Immigration

[gunslingerdick]

In light of the recent decision made by a Texas judge, I thought we needed a thread. Not so much on the ruling, but on immigration. We can't close the borders even though at this time that might honestly make the most sense. So what can be done? How can we fix our problems of illegals constantly entering the country? How should we address immigration.

And now, an appearance from Teddy.

 

[keysersosay#1]

There are some things about TR that I do not like but many that I do. His stance on immigration is one that I LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Raising Heel]

Disagree with Teddy. I think his opinion was terribly naive for his time, and even more so 100 years later. It's entirely possible to be an honorable American citizen without being "nothing but an American" IMO.

For me, the immigration issue begins and ends with one question: are they here legally?

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:
Disagree with Teddy. I think his opinion was terribly naive for his time, and even more so 100 years later. It's entirely possible to be an honorable American citizen without being "nothing but an American" IMO.

What used to make the US the greatest country in the world was that we were all from other places but we were invested in America. If you came here from somewhere else, you were leaving the past behind and you were ready to buy in whole hog at becoming an American. Can you imagine an immigrant from 100 years ago asking to have something translated to them? Hell no. Immigrants used to prepare to become Americans. They worked hard in becoming an American. They studied American history so they'd be more knowledgeable if any current Americans wanted to challenge them. They learned English so they'd fit in and feel "more American". And then once here, they were appreciative of having joined the number 1 team. They wouldn't dare spit in the faces of those they sought to be like.

Teddy is 100% correct in my book. By requiring someone to go the full monty in becoming an American, we are doing our best to ensure there is some investment on their part. Or we could just let any Jaun, Dick or Harry cross the border, give them everything they need, make all the needed accommodations and send them on their way to earn money so they can send it back to from wherever they came. Hell, why stop there? Let's arrange to pick them up in caravans and drive them to new houses that we'll have built for them before they arrive? Throw in a free Golden Retriever...or more appropriately, maybe a Chihuahua.

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

For me, the immigration issue begins and ends with one question: are they here legally?

Well this point gets all the headlines and discussion. But I'm actually more inclined to discuss your first point as evidenced by my two paragraph answer above.

But I'm in agreement. Not to sound smartassy, but isn't that the beginning and end of any discussion on immigration centered around whether or not they're here legally or illegally? Point blank, if you're here illegally, you should be gone. No ifs, ands or buts. If you're here legally, here's to hoping that you've come here with the idea that you want to give something to America - not just reap it's rewards. And like I said, demanding they assimilate into our culture shows they are willing to do so.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

For all their wisdom and foresight (I'm being serious, they were extremely insightful of the future) the Framers made a big mistake when drafting the Constitution......

They didn't explicitly declare English the official language of America. I so wish they had done that. They probably figured it was implied.

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
What used to make the US the greatest country in the world was that we were all from other places but we were invested in America.

Sheesh, I read the rest of that post with "America the Beautiful" playing in the background. However, you completely ignored the reality that many major cities in the U.S. developed ethnic enclaves like Chinatowns or Little Italys or dozens of others. There were also phenomena like the Amish in rural areas. What those immigrants all had in common is that their members resisted assimilation into American culture and were fiercely self-sufficient.

That last part is what's different today. They still resist assimilation, but now they want to be accommodated instead of self-reliant. That's a sweeping generalization, but based on the rest of your post I think we agree.

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
Not to sound smartassy, but isn't that the beginning and end of any discussion on immigration centered around whether or not they're here legally or illegally?

It's not smartassy at all. The problem is that the executive branch is trying to grant wholesale amnesty instead of enforcing the existing laws. They know they can't get the existing laws changed, so they're attempting an end-around on the legislature. I think that's garbage.

 

[GACMAN]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
What used to make the US the greatest country in the world was that we were all from other places but we were invested in America.

Sheesh, I read the rest of that post with "America the Beautiful" playing in the background. However, you completely ignored the reality that many major cities in the U.S. developed ethnic enclaves like Chinatowns or Little Italys or dozens of others. There were also phenomena like the Amish in rural areas. What those immigrants all had in common is that their members resisted assimilation into American culture and were fiercely self-sufficient.

That last part is what's different today. They still resist assimilation, but now they want to be accommodated instead of self-reliant. That's a sweeping generalization, but based on the rest of your post I think we agree.

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
Not to sound smartassy, but isn't that the beginning and end of any discussion on immigration centered around whether or not they're here legally or illegally?

It's not smartassy at all. The problem is that the executive branch is trying to grant wholesale amnesty instead of enforcing the existing laws. They know they can't get the existing laws changed, so they're attempting an end-around on the legislature. I think that's garbage.

Even though you 2 disagree with each other, I agree with both of you!

 

[DeanFor President]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:
Disagree with Teddy. I think his opinion was terribly naive for his time, and even more so 100 years later. It's entirely possible to be an honorable American citizen without being "nothing but an American" IMO.

For me, the immigration issue begins and ends with one question: are they here legally?

I have to disagree with your first part.

Damn right to the second part.

 

[DeanFor President]

I think many, many Americans are tired of being made to feel mean or unreasonable simply for wanting the laws to be enforced.

 

[strummingram]

Originally posted by DeanFor President:

I think many, many Americans are tired of being made to feel mean or unreasonable simply for wanting the laws to be enforced.

+1

 

[keysersosay#1]

strum there is hope for you yet.

 

[heelmanwilm]

I'm so sick of the politics surrounding it. Whatever the crap they decide just ENFORCE IT!!!
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Raising Heel]

Immigration might be this board's kum-bay-a topic.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:
Immigration might be this board's kum-bay-a topic.

It seriously might be.

And I agree with you heelman, it pisses me off that both parties let politics get in the way on this issue instead of DOING something. The law is on the books -- it's a federal crime to enter this country illegally. Enforce the effing law and take steps to ensure the law is more easily enforceable.

Both sides are living in fantasy land and aren't being practical. The hardcore right wants to round up every last illegal immigrant Gestapo-style and forceably deport them. The hardcore left wants to fully legalize every illegal immigrant and give them full-standing. You can't do either of those!!! Both would cause chaos.

Most level-headed people agree that you need to seal up the sieve and then develop a sound plan, such as merit-based path to citizenship, for those already here.

 

[DeanFor President]

Yep. To me, first and foremost, it's got to be about the border. The people already here are a tertiary issue.
Then it has to be about deciding who gets to stay here, and the rules for who else gets to come.
Anchor baby birthright citizenship needs to be abolished or modified, as it's a misapplication of the law