Good afternoon. We're all going to die (Volume II).

[Raising Heel]

Congratulations to everyone for avoiding Volume I of our impending doom (although some people contend it's only a matter of time before we are obliterated)!

Here's a terrifying article about the possible consequences of climate change. It's a little political, sure, although it focuses less on the causes and more on the potential outcomes for a planet that is becoming increasingly hostile to its inhabitants. Long-ish read but here are a few interesting passages:

Until recently, permafrost was not a major concern of climate scientists, because, as the name suggests, it was soil that stayed permanently frozen. But Arctic permafrost contains 1.8 trillion tons of carbon, more than twice as much as is currently suspended in the Earth’s atmosphere. When it thaws and is released, that carbon may evaporate as methane, which is 34 times as powerful a greenhouse-gas warming blanket as carbon dioxide when judged on the timescale of a century; when judged on the timescale of two decades, it is 86 times as powerful. In other words, we have, trapped in Arctic permafrost, twice as much carbon as is currently wrecking the atmosphere of the planet, all of it scheduled to be released at a date that keeps getting moved up, partially in the form of a gas that multiplies its warming power 86 times over.

The most notorious [of the Earth's five mass extinctions] was 252 million years ago; it began when carbon warmed the planet by five degrees, accelerated when that warming triggered the release of methane in the Arctic, and ended with 97 percent of all life on Earth dead. We are currently adding carbon to the atmosphere at a considerably faster rate; by most estimates, at least ten times faster. The rate is accelerating. This is what Stephen Hawking had in mind when he said, this spring, that the species needs to colonize other planets in the next century to survive, and what drove Elon Musk, last month, to unveil his plans to build a Mars habitat in 40 to 100 years.

Since 1980, the planet has experienced a 50-fold increase in the number of places experiencing dangerous or extreme heat; a bigger increase is to come. The five warmest summers in Europe since 1500 have all occurred since 2002, and soon, the IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] warns, simply being outdoors that time of year will be unhealthy for much of the globe.... At [a global temperature increase of] four degrees, the deadly European heat wave of 2003, which killed as many as 2,000 people a day, will be a normal summer. At six, according to an assessment focused only on effects within the U.S. from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, summer labor of any kind would become impossible in the lower Mississippi Valley, and everybody in the country east of the Rockies would be under more heat stress than anyone, anywhere, in the world today.

The article does mention farts, twice. So it's got that going for it, which is nice.

The Uninhabitable Earth

 

[tarheel0910]

I want to help the earth, but every time I start to help I say to myself...

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

 

[Raising Heel]

So naturally the article has drawn some criticism for its doomsday tone (but that's why it's so much fun!) and some inaccuracies.

 

[tarheel0910]

So naturally the article has drawn some criticism for its doomsday tone (but that's why it's so much fun!) and some inaccuracies.

I kind of feel like this guy does. Over exaggerating the issue or completely dismissing the issue of climate change doesn't help anyone. People just start to ignore you instead of trying to solve the issue.

 

[heelbent]

Oh well. I figured out a long time ago I was bound to die. Might as well take as many of you with me as I can. (faaaaaaarts)

 

[BillyL]

Oh well. I figured out a long time ago I was bound to die. Might as well take as many of you with me as I can. (faaaaaaarts)

 

[Grayhead]

Oh well. I figured out a long time ago I was bound to die. Might as well take as many of you with me as I can. (faaaaaaarts)

I do my part as well, just ask my wife

 

[Grayhead]

On a serious note, what can we really do about this alleged issue? We all drive vehicles which emit exhaust, we flagellate (even the cows), we breathe. Imo, we are locked in to life as we know it. If it's such a concern, then why are states dumping emmision requirements on vehicles? The whole concept of global warming seems farfetched. I know it's happened in our deaths history. Did the dinosaur farts or the Flintstones Suv's cause it?
I am all for protecting our planet, and I do my part. I try to control waste, and protect my streams, rivers, and oceans that I use. For instance, I purchased a 4 stroke boat motor over my old 2 stroke. Better fuel efficiency as well as better emissions. My Chevy high country burns about 11 miles to the gallon unloaded, but I need the power for work. I can't work out of a prius.

