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Different stuff (dook game 2)...

gary-7

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Jan 27, 2003
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...as it's time for some perspective.

While the game in durham was a jobbing by the zebras (remember the 3 FT attempts?), this one (although not perfect) was not. We had a fair enough chance to win this dook game at home and we didn't. So look, very succinctly. here's the bottom line on the outcome:

- Yes, we (um... Caleb) took our requisite batch o' bad shots, and instead of making a couple, we made none of those this time...

- BUT (and this is an important note for many of you here to heed), we had MYRIAD good looks. yet we simply MADE FAR TOO FEW OF THOSE to win. It sucks... and I still feel like crap today over it, but it was what it was.

WITH THAT SAID... here's some much-needed perspective for the board:
As the old saying goes: A coach can get you good shots, but he can't make em for you.
Fact is, an objective watching tells you that the staff did an excellent game-planning job.

- On offense we created MORE than enough open looks, via both set plays and slight adjustments to action in freelance. And many of those were WIDE-SLAP-OPEN. Nonetheless, we shot like 30% from the floor and 5/22 from 3. You're just not gonna beat a decent opponent with that.

- And on defense, I realize not everyone will catch the nuance, we made some nice adjustments for this game that, combined with good effort, anticipated and thwarted dook's preferred offensive actions over and over. With maybe 2 exceptions and lucky rebound bounces, they had to work for every shot.

FINAL MESSAGE: There's nothing out of line about critiquing. For example, I too was hollering at the TV for Hubert to call timeout. If you remember, Sheyer had called his next-to-last one right BEFORE the under-8, so I'm sure Hubert expected a quick return to the bench thereafter, but the refs swallowed their whistles and Mando languished past the under-4. So yes, 100%, Hubert should've called one.

WITH THAT SAID... wanna critique Hubert for the timeout thing? Fair enough. Dean should've called one vs Marquette in 77. Would either have changed the outcome of the respective games? No one knows... but still, fair enough. BUT in sum total. COACHING DID NOT LOSE THIS GAME. Our staff easily won the X-and-O battle Saturday night, and had the players made even a respectable pct of those aforementioned wide-open looks, we take this one wire-to-wire.

There's a difference between critiquing and hysterical bashing, and frankly there's far too much of the latter going on here. I was literally the first one on this board to call for Matt Doherty to be fired, but he had WELL earned it by that time. But starting firing threads in a coach's second season, after the first ended in a Natty game??? GMAB and grow some damned perspective. Sure, we're all pissed off and/or anxious right now, but that sort of bashing does no one any good. I can tell you that it's already caused a very valuable poster to step away (and he soon may not be alone). And make no mistake, recruits and families read these boards.

Anyway... coaching can be a rollercoaster and is an ongoing learning experience. No doubt, this has been a rough sophomore campaign for ours, and yes, hopefully next season will provide a reset and fresh air for Hubert and his guys. However, the current reality is we're playing for the Dance next week, and I, for one, will be pulling for the team (and the staff) as hard as I can...
 
Good post.

Teams are not going to win games when your #3 and #4 scoring options shoot 6 for 28 from the floor and 1 for 13 from three.

Duke was giving Leaky open looks, he is just not a shooter. Interesting that he shot the most times in his five year career in this game.
 
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Good post.

Teams are not going to win games when your #3 and #4 scoring options shoot 6 for 28 from the floor and 1 for 13 from three.

Duke was giving Leaky open looks, he is just not a shooter. Interesting that he shot the most times in his five year career in this game.
Have you seen this scheme.


If Bacot gets doubled its dead.
 
Good post.

Teams are not going to win games when your #3 and #4 scoring options shoot 6 for 28 from the floor and 1 for 13 from three.

Duke was giving Leaky open looks, he is just not a shooter. Interesting that he shot the most times in his five year career in this game.
Yes...he should be setting a back screen for a good shooter at the top of the key on the backside. Making it hard to double.
 
