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Brief stuff (Texas game)...

gary-7

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Jan 27, 2003
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...and I hope everyone had a happy Thanksgiving nonetheless.:D:oops:

OK... sometimes you get to witness in real-time one of the generations-old basketball adages that coaches throw around actually play out right in front of our eyes, and that was certainly the case tonight. So rather than go through the statistical minutiae, I'll use it to kick off my points.

- "Making shots makes up for a lot... until it doesn't". The things it can make up for include poor execution, poor shot selection and myriad other bugaboos... well, temporarily anyway, until ya don't make the shots. We witnessed both ends of that from both teams. Texas started off cold, largely due to awful shot selection, and then missed even when they took good ones --- to the extent that it looked to the casual observer as if UNC might pull away for an early night. Meanwhile we made shots --- and by "we" I mean Coby White --- some of which were improbable or not always well-conceived, but they were going in.

- I've often said that Dean Smith's last invention among his many was the (counterintuitive) tactic of using Zone to come from behind in the shot-clock era. It often works beause it takes a hot team out of their rhythm, and forces them to run a different offense and they thus tend to get themselves in a hurry. Roy employed that tactic just as it looked like we were about to be run outta the gym down the stretch. Wouldn't ya know it, Texas canned a 3 first time down but I was proud of Roy for sticking with it, and sure enough they lost their offensive movement and damned if we didn't crawl back into the game. Of course, the other reason it was a good move was we sure as hell weren't stopping them in Man.:eek:

- Speaking of which, it needs to be said that bad D was a team effort, but it started at the top. Matt Coleman just flat wore us out --- he got wherever he wanted, whenever he wanted --- and he consistently got his guys into good scoring ops. If he didn't help us out by missing FTs the game would've been over sooner. I cannot overstate what sort of pressure that unimpeded movement puts on our off-ball defenders. Meanwhile, Roach was heat-checking, but worse, we enabled his drives with some gawdawful attempts at help rotations, and those were killers. There's no way in hell we should be allowing that team to score 92 on us --- especially in a game that was mostly played in the half-court --- the only Fast Breaks they got came when we just threw the ball to them in the backcourt (ugh!). But even when we stopped doing that in the second half they still scored 49!:(

- On a related note, I'm shocked we out-rebounded them, because it sure seemed we couldn't get a clear when it counted. Their backup Big (Hayes?) ate our lunch with put-backs and keeping the ball alive, but y'know what? A lot of that was just poor/no blockouts. Roy might take the rims down next practice.

The rest of this stuff will be about learning --- because in the early season that is certainly a premium for later. And I do this fully aware that some aren't gonna like some of it, but as always, I'm calling it as I see it.

- I could go into gory details about why so many possessions on offense went awry, but I'll just point out one "teaching moment": At a key time late Nas had the ball in transition at the key with no numbers advantage and 2 defenders already set. He tried to take it in and picked up a Charge call and thus a lost possession. Granted, it was a pretty terrible call on an obvious flop, but he brought it on himself by not giving up the rock to a wide-open KW for a rhythm-3 or to get a return pass for a layup. This was just one of many moments that hopefully the younguns will learn from in film sessions.

- Roy will have to learn some things about this team as well, and one was painfully apparent. There are some lineup combinations that should just never see the floor together again. Granted, yes, we missed 7th but being brutally honest, a Leaky/BRob backcourt just ain't likely to end well... and didn't. I love both of those guys, and it ain't their fault --- they're both 3s.

- And speaking of inconvenient observations, here ya go: What you saw from Coby tonight is just what the book on him coming in would predict. Kid is a stone-cold scorer and a fierce competitor and we just saw those scoring chops in full bloom --- he made shots and made FTs --- and when his shots fall he'll put up some impressive point totals. Unfortunately, the other side of that book was displayed as well, in that every other aspect of playing the position of PG was, well, pretty bad... on both ends --- passing, spacing, floor-generalship, on-ball D, off-ball D. And again, I can't blame Coby --- young fella is a warrior, but the subtle-but-vital aspects of UNC PG just don't come naturally to him. In fairness (and contrary to some revisionist history that is occasionally posted here) this time a year ago Coby had no idea he would be thrust into anything close to this current role, so it's gonna be about learning.

