How would Roy have done at building a program?

[AtlasShrugged]

I know that there is a vocal subset of the Tar Heel fan base that wants Roy Williams to be fired, which is absolutely amazing to me. That said, Roy was handed the keys to two of the five programs in college basketball in Kansas and North Carolina without really having to build them. I was wondering how you guys think Williams would have done had he taken over an underachieving or non-pedigree program over the course of his career? For example, say he took over at a mid-major or at a place like Georgia or Texas A&M. I ask this in a hypothetical scenario assuming he is earlier in his career.

This post was edited on 4/8 3:17 PM by AtlasShrugged

 

[T-Square]

I think you are wrong. KU was on probation and while not bereft of talent, wasn't on par with the rest of his conference. Rapidly built them into national contenders. UNC was coming off an 8-20 season and an NIT berth the next. He not only had to recruit the missing keys to a championship team, but coach the holdovers up enough to win a title. Roy would have built a winner anywhere he went.

 

[thaUNCshow]

Our program was a year removed from literally the worst season in school history when Roy got here. Then he won a title in his 2nd year. Id say he built the program over again

 

[AtlasShrugged]

Originally posted by thaUNCshow:
Our program was a year removed from literally the worst season in school history when Roy got here. Then he won a title in his 2nd year. Id say he built the program over again

The program was devoid of leadership not in need of rebuilding. Outside of Quentin Thomas and Marvin Williams, all of the players were already in place when Roy arrived.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Atlas, please just DROP IT!

We had anything BUT a "TEAM" when Roy got here. The program and the guys that were here were all in shambles! Just drop it.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I think it's a legit question. And I'm not sure of the answer. Like others have mentioned, he RE-built programs. But I think some of us are being silly if we don't recognize that KU and UNC had a built in leg up on the competition due to our esteemed history and tradition. So while he's never had to build a program, he has rebuilt two. And I think that shows that if he accepted the challenge of building one from the ground up, there's reason to believe he'd be successful. Because most of all, he's a recruiter. And just the other day we had a thread here and basically everyone was in agreement that kids today don't commit to schools - they commit to coaches. Roy would land the talent he needed to build a program. His style of play is attractive at first glance and players like it.

 

[dgheel57]

Originally posted by AtlasShrugged:

I know that there is a vocal subset of the Tar Heel fan base that wants Roy Williams to be fired, which is absolutely amazing to me. That said, Roy was handed the keys to two of the five programs in college basketball in Kansas and North Carolina without really having to build them. I was wondering how you guys think Williams would have done had he taken over an underachieving or non-pedigree program over the course of his career? For example, say he took over at a mid-major or at a place like Georgia or Texas A&M. I ask this in a hypothetical scenario assuming he is earlier in his career.

This post was edited on 4/8 3:17 PM by AtlasShrugged

He was tutored by the best,he would've succeeded no matter where he went.

 

[ChiShankCity]

So if the question is how would Roy do at building a major program without much history that has struggled lately... That's probably impossible to answer. Let's say he was taking over at Mississippi State or Northwestern. Who knows?

What he did here initially shouldn't be taken lightly though.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Originally posted by SJung851:
So if the question is how would Roy do at building a major program without much history that has struggled lately... That's probably impossible to answer. Let's say he was taking over at Mississippi State or Northwestern. Who knows?

What he did here initially shouldn't be taken lightly though.

EXACTLY!

 

[ChapelHeeled]

This whole thread is just off to me. To begin with, Roy Williams is still one of the very TOP coaches in all of college basketball. He has led UNC through many, many tough times since he came back home. Finally tonight, I do not know ANYONE who loves UNC and/or UNC Basketball that wants Roy Williams fired. You missed it all to me, ALL of the way from the very start of this thread...

 

[SubZer0]

Roy built your program and had won two titles.

 

[berens007]

It'd be hard for any coach to build a program at Miss St or Northwestern b/c they probably don't have resources dedicated to Bball. Even Coach K had that going for him going into Duke - resources, history, and athletic dept support. I bet Roy could have made a Miss St or a Northwestern a heck of a lot better, and could have done something similar to Billy Donovan if he walked into Florida when Billy did, etc.

 

[RP12]

Originally posted by berens007:

It'd be hard for any coach to build a program at Miss St or Northwestern b/c they probably don't have resources dedicated to Bball. Even Coach K had that going for him going into Duke - resources, history, and athletic dept support. I bet Roy could have made a Miss St or a Northwestern a heck of a lot better, and could have done something similar to Billy Donovan if he walked into Florida when Billy did, etc.

This for me. What was the last program that had no history and was built into a perennially relevant program? UConn maybe? The reality is that moderate success at such a school almost always leads to a bigger job. Also, success at a major program is not guaranteed, with schools like UCLA, Indiana, UK for a while, all being thoroughly mediocre.