 

[Grayhead]

.

 

[tarheel0910]

My Chevy high country burns about 11 miles to the gallon unloaded, but I need the power for work. I can't work out of a prius.

Have you not seen the new turbo edition?

 

[Grayhead]

Have you not seen the new turbo edition?

Nice. Redneck option to global warming

 

[keysersosay#1]

Global warming er climate change er climate disruption... whatever these left wing crack pots are calling it now is THE biggest hoax/fraud/ con game in human history.

I am FAR more worried about that Super Volcano that continues to rumble daily at Yellowstone. That mother, when it blows, will destroy this nation, or at least a very significant part of it

 

[tarheel0910]

Global warming er climate change er climate disruption... whatever these left wing crack pots are calling it now is THE biggest hoax/fraud/ con game in human history.

Your comment is the kind of thing I was referring to earlier when I said being extreme one way or the other doesn't help anything. It just makes it worse.

I am FAR more worried about that Super Volcano that continues to rumble daily at Yellowstone. That mother, when it blows, will destroy this nation, or at least a very significant part of it

The volcano itself is not where the quakes are coming from and earthquakes happen all the time in that area. It's not unusual. No need to be worried about that.

 

[BillyL]

Global warming er climate change er climate disruption... whatever these left wing crack pots are calling it now is THE biggest hoax/fraud/ con game in human history.

I am FAR more worried about that Super Volcano that continues to rumble daily at Yellowstone. That mother, when it blows, will destroy this nation, or at least a very significant part of it

Yep . . we're gonnaa haveta keep an eye on those left wing crack pots, and let's not forget those lab coat wearing right wing crackpots that agree with them . .

 

[gunslingerdick]

On a serious note, what can we really do about this alleged issue? We all drive vehicles which emit exhaust, we flagellate (even the cows), we breathe. Imo, we are locked in to life as we know it. If it's such a concern, then why are states dumping emmision requirements on vehicles? The whole concept of global warming seems farfetched. I know it's happened in our deaths history. Did the dinosaur farts or the Flintstones Suv's cause it?
I am all for protecting our planet, and I do my part. I try to control waste, and protect my streams, rivers, and oceans that I use. For instance, I purchased a 4 stroke boat motor over my old 2 stroke. Better fuel efficiency as well as better emissions. My Chevy high country burns about 11 miles to the gallon unloaded, but I need the power for work. I can't work out of a prius.

This is such a great poast. I agree with the overall sentiment. What can we do? I'm not opposed to taking some measures to alleviate some burden that humans have put on the planet. But let's be realistic here. Global warning or climate change or whatever you want to call it is simply "the cost of living".

I'm not against exploring different energy sources. But make them as close to the current model in price and reliability. Also, stop politicizing this issue. I'm sure liberals will say conservatives are the ones doing it and vice versa but c'mon, of all things, this should be above politics.

Y'all know I'm a big fan of the Prager University Youtube Channel. Here are some 5 minute videos regarding this subject.

 

[coolwaterunc]

Duh...wait until our generation dies off and let the next one deal with it. Problem solved.

 

[tarheel0910]

Humans probably need to accept the fact that we most likely won't be around for all of eternity. It's estimated that something like 99% of all species that have existed on earth are extinct. We should strive to keep the planet clean and habitable in a reasonable manner just so it doesn't suck, but no matter what we do we won't be here forever.

 

[Raising Heel]

Humans probably need to accept the fact that we most likely won't be around for all of eternity. It's estimated that something like 99% of all species that have existed on earth are extinct. We should strive to keep the planet clean and habitable in a reasonable manner just so it doesn't suck, but no matter what we do we won't be here forever.

That seems like a reasonable request, although people will disagree about what it takes to keep it clean and habitable of course.

This part of the article got me wondering:

Several of the scientists I spoke with proposed global warming as the solution to Fermi’s famous paradox, which asks, If the universe is so big, then why haven’t we encountered any other intelligent life in it? The answer, they suggested, is that the natural life span of a civilization may be only several thousand years, and the life span of an industrial civilization perhaps only several hundred. In a universe that is many billions of years old, with star systems separated as much by time as by space, civilizations might emerge and develop and burn themselves up simply too fast to ever find one another.

