Does anybody think the ACC is even the 3rd best Basketball Conference this year?

[WoadBlue]

One of the funny things is that not so long ago a rather large number of fans of ACC basketball were more than confident in asserting that ACC basketball was 'big enough' to keep the conference in enough money to remain not merely intact but more than viable, top notch, in all sports .

I've been asserting for a very long time that football is MUCH bigger than basketball, so much so that the richest football leagues (richest in both revenue and football history) could start destroying all other leagues as they desire if the TV viewer numbers and revenue do not change rather significantly (see the SEC taking super rich Texas and Oklahoma for an example). Along with that, I have asserted repeatedly that at some point even the best basketball league that falls far behind the richest leagues in revenue will see its basketball quality falter because that league's members must prioritize football in order to survive. Not thrive - but survive.

In the intervening years, the Big Ten and, especially, the SEC have only gotten richer and richer. There are a number of projections that indicate that when those 2 super wealthy leagues sign their new deals, each will have its members paid at least 40 million dollars per year more than ACC members receive. 40 million times 14 members is a nice little chunk of change.

If Vandy and Northwestern, Miss St and Rutgers, are paid 40 million more per year than UNC, Dook, and Syracuse, how long before it becomes normal for 6th and 7th and even 8th place teams in SEC and BT basketball to be better than 2nd and 3rd place ACC teams?

More important, if Vandy is paid 40 million per year more than UNC, how long can UNC football afford to remain in the ACC? That same question is valid for UVA, VT, MooU, Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami football. It is valid for Dook football only if UNC has a rich landing spot and gets to take Dook with it.

No, this aint close to your daddy's ACC basketball in any sense, and unless ACC football gets richer, this is the new normal for ACC basketball.

Unless the next new normal is an ACC lacking any school that is halfway valuable in football, which 'football schools' will be replaced with the likes of Davidson and Richmond and William&Mary and Furman. And then basketball can be King over the ACC.

 

[gauchoheel]

According to Bartorvik we are 5th: https://barttorvik.com/trank.php?ye...1&top=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=All&mingames=0#

I don't think we're particularly close to the B1G, SEC, or Big 12 unfortunately.

 

[FORREST GUMP]

According to Bartorvik we are 5th: https://barttorvik.com/trank.php?ye...1&top=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=All&mingames=0#

I don't think we're particularly close to the B1G, SEC, or Big 12 unfortunately.

Sad state what Carolina basketball has become hope there better days a head we use to choose who we wanted now football schools out recruit us on!

 

[WoadBlue]

Sad state what Carolina basketball has become hope there better days a head we use to choose who we wanted now football schools out recruit us on!

'Football schools' now often out recruit UNC basketball for key players because football is MUCH bigger than basketball, which makes the athletics departments of major football schools richer and more influential than athletics departments of basketball giants that have poor football history.

In terms of athletics department wealth and influence, Indiana, with 5 National Championships in basketball, is near the bottom of the Big Ten, definitely ahead of only Northwestern and newbies Maryland and Rutgers. Rutgers has as poor a football history as any school in a Major conference. Maryland has a low mediocre football history dating back to the early 1960s, and Maryland's football fan base is so poor it makes the UNC football fan base seem fairly large and even passionate.

It works the same way when comparing conferences as comparing schools within a conference. The SEC (Tsar of college football) is about to become so rich and powerful that its bottom feeder basketball programs will be able to hire winning coaches away from ACC programs.

If the ACC remains as is, the future of ACC sports is not bright. The only way that ACC football can hope to close much of the gap with the SEC and Big Ten is to cut a couple of small private schools and replace them with large state schools that have recent histories that mark each as having potential to win big.

And on top of that, the ACC would need to be part of a group of football-based conferences that secede from the NCAA and form their own national tournament. Such a basketball tournament would maximize the moneys available to the top basketball conferences and schools, because the NCAA would not be distributing money to some 15-18 leagues that should not have auto bids and the resulting windfall.




.

 

[WoadBlue]

If your league sucks, and you do not win it, then your suckage level is indeed very high.

Top 25 teams by conference

ACC - 1
Big Ten - 4
SEC - 5
Big 12 - 5
Pac - 3

Big East - 4
AAC - 1
WCC - 1
MWC - 1

 

[Archer2]

One of the funny things is that not so long ago a rather large number of fans of ACC basketball were more than confident in asserting that ACC basketball was 'big enough' to keep the conference in enough money to remain not merely intact but more than viable, top notch, in all sports .

