I'm in Iowa and I'm pissed, but we need to realize our best-toughest-leader-heart of the team-All American is out--Just breathe and realize we're going to lose 5-6 games..enjoy the CBE tourney, I'll be there..Relax
Calm down..
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Yep, might as well relax, it's either that or stress out over something you cannot change.
We will be better than ok, but we still can't stay in front of people - that is a big problem. Matador D with no shot blockers is likely to kill us in the tourney where you have to win six in a row, 5 against tough opposition
Maybe this will be our Santa Clara game?
Besides, I'll gladly take an early season L in basketball in exchange for wrapping up the Coastal division.
Besides, I'll gladly take an early season L in basketball in exchange for wrapping up the Coastal division.
A better than fair trade , unless you are basketball only.
LONG season and no sugarcoat this was a BAD loss...BUT Roy made NO bones about how bad a job HE did and also our terrible defense in the second half and promises to work this team tail off to get MUCH better.
Need MP back and get a solid rotation
Need MP back and get a solid rotation
FWIW.... attending the game today, I was surprised / happy with how many Heels fans were there. In a building that had a crowd of maybe 7,000; I'd say there were at least 500 Heels fans. And UNI (Cedar Falls, IA is pretty much the middle of nowhere.
All the people I met from UNI seemed decent and respectful. No aholes. Which, made the loss a LITTLE easier to deal with.
A few things I noticed about the game:
1) It seems the officials did seem to keep UNI in it somewhat by calling fouls more quickly on some of our players, who just overpowered theirs. So what? There has always been some home favoritism, and always will be. Good teams need to be good enough to overcome that. This game should've never been close enough to be a factor.
2) Meeks was a dominant machine for the first 3-4 game minutes, playing strong and scoring our first 8 points (on 4 shots I think).... then disappeared basically for the remaining 36. Pathetic. He is a 6'10" guy who can easily dunk it from a flat footed jump, but for some reason he still sometimes plays on offense like he is 6'" even against shorter players.
3) I am a little nervous about Theo Pinson. He just didn't look quite right coming off the court a couple times in the second half. Slow, almost like hiding a limp or having some pain. He doesn't seem 100% to me.
4) I wish we would press more against teams like this, and force tempo. We were way deeper, but it didn't matter, because so many possessions for them were using the full 30 seconds. It didn't seem like anyone from UNI was close to getting gassed. I don't know how they record them, but I don't recall us having one fast break point, against a team that didn't seem to have lock down defenders.
5) comments people made about guarding the 3 are so right on. We got outscored by 18 points from 3. I know its never going to change, but I just wish we would play our guys straight up on the perimeter and not double down to the post guys. If the likes of Meeks, Brice, Hicks, can't handle the smaller and less athletic guys they played against today one-on-one, we truly are screwed.
6) The UNI people next to me said it'd be a different result if Paige played. I suppose so. But what would he have done better? I guess the times when we have Britt (and no Berry) on the court, we have a really hard time feeding the post, but a lot of that is on our bigs not being aggressive enough. Still, having Berry have to sit with 3-4 fouls (including one that was VERY bogus)was really tough.
7) Nice to see Justin Jackson have a great game. We have enough shooters to go far. We just need way better perimeter defense, and get better at feeding the post, then those guys have to finish.
On a personal note, I got to high five / shake hands with Marcus Paige, Kennedy Meeks, Sean May, Hubert Davis..... which I thought was pretty cool.
All the people I met from UNI seemed decent and respectful. No aholes. Which, made the loss a LITTLE easier to deal with.
A few things I noticed about the game:
1) It seems the officials did seem to keep UNI in it somewhat by calling fouls more quickly on some of our players, who just overpowered theirs. So what? There has always been some home favoritism, and always will be. Good teams need to be good enough to overcome that. This game should've never been close enough to be a factor.
2) Meeks was a dominant machine for the first 3-4 game minutes, playing strong and scoring our first 8 points (on 4 shots I think).... then disappeared basically for the remaining 36. Pathetic. He is a 6'10" guy who can easily dunk it from a flat footed jump, but for some reason he still sometimes plays on offense like he is 6'" even against shorter players.
