Changes in perception...

[gary-7]

Back when I was coaching, especially when working camps and clinics when the talk among coaches turned to recruiting among various programs I would often hear the term "Carolina Kid", as in "Player X is a Carolina Kid", which typically referred to a player good enough to play high-D-1 ball and was also the sort of player UNC recruited. Now that could mean a kid who grew up a Heel fan, but more often it referred to a kid with certain qualities, such as being willing to be a team player, coming from a solid support system, able to handle the academics... most of y'all guys know what I'm talking about.

A "Carolina Kid" could be the #1 ranked HS prospect (like Jeff Lebo or JR Reid or Eric Montross), or he could be a moderately talented player with strong character and/or perspective (like Warren Martin or Jackson Simmons or Desmond Hubert), and in between. For the purposes of this post I'm just gonna stick with the blue-chip prospects. Granted, not all UNC players turn out to fit the profile, but there was a bunch of truth to that moniker, with the side affect that it did limit the universe of prospects we would seriously go after in a given cycle. But once Dean got to the point where he could "select" almost as much as recruit --- and then Roy re-established that cred, it was great for us.

Obviously, several programs recruit the same kids but Dean and Roy typically didn't extend many offers. Nonetheless we were able to score many impressive recruiting classes. Also, of course dook and UNC often recruited the same players, but even that started to change somewhat as K's regime went on. Again, none of that is news. The OAD era has certainly polarized things further among elite players in that the OAD concept has been glamorized to upcoming kids (and the AAU shoe culture exacerbates it, to say the least). Calipari lives by it and the Rat has sold what's left of his soul to it, dumbing down their systems to accommodate freshmen starters.

Still, there have always been "Carolina Kids" out there among the modern elite/HS All-Americans. Psycho, Bobby, Ginyard, Ty, Wayne, Marvin, Zeller, Henson, Barnes, Butter, McAdoo, Paige, Meeks, Hicks all fit the bill and the 2014 class of JB, JJ and Theo is a great example.

Here's where I'm going with this: More and more in recent years I hear basketball people (especially in AAU) make a distinction --- sometimes snidely towards UNC --- between the kids who are buying the pitch that their freshman season will be their audition for the NBA on one hand, and "Carolina Kids" on the other who might see a bigger picture in choosing a college. Lord knows we've gotten a taste of it on here with condescending dookies telling us what recruits we should expect to 'settle' for (they can GF themselves BTW).

Anyway, I recently mentioned that I had heard something negative concerning a kid we're recruiting, so here's the exact quote: "Oh, ______ was a total Carolina Kid... I know he still likes Carolina, but I don't know if he's the same kid anymore." The obvious translation is that the recruit in question might've gotten a case of the big head (as we say in the south) and has become susceptible to the glam pitch. Now please don't ask me to fill in that blank --- I'll do that later in the process (and it may not be who you think it is). I'll just say if the bad news in that info comes to fruition this one would be particularly maddening in that it would make zero sense for him to turn away from UNC even if being OAD has entered the picture.

Now, I hope @DSouthr is right and the Skal draft scenario might sober some kids up but I kinda doubt it. On the other hand there will still be "Carolina Kids" out there among the elite --- Roy has found them in the past, and while it's tougher, I'm confident Roy will find them again. Maybe an occasional OAD, but it wouldn't bother me one way or the other. An OAD with the wrong attitude can do more harm than good.... and that's an issue that will likely weed itself out.

 

[RoseHeel]

From the wording, I have a slight feeling it may be Tilmon, as he has started to get some attention nationally. And he's the only player who we've all been banking on so far in 2017 (which I assume is the class you're talking about). Whoever it may be, I do hope at some point in time you'll let us know, as it usually stings worse when the ones we felt we were closing in on suddenly make a left turn elsewhere.

Regarding Roy and OAD's, he said that his strategy was to get a good mix of players, i.e. OAD(s), Contributors, Role Players, etc. and personally, I liked that idea better than becoming a OAD factory. But when the NCAA came knocking, it became pretty much impossible to do that. I don't think Roy will suddenly start pulling in top talent one class removed from the NCAA case being closed, but I think we may see a shift in strategy very soon. The idea that UNC "isn't the place" for a OAD is ridiculous. You have OADs going to schools like Marquette and Purdue, of all places. Hell, Mitchell Robinson is a top 10 recruit currently favoring WKU and LSU! Yet somehow, opposing coaches have managed to generate the belief that you can't be OAD at UNC. And I've never heard Roy say anything like "If you want to be One and Done, don't come to UNC". It's absolutely maddening IMO.