I've been asserting for a very long time that football is MUCH bigger than basketball, so much so that the richest football leagues (richest in both revenue and football history) could start destroying all other leagues as they desire if the TV viewer numbers and revenue do not change rather significantly (see the SEC taking super rich Texas and Oklahoma for an example). Along with that, I have asserted repeatedly that at some point even the best basketball league that falls far behind the richest leagues in revenue will see its basketball quality falter because that league's members must prioritize football in order to survive. Not thrive - but survive.

In the intervening years, the Big Ten and, especially, the SEC have only gotten richer and richer. There are a number of projections that indicate that when those 2 super wealthy leagues sign their new deals, each will have its members paid at least 40 million dollars per year more than ACC members receive. 40 million times 14 members is a nice little chunk of change.

If Vandy and Northwestern, Miss St and Rutgers, are paid 40 million more per year than UNC, Dook, and Syracuse, how long before it becomes normal for 6th and 7th and even 8th place teams in SEC and BT basketball to be better than 2nd and 3rd place ACC teams?

More important, if Vandy is paid 40 million per year more than UNC, how long can UNC football afford to remain in the ACC? That same question is valid for UVA, VT, MooU, Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami football. It is valid for Dook football only if UNC has a rich landing spot and gets to take Dook with it.

No, this aint close to your daddy's ACC basketball in any sense, and unless ACC football gets richer, this is the new normal for ACC basketball.

Unless the next new normal is an ACC lacking any school that is halfway valuable in football, which 'football schools' will be replaced with the likes of Davidson and Richmond and William&Mary and Furman. And then basketball can be King over the ACC.

If UNC was kicking arse, you wouldn’t even be seen on this board. And you then write an “I told you so, football is sooo much more important than basketball“ post. You’re pouring salt in the wound and loving it. Sad.

 

[WoadBlue]

If UNC was kicking arse, you wouldn’t even be seen on this board. And you then write an “I told you so, football is sooo much more important than basketball“ post. You’re pouring salt in the wound and loving it. Sad.

UNC winning big at basketball this year would not alter the fiscal realities a single teeny bit. That is perhaps the most important thing that basketball-only/first fans fail to discern. ACC basketball could have 7 or 8 or even 9 teams ranked right now, and that widely projected revenue gap would be exactly the same - because it is all about football, and preponderantly about football average attendance and national TV ratings per game.

With far too many private schools and smaller state schools, and only 2 Flagship universities and only 3 Land Grant schools, and very little football history, the ACC is up the creek without a paddle. Perhaps everybody who posts about UNC hoops with some regularity would prefer not to think about the looming crisis until the blood is flowing. But perhaps 1 or 2 of them might like to think about what is coming and what kinds of extreme moves might be possible and successful enough to keep all the most important ACC members in the conference with enough revenue projected so that the league is not ridiculously behind the SEC and Big Ten.

 

[midline]

Unfortunately, the ACC is down. And to a degree has been down for a while. But it has been covered up by one super team coming out of the conference and winning a national championship every couple of years. But this year, Duke is the only power team I see. Maybe VA Tech is 2nd best, but they aren't a threat to win the NC. UNC, UVA, NCSU aren't scaring anybody that is good. Wake still trying to dig out of their hole from when Skip died. GT is GT. Clemson is Clemson. Appears Jim is just playing out the string at Miami as long as they will cut him that check. It certainly isn't the good ole days anymore.

 

[gunslingerdick]

It’s embarrassingly bad. The worst I’ve ever seen and I’ve been watching ACC ball for close to 40 years.

 

[WoadBlue]

It’s embarrassingly bad. The worst I’ve ever seen and I’ve been watching ACC ball for close to 40 years.

I believe you are correct. And I think it probable that there has never been a single year in ACC basketball history worse than this. And the future is not bright. One of the 2 best coaches in UNC history just retired. The most successful coach in league history is retiring after this season. Easily the most successful head coach in not just Syracuse history but the history of northeastern basketball. Boeheim, has to be within 2 or 3 years of retiring .

