston, Tenn and a few others.
I think that was differs us from being in that top tier is 2 really hard to solve issues, Issues that IMO begin with our just not having a real rim protector. Bacot is a very good college 5 but truth is he is just not that extremely athletic guy that plays above the rim, not that guy that erases mistakes made in our back court.
Second, we start a really small duo in our back court and neither defend well and with no rim protector to erase their mistakes we end up really struggling to get key stops. I think we have to start them both and they get starter level minutes. I do think we make our selves smaller than we need to and that to me is reflected in our struggles to rebound the ball.
Ask yourself the same question I have been asking since well before pre-season. Why do you go so artificially small and know you are giving up the rebound stats, primarily because you are going so small and then wonder why you are being scored on and losing the rebounding stats, especially late in games? Guys, this isn't complicated, you sacrifice rebounds, you allow natural size mismatches for shooting and the fact is so far we have not had consistent shooting. Ryan has been inconsistent so far, Ingram's game is limited by having to deal with big 4s, harder to back down and score over a 4 than a 3. Of course I want Ingram at the 3 and of course I want Ryan coming off the bench as primary back up to BOTH the 2 and the 3, which BTW is starter minutes.
The problem with that is who do we play at the 4, Jalen struggles to defend but he does score and he actually does rebound in the few mins he gets. Withers has been disappointing so far, just way to many cheap fouls and really poor decisions with the ball, he has all the ability but his BBall IQ just does not look good. Maybe High could fit in there more, he is thin but shows a strong motor, kid has some grit to his game. I would go with Jalen right now, he gives me some really solid positives where with Wit and High not sure they are able to give us a strong positive aspect. Bacot, Jalen at the 4, Ingram at the 3 all the sudden we are not so small, we have a trio of bigs that can block some shots and cover the boards as well as cover for some of the mistakes coming from our back court. It feels as if at times we are trying to play with one arm tied behind our backs and we simply do not need to?
I think that was differs us from being in that top tier is 2 really hard to solve issues, Issues that IMO begin with our just not having a real rim protector. Bacot is a very good college 5 but truth is he is just not that extremely athletic guy that plays above the rim, not that guy that erases mistakes made in our back court.
Second, we start a really small duo in our back court and neither defend well and with no rim protector to erase their mistakes we end up really struggling to get key stops. I think we have to start them both and they get starter level minutes. I do think we make our selves smaller than we need to and that to me is reflected in our struggles to rebound the ball.
Ask yourself the same question I have been asking since well before pre-season. Why do you go so artificially small and know you are giving up the rebound stats, primarily because you are going so small and then wonder why you are being scored on and losing the rebounding stats, especially late in games? Guys, this isn't complicated, you sacrifice rebounds, you allow natural size mismatches for shooting and the fact is so far we have not had consistent shooting. Ryan has been inconsistent so far, Ingram's game is limited by having to deal with big 4s, harder to back down and score over a 4 than a 3. Of course I want Ingram at the 3 and of course I want Ryan coming off the bench as primary back up to BOTH the 2 and the 3, which BTW is starter minutes.
The problem with that is who do we play at the 4, Jalen struggles to defend but he does score and he actually does rebound in the few mins he gets. Withers has been disappointing so far, just way to many cheap fouls and really poor decisions with the ball, he has all the ability but his BBall IQ just does not look good. Maybe High could fit in there more, he is thin but shows a strong motor, kid has some grit to his game. I would go with Jalen right now, he gives me some really solid positives where with Wit and High not sure they are able to give us a strong positive aspect. Bacot, Jalen at the 4, Ingram at the 3 all the sudden we are not so small, we have a trio of bigs that can block some shots and cover the boards as well as cover for some of the mistakes coming from our back court. It feels as if at times we are trying to play with one arm tied behind our backs and we simply do not need to?
You read all that?
Carolina scored fewer points. 4 words. I'll cut it in half... Seventeen turnovers.
I think this is a pretty large overreaction. If you're making this change, you better hope that Withers can provide something enough offensively where teams have to at least guard him. If he turns out to be a 0 offensively, then the other 4 starters are going to suffer. Also, I know that the RJ led group played well enough without Cadeau, but we've seen the RJ PG movie before. The offense will suffer with him being the lead guard over an extended sample size.
Can I just ask that Bacot play better and be more of a factor on the boards on each end? Then some of those problems will get resolved just through your most decorated player playing better.
Also... I think a big part of our expectations were due to the lofty expectations that Elliot Cadeau had. There was A LOT of "generational point guard." There were a lot of comparisons to Jason Kidd at the top end and Kendall Marshall/Joel Berry at the bottom end. Now how a comparison to Joel Berry equates to a generational point guard is something I'm still scratching my head over. But the fact is, Cadeau is a talented freshman point guard who has some glaring flaws in his game... You know, like every other non-generational freshman PG.
So maybe the expectations for this team should be lowered a little bit. This team is not going to be as good as it currently is with RJ running the point. It sure isn't going to be good as anyone hoped they would be if RJ is running the point. Cadeau, RJ, Ingram, Withers/Washington, Bacot is the better lineup change but I for one wouldn't go that route. This team needs to score to win and be good situationally defensively. I wouldn't mess with a starting lineup that can really score the ball.