Anyway, there ya go. Take it as you will. I'm not upset about this game --- other than the fact I hate losing, and especially losing to friggin Texas --- because these losses were assuredly coming. I just hoped we'd at least hold off on that til Friday... or longer ;). So welp, I guess the best way to cure that is to do some quick learning and snag a win tomorrow...:cool:
 
You need to get your head out of your butt. Your agenda is so easy to see that it is sickening.

Coby White was by far our best player on the court. He held their perimeter by far more in check than supposedly our best defender Kenny Williams did who just got dribbled past over and over and over again for easy scores and causing massive defensive breakdowns.

Coleman was crafty and had his moments but white forced him into mid range jumpers a lot (ones he was making early) and he also used Garrison Brooks to screen White out of the play at least once on a layup.

Last year you were posting bullcrap blown assists numbers and crap to keep your nose brown with Berry. Now every single game it is how White is somehow not doing well enough when he is clearly better than Berry (not as clutch maybe).
 
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You need to get your head out of your butt. Your agenda is so easy to see that it is sickening.

Coby White was by far our best player on the court. He held their perimeter by far more in check than supposedly our best defender Kenny Williams did who just got dribbled past over and over and over again for easy scores and causing massive defensive breakdowns.

Coleman was crafty and had his moments but white forced him into mid range jumpers a lot (ones he was making early) and he also used Garrison Brooks to screen White out of the play at least once on a layup.

Last year you were posting bullshit blown assists numbers and crap to keep your nose brown with Berry. Now every single game it is how White is somehow not doing well enough when he is clearly better than Berry (not as clutch maybe).
The only "agenda" here is yours. You're of course free to agree or disagree as you choose, but please don't mischaracterize what I wrote, and I have never posted "bullshit".

And funny, right after I posted this I went and looked at Roy's presser and lo and behold he pretty much pointed out the same things I did, just not quite as bluntly in a couple of cases. As for your own analysis, well, there were words in it. Have a good evening.
 
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You need to get your head out of your butt. Your agenda is so easy to see that it is sickening.

Coby White was by far our best player on the court. He held their perimeter by far more in check than supposedly our best defender Kenny Williams did who just got dribbled past over and over and over again for easy scores and causing massive defensive breakdowns.

Coleman was crafty and had his moments but white forced him into mid range jumpers a lot (ones he was making early) and he also used Garrison Brooks to screen White out of the play at least once on a layup.

Last year you were posting bullcrap blown assists numbers and crap to keep your nose brown with Berry. Now every single game it is how White is somehow not doing well enough when he is clearly better than Berry (not as clutch maybe).
I totally agree with you. Coby White was what kept us in that game. Take him away we lose that game by a lot more. The offense was so stagnant as Luke especially in the beginning was forcing shots that weren’t smart and If he’s not scoring or rebounding which he struggled with as well tonight, which should be expected against bigger opponents, then luke is a huge liability because he’s a poor defender. From what I saw Coby was actually one of the better defenders and drew at least two charges. Also he played well as a point guard as he had some pretty great passes to start the game off but as Texas picked up there defense and everyone started forcing bad shots, Coby didn’t have much of a choice but to stop passing as much and carry the team on his shoulders.
 
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I totally agree with you. Coby White was what kept us in that game. Take him away we lose that game by a lot more. The offense was so stagnant as Luke especially in the beginning was forcing shots that weren’t smart and If he’s not scoring or rebounding which he struggled with as well tonight, which should be expected against bigger opponents, then luke is a huge liability because he’s a poor defender. From what I saw Coby was actually one of the better defenders and drew at least two charges. Also he played well as a point guard as he had some pretty great passes to start the game off but as Texas picked up there defense and everyone started forcing bad shots, Coby didn’t have much of a choice but to stop passing as much and carry the team on his shoulders.
 
Gary, I hope you had a good thanksgiving and as always, I appreciate your write ups and agree with much of what you say many times but this year there’s a recurring theme that candidly is simply false. You continue to portray Coby White in a way that just isn’t reality. Based on your write up, you’d think the kid had 2 points, 2 assists and 5 turnovers. You mask these jabs under statements like he’s not a typical PG, skill
Set doesn’t match up, etc. Fortunately for us, he was one of the only players that showed up and competed on both ends for us tonight. He had 33 points and only 2 turnovers. He would have had 3-4 more if Luke and Garrison could catch a damn pass and score in the stride in the paint. He has his moments where he looks like a freshman but kid is a stud.