 

[Tom79]

It is sad, gary, to see so many kids manipulated by the present system.
It begins early for some, and by high school it is in earnest. What is sad is that the kid begins to believe the smoke being blown up is meaningful.
So a kid falls into the OAD camp or perhaps is on the cusp of OAD-ism. Take a peek at the OAD's over the past 15 years or so. Then check out their draft position. Then check out their NBA career/stats.
This may well just be my opinion but I'd wager that most of all this does not completely match up. Some of the draft busts are the biggest OAD's.
In other words we still desperately need Carolina kids. People knock us for recruiting all kids from #1 in a class to #150...there are good kids throughout. Clearly the top basketball schools cannot all sign the top 12 to 15 kids. The ones that I find to be jewels are typically the 15 to 50 group, way more Carolina kids in that group, yeah we get lucky and get a Barnes or Davis or Williams every now and then but those kids are Carolina kids and tops in class.
Saw a glaring example of why we recruit the way we do the other day. An NBA player, D. Rose, was considered for a trade to the Knicks. Staff there flat out told his agent that they did not appreciate nor expect his "posse" and all his forever needs to come trailing along to New York. Of course, that is the exact reason we stayed away from him, not a Carolina kid. Also heard grumbling from some NBA teams over Ben Simmons...just sayin'...

My expectation is in the '17 class UNC will get some Carolina kids...

 

[DSouthr]

Back when I was coaching, especially when working camps and clinics when the talk among coaches turned to recruiting among various programs I would often hear the term "Carolina Kid", as in "Player X is a Carolina Kid", which typically referred to a player good enough to play high-D-1 ball and was also the sort of player UNC recruited. Now that could mean a kid who grew up a Heel fan, but more often it referred to a kid with certain qualities, such as being willing to be a team player, coming from a solid support system, able to handle the academics... most of y'all guys know what I'm talking about.

A "Carolina Kid" could be the #1 ranked HS prospect (like Jeff Lebo or JR Reid or Eric Montross), or he could be a moderately talented player with strong character and/or perspective (like Warren Martin or Jackson Simmons or Desmond Hubert), and in between. For the purposes of this post I'm just gonna stick with the blue-chip prospects. Granted, not all UNC players turn out to fit the profile, but there was a bunch of truth to that moniker, with the side affect that it did limit the universe of prospects we would seriously go after in a given cycle. But once Dean got to the point where he could "select" almost as much as recruit --- and then Roy re-established that cred, it was great for us.

Obviously, several programs recruit the same kids but Dean and Roy typically didn't extend many offers. Nonetheless we were able to score many impressive recruiting classes. Also, of course dook and UNC often recruited the same players, but even that started to change somewhat as K's regime went on. Again, none of that is news. The OAD era has certainly polarized things further among elite players in that the OAD concept has been glamorized to upcoming kids (and the AAU shoe culture exacerbates it, to say the least). Calipari lives by it and the Rat has sold what's left of his soul to it, dumbing down their systems to accommodate freshmen starters.

Still, there have always been "Carolina Kids" out there among the modern elite/HS All-Americans. Psycho, Bobby, Ginyard, Ty, Wayne, Marvin, Zeller, Henson, Barnes, Butter, McAdoo, Paige, Meeks, Hicks all fit the bill and the 2014 class of JB, JJ and Theo is a great example.

Here's where I'm going with this: More and more in recent years I hear basketball people (especially in AAU) make a distinction --- sometimes snidely towards UNC --- between the kids who are buying the pitch that their freshman season will be their audition for the NBA on one hand, and "Carolina Kids" on the other who might see a bigger picture in choosing a college. Lord knows we've gotten a taste of it on here with condescending dookies telling us what recruits we should expect to 'settle' for (they can GF themselves BTW).

Anyway, I recently mentioned that I had heard something negative concerning a kid we're recruiting, so here's the exact quote: "Oh, ______ was a total Carolina Kid... I know he still likes Carolina, but I don't know if he's the same kid anymore." The obvious translation is that the recruit in question might've gotten a case of the big head (as we say in the south) and has become susceptible to the glam pitch. Now please don't ask me to fill in that blank --- I'll do that later in the process (and it may not be who you think it is). I'll just say if the bad news in that info comes to fruition this one would be particularly maddening in that it would make zero sense for him to turn away from UNC even if being OAD has entered the picture.

