Big 10 about to add more very soon?

[DaveChapelle]

It's funny to see the hot takes and rumors on social media, and the "insiders" and "writers" who are driving the conversation mainly to get more twitter interactions and more hits on their various websites and blogs.

First it was "FSU is definitely filing paperwork to leave the ACC by Wednesday." Then it was "FSU is going to sue the ACC for fraud." Then it was "FSU's boosters will just pay the exit fees." Today I'm seeing a lot of "FSU is all bark, if they could leave they already would have."

As days pass, more and more people are realizing the GoR is functioning exactly like all the ACC schools wanted it to back in 2012.

 

[dtodd4475]

Ah, so your saying the threats over leaving because of the Articles of Confederation was enough, because they never actually left, but it did lead to the Constitional Convention which threw out the A of C and created the new U.S. Constitution.

Maybe FSU is the ACC's Shay's Rebellion trying to force the GoR "convention".

 

[tarheel0910]

GoR is a major hurdle as long as the conference exists. My understanding is that it only takes a majority of the teams (8) to vote to dissolve. If 7 are actually considering options they only need to pull in one more. No conference then no GoR issue.

I don't think it's if the ACC will end but when. Just too much $$$ to be made elsewhere.

That's correct. The ACC is considered a non profit, so only needs a majority to dissolve under NC law. The problem with that is those teams need a place to go. Many of those eight teams probably wouldn't get an invite to another P5 or if they did it would be a Big 12 invite, which would be less money.

 

[dtodd4475]

It's funny to see the hot takes and rumors on social media, and the "insiders" and "writers" who are driving the conversation mainly to get more twitter interactions and more hits on their various websites and blogs.

First it was "FSU is definitely filing paperwork to leave the ACC by Wednesday." Then it was "FSU is going to sue the ACC for fraud." Then it was "FSU's boosters will just pay the exit fees." Today I'm seeing a lot of "FSU is all bark, if they could leave they already would have."

As days pass, more and more people are realizing the GoR is functioning exactly like all the ACC schools wanted it to back in 2012.

The majority of Pac12 schools have called emergency regent meetings. A couple for tonight. Pac12 looks done. Waiting for the dominoes to start to tumble.

If the ACC does not go to the table I agree the FSU'S and others are stymied for the time being, but they will just attack the place keeping them from within. Just creating a dysfunctional league.It is a lose lose situation for the conference. I think they will go to the table at some point.

It's the Duke's Wake's Pitt's etc. that are ass out. Just like Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota's are not happy about the new expanding more west in the Big 10. Going to have to work things out though. After the Pac 12 implodes here shortly things will be on the table . 👀

 

[tarheel0910]

The majority of Pac12 schools have called emergency regent meetings. A couple for tonight. Pac12 looks done. Waiting for the dominoes to start to tumble.

If the ACC does not go to the table I agree the FSU'S and others are stymied for the time being, but they will just attack the place keeping them from within. Just creating a dysfunctional league.It is a lose lose situation for the conference. I think they will go to the table at some point.

It's the Duke's Wake's Pitt's etc. that are ass out. Just like Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota's are not happy about the new expanding more west in the Big 10. Going to have to work things out though. After the Pac 12 implodes here shortly things will be on the table . 👀

I think the ACC should beat the Big 10 to the table and offer Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal. That would allow us to renegotiate our current contract. The addition of those teams wouldn't bring in Big 10 or SEC money, but it at least gives the ACC some additional money. Washington and Oregon aren't going to get a full share in the Big, so maybe the ACC could get close enough to get them.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

That's correct. The ACC is considered a non profit, so only needs a majority to dissolve under NC law. The problem with that is those teams need a place to go. Many of those eight teams probably wouldn't get an invite to another P5 or if they did it would be a Big 12 invite, which would be less money.

Certain teams have been dragging the ACC down. If they're the ones who have to settle for a lesser conference, it's hard to feel too sad for them.

As a fan who cares a lot about basketball and not much about football, I hate that the ACC will be dismembered because of football. But it is what it is.

 

[tarheel0910]

Certain teams have been dragging the ACC down. If they're the ones who have to settle for a lesser conference, it's hard to feel too sad for them.

As a fan who cares a lot about basketball and not much about football, I hate that the ACC will be dismembered because of football. But it is what it is.

I agree, but I wasn't talking about teams like WF and BC. They wouldn't want to dissolve the conference. Teams like moo want out in theory, but in reality they won't be able to do any better than the ACC. The SEC isn't going to come to their rescue.