I can assure you we have 2 glaring issues right now, 1 of which we all knew coming in and the other being an issue that needs to be addressed sooner than later. The first is that our post game is non existent which many of us feared would still be the norm and it is. Manley shouldn’t ever see the floor and although Brooks competes hard and is productive, some of his minutes have to go to Nas Little to get our best lineup on the floor in my opinion. Luke is who he is and will
Struggle mightily against big, athletic teams on both ends. The 2nd issue that’s been brought up on here but continued to be sidestepped is Kenny Williams. I think kenny is and can be a very important piece
Of the puzzle for us but he can NOT continue to play 30 minutes a night and give us 2 points and 1 rebound. We applaud his defensive prowess but based on stats and eye test alone, you could argue that he’s not
Exactly killing it on that end as wel. Regardless, he has to be a threat for us offensively. Kenny’s inability on the offensive end is our biggest issue right now as his defender can clog passing and cutting lanes, specifically for guys like Cam and Luke who score most buckets via movement, rather than by putting the ball on the floor and scoring in traffic. Again I’m not saying we throw Kenny to the wolves but something has to change.
 
I agree...Coby played well on both ends of the floor. Coby plays hard on D....so please don't try to slap that label on him. Luke was horrible on both ends and played with zero passion...Kenny was horrible period. Coby said it right...."we played soft".....If you gave him some truth serum....he would have said that Luke/Brooks/Manley played soft as hell.
 
Also just re read your post and your analysis regarding spacing and on ball and off ball
Defense? Spacing is a coby issue? Gary, that’s just down right stupid. Again see Kenny williams write up above, that’s the spacing issue, combined with a tough shooting night for Luke. Add 20ish minutes of game time with lineups they featured BRob, Manley, Platek and Leaky together in pairs at various points which is just a total cluster**** offensively.

And I encourage you to check your defensive comments on Coby. We played not so good defense as a whole, but can assure you if you watch the game, Coby wasn’t anywhere near being our biggest culprit.
 
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And again, Roy highlighting some of the obvious things we saw tonight is 100% different than you listing them as Coby issues on a night when he was the best player on the court
 
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...and I hope everyone had a happy Thanksgiving nonetheless.:D:oops:

OK... sometimes you get to witness in real-time one of the generations-old basketball adages that coaches throw around actually play out right in front of our eyes, and that was certainly the case tonight. So rather than go through the statistical minutiae, I'll use it to kick off my points.

- "Making shots makes up for a lot... until it doesn't". The things it can make up for include poor execution, poor shot selection and myriad other bugaboos... well, temporarily anyway, until ya don't make the shots. We witnessed both ends of that from both teams. Texas started off cold, largely due to awful shot selection, and then missed even when they took good ones --- to the extent that it looked to the casual observer as if UNC might pull away for an early night. Meanwhile we made shots --- and by "we" I mean Coby White --- some of which were improbable or not always well-conceived, but they were going in.

- I've often said that Dean Smith's last invention among his many was the (counterintuitive) tactic of using Zone to come from behind in the shot-clock era. It often works beause it takes a hot team out of their rhythm, and forces them to run a different offense and they thus tend to get themselves in a hurry. Roy employed that tactic just as it looked like we were about to be run outta the gym down the stretch. Wouldn't ya know it, Texas canned a 3 first time down but I was proud of Roy for sticking with it, and sure enough they lost their offensive movement and damned if we didn't crawl back into the game. Of course, the other reason it was a good move was we sure as hell weren't stopping them in Man.:eek:

- Speaking of which, it needs to be said that bad D was a team effort, but it started at the top. Matt Coleman just flat wore us out --- he got wherever he wanted, whenever he wanted --- and he consistently got his guys into good scoring ops. If he didn't help us out by missing FTs the game would've been over sooner. I cannot overstate what sort of pressure that unimpeded movement puts on our off-ball defenders. Meanwhile, Roach was heat-checking, but worse, we enabled his drives with some gawdawful attempts at help rotations, and those were killers. There's no way in hell we should be allowing that team to score 92 on us --- especially in a game that was mostly played in the half-court --- the only Fast Breaks they got came when we just threw the ball to them in the backcourt (ugh!). But even when we stopped doing that in the second half they still scored 49!:(

- On a related note, I'm shocked we out-rebounded them, because it sure seemed we couldn't get a clear when it counted. Their backup Big (Hayes?) ate our lunch with put-backs and keeping the ball alive, but y'know what? A lot of that was just poor/no blockouts. Roy might take the rims down next practice.