 

[ROYANDDEAN]

Originally posted by RP12:

Originally posted by berens007:

It'd be hard for any coach to build a program at Miss St or Northwestern b/c they probably don't have resources dedicated to Bball. Even Coach K had that going for him going into Duke - resources, history, and athletic dept support. I bet Roy could have made a Miss St or a Northwestern a heck of a lot better, and could have done something similar to Billy Donovan if he walked into Florida when Billy did, etc.

This for me. What was the last program that had no history and was built into a perennially relevant program? UConn maybe? The reality is that moderate success at such a school almost always leads to a bigger job. Also, success at a major program is not guaranteed, with schools like UCLA, Indiana, UK for a while, all being thoroughly mediocre.

I can think of a couple

VCU
Gonzaga

 

[redyns54]

Good question. And one that we will never know. But it would be interesting to see how Roy would have done if say his first opportunity had been Clemson as opposed to Kansas. I do get frustrated with Roy some times, as we all do. Recruiting, and giving serious playing time to the likes of Nate Britt and Joel James, comes to mind. But glad Roy is in Chapel Hill. He is the link to Dean and the perfect man for the job.

 

[TarHeelMark]

James Naismith.... Phog Allen.... Dean Smith.... Roy Williams

Obviously, the man comes from good stock and would succeed anywhere. Glad we have him and hope he sticks around another 12 years.

 

[AtlasShrugged]

Originally posted by ROYANDDEAN:

Originally posted by RP12:

Originally posted by berens007:

It'd be hard for any coach to build a program at Miss St or Northwestern b/c they probably don't have resources dedicated to Bball. Even Coach K had that going for him going into Duke - resources, history, and athletic dept support. I bet Roy could have made a Miss St or a Northwestern a heck of a lot better, and could have done something similar to Billy Donovan if he walked into Florida when Billy did, etc.

This for me. What was the last program that had no history and was built into a perennially relevant program? UConn maybe? The reality is that moderate success at such a school almost always leads to a bigger job. Also, success at a major program is not guaranteed, with schools like UCLA, Indiana, UK for a while, all being thoroughly mediocre.

I can think of a couple

VCU
Gonzaga

Donovan - Florida
Izzo - Michigan State

 

[DSouthr]

Originally posted by AtlasShrugged:

Originally posted by thaUNCshow:
Our program was a year removed from literally the worst season in school history when Roy got here. Then he won a title in his 2nd year. Id say he built the program over again

The program was devoid of leadership not in need of rebuilding. Outside of Quentin Thomas and Marvin Williams, all of the players were already in place when Roy arrived.

Atlas, what I don't think you realize is that there was much more than just the 2 guys you mention (QT & Marvin) that Roy had to recruit. His finest recruiting job, maybe the finest in his career was recruiting May, Rashad, Felton, Jackie Manuel, and Jawad to play for UNC that first season back at the school. Every one of those guys were gone, that isn't a guess, it isn't speculation, they were all gone had it not been for Roy. Roy actually did have to totally rebuild so specualtion of could he do such a thing is a waste of effort. Look after his first natty, yet again, Roy pretty much had to rebuild again, look after his second Natty, yet again a total rebuild had to happen.

How would Roy have done if he coached at a mid major, I don;t know, no one else can either because those were not the cards he was delt, but had he began his career at a mid major type of program he would not have been there long before he got to a big time program, cream always rises.

 

[94tarheel]

Originally posted by AtlasShrugged:

Originally posted by ROYANDDEAN:

Originally posted by RP12:

Originally posted by berens007:

It'd be hard for any coach to build a program at Miss St or Northwestern b/c they probably don't have resources dedicated to Bball. Even Coach K had that going for him going into Duke - resources, history, and athletic dept support. I bet Roy could have made a Miss St or a Northwestern a heck of a lot better, and could have done something similar to Billy Donovan if he walked into Florida when Billy did, etc.

This for me. What was the last program that had no history and was built into a perennially relevant program? UConn maybe? The reality is that moderate success at such a school almost always leads to a bigger job. Also, success at a major program is not guaranteed, with schools like UCLA, Indiana, UK for a while, all being thoroughly mediocre.

I can think of a couple

VCU
Gonzaga

Donovan - Florida
Izzo - Michigan State

Sorry, but Florida had success prior to Donovan's arrival. Lon Kruger coach Vernon Maxwell, etc to the Final Four if I am not mistaken. And, you forget that Izzo is a protege of Jud Heathcote and they won te title in 79 with Magic Johnson.

I would say Georgetown under John Thompson, UConn and Gonzaga are truly the only programs that have been built to championship winning programs (i the case of Gtown and UConn) and consistent tourney participant in the case of Gonzaga. Arizona may also fit in as well.