Now, I hope @DSouthr is right and the Skal draft scenario might sober some kids up but I kinda doubt it. On the other hand there will still be "Carolina Kids" out there among the elite --- Roy has found them in the past, and while it's tougher, I'm confident Roy will find them again. Maybe an occasional OAD, but it wouldn't bother me one way or the other. An OAD with the wrong attitude can do more harm than good.... and that's an issue that will likely weed itself out.

gary, good stuff by the way as always! WE do not walk a mile in a single stride, it takes the many small steps to cover that mile. IN recruiting we have not got to where we are because of one giant stride, there were a lot of little steps along the way that brought us to where we are today.

There was Darryl Dawkins way back in the day that showed that a kid could come straight from high school and play in the NBA, that was not seen as likely before him. We saw kids begin to leave college earlier and earlier, matter of fact UNC was one of the few programs and maybe the program it was most often seen, that kids left for the NBA before completing their full eligibility in college, Worthy, MJ. But in what may have seemed like an instant all the sudden kids were not thinking in terms of 4yrs in college, many began to think in terms of 3 and then 2 and then 1 and then NONE. Perception among these kids changed in what seemed like an instant but in fact was a thing that evolved over several years.

Then there was a NBA draft that was a bit of a milestone, we saw, I believe it was 10 kids enter the draft straight out of high school. It was the draft I call and many considered, the Robert Swift draft. Robert Swift was the name used because very few saw Robert Swift as anything near a NBA player. Now lots of other kids went direct from high school to the NBA before that draft but that draft is the one that made the NBA stop and take notice that they were drafting and paying kids huge money that really were not NBA level players. For what ever reason being unable to simply not draft these kids, the NBA felt they had to implement 2 things that pretty much set this early entry in to the NBA on full steam ahead, the one & done rule and the rookie salary cap. Point being there were a lot of steps along the way that got us here and it took a lot more time than we actually realize. WE college fans that can't wait for next season to begin the day after the last one has ended do not realize how long ago this whole issue began or how many little steps that it took to get us here.

And I say all that to make the point that it took all those many steps and time to get us here, it is going to take many steps and time to get us from here. But situations change and sometimes things dramatically change as a result of a rule change. The one & done and the rookie salary cap (one is just as important as the other to explain why the one & done has taken such firm hold). Those 2 things working together along with the fact that guys like Kobe, Lebron, and several others were NBA all stars that never spent a day in a college program, well all the sudden every kid thinks he is the next great one and college is nothing more than a temporary step that they must take even if they do not want to.

But there is a balance of things right now that as long as it stays in this balance the status remains the same but that balance is challenged when small things change, Skal was a small thing but how many small things do you need in order for a major change to occur? Couple kids already bypassing college to play Euro ball, another small thing, Thon Maker finding his out clause is another small thing, alone they do little but combined they begin a tilt.

Now maybe not enough tilt to cause a radical change but there is something that can and a version of it seems to be what most (not myself) college fans seem to want, this baseball rule where kids can either go direct to the NBA from high school or have to commit to 3yrs at the college level. Some modify that to a 2yr rule rather than 3 but the majority of college fans by my view seem to want either a 2 or 3yr rule in place. And while true, those baseball rules would allow a kid to enter the NBA straight out of high school, something I TOTALLY SUPPORT, if a kid blows up in his first year of college that kid is going to realize that before this stupid rule I could have entered the NBA and maybe been a lotto pick and now I have to stay here another year or 2? Nah, I am going to go play me some euro ball and get paid, I may have been willing to give up one season with no pay but 2 or 3 is a totally different decision. Will those kids stay in the college game for 2 or 3yrs, no one knows, baseball has a great outlet for its players that do not want to play in college in its well established minor leagues, the NBA has a poor minor league system, its far more productive and free minor leagues was always the NCAA.

I will guarentee this much, if there is not a pathway direct to the NBA created with a baseball rule the flood gates will open for kids to by pass college all together and flock to europe or some American pathway opens like the old ABA that does allow kids straight from high school to play for them. If you think about it, the ground would be very fertile for an ABA style league to step in, especially if they were smart and played their season at a time that the NBA and the college seasons were not being played, to fill that craving for basketball we all feel during the off seasons. Imagine an ABA type league that played its games during the summer months! Imagine an ABA type of league that had no restrictions of when a kid could enter its league, that was willing to kick out the huge money to pay for the best players, TV would come begging, fans would flock to it that are basketball starved in the off seasons. It is furtile ground and made even more furtile by the growing dislike of the direction the NBA seems intent to go by basketball fans.

