Is it possible we're better next year if someone leaves?

[RP12]

I'm not saying I fully believe this, but my biggest concern at this point about next year (understanding how much things could change) is getting Berry 25+ minutes to get our offense moving and spaced correctly. Without that I think we could see surprisingly similar results to this year. Any of the three juniors who could jump would obviously take strengths with them that no one else on the team embodies. But, can you envision a scenario where our potential is higher as a team without one of them?

I don't intend for this to turn into player bashing, so if possible focus on the potential benefit for the players who could have bigger roles/development as a result of a departure.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

 

[kc2525]

I certainly wish we had JMM this season.

 

[Scoops Heels]

Who do you think is leaveing? Or who do you want to leave? just asking......
This post was edited on 4/2 12:44 PM by Scoops Heels

 

[HeelFan58]

simple answer = NO

 

[RP12]

I don't want any of them to leave. The next month is gonna be a ton of hypotheticals around who comes and maybe who goes, and I could envision our team being more dangerous by next March depending on opportunity and development of the freshmen. I think Brice is most likely to go, and while I would hate to lose our only consistent scoring big if he announced he was leaving I'd be excited somewhat about the possibility of going small more often, what JP could do playing inside more, etc. Just an exercise in what ifs, which is all we can really do at this point.

 

[Scoops Heels]

Nobody is leaveing!!

 

[BillyL]

 

[Tru Blu Tar Heel]

And the fallout begins in 3.....2.....1.....

 

[gunslingerdick]

The OP is a legit thought. Sometimes when you shorten a rotation, players understand and can become more comfortable with their roles. Not a ridiculous notion by any means.

With that said, I (1) don't think any of our guys are ready to leave and (2) I don't necessarily think the way this current team is built, that we would indeed be better if we lost someone. Marcus, Brice and Justin are the only guys that could even consider the idea and it's a stretch with them.

Marcus - uhh, please god no. As we've discussed, he's more than just our best player. He's our leader, the face of our program, a calming presence, a big shot maker and one hell of a kid.

Brice - our best inside offensive player and I suspect he'll be a real beast next year now that he understands he's the man.

JJ - our most NBA ready guy with all sorts of ways to score. His jumper came around towards the end of the season and if it progresses over the summer at the rate it did during the final month of the season, watch out.

I won't use the word "cripple", but any of those 3 leaving would make us a substantially less threatening team. As for everyone else, we need them all because what one lacks, another possesses. We just don't have any other "complete" basketball players. Sometimes teams have guys that do the same thing. And if one were to leave, they might be alright just riding the other one. But that's not the case for us. The only two similar players we have are Pinson and JP. Both quality ball-handlers, beasts on the break, good defenders with broken jumpshots. But Pinson hasn't gotten enough experience to where we wouldn't need JP.

 

[BillyL]

I think if the OP had asked which player(s) would benefit most by a player leaving, then that may have generated some discussion.

There is absolutely no one on this team that by his absence next year would make this team better. Roy is going to play as many as he can possibly play all the way up until conference games begin. By the time the first week of January rolls thru I think most if not all of the players will already know their role(s) . .

 

[bleeduncblue]

I do hope that Roy settles into an 8 man rotation by March next year. I think his use of 9 and 10 players was a killer in the post season. Our last 2 players (Pinson and Britt) were simply awful in the Wisconsin game ... and yes, I know that Britt was huge in the first half of the Arkansas game ... but those two really hurt us in the round of 16.

As I said when Pinson was put back on the roster from his injury, I had hoped that Roy would keep him OUT of the lineup because he had proven that he was not ready for the big moment and had missed several critical weeks ... I took a beating for saying that but it proved to be an accurate assessment. He'll be a solid player on both ends at UNC, no doubt .. but he should not have seen the court in March.

This post was edited on 4/2 3:01 PM by bleeduncblue

 

[DSouthr]

WE can not in any way be a better team if we lost any of this years junior class or freshman class.

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by DSouthr:

WE can not in any way be a better team if we lost any of this years junior class or freshman class.

Or the sophomore class either for that matter.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Definitely not a ridiculous notion. However, for this team I believe the answer is no.

Another post mentioned wishing we had JMM this year. I'm not sure how much (if any) better we would have been this year with JMM on the team. Maybe we wouldnt have seen as much Joel James and Jackson Simmons this year if he were on the team, but that's the only real upside I see there. However, I think its pretty obvious that the team next year will be better as a result of JMM not being on the team this year. Hicks/Brice/Kennedy all would have had some of their minutes go to JMM. JMM also would have been the "go-to" guy in the paint. I think those 3 bigs benefited a lot from the added minutes, as well as the increased roles as a result of not having JMM on the team.

With the crowd that could realistically leave this year (Brice, Marcus, Justin, JP), I don't think we're better off without any of them. Now, if we're doing a Utopia situation where I could pick people to declare for the draft, sure, I'd say we're probably a better team next year without Britt. If he's not on the team it takes the ability to leave him out on the floor for way too long while we watch his play be a contributing factor in our elimination, out of Roy's hands. It also would give Berry a chance to spread his wings a little bit more.