3) I am a little nervous about Theo Pinson. He just didn't look quite right coming off the court a couple times in the second half. Slow, almost like hiding a limp or having some pain. He doesn't seem 100% to me.
4) I wish we would press more against teams like this, and force tempo. We were way deeper, but it didn't matter, because so many possessions for them were using the full 30 seconds. It didn't seem like anyone from UNI was close to getting gassed. I don't know how they record them, but I don't recall us having one fast break point, against a team that didn't seem to have lock down defenders.
5) comments people made about guarding the 3 are so right on. We got outscored by 18 points from 3. I know its never going to change, but I just wish we would play our guys straight up on the perimeter and not double down to the post guys. If the likes of Meeks, Brice, Hicks, can't handle the smaller and less athletic guys they played against today one-on-one, we truly are screwed.
6) The UNI people next to me said it'd be a different result if Paige played. I suppose so. But what would he have done better? I guess the times when we have Britt (and no Berry) on the court, we have a really hard time feeding the post, but a lot of that is on our bigs not being aggressive enough. Still, having Berry have to sit with 3-4 fouls (including one that was VERY bogus)was really tough.
7) Nice to see Justin Jackson have a great game. We have enough shooters to go far. We just need way better perimeter defense, and get better at feeding the post, then those guys have to finish.
On a personal note, I got to high five / shake hands with Marcus Paige, Kennedy Meeks, Sean May, Hubert Davis..... which I thought was pretty cool.
This program isnt going anywhere as long as Roy is the coach. Just being honest. The recruiting landscape and overall style of college basketball has changed dramatically in the last 5 years and Roy has proven he's not going to adjust
Disagree. UNI is usually very solid. They could win their conference and a tourney game or 2. We don't know where either of these teams will be in 4 months, we just assume we know how good UNC is and how "bad" UNI is. Read that again. We are FOUR months away from the tournaments. We were down our best player. We played on the road in front of a crowd that won't be that charged up again all season. R E L A X. Relax.
Heelicious, I just got through watching the replay (as dispassionately and analytically as I can muster) and honestly there's not a lot any stats are gonna reveal that we didn't see, so instead for this one I'm just gonna comment on some of the good points you made.
1) You are right, the officiating was one-sided, but the worst was the uncalled illegal screens and Lord, the uncalled travelling. Speaking of which, the 60-footer at the half should not have counted. Dude literally got a running start (3-1/2 steps to be exact). The charge on Berry was really bad as well. Still, as you said, good teams need to be able to overcome some home cookin'.
4) Pressure. This is where that chicken-sh** rule change abolishing the 5-second call really hurts us. Ironically I had a conversation at lunch about how that was gonna bite us before the season was out. That change takes away so much from our ability to force tempo with defense. The other factor is that we needed to go smaller to trap those guys.
5) As for 3s, again they were a match-up problem and got hot all of the sudden, but our biggest issue was not making enough 3s ourselves.
Jackson was a bright spot, but he had some other not-so-good moments as well. There was just so much badness that happened in spurts. Our Bigs would do lousy jobs of playing high screens and help D, Theo went back to putting his head down in transition, Nate reverted back to Nate 1.0, and Berry disappointed by not creating his shot at key times when we needed him and didn't get to the line. And honestly Roy didn't have his best game. That slide double at the elbow adjustment was too little, too late and could have stopped a lot of that penetration.
Finally though --- on the step-away-from-the-ledge side --- this is a game where Marcus would have made a HUGE difference. Would have made it easier to go small and the added fire-power likely would have kept that upset-minded bunch at bay.
I did not see the game, hate ESPN3, but this much I do know, we always seem to find a way to lose a head scratcher this time of the season. It sucks when it happens but I expect such a clunker game out of the blue. It does not define our season but folks over react when it happens. Lot of highly ranked teams playing poorly right now.
5) comments people made about guarding the 3 are so right on. We got outscored by 18 points from 3. I know its never going to change, but I just wish we would play our guys straight up on the perimeter and not double down to the post guys. If the likes of Meeks, Brice, Hicks, can't handle the smaller and less athletic guys they played against today one-on-one, we truly are screwed.