Great perspective, Gary. In practically every loss this season, our outside shooting has been miserable.
Many on here wanna blame our struggles on Hubert/staff. As stated, they aren’t the players missing those
open shots. Yeah, we have some glaring issues, but MAKING OPEN SHOTS is issue # 1.
 
Yes...he should be setting a back screen for a good shooter at the top of the key on the backside. Making it hard to double.
I do think this should be used more re. Why doesn't Leaky ever set a flare screen for Love/Davis when his man doubles Bacot?
 
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WITH THAT SAID... here's some much-needed perspective for the board:
As the old saying goes:
A coach can get you good shots, but he can't make em for you.
Fact is, an objective watching tells you that the staff did an excellent game-planning job.

- On offense we created MORE than enough open looks, via both set plays and slight adjustments to action in freelance. And many of those were WIDE-SLAP-OPEN. Nonetheless, we shot like 30% from the floor and 5/22 from 3. You're just not gonna beat a decent opponent with that.
Spot on G7, it's pretty much the story of season.
We simply didn't make shots this year, bad shots nor good shots, and we had plenty of the latter.☹️
 
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...as it's time for some perspective.

While the game in durham was a jobbing by the zebras (remember the 3 FT attempts?), this one (although not perfect) was not. We had a fair enough chance to win this dook game at home and we didn't. So look, very succinctly. here's the bottom line on the outcome:

- Yes, we (um... Caleb) took our requisite batch o' bad shots, and instead of making a couple, we made none of those this time...

- BUT (and this is an important note for many of you here to heed), we had MYRIAD good looks. yet we simply MADE FAR TOO FEW OF THOSE to win. It sucks... and I still feel like crap today over it, but it was what it was.

WITH THAT SAID... here's some much-needed perspective for the board:
As the old saying goes: A coach can get you good shots, but he can't make em for you.
Fact is, an objective watching tells you that the staff did an excellent game-planning job.

- On offense we created MORE than enough open looks, via both set plays and slight adjustments to action in freelance. And many of those were WIDE-SLAP-OPEN. Nonetheless, we shot like 30% from the floor and 5/22 from 3. You're just not gonna beat a decent opponent with that.

- And on defense, I realize not everyone will catch the nuance, we made some nice adjustments for this game that, combined with good effort, anticipated and thwarted dook's preferred offensive actions over and over. With maybe 2 exceptions and lucky rebound bounces, they had to work for every shot.

FINAL MESSAGE: There's nothing out of line about critiquing. For example, I too was hollering at the TV for Hubert to call timeout. If you remember, Sheyer had called his next-to-last one right BEFORE the under-8, so I'm sure Hubert expected a quick return to the bench thereafter, but the refs swallowed their whistles and Mando languished past the under-4. So yes, 100%, Hubert should've called one.

WITH THAT SAID... wanna critique Hubert for the timeout thing? Fair enough. Dean should've called one vs Marquette in 77. Would either have changed the outcome of the respective games? No one knows... but still, fair enough. BUT in sum total. COACHING DID NOT LOSE THIS GAME. Our staff easily won the X-and-O battle Saturday night, and had the players made even a respectable pct of those aforementioned wide-open looks, we take this one wire-to-wire.

There's a difference between critiquing and hysterical bashing, and frankly there's far too much of the latter going on here. I was literally the first one on this board to call for Matt Doherty to be fired, but he had WELL earned it by that time. But starting firing threads in a coach's second season, after the first ended in a Natty game??? GMAB and grow some damned perspective. Sure, we're all pissed off and/or anxious right now, but that sort of bashing does no one any good. I can tell you that it's already caused a very valuable poster to step away (and he soon may not be alone). And make no mistake, recruits and families read these boards.

Anyway... coaching can be a rollercoaster and is an ongoing learning experience. No doubt, this has been a rough sophomore campaign for ours, and yes, hopefully next season will provide a reset and fresh air for Hubert and his guys. However, the current reality is we're playing for the Dance next week, and I, for one, will be pulling for the team (and the staff) as hard as I can...

good analysis Gary. only thing Id offer an opposing thought on is the coaches scheme getting us open looks. I actually think it was more Dook saying hey we will let Leaky shoot as much as he wants and take our chances. we were dumb enough to let Leaky shoot 16 times.
 