If I had to pick one of the four I mentioned to leave, I'd probably go with Brice. GSD pointed out that Pinson has some of the same traits as JP, but I too feel like he's not there yet, and we'd lose our best defender and best athlete if JP left. Marcus leaving would be devastating - as we'd lose our leader, best shooter/scorer, and arguably best floor general (with Berry). Justin leaving wouldn't be crippling as I think we'd patch stuff together, but it wouldn't be fun to lose that scoring ability, and the size on the wing. If Brice left - we'd probably see more Joel James which wouldnt be thrilling, but I feel like Hicks could take over well for Brice next season if needed, similar to how Brice took over for JMM this year.

 

[Bur-Heel]

JP is in the way!!..whether it be a recruit like Ingram or brown ..or current players like Pinson and berry..recruits are not coming in to sit behind a senior..and everyone knows our best lineup is with berry,Paige,jj,bj,Meeks..JP hurts us on offense and is overrated on d!!..Brice is also in the way of hicks..hicks with his talent should not have to wait until he's a senior to be the man!!..the op asks a legitimate question!!..definitely don't want anyone to leave,but these are answers to the original questions!!

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

JP is in the way!!..whether it be a recruit like Ingram or brown ..or current players like Pinson and berry..recruits are not coming in to sit behind a senior..and everyone knows our best lineup is with berry,Paige,jj,bj,Meeks..JP hurts us on offense and is overrated on d!!..Brice is also in the way of hicks..hicks with his talent should not have to wait until he's a senior to be the man!!..the op asks a legitimate question!!..definitely don't want anyone to leave,but these are answers to the original questions!!

WOW

 

[dadika13]

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

JP is in the way!!..whether it be a recruit like Ingram or brown ..or current players like Pinson and berry..recruits are not coming in to sit behind a senior..and everyone knows our best lineup is with berry,Paige,jj,bj,Meeks..JP hurts us on offense and is overrated on d!!..Brice is also in the way of hicks..hicks with his talent should not have to wait until he's a senior to be the man!!..the op asks a legitimate question!!..definitely don't want anyone to leave,but these are answers to the original questions!!

So...you don't see the value in having a perimeter defender to stop the insanely good guards that we'll play all year? Riiiiighhht....

 

[Bur-Heel]

I sure do!!..but jp's defense is so overrated..Pinson could do just as good as that same defender that you think JP is

 

[DSouthr]

Originally posted by BillyL:

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

JP is in the way!!..whether it be a recruit like Ingram or brown ..or current players like Pinson and berry..recruits are not coming in to sit behind a senior..and everyone knows our best lineup is with berry,Paige,jj,bj,Meeks..JP hurts us on offense and is overrated on d!!..Brice is also in the way of hicks..hicks with his talent should not have to wait until he's a senior to be the man!!..the op asks a legitimate question!!..definitely don't want anyone to leave,but these are answers to the original questions!!

WOW

Absolute fact, I would take JP over either Ingram or Brown and not lose a wink of sleep over the decision !!!

 

[WoadBlue]

The actual question should be: would we have good odds of being better next year if Roy were to have an 8 man rotation set by late January?

To that question, my answer is: yes.

But that poses issues. Which 2 of the 10 get demoted?

James is the only other true 5 after Meeks, but all things considered, including potential upside, I say he should be left out of the 8. Because Johnson is si skinny, and rather easily manhandled down low by burly 4s, and Hicks is never going to be more than barely adequate filling in at the 5, we either must have James among the 8 or make it 9.

That is away to get at the problem: we have a host of talented players who all lack 1 or 2 things they really need. Because of what they collectively lack, we probably cannot go to an 8 man rotation.

Now, if Hicks could hit an occasional 3 and routinely nail 15 footers, then with him in the game replacing Meeks we could create matchup issues for foes. But lacking a Big who can shoot outside 9-10 feet is one of our major weakesses.

 

[RoseHeel]

Originally posted by DSouthr:

Originally posted by BillyL:

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

JP is in the way!!..whether it be a recruit like Ingram or brown ..or current players like Pinson and berry..recruits are not coming in to sit behind a senior..and everyone knows our best lineup is with berry,Paige,jj,bj,Meeks..JP hurts us on offense and is overrated on d!!..Brice is also in the way of hicks..hicks with his talent should not have to wait until he's a senior to be the man!!..the op asks a legitimate question!!..definitely don't want anyone to leave,but these are answers to the original questions!!

WOW

Absolute fact, I would take JP over either Ingram or Brown and not lose a wink of sleep over the decision !!!

WOW

 

[Bur-Heel]

JP OVER INGRAM OR BROWN IS A DEFINITE WOW!!

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

JP OVER INGRAM OR BROWN IS A DEFINITE WOW!!

Go ahead, kick JP Tokoto to the curb, run the bus over him, back it up over him and move on . . . then the following week Jaylen Brown commits to UCLA or Kentucky and Ingram opts for dOOk . .