 

[Acc1950]

FSU has only one winning football season in the last 5 years and last years basketball team was probably their worst in the past 5-10 years ( good in softball I guess). Clemson’s football team last year was probably their worst over the past 8-10 years. Not sure they would add much value to another conference right now.

 

[tarheel0910]

FSU has only one winning football season in the last 5 years and last years basketball team was probably their worst in the past 5-10 years ( good in softball I guess). Clemson’s football team last year was probably their worst over the past 8-10 years. Not sure they would add much value to another conference right now.

It's about brand and ratings, not results. FSU and Clemson are at the top of the conference for viewership and only behind us for brand value.

 

[WhatTheHeel?]

I agree, but I wasn't talking about teams like WF and BC. They wouldn't want to dissolve the conference. Teams like moo want out in theory, but in reality they won't be able to do any better than the ACC. The SEC isn't going to come to their rescue.

I'm not sure that Wake's football resume hasn't been better than UNCs the last 5-10 years. I wouldn't say they've been a team dragging down the ACC in terms of on field performance.

Though they certainly don't have the fan base that UNC does.

 

[tarheel0910]

I'm not sure that Wake's football resume hasn't been better than UNCs the last 5-10 years. I wouldn't say they've been a team dragging down the ACC in terms of on field performance.

Though they certainly don't have the fan base that UNC does.

Like I've said earlier in the thread, performance doesn't matter. Viewership numbers and brand value are key. Schools like WF and Boston College add nothing in both of those areas.

 

[captain3jack]

Considering how many bad football seasons FSU has had recently, it's kind of funny to hear these various FSU guys talking like FSU is this amazing school that deserves a bigger share of the ACC pie.

I've already accepted the idea that the ACC is going to disintegrate around 2036. I would absolutely love it if FSU was stupid enough to try to leave now, forfeiting like a billion dollars to the ACC over the next 13 years. That would just mean UNC gets a lot more money over the next 13 years. But I suspect the lawyers will advise FSU against it after years of looking for a hole in the GoR that doesn't exist.

Still... every day the news reports something new and incredibly stupid coming out of the state of Florida. Hence the "Florida Man" meme. So I suppose there is at least a small chance FSU will make an insanely dumb decision to break the GoR and bankrupt their athletic department.

You have to be joking. FSU has dominated football in the ACC for most of its membership in the ACC. They have a NC in 13. Only two programs in the ACC have the right to ask for more money based on historical performance.

 

[dtodd4475]

Certain teams have been dragging the ACC down. If they're the ones who have to settle for a lesser conference, it's hard to feel too sad for them.

As a fan who cares a lot about basketball and not much about football, I hate that the ACC will be dismembered because of football. But it is what it is.

It may not be that far away that football just separates itself from the rest of the sports as a entity of it's own. Too much money flowing in comparatively to the other sports, including basketball. They may have separate conferences, affiliactions, money sharing, etc. from the rest of their athletics. Big buisness !!!!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

It may not be that far away that football just separates itself from the rest of the sports as a entity of it's own. Too much money flowing in comparatively to the other sports, including basketball. They may have separate conferences, affiliactions, money sharing, etc. from the rest of their athletics. Big buisness !!!!

So . . . UNC could belong to the ABC football conference, and also to the DEF basketball conference, and also to the GHI baseball conference, and so on?

Something like that?

I've never heard this idea before, but I'm not hating it.

Obviously that would be good for the football schools, or they wouldn't think about going that way. But it seems like it could also be good for basketball and other sports, too.

I would happily pay for a DEF Conference package to just watch basketball.

I watch every available UNC basketball game. I watch parts of 20+ other ACC BB games and maybe the same number of non-ACC BB games.

I watch fewer than a dozen football games each year. I would watch more UNC games if they were better and broadcast where I can record them

 

[dtodd4475]

So . . . UNC could belong to the ABC football conference, and also to the DEF basketball conference, and also to the GHI baseball conference, and so on?

Something like that?

I've never heard this idea before, but I'm not hating it.

Obviously that would be good for the football schools, or they wouldn't think about going that way. But it seems like it could also be good for basketball and other sports, too.

I would happily pay for a DEF Conference package to just watch basketball.

I watch every available UNC basketball game. I watch parts of 20+ other ACC BB games and maybe the same number of non-ACC BB games.