...as it's time for some perspective.

While the game in durham was a jobbing by the zebras (remember the 3 FT attempts?), this one (although not perfect) was not. We had a fair enough chance to win this dook game at home and we didn't. So look, very succinctly. here's the bottom line on the outcome:

- Yes, we (um... Caleb) took our requisite batch o' bad shots, and instead of making a couple, we made none of those this time...

- BUT (and this is an important note for many of you here to heed), we had MYRIAD good looks. yet we simply MADE FAR TOO FEW OF THOSE to win. It sucks... and I still feel like crap today over it, but it was what it was.

WITH THAT SAID... here's some much-needed perspective for the board:
As the old saying goes: A coach can get you good shots, but he can't make em for you.
Fact is, an objective watching tells you that the staff did an excellent game-planning job.

- On offense we created MORE than enough open looks, via both set plays and slight adjustments to action in freelance. And many of those were WIDE-SLAP-OPEN. Nonetheless, we shot like 30% from the floor and 5/22 from 3. You're just not gonna beat a decent opponent with that.

- And on defense, I realize not everyone will catch the nuance, we made some nice adjustments for this game that, combined with good effort, anticipated and thwarted dook's preferred offensive actions over and over. With maybe 2 exceptions and lucky rebound bounces, they had to work for every shot.

FINAL MESSAGE: There's nothing out of line about critiquing. For example, I too was hollering at the TV for Hubert to call timeout. If you remember, Sheyer had called his next-to-last one right BEFORE the under-8, so I'm sure Hubert expected a quick return to the bench thereafter, but the refs swallowed their whistles and Mando languished past the under-4. So yes, 100%, Hubert should've called one.

WITH THAT SAID... wanna critique Hubert for the timeout thing? Fair enough. Dean should've called one vs Marquette in 77. Would either have changed the outcome of the respective games? No one knows... but still, fair enough. BUT in sum total. COACHING DID NOT LOSE THIS GAME. Our staff easily won the X-and-O battle Saturday night, and had the players made even a respectable pct of those aforementioned wide-open looks, we take this one wire-to-wire.

There's a difference between critiquing and hysterical bashing, and frankly there's far too much of the latter going on here. I was literally the first one on this board to call for Matt Doherty to be fired, but he had WELL earned it by that time. But starting firing threads in a coach's second season, after the first ended in a Natty game??? GMAB and grow some damned perspective. Sure, we're all pissed off and/or anxious right now, but that sort of bashing does no one any good. I can tell you that it's already caused a very valuable poster to step away (and he soon may not be alone). And make no mistake, recruits and families read these boards.

Anyway... coaching can be a rollercoaster and is an ongoing learning experience. No doubt, this has been a rough sophomore campaign for ours, and yes, hopefully next season will provide a reset and fresh air for Hubert and his guys. However, the current reality is we're playing for the Dance next week, and I, for one, will be pulling for the team (and the staff) as hard as I can...
Probably the best after game summary you have submitted all season. Many who find enjoyment in finding faults and pointing fingers probably desperately need to read your piece again to get a honest and true perspective of how the season actually was…Yes everyone is disappointed and frustrated but to act like it is the end of the world is silly and childish. Again thank you for being fair and calling it like it really is…
 
Black has no business taking twice as many shots as Bacot who had 0 field goal attempts in last 13:07 of the game. You would think coaches have some role to play in having guards get the ball to the best player.
this isn’t leaving my mind now that you’ve pointed it out and i can’t watch again and look at the stats.

throw in that post presser from hubert and it’s a ship that’s lost it’s course.
 
It wasn't that at all. There were open looks galore.
i don’t disagree. but i think over the course of the game, Dook tightened up their rotations and a vast majority of the truly open looks were Leaky and it wasn’t happenstance.
 
i don’t disagree. but i think over the course of the game, Dook tightened up their rotations and a vast majority of the truly open looks were Leaky and it wasn’t happenstance.
Oh, they definitely tried to adjust to thwart our early looks, and Leaky's often came late in shot-clocks, BUT he had every opportunity even then to drive and dunk on somebody --- but I guess that was a one-time deal from Monday (sigh).....