 

[DSouthr]

Now I went in to all the above to set the ground work for the potential that change IMO is coming but how will that change effect the college game and specifically UNC. I for one would love to see change occur that eliminates this one season and out deal we have today. I think if kids were once again allowed to enter the NBA right out of high school it would effect about 10 kids in each recruiting cycle, some suggest closer to 20. That means if you are building your teams from primarily top 10 or top 20 players then you are going to be effected big time but if you are building your teams with kids outside of that you are not going to be effected all that much.

It would mean the college game would go back to the day where the talent gaps were not so huge, where coaches developed players over longer periods, and crafted teams out of developed players. It would mean that more of the "Carolina Kids" would be more sought after but the reasons for picking a school would radically change from what they are today. All the sudden a kid like Robinson would be looked at as much more valuable and few would bother to even recruit a kid like Bamba who is universally today looked at as one & done but would have his eyes firmly on the NBA draft if he could bypass college.

A Kalapiri would then have to develop players rather than just roll the ball out and let his talent advantage take over, And isn't that what we Tar Heels want to see, teams and players developed as opposed to one year mercenarys coming in and the coach having to do little more than just stay out of the way?

The one lesson I have learned in this life is that nothing stays the same, change is always coming, it took change to get us where we are and it will take change to get us to another place. You can bury head in sand and believe nothing will happen but change comes no matter if you are looking for it or not. Who knows what form that change will take or how long before we see it but it will come...

 

[DSouthr]

By the way gary, I agree, I think we will end up happy with our 2017 class but it may not include some of the kids we seem to most want. As long as we can get 3 solid big men, I will be very happy.

 

[trestyles]

Yet some colleges like Kansas never get a bad OAD rep. Sheldon(supposed to be OAD) and Diallo(OAD) both failed to live up to expections.

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

Its Jalek Felton

 

[gary-7]

Its Jalek Felton

The player is not yet committed, and it is most certainly not Jalek.

 

[Tom79]

Yet some colleges like Kansas never get a bad OAD rep. Sheldon(supposed to be OAD) and Diallo(OAD) both failed to live up to expections.

Yep, one would think our fan base would get it after a while. Of course some of our fan base weren't even born until the 1990's and have far different expectations than most of us.

David, I agree on '17, our "history" would show we do get a few exceptional kids from time to time, will it be in '17 who knows, but doggone it we need those kids from #30 to #100 in rankings/ratings to show up, be coachable and want to BE at UNC and become a great find like Brice or Marcus.

 

[dukedevilz]

Yet some colleges like Kansas never get a bad OAD rep. Sheldon(supposed to be OAD) and Diallo(OAD) both failed to live up to expections.

I think Kansas actually has the worst representation from OADs as far as not meeting expectations. Chieck Diallo, Kelly Oubre, Cliff Alexander, and Josh Selby all come to mind. Xavier Henry was okay in his one year, but I was expecting a little more from him. The only OADs left after that are Wiggins and Embiid.

 

[trestyles]

You right about Cliff. I give Josh a little slack due to injury and suspensions but you can def. add him.

I think Kansas actually has the worst representation from OADs as far as not meeting expectations. Chieck Diallo, Kelly Oubre, Cliff Alexander, and Josh Selby all come to mind. Xavier Henry was okay in his one year, but I was expecting a little more from him. The only OADs left after that are Wiggins and Embiid.

 

[CJBlue]

I hope it is not P.J.. That would suck.

 

[Archer2]

Players in the 15-50 range have always been the backbone of our program and that hasn't changed, thank God! Those of us who've been around half a century can appreciate the days when recruits actually wanted to go to college and have an opportunity to get an education from a fine institution, one which many would not have been able to attend otherwise. Freshmen were ineligible so they could acclimate themselves to the college environment, both socially and academically. It increased their chances of success both on, and more importantly, off the court where most of their futures lay. What a novel concept.

Now everything is predicated on instant gratification and chasing that potential NBA contract. Note I said potential NBA contract because one thing hasn't changed. The vast majority of college basketball players haven't a snowball's chance in Hades of playing in the NBA. Yet so many are willing to forsake the opportunity of an invaluable college education to chase the pipe dream that is the NBA.

When my first grade class was asked what we wanted to be when we grew up, the typical responses were teacher, doctor, fireman, policeman, etc... If you asked a first grade class the same question today, I venture most would say professional athlete, rock star, or something along those lines. That demonstrates how much our values have changed in half a century. Most of the professions kids of my generation aspired to were obtainable, most of the aspirations of today's generation are not.