The rest of this stuff will be about learning --- because in the early season that is certainly a premium for later. And I do this fully aware that some aren't gonna like some of it, but as always, I'm calling it as I see it.

- I could go into gory details about why so many possessions on offense went awry, but I'll just point out one "teaching moment": At a key time late Nas had the ball in transition at the key with no numbers advantage and 2 defenders already set. He tried to take it in and picked up a Charge call and thus a lost possession. Granted, it was a pretty terrible call on an obvious flop, but he brought it on himself by not giving up the rock to a wide-open KW for a rhythm-3 or to get a return pass for a layup. This was just one of many moments that hopefully the younguns will learn from in film sessions.

- Roy will have to learn some things about this team as well, and one was painfully apparent. There are some lineup combinations that should just never see the floor together again. Granted, yes, we missed 7th but being brutally honest, a Leaky/BRob backcourt just ain't likely to end well... and didn't. I love both of those guys, and it ain't their fault --- they're both 3s.

- And speaking of inconvenient observations, here ya go: What you saw from Coby tonight is just what the book on him coming in would predict. Kid is a stone-cold scorer and a fierce competitor and we just saw those scoring chops in full bloom --- he made shots and made FTs --- and when his shots fall he'll put up some impressive point totals. Unfortunately, the other side of that book was displayed as well, in that every other aspect of playing the position of PG was, well, pretty bad... on both ends --- passing, spacing, floor-generalship, on-ball D, off-ball D. And again, I can't blame Coby --- young fella is a warrior, but the subtle-but-vital aspects of UNC PG just don't come naturally to him. In fairness (and contrary to some revisionist history that is occasionally posted here) this time a year ago Coby had no idea he would be thrust into anything close to this current role, so it's gonna be about learning.

Anyway, there ya go. Take it as you will. I'm not upset about this game --- other than the fact I hate losing, and especially losing to friggin Texas --- because these losses were assuredly coming. I just hoped we'd at least hold off on that til Friday... or longer ;). So welp, I guess the best way to cure that is to do some quick learning and snag a win tomorrow...:cool:
 
It was funny because when Coby White passed that ball way up ahead to Luke Maye past the defense and then tried to slowly lay it up to get blocked I thought 2 things.

1. This is the same exact pass that got Kendall Marshall to the NBA by passing to Tyler Zeller over and over at UNC. An easy fast break bucket beating the defender down the court found by our PG looking ahead and making the right pass.

2. This is what an actual "blown assist" would look like. Blowing an easy dunk and letting it be blocked by trying a lackadaisical layup with a trailer. Not the Joel Berry passed to a guy 25 feet from the hoop who missed a contested 3 "blown assist".
 
Gary, I hope you had a good thanksgiving and as always, I appreciate your write ups and agree with much of what you say many times but this year there’s a recurring theme that candidly is simply false. You continue to portray Coby White in a way that just isn’t reality. Based on your write up, you’d think the kid had 2 points, 2 assists and 5 turnovers. You mask these jabs under statements like he’s not a typical PG, skill
Set doesn’t match up, etc. Fortunately for us, he was one of the only players that showed up and competed on both ends for us tonight. He had 33 points and only 2 turnovers. He would have had 3-4 more if Luke and Garrison could catch a damn pass and score in the stride in the paint. He has his moments where he looks like a freshman but kid is a stud.

I can assure you we have 2 glaring issues right now, 1 of which we all knew coming in and the other being an issue that needs to be addressed sooner than later. The first is that our post game is non existent which many of us feared would still be the norm and it is. Manley shouldn’t ever see the floor and although Brooks competes hard and is productive, some of his minutes have to go to Nas Little to get our best lineup on the floor in my opinion. Luke is who he is and will
Struggle mightily against big, athletic teams on both ends. The 2nd issue that’s been brought up on here but continued to be sidestepped is Kenny Williams. I think kenny is and can be a very important piece
Of the puzzle for us but he can NOT continue to play 30 minutes a night and give us 2 points and 1 rebound. We applaud his defensive prowess but based on stats and eye test alone, you could argue that he’s not
Exactly killing it on that end as wel. Regardless, he has to be a threat for us offensively. Kenny’s inability on the offensive end is our biggest issue right now as his defender can clog passing and cutting lanes, specifically for guys like Cam and Luke who score most buckets via movement, rather than by putting the ball on the floor and scoring in traffic. Again I’m not saying we throw Kenny to the wolves but something has to change.
All I can suggest is go back and read what I wrote again. I said (in different words) that Coby is in fact a stud and lit up the scoreboard, but I stand by the other parts as well and again, Roy mentioned most of the same issues. It was not a knock on Coby, just my observations as to progress as it stands.
 