I watch fewer than a dozen football games each year. I would watch more UNC games if they were better and broadcast where I can record them

Was hearing a sports talk segment on this on my commute home basically saying that is where it is going already, that is the "end game" of the SEC/BIG10, maybe Big12 and ACC can consolidate to make a 3rd power broker in this process. The mega conferences, or individual schools are already making all the deals, controlling the money no need for NCAA input. The major football programs will separate and control all aspects. The other teams can remain under NCAA if they wish as sort of a tier 2 level

The other sports including basketball would continue in the current system. Almost like having the Alabama football club or UNC football club acting as separate entities from the rest of the University.

 

[dtodd4475]

Looks like Oregon, Washington, California, and Stanford could be a done deal for Big10 expansion. Big 10 media deal was already 7 billion for the next 7 years. Now ESPN wants in and will add another billion to make it 8 billion total for the rights to air the late night west coast Big10 games, including Friday night games.

ESPN's timetable might be a problem though, because they are about to pay a fortune to keep the booming NBA rights first.

 

[dtodd4475]

Oregon and Washington playing hard ball, want a larger portion, B1G not budging. I have to believe the ACC is not just sitting on their thumbs saying we stand pat. Or at least I hope they are not.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Was hearing a sports talk segment on this on my commute home basically saying that is where it is going already, that is the "end game" of the SEC/BIG10, maybe Big12 and ACC can consolidate to make a 3rd power broker in this process. The mega conferences, or individual schools are already making all the deals, controlling the money no need for NCAA input. The major football programs will separate and control all aspects. The other teams can remain under NCAA if they wish as sort of a tier 2 level

The other sports including basketball would continue in the current system. Almost like having the Alabama football club or UNC football club acting as separate entities from the rest of the University.

What would be the point of something like that? Like, why continue to have any attachment to schools at that point? Why not just end any affiliation with universities and come up with professional franchises in those same communities? The idea of student athlete would not exist so why continue the facade?

 

[dtodd4475]

What would be the point of something like that? Like, why continue to have any attachment to schools at that point? Why not just end any affiliation with universities and come up with professional franchises in those same communities? The idea of student athlete would not exist so why continue the facade?

I guess the idea is why not continue the facade? Hell, schools have been doing it to varying degrees for a century. It is a good buisness vehicle for the product. The connection to the schools increases the product loyalty ?

 

[dtodd4475]

What would be the point of something like that? Like, why continue to have any attachment to schools at that point? Why not just end any affiliation with universities and come up with professional franchises in those same communities? The idea of student athlete would not exist so why continue the facade?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...gQFnoECC4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw36UczljWhw4U_Kj9oIW3p3


This is much the same decision the U. of Chicago had along with the Ivy leagues a century ago. This case study does an excellent job of detailing how these type decisions are nothing new with college football big buisness moves.

 

[DaveChapelle]

Oregon and Washington playing hard ball, want a larger portion, B1G not budging. I have to believe the ACC is not just sitting on their thumbs saying we stand pat. Or at least I hope they are not.

Unless I'm mistaken, if the ACC were to add any more schools it would reopen the TV contract and give current ACC schools a much easier path to leave.

 

[DaveChapelle]

Also the Big Ten just looks ridiculous now. A conference that spans from Maryland and New Jersey all the way to California and the Pacific NW. That travel is going to be tough, particularly on student athletes in the many non-revenue sports.

When the ACC collapses around 2036, I had been hoping UNC would join the Big Ten bc their conference is a better fit academically and bc that conference is a home to several sports UNC has that the SEC does not. But I'd hate to see UNC's athletes being forced to travel all over the country in conference play. I guess the SEC is probably the better fit even if they don't take academics seriously and we'll be a doormat in football.

 

[DaveChapelle]

How would you guys feel about 11 pm tip-offs for conference basjetball games? Maryland is about to find out.

 

[tarheel0910]

Was hearing a sports talk segment on this on my commute home basically saying that is where it is going already, that is the "end game" of the SEC/BIG10, maybe Big12 and ACC can consolidate to make a 3rd power broker in this process. The mega conferences, or individual schools are already making all the deals, controlling the money no need for NCAA input. The major football programs will separate and control all aspects. The other teams can remain under NCAA if they wish as sort of a tier 2 level

The other sports including basketball would continue in the current system. Almost like having the Alabama football club or UNC football club acting as separate entities from the rest of the University.