When athletically gifted kids are allowed to neglect their studies in order to excel at sports, they are putting all their eggs in the professional athlete basket, in effect dooming most to failure. Parents and AAU handlers who feed this pipe dream are doing their charges a grave disservice. Most reach college age woefully unprepared for the academic challenge of attending college and even if they are fortunate enough to receive an athletic scholarship, they struggle mightily to maintain the meager GPA required to remain eligible.

As long as parents allow kids to play sports at the expense of their academics, this situation isn't going to change. The more ridiculous sports contracts get, the more seductive the lure of the pipe dream becomes.

Want to do away with OAD's? Reinstate freshman ineligibility. Owners would then be forced to increase the number of years removed from college to two or three years. Why? Because they wouldn't be able to use the NCAA as a free one year evaluation system. The added benefit would be that these kids would have a year to perhaps decide that a college education is the best way to ensure a prosperous future.

I know this is long winded and an old fashioned way of looking at things. But I don't think the NBA is ever going to return to drafting kids right out of high school, it just doesn't behoove them to do so. I agree that the baseball system would be ideal for kids and universities but the NBA just isn't incentivized to incorporate it. They have the best of both worlds right now.

 

[gary-7]

The player is not yet committed, and it is most certainly not Jalek.

...and now that the latest Rivals 150 is out, I'm gonna add a little editorial concerning Jalek:
Some of our friendly Rivals reporters will probably deny it, but there is a perception among some that automatically downgrades Carolina Kids, especially those who declare that allegiance early.

I've seen the majority of the 2017 5*s and the idea of Jalek Felton falling out of that category is utterly, patently absurd --- just like it was with Joel Berry in '14. Had Jalek committed to uk I can almost guarantee you his ranking would be higher. Doubters are welcome to flame away.

 

[trestyles]

Yeah I remember Kendall Marshalls tweeting Rivals or Scout these same allegations a few yeas ago. A kid commits early and his rankings dropped.

Looked how Diallo rised in the rankings while he was uncommitted. Yet he wasn't that good.

 

[heels05champs]

Gary, I agree with your rankings assessment. It's ridiculous to think that Felton isn't a top 25 recruit but he would be top 10 if he was committed to UK.

 

[gary-7]

Gary, I agree with your rankings assessment. It's ridiculous to think that Felton isn't a top 25 recruit but he would be top 10 if he was committed to UK.

Yeah... I've posted before that there are folks deeply involed in AAU who still laugh at JB's ranking.
With Jalek, granted he's on the UA circuit this summer, but he is a dominant player and I'll put his game up against any 5* Guard out there.

 

[Ozheelfan]

Yeah... I've posted before that there are folks deeply involed in AAU who still laugh at JB's ranking.
With Jalek, granted he's on the UA circuit this summer, but he is a dominant player and I'll put his game up against any 5* Guard out there.

And, just like JB, as long as he ends up in Carolina Blue who gives a rats a$$ about his ranking!

 

[Sk1310]

Pretty sure Jalek was top 5 before he commited. I remember seeing that.

 

[Bur-Heel]

For the last 4-5 years when a kid pledges to us ...his rankings drop..facts!!

 

[DSouthr]

...and now that the latest Rivals 150 is out, I'm gonna add a little editorial concerning Jalek:
Some of our friendly Rivals reporters will probably deny it, but there is a perception among some that automatically downgrades Carolina Kids, especially those who declare that allegiance early.

I've seen the majority of the 2017 5*s and the idea of Jalek Felton falling out of that category is utterly, patently absurd --- just like it was with Joel Berry in '14. Had Jalek committed to uk I can almost guarantee you his ranking would be higher. Doubters are welcome to flame away.

Over the last several years there seems to be an intent to down grade anything associated with UNC and unfortunately we see it when kids commit to us and we see just the opposite effect when a kid commits to either Ky or duke. There is a lot of anti UNC feeling out there and this IMO is just another way in which they hit back at us. Jalek is no better or worse for committing to us and yes, had he committed to either Ky or duke he very likely could have been top 10.

 

[DSouthr]

Players in the 15-50 range have always been the backbone of our program and that hasn't changed, thank God! Those of us who've been around half a century can appreciate the days when recruits actually wanted to go to college and have an opportunity to get an education from a fine institution, one which many would not have been able to attend otherwise. Freshmen were ineligible so they could acclimate themselves to the college environment, both socially and academically. It increased their chances of success both on, and more importantly, off the court where most of their futures lay. What a novel concept.