Bottom line is players hafta make plays. Ours were sure as hell put in a position to do so.
 
It’s really hard to win when you have one of the least efficient high usage guards in the country (Caleb) AND have maybe the worst offensive player for anyone who plays 30+ minutes/game (Leaky).

An extremely limited team.

I wonder what would be better. If this team had Manek instead of Nance. Or if it had a plus offensive player instead of Leaky and Nance.

Shoutout to RJ Davis btw. That kid competes. He isn’t the most talented or biggest kid. But I think he and the staff have gotten a lot out of him. He has to shoulder a lot because Caleb and Leaky are zeroes A LOT. Credit to RJ.
 
...as it's time for some perspective.

While the game in durham was a jobbing by the zebras (remember the 3 FT attempts?), this one (although not perfect) was not. We had a fair enough chance to win this dook game at home and we didn't. So look, very succinctly. here's the bottom line on the outcome:

- Yes, we (um... Caleb) took our requisite batch o' bad shots, and instead of making a couple, we made none of those this time...

- BUT (and this is an important note for many of you here to heed), we had MYRIAD good looks. yet we simply MADE FAR TOO FEW OF THOSE to win. It sucks... and I still feel like crap today over it, but it was what it was.

WITH THAT SAID... here's some much-needed perspective for the board:
As the old saying goes: A coach can get you good shots, but he can't make em for you.
Fact is, an objective watching tells you that the staff did an excellent game-planning job.

- On offense we created MORE than enough open looks, via both set plays and slight adjustments to action in freelance. And many of those were WIDE-SLAP-OPEN. Nonetheless, we shot like 30% from the floor and 5/22 from 3. You're just not gonna beat a decent opponent with that.

- And on defense, I realize not everyone will catch the nuance, we made some nice adjustments for this game that, combined with good effort, anticipated and thwarted dook's preferred offensive actions over and over. With maybe 2 exceptions and lucky rebound bounces, they had to work for every shot.

FINAL MESSAGE: There's nothing out of line about critiquing. For example, I too was hollering at the TV for Hubert to call timeout. If you remember, Sheyer had called his next-to-last one right BEFORE the under-8, so I'm sure Hubert expected a quick return to the bench thereafter, but the refs swallowed their whistles and Mando languished past the under-4. So yes, 100%, Hubert should've called one.

WITH THAT SAID... wanna critique Hubert for the timeout thing? Fair enough. Dean should've called one vs Marquette in 77. Would either have changed the outcome of the respective games? No one knows... but still, fair enough. BUT in sum total. COACHING DID NOT LOSE THIS GAME. Our staff easily won the X-and-O battle Saturday night, and had the players made even a respectable pct of those aforementioned wide-open looks, we take this one wire-to-wire.

There's a difference between critiquing and hysterical bashing, and frankly there's far too much of the latter going on here. I was literally the first one on this board to call for Matt Doherty to be fired, but he had WELL earned it by that time. But starting firing threads in a coach's second season, after the first ended in a Natty game??? GMAB and grow some damned perspective. Sure, we're all pissed off and/or anxious right now, but that sort of bashing does no one any good. I can tell you that it's already caused a very valuable poster to step away (and he soon may not be alone). And make no mistake, recruits and families read these boards.

Anyway... coaching can be a rollercoaster and is an ongoing learning experience. No doubt, this has been a rough sophomore campaign for ours, and yes, hopefully next season will provide a reset and fresh air for Hubert and his guys. However, the current reality is we're playing for the Dance next week, and I, for one, will be pulling for the team (and the staff) as hard as I can...
Good info Gary. But, Most of the open looks we had were due to them allowing us to shoot it. Great game plan by the pukes, and easy to see of course. Hopefully in the near future we can get some sharp shooters. It’s been really disappointing, to all involved, that d1 guys can’t even make wide open threes at a decent rate. If and when that happens, everything changes; double teams, driving lanes, and entry passes.
 