I've thought for a while that something like this would be the best way to go. Basically just separate football and sell the rights to games just like you would for the NFL. Split base revenue equally among the P4 schools and have performance based bonuses. The other sports can stay in a conference format.

 

[tarheel0910]

Oregon and Washington playing hard ball, want a larger portion, B1G not budging. I have to believe the ACC is not just sitting on their thumbs saying we stand pat. Or at least I hope they are not.

They shouldn't be standing pat. They should be making a counter offer since adding them increases the value of the conference and allows for a renegotiated contract. That would require the ACC to be forward thinking, though. Something it hasn't been good at for the past 20 years.

 

[dtodd4475]

Unless I'm mistaken, if the ACC were to add any more schools it would reopen the TV contract and give current ACC schools a much easier path to leave.

Yep, they are in between a rock and a hard place. They have to start being realistic.

 

[dtodd4475]

It's going to be interesting to see the revenue share negotiation results, but suppose to be formally sent for Washington & Oregon within the hour.

Arizona, Az. State, Utah formally in process to join Big12. How long before Stanford and Cal join B1G in the next segment of thier west coast expansion.

Meanwhile back at the ranch... crickets 🦗

 

[tarheel0910]

Yep, they are in between a rock and a hard place. They have to start being realistic.

Not so sure about that. I was thinking the GofR contract was separate from the TV contract. I don't think ESPN has anything to do with it. The years are just the same.

 

[Rabidfrog]

Well it is Pac12 is basically now dead

 

[DaveChapelle]

Yep, they are in between a rock and a hard place. They have to start being realistic.

There is only one path forward. We enjoy our rivalries until we get closer to 2036, then the whole thing falls apart and we go join some mega conference and ruin pretty much everything that was still good about college sports.

 

[DaveChapelle]

It's going to be interesting to see the revenue share negotiation results, but suppose to be formally sent for Washington & Oregon within the hour.

Arizona, Az. State, Utah formally in process to join Big12. How long before Stanford and Cal join B1G in the next segment of thier west coast expansion.

Meanwhile back at the ranch... crickets 🦗

Stanford doesn't seem to have a seat at the table for the B1G.

Think about that for a second. Stanford is the most successful athletic department in the country. They have won the Learfield Director's Cup 26 times, and came in 2nd place the other 3 times. And they have been left behind in a conference that just got decimated.

Best athletic department in the country, amazing academics... unwanted bc they aren't good at football.

 

[dtodd4475]

There is only one path forward. We enjoy our rivalries until we get closer to 2036, then the whole thing falls apart and we go join some mega conference and ruin pretty much everything that was still good about college sports.

I do not see any way it gets close to 2036. Holding teams who have zero interest in being there will be disastrous, and just put everyone involved hopelessly behind. They have to let each tier of teams find their spots. They tried to ignore the clear writing on the wall and played theirself into isolation and a Pac 10 fate.

You find the best split at this point get your fair settlement and divorce. It's an it's over dude she doesn't want the marriage anymore type thing. Forcing disgruntled employees to stay who will openly trash the company serves nobody.

 

[dtodd4475]

Stanford doesn't seem to have a seat at the table for the B1G.

Think about that for a second. Stanford is the most successful athletic department in the country. They have won the Learfield Director's Cup 26 times, and came in 2nd place the other 3 times. And they have been left behind in a conference that just got decimated.

Best athletic department in the country, amazing academics... unwanted bc they aren't good at football.

I think the B1G absolutely has a seat for them just not now. It's in segments, next year at this time if not earlier (ESPN already offering another billion for west coast B1G games when they join). I believe the B1G, SEC, and now the Big12 will continue to add teams landing between 20 to 24 each. B1G definitely still interested in the Bay area in due time. Just like Washington and Oregon was going to end up with them. Just not all at once.

Stanford and Cal will be B1G. My guess is with UNC, Virginia, Miami as well. Not sure about the 24th. Obviously that is Notre Dame, but when it becomes necessary for them, and it will, but not as soon, probably.

Getting out of GoR helps Duke, NC State, Pitt, Wake types now as well in my opinion, maybe Louisville, Ga.Tech, even BC ? All can try to slide into the Big12 and work on their future. The earlier they are free to control their movement somewhat the better. UCONN already trying, I'm sure Washington State and Oregon State will start their pitch.