Now everything is predicated on instant gratification and chasing that potential NBA contract. Note I said potential NBA contract because one thing hasn't changed. The vast majority of college basketball players haven't a snowball's chance in Hades of playing in the NBA. Yet so many are willing to forsake the opportunity of an invaluable college education to chase the pipe dream that is the NBA.

When my first grade class was asked what we wanted to be when we grew up, the typical responses were teacher, doctor, fireman, policeman, etc... If you asked a first grade class the same question today, I venture most would say professional athlete, rock star, or something along those lines. That demonstrates how much our values have changed in half a century. Most of the professions kids of my generation aspired to were obtainable, most of the aspirations of today's generation are not.

When athletically gifted kids are allowed to neglect their studies in order to excel at sports, they are putting all their eggs in the professional athlete basket, in effect dooming most to failure. Parents and AAU handlers who feed this pipe dream are doing their charges a grave disservice. Most reach college age woefully unprepared for the academic challenge of attending college and even if they are fortunate enough to receive an athletic scholarship, they struggle mightily to maintain the meager GPA required to remain eligible.

As long as parents allow kids to play sports at the expense of their academics, this situation isn't going to change. The more ridiculous sports contracts get, the more seductive the lure of the pipe dream becomes.

Want to do away with OAD's? Reinstate freshman ineligibility. Owners would then be forced to increase the number of years removed from college to two or three years. Why? Because they wouldn't be able to use the NCAA as a free one year evaluation system. The added benefit would be that these kids would have a year to perhaps decide that a college education is the best way to ensure a prosperous future.

I know this is long winded and an old fashioned way of looking at things. But I don't think the NBA is ever going to return to drafting kids right out of high school, it just doesn't behoove them to do so. I agree that the baseball system would be ideal for kids and universities but the NBA just isn't incentivized to incorporate it. They have the best of both worlds right now.

Archer, man, thank you, I have said many times that the NCAA could fight back at the NBA for dictating thing to the NCAA that greatly effect them and IMO a very strong counter measure would be to put freshman ineligibility back in to the college game. Now yes, that would chase off a LOT of the talent coming from the high school ranks away from the NCAA. But what would be left would be guys that know they have to work on their game and guys that want to not only attend the college of their choice but want to represent the school they commit to. IMO, that is what every college fans wants to see, guys like Hansbourgh and Sean May that love their school for life, not just for 1 semester. Guys like MJ that always harken back to their college experience and realize that the college experience went a long way in developing them, not just as players but as young men ready to go out and challenge the world on its own terms.

But Archer, sadly, times have changed and to many want the very best players no matter what, it is now about winning at all costs for the vast majority and they don't care so much what has to happen to make that their reality.

 

[Sk1310]

From the wording, I have a slight feeling it may be Tilmon, as he has started to get some attention nationally. And he's the only player who we've all been banking on so far in 2017 (which I assume is the class you're talking about). Whoever it may be, I do hope at some point in time you'll let us know, as it usually stings worse when the ones we felt we were closing in on suddenly make a left turn elsewhere.

Regarding Roy and OAD's, he said that his strategy was to get a good mix of players, i.e. OAD(s), Contributors, Role Players, etc. and personally, I liked that idea better than becoming a OAD factory. But when the NCAA came knocking, it became pretty much impossible to do that. I don't think Roy will suddenly start pulling in top talent one class removed from the NCAA case being closed, but I think we may see a shift in strategy very soon. The idea that UNC "isn't the place" for a OAD is ridiculous. You have OADs going to schools like Marquette and Purdue, of all places. Hell, Mitchell Robinson is a top 10 recruit currently favoring WKU and LSU! Yet somehow, opposing coaches have managed to generate the belief that you can't be OAD at UNC. And I've never heard Roy say anything like "If you want to be One and Done, don't come to UNC". It's absolutely maddening IMO.

It doesn't look to be Tilmon, he released his final five yesterday and it was: illinois, UNC, Michigan St, Texas and Kansas. Other than Kansas, I don't see a one and done perception school. Tilmon had good this to say about Roy, something along the lines of how he does a great job with bigs and will take care of me.

 

[DSouthr]

It doesn't look to be Tilmon, he released his final five yesterday and it was: illinois, UNC, Michigan St, Texas and Kansas. Other than Kansas, I don't see a one and done perception school. Tilmon had good this to say about Roy, something along the lines of how he does a great job with bigs and will take care of me.