The problem with Kenny Williams is that he basically refuses to create. He wants to be a catch and shoot guy, but he rarely even sits openly spotted up on the perimeter like Cam does.
 
All I can suggest is go back and read what I wrote again. I said (in different words) that Coby is in fact a stud and lit up the scoreboard, but I stand by the other parts as well and again, Roy mentioned most of the same issues. It was not a knock on Coby, just my observations as to progress as it stands.

Gary, you said when his shots are falling he will put up good scoring numbers, but he isn’t good in every other aspect of being a point guard which is 100% false, so much so, that it makes people question your motives. That much is obvious in the responses you are getting. You are usually spot on with most of what you say but the analysis of coby white has me, and many others wondering what the hell you are watching honestly. Roy mostly highlighted defense, giving up offensive boards and position in key spots, and just general effort/discipline. Again, he never once mentioned Coby in a negative light or that he was to carry blame for any of
The things you included in your write up. Again, just false. Your analysis of Coby tonight would be like me saying Kenny Williams was the best player on the floor and an offensive juggernaut for us.

Maybe somebody gave you some bad turkey? Go to bed Gary! Geez man
 
It was funny because when Coby White passed that ball way up ahead to Luke Maye past the defense and then tried to slowly lay it up to get blocked I thought 2 things.

1. This is the same exact pass that got Kendall Marshall to the NBA by passing to Tyler Zeller over and over at UNC. An easy fast break bucket beating the defender down the court found by our PG looking ahead and making the right pass.

2. This is what an actual "blown assist" would look like. Blowing an easy dunk and letting it be blocked by trying a lackadaisical layup with a trailer. Not the Joel Berry passed to a guy 25 feet from the hoop who missed a contested 3 "blown assist".
Yep. That was absolutely a Blown Assist. Luke should have dunked instead of putting up a weak layup. Now, how that has anything to do with Joel Berry is beyond me o_O

Oh, and for the record, I tracked a team total of 16 tonight --- not a particularly egregious number.
 
Gary, you said when his shots are falling he will put up good scoring numbers, but he isn’t good in every other aspect of being a point guard which is 100% false, so much so, that it makes people question your motives. That much is obvious in the responses you are getting. You are usually spot on with most of what you say but the analysis of coby white has me, and many others wondering what the hell you are watching honestly. Roy mostly highlighted defense, giving up offensive boards and position in key spots, and just general effort/discipline. Again, he never once mentioned Coby in a negative light or that he was to carry blame for any of
The things you included in your write up. Again, just false. Your analysis of Coby tonight would be like me saying Kenny Williams was the best player on the floor and an offensive juggernaut for us.

Maybe somebody gave you some bad turkey? Go to bed Gary! Geez man
It should be noted that Roy Williams did mention White's Defense at half time. And that White was better in the second half also.

Though this was mostly about penetration. Coleman only scored 3 points on white in the first half (granted they switched some). 3 of Coleman's points came when White was sitting.
 
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Gary, you said when his shots are falling he will put up good scoring numbers, but he isn’t good in every other aspect of being a point guard which is 100% false, so much so, that it makes people question your motives. That much is obvious in the responses you are getting. You are usually spot on with most of what you say but the analysis of coby white has me, and many others wondering what the hell you are watching honestly. Roy mostly highlighted defense, giving up offensive boards and position in key spots, and just general effort/discipline. Again, he never once mentioned Coby in a negative light or that he was to carry blame for any of
The things you included in your write up. Again, just false. Your analysis of Coby tonight would be like me saying Kenny Williams was the best player on the floor and an offensive juggernaut for us.

Maybe somebody gave you some bad turkey? Go to bed Gary! Geez man
You can read better than that. You're free to disagree, but c'mon man.
 
Gary seriously stop. You are literally talking in circles at this point. Below is exactly what you said, cut and pasted from your original message.

“..when his shots fall he'll put up some impressive point totals. Unfortunately, the other side of that book was displayed as well, in that every other aspect of playing the position of PG was, well, pretty bad... on both ends --- passing,spacing, floor-generalship,on-ball D, off-ball D.”