Does anybody think the Orange have a snow ball's chance in Hell of replacing Boeheim with someone who will do half as well? When Cuse basketball is not very good and is not drawing huge numbers of northeasterners to watch on TV, Syracuse is as invaluable to the ACC as BC.

Is it possible that both UNC and Dook basketball have refused to do actual coaching searches to replace Legends, instead relying on former players, because they know that in this market they easily could be out spent by any number of 'football schools' in the SEC and Big Ten?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Pomeroy currently ranks us 5th best among conferences. Here are the ACC rankings for the last few years. Shows a gradual decline.

The last time the ACC was #1 was in 2007.

Year	ACC Rank	Who Was #1?
2022	5	Big 12
2021	5	Big 10
2020	4	Big 10
2019	3	Big 12
2018	2	Big 12
2017	2	Big 12
2016	2	Big 12

 

[DSouthr]

UNC winning big at basketball this year would not alter the fiscal realities a single teeny bit. That is perhaps the most important thing that basketball-only/first fans fail to discern. ACC basketball could have 7 or 8 or even 9 teams ranked right now, and that widely projected revenue gap would be exactly the same - because it is all about football, and preponderantly about football average attendance and national TV ratings per game.

With far too many private schools and smaller state schools, and only 2 Flagship universities and only 3 Land Grant schools, and very little football history, the ACC is up the creek without a paddle. Perhaps everybody who posts about UNC hoops with some regularity would prefer not to think about the looming crisis until the blood is flowing. But perhaps 1 or 2 of them might like to think about what is coming and what kinds of extreme moves might be possible and successful enough to keep all the most important ACC members in the conference with enough revenue projected so that the league is not ridiculously behind the SEC and Big Ten.

So you are saying that UNC fans that prefer Basketball to another sport are not as mentally gifted as you, clearly a guy that prefers football, to we lesser fans that prefer basketball? I enjoy UNC football, did best I could to never miss a UNC football game even when we were bottom dwellers, I simply enjoy UNC basketball more, I enjoy UNC basketball more than NFL football as well. Our great history of UNC basketball and the men that have led the way has had me as a fan for life.

Coaches come and go, great coaches retire, I find it disrespectful to close the book on Hubert now, as you seem to imply, when you have ZERO idea if Hubert will or will not be inducted in to the very same halls of fame as our last 2 HOF coaches have been. Yet you throw that out there as to weaken the UNC basketball brand so you can puff up the sport you prefer? EXCUSE ME while I tune you out... I will continue to be a fan of both basketball and football, I will continue to prefer basketball and I will do so while NOT looking to trash UNC football!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Unfortunately, the ACC is down. And to a degree has been down for a while. But it has been covered up by one super team coming out of the conference and winning a national championship every couple of years. But this year, Duke is the only power team I see. Maybe VA Tech is 2nd best, but they aren't a threat to win the NC. UNC, UVA, NCSU aren't scaring anybody that is good. Wake still trying to dig out of their hole from when Skip died. GT is GT. Clemson is Clemson. Appears Jim is just playing out the string at Miami as long as they will cut him that check. It certainly isn't the good ole days anymore.

Hard to disagree, although I still think we will be very good by tournament time. I'll be disappointed if we don't at least get to the Sweet Sixteen.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

So you are saying that UNC fans that prefer Basketball to another sport are not as mentally gifted as you, clearly a guy that prefers football, to we lesser fans that prefer basketball? I enjoy UNC football, did best I could to never miss a UNC football game even when we were bottom dwellers, I simply enjoy UNC basketball more, I enjoy UNC basketball more than NFL football as well. Our great history of UNC basketball and the men that have led the way has had me as a fan for life.

Coaches come and go, great coaches retire, I find it disrespectful to close the book on Hubert now, as you seem to imply, when you have ZERO idea if Hubert will or will not be inducted in to the very same halls of fame as our last 2 HOF coaches have been. Yet you throw that out there as to weaken the UNC basketball brand so you can puff up the sport you prefer? EXCUSE ME while I tune you out... I will continue to be a fan of both basketball and football, I will continue to prefer basketball and I will do so while NOT looking to trash UNC football!

While I agree with your sentiments, I think you are reading too much into his comments. I took him as pointing out that football rules the cash registers, and that that is and will spill over to hurt basketball in leagues that don't rake it in with football.

I'm not sure that is necessarily true, but I think it's a fair point - and a legitimate concern.