Yeah, I kinda think I know who gary is talking about, it would be a guy that kinda has seen his recruiting greatly increase in the last few months that was not really on the radar that much a year ago. I don't really want to get in to any name dropping at this point, lets see how this plays out. But the chances are we see Roy quietly back off of a kid and we not understand why.

 

[RoseHeel]

It doesn't look to be Tilmon, he released his final five yesterday and it was: illinois, UNC, Michigan St, Texas and Kansas. Other than Kansas, I don't see a one and done perception school. Tilmon had good this to say about Roy, something along the lines of how he does a great job with bigs and will take care of me.

Yep. I realized he cut his list after I posted that. Good news on that front.

Yeah, I kinda think I know who gary is talking about, it would be a guy that kinda has seen his recruiting greatly increase in the last few months that was not really on the radar that much a year ago. I don't really want to get in to any name dropping at this point, lets see how this plays out. But the chances are we see Roy quietly back off of a kid and we not understand why.

My guess would be Knox, then.

But whoever it is, I'm sure it'll be revealed over time.

 

[Steat]

Four topics.....

First, I will do what many are doing and make a wild guess and say that playerGary is talking about is Zion Williamson. He visited UNC last week and left "without' an offer from Roy. The kid was expecting an offer and did'nt get one. The kid was Co-MVP at the NBA camp 2 weeks ago and has skyrocketed to # 17 in the 2018 Rival rankings.

Second,who would have thought that Diamond Stone and Steven Zimmerman would drop to the second round in the NBA draft? Chances are that Zimmerman may be headed to the D League. The mentality was "strickly" OAD with "little" emphasis of heading to a school that has a history of developing big men. Perhaps shoe company shenanigans was a contibuting factor. The NCAA cloud had little to do with it because they were OAD anyway. Stone would have been a first rounder if he had gone to UNC. Stone would have started over Meeks and the Heels would have cut now the nets in the Dance.

Third, Platek is a heavy UNC lean and is the top 3-point shooter in the Nike Summer circuit and didn't make Rival Top 150. The kid has several Division 1 offers. I can't understand it.

Fourth, 8 of the 32 first round draft picks in the NBA draft was foreigh players. OAD is not guaranteed for first round like it use to be.....UNC advantage.

 

[DSouthr]

Four topics.....

First, I will do what many are doing and make a wild guess and say that playerGary is talking about is Zion Williamson. He visited UNC last week and left "without' an offer from Roy. The kid was expecting an offer and did'nt get one. The kid was Co-MVP at the NBA camp 2 weeks ago and has skyrocketed to # 17 in the 2018 Rival rankings.

Second,who would have thought that Diamond Stone and Steven Zimmerman would drop to the second round in the NBA draft? Chances are that Zimmerman may be headed to the D League. The mentality was "strickly" OAD with "little" emphasis of heading to a school that has a history of developing big men. Perhaps shoe company shenanigans was a contibuting factor. The NCAA cloud had little to do with it because they were OAD anyway. Stone would have been a first rounder if he had gone to UNC. Stone would have started over Meeks and the Heels would have cut now the nets in the Dance.

Third, Platek is a heavy UNC lean and is the top 3-point shooter in the Nike Summer circuit and didn't make Rival Top 150. The kid has several Division 1 offers. I can't understand it.

Fourth, 8 of the 32 first round draft picks in the NBA draft was foreigh players. OAD is not guaranteed for first round like it use to be.....UNC advantage.

Steat, gary is talking about a 2017 kid, he isn't referring to Zion. IMO he is talking about either a particular big kid and I really hope it isn't him or a guard. The front court kid I really hope is not the kid gary is referring to is not a 5star. N ow IMO there are some 5stars that have really large egos but that is not news, most 5 stars do have that.

 

[gary-7]

Four topics.....

First, I will do what many are doing and make a wild guess and say that playerGary is talking about is Zion Williamson. He visited UNC last week and left "without' an offer from Roy. The kid was expecting an offer and did'nt get one. The kid was Co-MVP at the NBA camp 2 weeks ago and has skyrocketed to # 17 in the 2018 Rival rankings.

Second,who would have thought that Diamond Stone and Steven Zimmerman would drop to the second round in the NBA draft? Chances are that Zimmerman may be headed to the D League. The mentality was "strickly" OAD with "little" emphasis of heading to a school that has a history of developing big men. Perhaps shoe company shenanigans was a contibuting factor. The NCAA cloud had little to do with it because they were OAD anyway. Stone would have been a first rounder if he had gone to UNC. Stone would have started over Meeks and the Heels would have cut now the nets in the Dance.