Tell me again how I’m misreading what you said. You clearly say he’s bad in every aspect of being a PG minus when his shots are falling.....again, you don’t refute anything I said about our lineups and Kenny Williams specifically being at fault for poor spacing tonight because anybody with a clue knows that floor spacing over the course of a game can’t be put solely on a PG shoulders, and not ever on a night he is the best player on the floor offensively. The defensive assessment may be correct on certain possessions as Coby gambles
From time to time but overall, he did a pretty solid job in comparison to others on the perimeter tonight. Floor generalship? Another bullshit empty metric by you. Dude led us in scoring. Had the ball in his hands the whole night and only had 2
Turns, 1 of which you could make the argument was our guy running to
The wrong spot. We blew 3-4 assists he should have had on point blank shots,
With Luke and Brooks being the big culprits by being weak taking the ball the rim. Floor general is exactly what Coby was when he Kept us in the game and then almost willed
Us to a win. Kid played his heart out and was very efficient across most all metrics tonight. To say otherwise with empty verbiage and lingo is complete and total bullshit. Everybody else knows it, you won’t admit it and change course. I’m the biggest supporter of objective debates on here where there’s a difference of opinion, but this is just comical at this point when folks paraphrase exactly what you say, you say I/we misread it when clearly they didn’t and then you continue down the same path.
 
Coby is a different type point man then we have had running our ship. Different does not mean bad, tonight he was lights out!!! He is a pure scorer, and highly competitive. He will look to score when push comes to shove. Iverson, D.Rose, Jay Williams, Russell Westbrook type front man. Nothing wrong, just different from "traditional playmaker" type point men.

He has the chops to make all the passes and create and he does it well, but it will come in the flow of him probing or pushing quickly upcourt, not setting up with spacing to facilitate a flow into a good look for others. A couple of his early passes to Cam or Kenny coming of a curl he seemed pre determined and threw it when it was not there. When he reads and reacts as he attacks he is more apt to drop a nice on time dime or the correct kick out.

He is a cold blooded scorer, the kind of guy you want with the ball in crucial situations. Going to be fun to watch!!!! His tough hard nosed leader mentality definitely fits the job desciption.

I have a pet peeve with Kenny's shot, which was always there, but seems more pronounced (probably not more, just seems more because he is struggling). His lower half mechanics are terribly inconsistent. He rarely rises straight up, he ends up leaning back even when clear of a defender. Theo (not a shooter,I know) was God awful with his body drifting, and it seems he has worked on that and is more perpendicular from what I've seen in his G league clips. I have no problem with Kenny being the 5th option, but he should still be a option other teams have to respect, which he hasn't been, to this early point of the season.
 
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As Gary said, giving up 92 to Texas is inexcusable. They do not have a good offense. My thoughts on problems from the game:

1. Bad perimeter defense: Coby and Kenny both got burned a lot. I think the Coby defensive criticism is fair (still looks like his footwork is off to me), though I don't really mind. He's a freshman PG who was never renowned for his defense. I don't expect that to change too much in the next few months. Also, frankly, if Coby wasn't playing in this game we would have been smoked. He was such a huge boost to the offense.

Kenny's got to do more. One of the IC podcast guys was saying in pre-season "It's going to be his team this year, you can tell by the confidence in practice on offense". Has not looked like that so far. Some of it is just shots not falling, but he's struggled in other areas too. I thought Kerwin Roach ate him up too much on the dribble drive. Also, I noticed a bunch of PnRs where both Kenny and Cam tagged the roll guy. Not sure who to blame as I don't know the coverage, but most teams have the weak side guy tag? Something is off there.

2. Rebounding: Not terrible, but not up to our standards. Brooks has improved this year, but he's still a little undersized to be a five. I really like his pick-and-roll defense and switching ability, but the Texas guys were a bit too big for him. It seems like the Michigan State / Texas A&M type teams are going to be an issue again based on last night, which surprised me a bit. I thought we matched up well with Texas.

3. Bad ball handling decisions: Still seeing some of the same silly mistakes from last year. We cleaned up a ton in the second half, but Luke/Kenny throw too many passes into tight windows, Manley tries to do too much too quickly (4 TOs in 8 minutes, yikes), etc. Leaky seemed to help some, and Cam has tended to be pretty good (though he had one bad turnover). I think Seventh would have helped with this, though obviously we needed Coby in to create offense. And considering how much Coby had the ball in his hands, I'm okay with his two turnovers.