Maybe it's possible that in one of these natural life spans, a civilization will figure out a way to defeat its own imminent death, at least once. And maybe, if a civilization can do it enough times consecutively, there will eventually be a meeting of two civilizations. Maybe all of this has even happened before or is happening right now in some time and space beyond our knowledge.

 

[gunslingerdick]

This part of the article got me wondering:

Maybe it's possible that in one of these natural life spans, a civilization will figure out a way to defeat its own imminent death, at least once. And maybe, if a civilization can do it enough times consecutively, there will eventually be a meeting of two civilizations. Maybe all of this has even happened before or is happening right now in some time and space beyond our knowledge.

Thinking on this level makes my head hurt. Seriously. Trying to grasp the notion of space and time is a mental exercise that while interesting at the beginning, is exhausting and scary as you get further into it.

 

[Raising Heel]

On a serious note, what can we really do about this alleged issue?

Good question. There's probably not much we as individuals can do that's going to amount to a whole hill of beans. I don't know much about it but a quick search says that agriculture and burning of fossil fuels for heat, power, and transportation are the biggest problems. That suggests we would have to abandon the technological advances of the past ~200 years and go back to subsistence living. That's just not gonna happen.

Maybe it'll be technology that saves us. Abandoning the planet seems absurd and impractical. Maybe somebody will invent a way to remove harmful emissions from the atmosphere.

The whole concept of global warming seems farfetched.

Why?

 

[tarheel0910]

That seems like a reasonable request, although people will disagree about what it takes to keep it clean and habitable of course.

I think at a bare minimum it should look better than @coolwaterunc's living room.

This part of the article got me wondering:
Maybe it's possible that in one of these natural life spans, a civilization will figure out a way to defeat its own imminent death, at least once. And maybe, if a civilization can do it enough times consecutively, there will eventually be a meeting of two civilizations. Maybe all of this has even happened before or is happening right now in some time and space beyond our knowledge.

Hmm... getting deep on that one. I like it.

 

[Raising Heel]

I think at a bare minimum it should look better than @coolwaterunc's living room.

This is exactly how I envision cool's living room, minus the bike and the basketball (outdoor activities).

 

[Grayhead]

Good question. There's probably not much we as individuals can do that's going to amount to a whole hill of beans. I don't know much about it but a quick search says that agriculture and burning of fossil fuels for heat, power, and transportation are the biggest problems. That suggests we would have to abandon the technological advances of the past ~200 years and go back to subsistence living. That's just not gonna happen.

Maybe it'll be technology that saves us. Abandoning the planet seems absurd and impractical. Maybe somebody will invent a way to remove harmful emissions from the atmosphere.

Why?

Let me rephrase that, "The whole concept of global warming being manmade is farfetched."
Given the fact that it has happened in the past, why should man be to blame for bringing this On?

The landing which I launch my boat is the same one that my family has used for decades. I have asked the old timers if the water level has risen at all in their lifetime. They all say no. They have shellfished the same grounds for generations and no difference. All this talk of polar ice caps melting and oceans rising is a bunch of crap. Since the earth by far is covered in water, how much extra water would it take to raise it one inch? I highly doubt there is enough water at the caps to do this. I simply believe it's scare tactics on both parties special interest groups driving this. Yes, we can do more to protect this planet, but we are a long way from being independant from utilizing our planets resources. Big gov wants to tax you for key items that causes this so called global warming issue. Example: few years back, the government wanted to tax corporations for the carbon dioxide people exhaled at their places of work. A quick Google search will provide enough proof to the stupidity. Riding bicycles is harming our planet. You can't make this crap up.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Good question. There's probably not much we as individuals can do that's going to amount to a whole hill of beans. I don't know much about it but a quick search says that agriculture and burning of fossil fuels for heat, power, and transportation are the biggest problems. That suggests we would have to abandon the technological advances of the past ~200 years and go back to subsistence living. That's just not gonna happen.

Agree with all of that.