Third, Platek is a heavy UNC lean and is the top 3-point shooter in the Nike Summer circuit and didn't make Rival Top 150. The kid has several Division 1 offers. I can't understand it.

Fourth, 8 of the 32 first round draft picks in the NBA draft was foreigh players. OAD is not guaranteed for first round like it use to be.....UNC advantage.

Another case in point with Platek for sure. Carolina has been all the buzz with him and that alone should boost his stock.
Nope.
Had it been dook? Different story...

 

[Sk1310]

Steat, gary is talking about a 2017 kid, he isn't referring to Zion. IMO he is talking about either a particular big kid and I really hope it isn't him or a guard. The front court kid I really hope is not the kid gary is referring to is not a 5star. N ow IMO there are some 5stars that have really large egos but that is not news, most 5 stars do have that.

I think it's PJ..

 

[gary-7]

Over the last several years there seems to be an intent to down grade anything associated with UNC and unfortunately we see it when kids commit to us and we see just the opposite effect when a kid commits to either Ky or duke. There is a lot of anti UNC feeling out there and this IMO is just another way in which they hit back at us. Jalek is no better or worse for committing to us and yes, had he committed to either Ky or duke he very likely could have been top 10.

Dave you are not paranoid. As long as I can remember Carolina Basketball as a brand has simultaneously evoked respect and resentment... and much of the respect was grudging. Any chink in the armor emboldens the haters.

 

[Sk1310]

Another case in point with Platek for sure. Carolina has been all the buzz with him and that alone should boost his stock.
Nope.
Had it been dook? Different story...

Platek would have jumped to a top 3 recruit if Dook was after him. Lol

 

[Archer2]

But Archer, sadly, times have changed and to many want the very best players no matter what, it is now about winning at all costs for the vast majority and they don't care so much what has to happen to make that their reality.

Amen, Dave. And sadly, quite a few UNC fans have become jealous of the recruiting success of UK/dook and would welcome a similar approach from Roy.

 

[Tom79]

Stock rising and falling, article on MSN Sports regarding Skal's rise and Lab's fall...no logic in it but the article points out it is bad for the NBA and basketball.
So who are the mysterious "deciders" in all this mess? Hmm?

 

[dukedevilz]

RSCI Rankings
Final / Summer

Bradley 19 / 28 ( + 9 )
Woods 40 / 40 ( even )
Robinson 64 / 58 ( - 6 )

Williams 90 / Not Ranked

Jackson 9 / 7 ( - 2 )
Pinson 15 / 19 ( + 4 )
Berry 25 / 17 ( - 8 )

Hicks 14 / 12 ( - 2 )
Meeks 56 / 30 ( - 26 )
Britt 93 / 60 ( - 33 )

Paige 28 / 29 ( - 1 )
Johnso 40 / 38 ( - 2 )
Tokoto 57 / 68 ( + 11 )
James 58 / 61 ( + 3 )

McAdoo 6 / 7 ( + 1)
Hairston 11 / 15 ( + 4 )

Over the course of their senior years, the only UNC commits to take a major hit in rankings were Meeks and Britt. I think most would agree, though, that their final rankings were appropriate. Berry did slide a little bit, and he's a heckuva a player, but the 2014 class is stacked up front. Other than that, nothing material happened. Bradley, Williams, and Tokoto got a decent boost in the rankings.

 

[Sk1310]

How did Robinson drop after the monster senior year he had?

 

[dukedevilz]

Fair point. I will concede that Robinson should have gone up in the rankings. He improved drastically from his junior season.

 

[dukedevilz]

I've never understood how you properly gauge 100+ recruits. Sometimes I wonder if some recruiting services just more or less copy the composite rankings from other services. I mean, how do differentiate the 40th best player from the 60th best player? The top players clearly stand out, but after that I think it becomes extremely subjective - and I think it's those 4-star recruits that are subject to the most volatility in player rankings. Robinson, in my opinion, is one who probably got the shaft in those subjective rankings.

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

Another case in point with Platek for sure. Carolina has been all the buzz with him and that alone should boost his stock.
Nope.
Had it been dook? Different story...

Why do you think that is? Honestly. Why would a kid's ranking drop after committing to UNC? Think about it.

And I tend to agree with you that it does.

 

[Steat]

One of our stat guys who has the time should go back and list the Rival Top 150 ranking from 2005-2010 and see how they faired. Most likely, there are already some stats out there on this.