The real question is: if he is right, what should the ACC (and individual teams in the ACC) be doing about it?

Upgrading football seems like an obvious answer. But how do you do that? Will NIL make it easier or harder for ACC schools to attract top FB players? Will ACC schools (and the apparel companies, etc.) pay enough to lure top coaches to our shores? I don't follow football that closely, but my sense is that we are losing that competition.

Alternatively, should we go all in on restoring ACC basketball at or near the top every year? How can we do that? Will hiring within the family prove good enough at UNC and Duke? We''ll know pretty soon. Can Syracuse stay relevant when Boeheim leaves (after this year or next, I assume)? And the NIL question remains: are our kids' supporters as attractive as those "paying" players at other big schools?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

This thread has me wondering if the number of creampuffs in the ACC has anything to do with the league's recent decline. Or could it be the number of teams good enough to (probably) see postseason play? Or both?

Year	Conf Rank	All Creampuffs	Supercreampuffs	Tourney bound
2022	5	5	1	5
2021	5	3	2	4
2020	4	5	1	3
2019	3	4	1	8
2018	2	2	1	9
2017	2	2	1	7
2016	2	2	1	8

Creampuffs = teams with a Pomeroy ranking of 100 or worse
Supercreampuffs = Pomeroy ranking 150 or worse
Tourney bound = Pomeroy ranking 40 or better

Yes, all of those are subjective, but I think they are reasonable and I had to draw the line somewhere.

 

[tarheel0910]

While I agree with your sentiments, I think you are reading too much into his comments. I took him as pointing out that football rules the cash registers, and that that is and will spill over to hurt basketball in leagues that don't rake it in with football.

I'm not sure that is necessarily true, but I think it's a fair point - and a legitimate concern.

The real question is: if he is right, what should the ACC (and individual teams in the ACC) be doing about it?

Upgrading football seems like an obvious answer. But how do you do that? Will NIL make it easier or harder for ACC schools to attract top FB players? Will ACC schools (and the apparel companies, etc.) pay enough to lure top coaches to our shores? I don't follow football that closely, but my sense is that we are losing that competition.

Alternatively, should we go all in on restoring ACC basketball at or near the top every year? How can we do that? Will hiring within the family prove good enough at UNC and Duke? We''ll know pretty soon. Can Syracuse stay relevant when Boeheim leaves (after this year or next, I assume)? And the NIL question remains: are our kids' supporters as attractive as those "paying" players at other big schools?

If you posted on blitz, you would know he's doing both. His main goal is to point out anything negative about anything associated with UNC. And he will never post anything positive. When things are going good, you have to call the police for a welfare check because he disappears.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

If you posted on blitz, you would know he's doing both. His main goal is to point out anything negative about anything associated with UNC. And he will never post anything positive. When things are going good, you have to call the police for a welfare check because he disappears.

That's a shame. His posts usually seem well-reasoned, so I'd like to hear some positive views from him.

 

[midline]

Hard to disagree, although I still think we will be very good by tournament time. I'll be disappointed if we don't at least get to the Sweet Sixteen.

I would love to agree with you. But that was my mindset the last couple of years. Always fully believing that the corner would be turned and UNC would return to the UNC it used to be. Now I will wait for proof before I get my hopes up. I actually looked for silver linings this year. That is until the Kentucky game when UNC was not only outplayed, but out hustled in every area.

 

[elipse]

Dickie V - would disagree.
“Its the ACC Baby”! Ohhhhh - Ohhhhh - it’s unbelievable Baby!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I should have bumped this thread. But I forgot about it. That's the trouble with aging. Or is it the drugs?

 

[NCAAUCoach]

It’s the worst ACC I can remember.

 

[UNC-75]

They just gave Duke a 2 seed despite their recent blow out loses. Gift you might say

 

[Oak ridger]

Davidson will whoop Duke-coaching matters

 

[UNC-75]

Tennessee just got robbed by coach K.

 

[UNC-75]

Looks like Kentucky and Baylor for us??

 

[Oak ridger]

Marquette with Shoocker Smart

 

[UNC-75]

Darn. Tough draw. As expected however. The curse of 8 seed.

 

[Old_School59]

It’s embarrassingly bad. The worst I’ve ever seen and I’ve been watching ACC ball for close to 40 years.

Agreed and it’s a double nickel for me.