I think education is the key. But I don't necessarily mean climate/fossil fuel/geology/meteorology education. I'm thinking education on how to not be a jerkoff. Take this board for example; I'd bet that 90% of this board would have the same feelings as @Grayhead and I do. - be conscious of your lifestyle, protect what you can protect but otherwise live your life. But because the issue has been politicized so much, people are making bad decisions because it's the stance they think they should make.

Ex:

liberal - "the Earth will explode by this time next year!! We need to make a law requiring everyone to ride bikes, close all plants that emit any emissions and give the United Nations $10 bazillion to figure this out!"

conservative - "Climate change, schlimate change. These alarmists are pissing me off. I'm taking the catalytic converters off of all my trucks and SUVs just to show them that I'm not falling for it."

 

[tarheel0910]

Given the fact that it has happened in the past, why should man be to blame for bringing this On?

This proves my point about the extremes not helping the situation out. The rational people are not saying that man is bringing this on. They are saying that they are contributing to the warming and it is within our power to control how much we are contributing.

The landing which I launch my boat is the same one that my family has used for decades. I have asked the old timers if the water level has risen at all in their lifetime.

This is something that happens over a long period of time, so I'm not sure asking the old timers is a good research method. Also, we are talking about rising sea levels. Not sure where you launch your boat, but unless it's the ocean it's not an apples to apples comparison.

All this talk of polar ice caps melting and oceans rising is a bunch of crap. Since the earth by far is covered in water, how much extra water would it take to raise it one inch? I highly doubt there is enough water at the caps to do this.

You would be surprised. The antartic ice sheet alone has 6,400,000 cubic miles of ice.

 

[Grayhead]

This proves my point about the extremes not helping the situation out. The rational people are not saying that man is bringing this on. They are saying that they are contributing to the warming and it is within our power to control how much we are contributing.


This is something that happens over a long period of time, so I'm not sure asking the old timers is a good research method. Also, we are talking about rising sea levels. Not sure where you launch your boat, but unless it's the ocean it's not an apples to apples comparison.


You would be surprised. The antartic ice sheet alone has 6,400,000 cubic miles of ice.

I launch my boat in a coastal are just off the ICW.
My aquarium is 3'x5'. It takes several gallons of water to raise the level 1 inch.
6.4 million cubic miles is a lot. But how many cubic million miles does all oceans combined measure. Also, ice expands when frozen, so that does not translate into that amount of water. Also, how much water is already displaced by these ice sheets?

I'm not shooting holes in your argument, just setting a tone for what we are being fed. And if it's happening as rapidly as they state, then the old timers would know.
How much land in Florida would be under water if the ocean rose 1 inch?

 

[gunslingerdick]

They are saying that they are contributing to the warming and it is within our power to control how much we are contributing.

Who is saying it? Is it consensus? Is it consensus that it is within our power to control how much? Is it in our control without taking drastic measures? This is the issue for me. It's gotten to the point where we don't know who to trust on this issue because everyone has their own "experts".

This is something that happens over a long period of time, so I'm not sure asking the old timers is a good research method. Also, we are talking about rising sea levels. Not sure where you launch your boat, but unless it's the ocean it's not an apples to apples comparison.
.

While I agree that's probably not the best research method, all bodies of water should rise with ocean levels rising, no?

 

[coolwaterunc]

I think at a bare minimum it should look better than @coolwaterunc's living room.

GFY

This is exactly how I envision cool's living room, minus the bike and the basketball (outdoor activities).

GFY (although the outdoor activities comment was accurate)


In all seriousness, I'm actually a neat freak when it comes to my house. As long as I looked forward to buying it, I treat this thing like my baby. In fact, I'm about to start a renovation for the master bathroom and saving up for the other bathroom. This place is spotless, and I make damn sure it stays that way. I guess it's mainly because I have nothing else to do outside of work, so it's my way of keeping myself occupied.

 

[heelbent]

You would be surprised. The antartic ice sheet alone has 6,400,000 cubic miles of ice.

There's a mountain range comparable to the Alps hidden under eastern Antarctica.

"Buried under about three miles (five kilometers) of ice, the Gamburtsev Mountains weren't even found until the mid-1900s, when Russian explorers recorded unusual gravity fluctuations emanating from beneath the ice. (See a high-resolution Antarctic map.)