We are good for one or two of these kinds of losses in most years. Even our championship years. Color me not worried at all......yet.
The three point thing is a philosophy. It goes back to Dean Smith. Granted, that was when that shot was first introduced to college basketball and prior to that all shots were were the same two points. We've always used the defensive strategy of focusing on the higher percentage shot and limiting those looks. Letting a guard drive to the basket with an empty lane (UNI did a good job of spreading the floor) isn't ideal, but a team that consistently hits threes will beat us more times than not because 3>2. It's not that we aren't guarding it, it's that we don't emphasize guarding it like some want. We rotate on defense to be in position to help in the lane and when a team is poised and moves the ball well, they will get open looks. If they hit them, we are in for a tough game. It's no different year over year. If a team hits 11 threes against us, they are going to beat us 7 of 10 times.
I just think its stupid that he uses that "philosophy" for every game as if every team we play does the exact thing. Literally the only way northern iowa could win that game is by hitting more than 10 3's yet Roy strucutres his defense to invite them to shoot the 3's. Like someone else said does he not trust Brice, Meeks, and Hicks to guard their much smaller and less skilled opponent 1on1?
This is a classic example of a game where the match-up issue is crucial. It's a trade-off between our dominance inside vs being challenged guarding perimeter shooters. When you face a group where their 1-thru-4 men (and sometimes 5) can light it up from deep, the pcts of 3 vs 2 simply tip in the wrong direction. Neither Kennedy, Brice nor James can guard a 6'6 wing shooter/handler on the perimeter, and Hicks ain't great at it.5) comments people made about guarding the 3 are so right on. We got outscored by 18 points from 3. I know its never going to change, but I just wish we would play our guys straight up on the perimeter and not double down to the post guys. If the likes of Meeks, Brice, Hicks, can't handle the smaller and less athletic guys they played against today one-on-one, we truly are screwed.
This is where we need the ability to go small.for long periods, i.e. only one of the Bigs in at any time, and rotate them often for freshness. Slide Theo down to the 4 (which he is thoroughly capable of). However, this is a situation that needs Marcus back for optimum effectiveness. With Berry, Paige, Jackson, Pinson and a Big we could much more effectively guard teams like this and still hold our edge inside as we are more athletic. It would also allow for more effective perimeter traps --- and if they want to throw it in to their one true Big, I'll take my chances one-on-one and cover the kick-outs. Marcus being back will give us sufficient depth to do that for longer periods.
Plus (as Barney Fife would say), you hafta fight fire with fire sometimes. That particular small lineup also gives us outside fire power to light up our own barrage of 3s.
What concerns me is I saw a team that looked exactly like what I saw last year against Butler, etc. With or without Paige, this team should never struggle with UNI who lost almost all their scoring from last year. Really it was just another poorly coached game with poor defensive effort from the players. Unc is made up of juniors and seniors all being 4 and 5 star kids. What I saw yesterday was inexcusable.
Great post Gary. You are right on about yesterday's matchups, and our inability of our bigs to cope with their 3's and 4's drawing our bigs out to guard them shooting the 3. Going small exactly like you mentioned would help. But I think even most of our smaller guys need to do a better job of defending, as well. I wondered in hindsight if maybe Kenny Williams should be getting a bit more playing time, but maybe he's not ready. ie - give him some of Nate's or Luke Maye's time. Maybe he'd have been a better defender in some instances.
I usually expect an out-of-the-blue loss, too. But this year I really thought we might be able to avoid that. So much depth and experience.
The depth was illusory in this game, though. We basically played only 7 guys. Nobody else got more than 4 minutes.
With Berry, Theo and Nate all struggling - and struggling pretty badly at times - I'm a little surprised we didn't see more of Kenny and some of Stilman. I can only assume that Roy felt enough confidence in our core players to let them play through their struggles. You just don't expect the entire backcourt to have a bad game at the same time. And certainly not when the front court is also below average.
Other than Kennedy's first few minutes, and some nice flashes from Brice from time to time, the only players who performed up to spec were Justin (finally!) and Isaiah.