Been the same ol' for awhile this year. Very hard to win when you can't knock down good looks. You can't double contested 2's to give up clean 3's nowadays, but with us #332 from 3land you can. We got plenty of good looks from the offense, ya gotta make some. Some !!!!
 
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...as it's time for some perspective.

While the game in durham was a jobbing by the zebras (remember the 3 FT attempts?), this one (although not perfect) was not. We had a fair enough chance to win this dook game at home and we didn't. So look, very succinctly. here's the bottom line on the outcome:

- Yes, we (um... Caleb) took our requisite batch o' bad shots, and instead of making a couple, we made none of those this time...

- BUT (and this is an important note for many of you here to heed), we had MYRIAD good looks. yet we simply MADE FAR TOO FEW OF THOSE to win. It sucks... and I still feel like crap today over it, but it was what it was.

WITH THAT SAID... here's some much-needed perspective for the board:
As the old saying goes: A coach can get you good shots, but he can't make em for you.
Fact is, an objective watching tells you that the staff did an excellent game-planning job.

- On offense we created MORE than enough open looks, via both set plays and slight adjustments to action in freelance. And many of those were WIDE-SLAP-OPEN. Nonetheless, we shot like 30% from the floor and 5/22 from 3. You're just not gonna beat a decent opponent with that.

- And on defense, I realize not everyone will catch the nuance, we made some nice adjustments for this game that, combined with good effort, anticipated and thwarted dook's preferred offensive actions over and over. With maybe 2 exceptions and lucky rebound bounces, they had to work for every shot.

FINAL MESSAGE: There's nothing out of line about critiquing. For example, I too was hollering at the TV for Hubert to call timeout. If you remember, Sheyer had called his next-to-last one right BEFORE the under-8, so I'm sure Hubert expected a quick return to the bench thereafter, but the refs swallowed their whistles and Mando languished past the under-4. So yes, 100%, Hubert should've called one.

WITH THAT SAID... wanna critique Hubert for the timeout thing? Fair enough. Dean should've called one vs Marquette in 77. Would either have changed the outcome of the respective games? No one knows... but still, fair enough. BUT in sum total. COACHING DID NOT LOSE THIS GAME. Our staff easily won the X-and-O battle Saturday night, and had the players made even a respectable pct of those aforementioned wide-open looks, we take this one wire-to-wire.

There's a difference between critiquing and hysterical bashing, and frankly there's far too much of the latter going on here. I was literally the first one on this board to call for Matt Doherty to be fired, but he had WELL earned it by that time. But starting firing threads in a coach's second season, after the first ended in a Natty game??? GMAB and grow some damned perspective. Sure, we're all pissed off and/or anxious right now, but that sort of bashing does no one any good. I can tell you that it's already caused a very valuable poster to step away (and he soon may not be alone). And make no mistake, recruits and families read these boards.

Anyway... coaching can be a rollercoaster and is an ongoing learning experience. No doubt, this has been a rough sophomore campaign for ours, and yes, hopefully next season will provide a reset and fresh air for Hubert and his guys. However, the current reality is we're playing for the Dance next week, and I, for one, will be pulling for the team (and the staff) as hard as I can...
Thanks Gary. My question to you and the board about the coaching is what I see is a lack of accountability for the players? When I see a lack of effort in the defensive end, or a one on five wild drive in the lane with no prayer of going in, or a stagnant offense that many times results in a late shot to avoid a shot clock violation, it concerns me that roles and expectations have not been defined. Confidence is a huge factor in the success of any player. Our bench guys are on eggshells out there, in my opinion. I think we have a few guys on that bench that could create some competition for playing time. I will never be convinced that Leaky Black spotting up beyond the arc all the time is the best thing for our offense. I believe he is athletic enough to create mismatches around the rim if given a chance. And it drives me nuts that we don’t push transition! We’re not good in offensive sets, but we are when we push the basketball! Again, creating roles for our bench players, and having accountability for our starters will go a long way. I think we had only 5 players score in the Duke game. I would have loved to see more Puff, Nickel, Styles, Trimble, McKoy, and Robinson this year, but I’m afraid that the ship has sailed on their confidence. I really like Hubert and hope he is our coach for a long time, but I have to admit that I’m concerned about the trajectory of the program. Just my opinion here. I don’t profess to know a lot about the x’s and o’s of basketball, as I have learned a lot from reading the posts on this board. I’m relaying what I see. Thanks in advance.
 