One separate point: I think Little can do more. He's had some very nice games already and it's super early, but for a guy who was ranked the #2 overall recruit in some places I know he can take a larger role on offense. He still looks a bit timid in the half court, mostly participating in transition and on put backs. And some of the times when he does get involved it's forcing tough shots rather than in the rhythm of the offense. He's also now gone three straight games without a block or a steal. I think he will only get more minutes as the season goes on, so really hoping he becomes one of our best players.
 
Damn y'all! It's pretty simple. Maye was awful on both ends, Williams was awful on both ends, Johnson was awful on both ends, White was awful on defense and had a coming out moment on offense, Little was awful on both ends, perimeter defense put the interior defense in a position to fail big time all night, and what nobody seems to talk about is that we missed Seventh A LOT. When Coby was out we were terrible on both ends. When Coby was on the court we were still terrible on the defensive end and not a normal UNC team on the offensive end. 13 assist/17 turnovers??. It was a total team effort.
 
Last year you were posting bullcrap blown assists numbers and crap to keep your nose brown with Berry. Now every single game it is how White is somehow not doing well enough when he is clearly better than Berry (not as clutch maybe).

White is better than Berry at playing the pg position at this stage in his development? Are you effing crazy? More potential? More athletic? Of course. But better at running the team on both ends of the court? No way, no how, in no world is that accurate. Will he be eventually? Probably so. Barring injuries I would say definitely so.
 
White is better than Berry at playing the pg position at this stage in his development? Are you effing crazy? More potential? More athletic? Of course. But better at running the team on both ends of the court? No way, no how, in no world is that accurate. Will he be eventually? Probably so. Barring injuries I would say definitely so.
White is better than Berry. Yes.
 
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Problem with Texas game was no effective defense on the perimeter. After first five minutes Tx guards had total confidence that A: they could get by our guards on the outside, and B: there is no rim protector backing up those guards. Team defense was atrocious as guys appeared to be thinking too much, "do I help or do I stay on my man?". End result was late decisions that resulted in easy offense for Tx whether weakly-contested drives, a dish for easy basket or offensive rebound to extend possession. Team defense is hard to develop but that will get better.

You cannot compare White to Berry as freshmen without looking at who was around them. Berry had the advantage of more pg experience AND better post players. Would White look more effective at pg with a guy like Meeks who understood how to get his position on the blocks? There is not a true post-up player that the other team has to account for on this team. Opponents would much rather see Luke on the blocks than pulling his defender away and shooting a three. The other bigs have not developed into consistent offensive threats.
Small ball is more common because few teams have legit bigs willing to do that banging down low to maintain position, it is much easier and cooler now to step outside and attempt a three.

This is not UNC's last loss. My guy says the Heels will continue to try and play Roy's more traditional style with a big usually in there until maybe 4 or 6 games into conf and then ultimately go with the smaller line-up. This team kinda reminds me of the '94 team. There are strong upperclassmen that the coach trusts but there are absolute stud freshmen that need to be on the floor.
 
I'd like to see a lot of Seventh at the point with Coby at the 2. Williams and KJ in the rotation to give them some breaks. Coby scores where Williams does not and Seventh can take up the defensive void left by taking Williams out. At least until Williams gets out of his funk.
 
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I think it is pretty easy to see that Joel Berry and Coby White are similar players in score first PGs. Berry himself was not an assist machine. White is just much faster, taller with more reach, and has better passing ability up the court (maybe not so much in the half court).

Berry was less reckless than Coby is.

That's basically it. And, I am comparing a senior Berry to a Freshman 5 games in White.

It is obvious who the better player is. It is why White will be in the league while Berry likely won't ever truly be.

As for defense, go back to the threads last year where we continually pointed out that Berry was slow laterally and would get blown by a lot.

I mean, with the rules the way they are, it is hard to defend the perimeter from a driver due to the plethora of fouls called. Many times the goal is to funnel them into your rim protector which we simply do not have.

It leaves our perimeter players on an island and out to dry . If Brice Johnson is down there inside, a lot of those drives we are wishing they go for.
 
I'd like to see a lot of Seventh at the point with Coby at the 2. Williams and KJ in the rotation to give them some breaks. Coby scores where Williams does not and Seventh can take up the defensive void left by taking Williams out. At least until Williams gets out of his funk.
So you would rather move the scoring void to a PG who isn't really a threat from 3 from the SG who is a threat from 3 and makes the defense spread out just in case?

I mean, Coby White is a scorer. But, he is much more of a threat going down the court of the inbounds than seventh so it just puts us even moreso into a half court game than we alrdy are.
 