I agree. But we really didn't use our depth in this game. Seven guys played almost all the minutes. If they were playing well and winning, that would be fine. But we were losing starting about 3 minutes into the 2nd half. The only thing we really did differently during that stretch was play Isaiah more. Good choice, but not enough.
I'd love to see us try a press. I doubt it will happen, but if it might, let's try it early - and not wait deep into the season.
I tried ESPN3 through my Roku for the first time (using the WatchESPN channel). MUCH better than watching on my computer. Almost like watching regular cable.
I mention this in case you have a Roku or have been considering getting one.
Yeah. KW still is a bit tentative. That's another reason why Marcus was missed so badly. Nate guarding naked in isolations is not a good thing... and our help from the key area screens was sporadic at best... and once Berry got in foul trouble it was hard to force the dribbler into bad places. Marcus could have switched over to spell JB on their point and left us with more fresh depth to rotate in.
Also, I would have loved to have seen that slide-over perimeter double much earlier and more often. It gives you the option of either at least thwarting dribble penetration on a 30 jump switch or a hard trap to trigger the 42.
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Oh, and one more thing that puzzled me: We have a 3-2 zone in our arsenal that Roy has rarely but effectively pulled out of our bag in the past. That game would have been the perfect place for it. 3-2s are great for matching up on teams with multi perimeter shooters and matching up against dribble entries.
Great post..this game made me sick..but I think/hope we dominate KC tourney...ill be there and report..G o Heels!
I was discussing the game in the office this morning and came to the conclusion that it was either Santa Clara type game with Paige out or we are in trouble. Hope it is the first and not the second.
The bball game and the terrible fumbles in the football game caused me to have a meltdown. Was on my way to Raleigh for dinner with my son. Glad our car wasn't wired for sound. We reached our destination and my wife handed me my phone and I got to read the running commentary of my comments and actions while I was driving. It was funny after the fact but not so much in the heat of the moment.
I understand your frustration. Roy doesn't "try" to lose games, but he tends to side with Dean Smith that the end destination is more important and he coaches up to that. That's why (typically) Dean and Roy coached teams are better at the end of the year. You can win some games strictly on talent, but you need to have schemes and philosophies become second nature come tournament time. UNC plays a more complex system than some realize, that's why you see some freshmen look lost. We don't just throw the ball out and say "go play". Sometimes we as fans wish we would, I know.
I do think adhering to the mindset that a 3pt shot is the same for all teams is flawed. Shooters can hit the three with 40-50%+ success, which when you factor th 3 points vs. 2 points it becomes a high percentage shot (apples to apples).
Well said and very true.
One of Dean's M.O.'s (and occasionally his achilles heel in a given game) was his commitment to his (albeit brilliant) system. He actually became more willing to adjust over time. As much as I love Roy, his self-admitted stubbornness does get in the way at times, and did in this game, IMO.
Got engaged this weekend and missed the game so I'm watching it on ESPN3 right now as I work...
10mins in and I'm wondering...like I always have....why in the hell does Joel James see the court? I know that anything negative is shot down in a hurry over here but I remember seeing posts earlier comparing this years team to 2005 and 2009 which is sooo laughable.
Those teams were literally better at almost every position - if not every position. Those teams had killers...
10mins in and I'm wondering...like I always have....why in the hell does Joel James see the court? I know that anything negative is shot down in a hurry over here but I remember seeing posts earlier comparing this years team to 2005 and 2009 which is sooo laughable.
Those teams were literally better at almost every position - if not every position. Those teams had killers...
As I have said, I didn't see the game but from the comments and the box score, I would suggest we didn't lose that game because our opponents shot so many threes. We shot, I believe 48% from the floor in the first half, we shot scored 26pts in the second half. We had, believe it was 12 trips to the foul line for the game, and we forced a grand total of 6 turn overs for the game? WE got way to little from our front court, rather than getting the ball inside and seeking the foul call my bet is we shot to many jumpers and even our inside guys reverted back to the fall away stuff that does not grant you the foul. Attack the inside, get the other teams bigs in to foul trouble, especially with the way the refs are looking at things now. 12 trips to the line means you are not attacking them, with the dribble or inside with our bigs.