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Thanks Gary. My question to you and the board about the coaching is what I see is a lack of accountability for the players? When I see a lack of effort in the defensive end, or a one on five wild drive in the lane with no prayer of going in, or a stagnant offense that many times results in a late shot to avoid a shot clock violation, it concerns me that roles and expectations have not been defined. Confidence is a huge factor in the success of any player. Our bench guys are on eggshells out there, in my opinion. I think we have a few guys on that bench that could create some competition for playing time. I will never be convinced that Leaky Black spotting up beyond the arc all the time is the best thing for our offense. I believe he is athletic enough to create mismatches around the rim if given a chance. And it drives me nuts that we don’t push transition! We’re not good in offensive sets, but we are when we push the basketball! Again, creating roles for our bench players, and having accountability for our starters will go a long way. I think we had only 5 players score in the Duke game. I would have loved to see more Puff, Nickel, Styles, Trimble, McKoy, and Robinson this year, but I’m afraid that the ship has sailed on their confidence. I really like Hubert and hope he is our coach for a long time, but I have to admit that I’m concerned about the trajectory of the program. Just my opinion here. I don’t profess to know a lot about the x’s and o’s of basketball, as I have learned a lot from reading the posts on this board. I’m relaying what I see. Thanks in advance.
Saving gory detail for later, the composition of this roster was a bit of a trap for the staff, in that they had to coach last seaosn's team for the short term as opposed to within the parameters of a system --- and yes,, we damn near purloined a Natty., but that was just (in Joel Berry's recent words) "not sustainable"... as the odds catch up with you when your looks aren't consistently good.

Dean taught coaches to play the "long game" --- do things soundly and your odds for good results are high, but frankly, there are some players on ths team who just aren't compatible with that sort of coaching --- including unfortunately, our most gifted player.

I'll post something in more detail once our season is over. Hope that helps...
 
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Saving gory detail for later, the composition of this roster was a bit of a trap for the staff, in that they had to coach last seaosn's team for the short term as opposed to within the parameters of a system --- and yes,, we damn near purloined a Natty., but that was just (in Joel Berry's recent words) "not sustainabkle"... as the odds catch up with you when your looks aren't consistently good.

Dean taught coaches to play the "long game" --- do things soundly and your odds for good results are high, but frankly, there are some players on ths team who just aren't compatible with that sort of coaching --- including unfortunately, our most gifted player.

I'll post something in more detail once our season is over. Hope that helps...
Thanks Gary.
 
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I can't imagine many boards having lower basketball IQ than this one.:oops:
Bs. Think for yourself for a change. It does get old. Lol you don’t like what I post, so you speak through Gary. As usual. Don’t agree with someone, so you question their b ball iq? Are you 10?
 
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So you don’t think leaky was left open most all night? Interesting and it’s not arguable. Lol. Don’t be so arrogant man. Too many people on here drink your koolaid.
His shooting in recent games would make that a rather risky deal, no?. We were creating good, open looks from the get-go --- that was literally the first note I made Saturday --- and in general, I just don't see the value in being so wedded to a negative narrative so as to supersede giving our coaches credit where it's due.
 
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His shooting in recent games would make that a rather risky deal, no?. We were creating good, open looks from the get-go --- that was literally the first note I made Saturday --- and in general, I just don't see the value in being so wedded to a negative narrative so as to supersede giving our coaches credit where it's due.
Gary I promise I try to be positive more than most. And trust me, I understand our staff needs all the good credit they can get right now, especially in a time where there is not much good to look at. Thanks for discussing.
 
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