First realize that many, I know myself included, felt and still feel Cadeau has a chance to become just what you allege, a generational PG. But the kid is still a freshman, he is a freshman that played 3 years of high school ball. It doesn't matter how old he is he still has played less high school ball than the typical kid coming from high school to college. I actually do see some Jason Kidd in his game, I prefer a Ed Cota comparison but to each their own. I actually do agree with you in that I do not in any way see a comparison to Joel Berry, in my view those 2 could not be more different, it is like comparing Bacot to Shaq? Fact is Cadeau is pretty much exactly what I thought he would be, an extremely talented FRESHMAN PG that is focused on getting his team mates the ball in scoring position and not first instinct to go look for his own scoring. That is not only what I expected him to be it is exactly what I want him to be, I see no reason to down grade this team simply because Cadeau is not scoring 20 a game or as a freshman not able to defend like Leaky Black?
The Kendal comparison stuff, I don't get that one, again, they are similar mindsets but 2 very different types of players. Kendal did use a extremely strong basketball IQ, I do believe Cadeau has that great BBall IQ as well but Kendal was a big PG, he was not at all quick or fast, his ability to see over his defenders, to play over the top of defenders, and his ability to change up his dribble allowed him a positional advantage that he was really adept at using. Cadeau on the other hand combines his big time BBall IQ with amazing quickness and creativity to achieve the same end. IN other words, they get the same things done but they do so in VERY different ways. Where they are similar is that they are BOTH pass first PGs. The Joel Berry thing, gonna piss someone off maybe several by saying this but Joel was not as much a pass first PG as he was a PG that looked to score primarily. Yes, he would get us in to our breaks, which was not the case for the last 3years with RJ or Caleb running the point but he was looking to score before pass in the half court, actually Theo had more assists than Joel way to often. Joel has great success, no denying that, you can't be our starting PG and play in back to back Natty games, leave with a ring and not be a great player but I see Joel as having been much more RJ than Cadeau.
YES, this TEAM needs to score because NO this team is not going to be known as a defensive first team, our best defender comes off the bench and most would consider him our 4th in line in our back court. So of course this team will have to lead with it's offense and hope to get enough stops, had you rather be UVa and be all defense? This team was assembled to be more of a high scoring group rather than a group focused on hitting the boards and playing in your face hard defense, show me 1 single guy that was brought in for his defensive ability? Since Hubert has been head coach, is there a single player he has brought in from the portal that was brought in and got basically any playing time that was known as a defensive specialist? Actually the closest thing to that may be Okonkwo and he is rotting on our bench, when was the last time he got on the court? LOL
LMAO at the Cadeau-as-savior overhype that was bandied about on these boards. I posted somewhere that I just hoped he didn't trip over his cape. Well, he's tripping over his cape, just as reason would predict that he might. Cadeau is not a letdown or to blame though. He's just one factor among many. Your comment about Bacot in particular strikes me as being maybe more relevant.
Some might be offended here by my current comparison. Current... So what I've seen from Elliot Cadeau until now... His NBA comp for me is Ricky Rubio. Rubio has more length. But I think they have similar skills. Pass first point guards, limited scoring capability. Cadeau will do well to get to Rubio's level defensively which was probably above average for his position during his prime. Rubio couldn't carry a franchise but he can be a solid starter for the right kind of team.
The Jason Kidd comps were something else, lol. Jason Kidd averaged 18.7 PPG at the peak of his NBA powers. He had 5 seasons where he averaged over 15 PPG. People think Kidd was like a 9 PPG/9 RPG/9 APG guy.... He was a 15-18 PPG guy during his scoring prime. He's also top 5 in NBA history at 3-point makes if I recall correctly. It's offensive to J-Kidd honestly, lol. The Kendall Marshall comps never made sense. Kendall was a 6'5" giant PG.
If I'm given a choice between a team that can score and not get stops vs the opposite, I'll take what we have when it comes to those extremes. I actually like our team. Hopefully, they improve situationally and can get maybe 2 good spurts of defense per game. A couple 3 minute periods per game where they hold the opposition without a FG.
I think we're one scorer short. I hope that can eventually be Cadeau for a consistent 10-13 PPG. Would love to have one more big separate with consistency. Hopefully, Withers or Washington will eventually take that opportunity.
Cadeau so far has played against one and ONLY 1 conference foe and yet you down grade him for not playing right now today like great NBA players? Trying to have a serious discussion man, can we cut out the silly stuff please? You know as well as I do that if someone says they see a certain trait that reminds them of a great player that it in no way says that kid will become just like that great NBA player. Now you know that but still bring that straw man nonsense? You ARE better than that...
Ok, let's make it like-for-like. Jason Kidd averaged 13.0 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 7.7 AST, 3.8 SPG as a freshman in college. Long way to go there. If Cadeau were anything like freshman Jason Kidd, UNC would be a top 3 team in the country, lol.
And I'm not knocking Cadeau. I think he's fine and you want to see flashes early on. Then you want to see some consistency. This is the general path of a talented freshman point guard.
But as of now, it's not really debatable that he isn't the best freshman PG in the conference. Carlton Carrington's been a lot more productive and better. His efficiency is starting to regress a bit, but he's been extremely productive and pretty polished right away. Carrington is also like 9 months younger than Cadeau.
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