Florida State, Clemson, VA Tech, Louisville, Ga.Tech, SEC.? I believe there will be 70 to 72 in those 3. A 12 team, at first, mega cash playoff system set up from those. Teams outside can continue with the NCAA tier 2 type level championship.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Well it is Pac12 is basically now dead

Their leftovers should probably merge with another west-centric conference. American Athletic (Houston, Memphis), West Coast (Gonzaga, St. Mary's), Mountain West (San Diego St, Utah St.)

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Personally, I don't get the rush toward bigger and bigger conferences. I get that it's all about the money, but what about the game, the rivalries, the meaningfulness of conference titles...?

From a basketball standpoint, I yearn for the old days when every ACC team played every other team home-and-away. Even with the boost to playing 20 conference games a year, that limits a conference to 11 teams (2 games each against the other 10).

If you play home-and-away against the teams in your division of a 2 division conference, and just single games against the rest, that limits the conference to 14 teams (12+7=19 conference games). I guess that would be OK. For basketball. Better than what we have now, but not as nice as home-and-away against all conference foes.

From a football standpoint, it's much worse. Even now, teams only play half-plus-1 of their conference foes.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Stanford doesn't seem to have a seat at the table for the B1G.

Think about that for a second. Stanford is the most successful athletic department in the country. They have won the Learfield Director's Cup 26 times, and came in 2nd place the other 3 times. And they have been left behind in a conference that just got decimated.

Best athletic department in the country, amazing academics... unwanted bc they aren't good at football.

If not for the travel costs, I'd say the ACC should snap them up.

 

[tarheel0910]

Personally, I don't get the rush toward bigger and bigger conferences. I get that it's all about the money, but what about the game, the rivalries, the meaningfulness of conference titles...?

From a basketball standpoint, I yearn for the old days when every ACC team played every other team home-and-away. Even with the boost to playing 20 conference games a year, that limits a conference to 11 teams (2 games each against the other 10).

If you play home-and-away against the teams in your division of a 2 division conference, and just single games against the rest, that limits the conference to 14 teams (12+7=19 conference games). I guess that would be OK. For basketball. Better than what we have now, but not as nice as home-and-away against all conference foes.

From a football standpoint, it's much worse. Even now, teams only play half-plus-1 of their conference foes.

You answered your own question when you mentioned the money. Nobody cares about preserving a WF vs GT game if it means less money. Yearning for all those things means very little. Wise philosophers once said, "dolla dolla bill y'all." That still holds true today.

 

[dtodd4475]

Their leftovers should probably merge with another west-centric conference. American Athletic (Houston, Memphis), West Coast (Gonzaga, St. Mary's), Mountain West (San Diego St, Utah St.)

I think they have already reached out to San Diego St, Colorado St, and Boise St. But they are going to lose Stanford and Cal by then as well. So it will be building around Oregon St. and Wash. St. I would guess UNLV, New Mexico types as well?

 

[dtodd4475]

If not for the travel costs, I'd say the ACC should snap them up.

I don't think the ACC has any chance of interesting Stanford. They are next in line for the B1G. The process much as it was with Oregon and Washington is already being vetted, so that they can move quickly when the time comes.

Washington isn't going to make a ton more at first by joining due to estimating 10 million in additional travel costs from the reduced 35 to 40 million reduced revenue share they will initially receive as it now stands. They will move to a full share though and travel costs will be eased with the 6 west coast members.

I believe part of the negotiation was getting close to an assurance of the additions of Stanford, Cal and a deeper western edge of the conference was coming prior to their full share kick in.

ESPN reportedly already was offering an additional billion to get in with rights to the late night Friday/Saturday B1G games once they add those 4 with SC and UCLA. ESPN's time-line to deal is said to be after they complete their part of the mega NBA rights deal that is up and going to be massive as the leagues popularity is booming as well.

 

[dtodd4475]

You answered your own question when you mentioned the money. Nobody cares about preserving a WF vs GT game if it means less money. Yearning for all those things means very little. Wise philosophers once said, "dolla dolla bill y'all." That still holds true today.

How long before ND's optimal buisness option sways to forgoing their independent status? With Swarbrick set to retire and the path and scheduling to the new playoff eventually tightening. Could it be sooner then later? Their NBC deal still makes them financially sitting pretty without the move though, but it seems to just be a matter of time with the other aspects.

ND would pressure the end of the ACC's GoR as well I would think, or maybe they could work their own buyout separately since they are contractually obligated to join the ACC if they relinquish their independent status? And that won't happen now for sure.