My bet is we settled for way to many jump shots and those jumpers stopped falling in the second half and we were not quick to the rebounds. It also appears we allowed them to play at their pace rather than amping the pace up to our style. I agree with whom ever suggested we press and use our depth to get them out of their preferred pace and in to ours.
No, this is not a game we should have lost, an experienced team like this should not be allowing that kind of thing. Yes, Roy does try hard to impliment the concepts Dean used but the thing that bothers me to often is that Dean was never afraid the change and tweek his system, he was not the kind of coach that never changed his system no matter what. Roy is to hard headed and at times to stuck in what used to work as well as things that he just does not like. For example, been discussed for a long time, Roy hates zone defense, hates to have his teams use it, Dean used zone as much as he did man because he wanted to keep teams off balance and not allow them to settle in to having to face the same ole defense, sooner or later they figure out how to handle the same defense, Dean many times would be in 4 different defensive looks on 4 different consecutive trips, Roy very rarely changes up how we defend. That to me is a huge weakness in him as a coach and always has been.
The loss is on Roy. The Heels were up 16 points in the second half. Then UNI hit 3 consecutive 3-point shots before he called time out. Our players panicked after that sequence. We shot 2-3 three pointers after that didn't touch the rim. Roy should have called time out after the second 3 point shot. UNI when into a 4-corners offense with Wasdin 1-on-1 with Britt or Berry guarding him and the other 4 players spreaded out. He drove to the basket without much resistance and the other players (especially Brice) did not leave their player to pick-up Wasdin. It was so easy Wasdin had a smile on his face. We let them shoot 28 three-point shots with many being uncontested shots. Let's stop making excuses for an experienced team. We are going to see what the team is made of over the next couple of days which in my opinion are "must" wins to remain in the Top Ten. It is critical that the Heels receive the #1 seed in the East and that that refocus must start tonight.
Firstly, congrats and there is still time to back out!
Secondly, no negative reaction, just a rational one. Joel James sees court time for two important reasons:
1. He's all there is to back up Kennedy. Sure, Roy could play small, but he's going to need Joel's 6-11 frame, 270 pounds and 5 fouls during the course of this season
2. Leading in from reason 1. Roy plays Joel now to give him game time. He can't stick the big fella on ice until the entire front court gets into foul trouble in the elite eight. Joel needs court time now, if for no other reason to ensure he can provide at lease serviceable minutes down the track.
You are right, this team is not like '05 and '09, it's very different. There is an overall spread of talent and no real top 5-10 pick out there. The recruiting problems have been discussed endlessly on here and we're now seeing the result of many, many players choosing to go elsewhere. Remember, Roy was recruiting Skal, Zimmerman and others for a reason!
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Well said. Was having flashbacks to Butler last year myself. Look, it's really not all that disheartening that we lost the game... its how we lost the game. I realize Marcus was out, but that's hardly an excuse. If he gets in foul trouble or rolls an ankle and is done for the game in the Round of 32 - would we just roll over and die like that against an 8 seed? I realize in the grand scheme of things this loss isn't that important. However, if we're toe-to-toe with another team for a #1 seed - this loss could be the reason we get sent out West or something.
I've now watched these types of bad losses with refusal to adapt in game with a few different sets of players. I'm starting to think more and more that its not the players fault...
Hopefully once we get Marcus back the confidence is back and the team gels and they look at this game as a learning point. We need to build off the loss, not let it snowball.
Steat, I'm gonna have to agree with you. Most times I'm on Roy's side on the timeout thing, but not this time. You are exactly right: After that second 3 in that sequence there was something amiss and momentum (on their court) was shifting in the wrong direction and in a hurry.
More importantly, our Bigs just lost any semblance of playing the high screen and help. Washpun didn't get much himself early but he was getting kick-outs, but then up against Britt and later when Berry was guarding him in foul trouble he had easy drives with little or no help --- in fact the "help" made things worse for our PGs in the second half by half-assing hedges and leaving our PGs in no-man's land.
Again, a switch to a 3-2 zone look and some wing jumps could have put a damper on a lot of that driving nonsense.
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