Subsequent studies have revealed a giant range, on par with the European Alps, with the highest peaks rising nearly 15,000 feet (4,500 meters).

"These are the least understood mountain ranges on Earth," Ferraccioli said. "It is as exciting as exploring another planet.""

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...tarctica-mountains-mystery-ice-science-earth/

 

[coolwaterunc]

There's a mountain range comparable to the Alps hidden under eastern Antarctica.

Must be where the secret base for the Reptilians is located.

 

[tarheel0910]

I launch my boat in a coastal are just off the ICW.
My aquarium is 3'x5'. It takes several gallons of water to raise the level 1 inch.
6.4 million cubic miles is a lot. But how many cubic million miles does all oceans combined measure. Also, ice expands when frozen, so that does not translate into that amount of water. Also, how much water is already displaced by these ice sheets?

I'm not shooting holes in your argument, just setting a tone for what we are being fed. And if it's happening as rapidly as they state, then the old timers would know.
How much land in Florida would be under water if the ocean rose 1 inch?

On my phone right now, but remind me tomorrow and I'll do the research to your questions.

 

[Grayhead]

On my phone right now, but remind me tomorrow and I'll do the research to your questions.

That would be great. You going to factor heelbents mountain chain as well?

 

[tarheel0910]

Who is saying it? Is it consensus? Is it consensus that it is within our power to control how much? Is it in our control without taking drastic measures?

I guess it depends on what your definition of consensus and drastic is, but IMO the answers to your questions is yes.

While I agree that's probably not the best research method, all bodies of water should rise with ocean levels rising, no?

If all bodies of water are at the same elevation the answer is yes. Elevation changes and gravity makes a difference in the rate and timing of the rise.

 

[tarheel0910]

That would be great. You going to factor heelbents mountain chain as well?

I'm not sure exactly what difference that would make, but I'll see what I can find

 

[Grayhead]

Don't forget existing displacement as well as mass reduction due to melting ice.

 

[tarheel0910]

Don't forget existing displacement as well as mass reduction due to melting ice.

Alright, after some quick research here is an article that I think explains the displacement question. You can basically sum up why there is a rise in the level despite there already being displacement in one word. Density. Warning ahead of time, it gets super scientific so you might fall asleep while reading it. In full disclosure the whole purpose of the website is to rebut non believers and their theories. Some might contented that makes them bias, but in my opinion they do a good job of laying out actual scientific evidence (at least in this article) which at the very least limits any bias. I also want to point out that we are talking about ice that is already in the ocean. There is also a lot of ice on the planet that isn't in the ocean, so there is no displacement issue concerning that.

Given all of that, the whole issue of rising sea levels doesn't really concern me that much. The loss of land doesn't bother me. The main concern for me is the rise in temperature which can have serious consequences on living organisms if the temperature increases enough.

 

[coolwaterunc]

 

[tarheel0910]

Here is a good article from the same source that I mentioned above concerning consensus @gunslingerdick. Again, in full disclosure, the whole purpose of the website is to rebut non believers and their theories which some might say leads to a bias.

 

[keysersosay#1]

Read a book called "Unstoppable global warming" by Singer of UVA and another guy BORING as hell but nonetheless a guide to rebut this nonsense about man made "global warming" now called Climate change because they discovered that poof there really had been NO warming over the last 15 years

I am old enough to remember the mid 70s and the Newsweek cover of HORROR Rthe coming ICE AGE done by those "experts" that were predicting a mass extinction of the planet because it was getting too cold

Now it has been turned around by self appointed expert gas bags like Gore and others to peddle their hysteria and TAX you up the wazzoo so that THEY control as much of your behavior as possible.
The Paris accord was a MASSIVE tax incease on YOU and a wealth transfer of Billions to REAL polluters like China and India and we got NOTHING in return

Typical Obama deal ..Screw America for all of our past "sins". No wonder all these phonies across the globe are pissed.... they LOST all that free cash that was supposed to come to them from YOU and the rest of America.

Be thankful that Trump canceled this piece of garbage that would have transferred hundreds of billions to other nations, while we get ZERO in return