So you would rather move the scoring void to a PG who isn't really a threat from 3 from the SG who is a threat from 3 and makes the defense spread out just in case?

I mean, Coby White is a scorer. But, he is much more of a threat going down the court of the inbounds than seventh so it just puts us even moreso into a half court game than we alrdy are.

7th is shooting 50% from 3. Is Williams a threat from 3? Not so much right now.What's to stop Coby from handling the ball coming up court on occasion? Williams won't/can't drive the lane. At least 7th will do that. Bottom line is I'd prefer Coby/Williams but offensively Williams sucks right now. Defensively? What did his man do last night? 32?
 
7th is shooting 50% from 3. Is Williams a threat from 3? Not so much right now.What's to stop Coby from handling the ball coming up court on occasion? Williams won't/can't drive the lane. At least 7th will do that. Bottom line is I'd prefer Coby/Williams but offensively Williams sucks right now. Defensively? What did his man do last night? 32?

I have not seen it mentioned anywhere so I need to add about Kenny: He tweaked an ankle in their previous game and it was very evident that it was bothering him last night. He also tweaked it again in the second half and came out for a short period to get it looked at before coming back in and doing what he could.

I believe this had much to do with how he played both on offense and defense. I'm going to give him a pass for this game and maybe this afternoons game. He is not 100% healthy currently.
 
Kenny Williams being a no show is our biggest issue right now. Also take into consideration that even a magic johnson in his prime would struggle to get assists with the bigs we have...:
 
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I have not seen it mentioned anywhere so I need to add about Kenny: He tweaked an ankle in their previous game and it was very evident that it was bothering him last night. He also tweaked it again in the second half and came out for a short period to get it looked at before coming back in and doing what he could.

I believe this had much to do with how he played both on offense and defense. I'm going to give him a pass for this game and maybe this afternoons game. He is not 100% healthy currently.

Then why play him 28 minutes?
 
This team will only be 7-8 guys deep come March. Roy is gonna play Robinson , Platek more now to help keep fresher legs for the main perimeter guys. Then guys like Manley or Black's minutes will fluctuate based on matchups with teams. Manley was in a bad matchup yesterday and shouldn't of played as much as he did. No Seventh hurt for sure , but this team will be trending to playing a lot more small ball in the next 6-8 weeks.
 
Berry himself was not an assist machine.

Berry was a blown assist machine, to here Gary tell it anyway.

Idk what Gary's axe to grind is but it is a bit scary that with as much B-ball IQ as Gary seams to have he cant see or give credit where it is due to the game that a White played with out running him down in the next breath.
 
Then why play him 28 minutes?

Because he is a senior and was the better option. If you watched him close as I did on replay, he was definitely favoring his ankle the entire night and could not cut and shift quick enough to stay in front of his man. With a bad wheel, it slows you down considerably, and as a result, you get what we got,
poor defense.

There was no one that was effective on defense against Kenny's man when he was out, and Kenny was certainly less than effective don't you think? Remember, as Roy has reiterated many times, Kenny is our best defender and you don't go from being the best to the worst without a definitive reason. The Texas kid was a good player, but not near the player our defense made him look like. Kenny just tried to tough it out and it did not work.
 
7th is shooting 50% from 3. Is Williams a threat from 3? Not so much right now.What's to stop Coby from handling the ball coming up court on occasion? Williams won't/can't drive the lane. At least 7th will do that. Bottom line is I'd prefer Coby/Williams but offensively Williams sucks right now. Defensively? What did his man do last night? 32?
I cannot even believe you just made a like 2 shot sample size argument. Dead. Lolololol
 
Luke and Garrison should never be on the floor at the same time. Neither is a dominant post presence on O or D. And if we are going small having both is also far from our best lineup.
 
Gary chooses this game to stick strong with his anti-Coby nonsense.


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The two biggest reasons we lost this game are:

- Luke was bad. Defensively his man got, from what I counted, 4 offensive rebounds.
- Our on the ball defense was AWFUL. Coby, Leaky, Cam all regularly got blown by forcing us into helps which led to buckets off the first pass.

Coby's shooting and the zone D were the only things that kept this close.

P.S. It's funny, on TOS a former player under Roy who now coaches at a lower level does similar game recaps and it's hysterical to see how different his are than Gary's. I won't have to tell you which one is gets universal love (cuz they are great) and which one has 30 responses that disagree with it.
 
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