Heaven forbid that Theo breaks his foot again next season and then you're left sitting in your recliner with nobody to guard anyone on the wing . .

#weeatourownhereatUNC

 

[Bur-Heel]

I'm cool with that Billy..caught the same heat about jmm last year!!..i definitely doubt we get brown or Ingram..just saying I would rather have these caliber players ..same way I felt about the Wiggins over Strickland discussion last season!!

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

I'm cool with that Billy..caught the same heat about jmm last year!!..i definitely doubt we get brown or Ingram..just saying I would rather have these caliber players ..same way I felt about the Wiggins over Strickland discussion last season!!

Ingram will be a Tar Heel . .

Be patient.

 

[Bur-Heel]

Billy you shouldn't play with my emotions like that!!

 

[GoNtheDistance]

We are better next year if Roy leaves a few folks that got decent minutes this year on the bench.

 

[Heel Gyeah]

Originally posted by mikeirbyusa:

 

[RoseHeel]

Originally posted by BillyL:

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

JP OVER INGRAM OR BROWN IS A DEFINITE WOW!!

Go ahead, kick JP Tokoto to the curb, run the bus over him, back it up over him and move on . . . then the following week Jaylen Brown commits to UCLA or Kentucky and Ingram opts for dOOk . .

Heaven forbid that Theo breaks his foot again next season and then you're left sitting in your recliner with nobody to guard anyone on the wing . .

#weeatourownhereatUNC

Billy,

No one is suggesting we throw JP under the bus. But i swear, some here seem to think with too much UNC Blue in their thoughts than others. I root for all players that choose to play in Carolina blue. But I'm not going to pretend our team doesnt need improvement or new recruits. Something that many here have succeaafully done for themselves. Anyone that can say with a straight face they'd take JP over, not only the #1 wing, but the #1 player in the nation is someone i don't think has watched any of our games this season. That's absolutely absurd to me.

 

[imajericho]

This topic is accurate actually.

If Joel James, we are a better team. Hands down.

 

[scoutsupreme]

We don't have a can't miss NBA prospect on the roster....until we have one or two don't expect any championships. There us a reason no one is leaving.

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by imajericho:

This topic is accurate actually.

If Joel James, we are a better team. Hands down.

That would leave us with only Meeks, Johnson and Hicks that have any height to cover the 2 post positions . . and a 6'7.5" Luke Maye to give them any help. We'd be one injury away from being forced to play zone all year long.

May I remind you that Kennedy, Brice and Isaiah are all very prone to getting themselves into quick foul trouble . . not that Joel James isn't as well, but, he's another post player with 5 fouls available.

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

JP is in the way!!..whether it be a recruit like Ingram or brown ..or current players like Pinson and berry..recruits are not coming in to sit behind a senior..and everyone knows our best lineup is with berry,Paige,jj,bj,Meeks..JP hurts us on offense and is overrated on d!!..Brice is also in the way of hicks..hicks with his talent should not have to wait until he's a senior to be the man!!..the op asks a legitimate question!!..definitely don't want anyone to leave,but these are answers to the original questions!!

You'd like to see Johnson leave early . . . he was 3rd team ALL-ACC for crissakes.

You'd like to see both Brice and JP leave early or did I read that wrong . . ?




.



.
This post was edited on 4/3 8:01 AM by BillyL

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by RoseHeel:

Originally posted by BillyL:

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

JP OVER INGRAM OR BROWN IS A DEFINITE WOW!!

Go ahead, kick JP Tokoto to the curb, run the bus over him, back it up over him and move on . . . then the following week Jaylen Brown commits to UCLA or Kentucky and Ingram opts for dOOk . .

Heaven forbid that Theo breaks his foot again next season and then you're left sitting in your recliner with nobody to guard anyone on the wing . .

#weeatourownhereatUNC

Billy,

No one is suggesting we throw JP under the bus. But i swear, some here seem to think with too much UNC Blue in their thoughts than others. I root for all players that choose to play in Carolina blue. But I'm not going to pretend our team doesnt need improvement or new recruits. Something that many here have succeaafully done for themselves. Anyone that can say with a straight face they'd take JP over, not only the #1 wing, but the #1 player in the nation is someone i don't think has watched any of our games this season. That's absolutely absurd to me.

My point was that there is absolutely no guarantee that either JB or BI commit to us if Tokoto were to leave. Unless you know something about the #1 and #10 recruits that I do not.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Goodness folks! All the guys mentioned WILL get better between now and seasons start. How much better? No one knows but this old Tar Heels wants them all to work hard and come back ready to take the ACC by storm!

If Brown or Ingram want to be part of that cool, if not, their loss.

Brown will most likely stick with his cash cow, Ingram may go to Duke and get buried. Their choice.

We'll win with them or without them but we will win.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by scoutsupreme:
We don't have a can't miss NBA prospect on the roster....until we have one or two don't expect any championships. There us a reason no one is leaving.

I wouldn't call either Brown of Ingram "can't miss" NBA prospects. Brown is certainly closer, but just because they're ranked high and they abuse high school kids doesn't make them the next LeBron James.

 

[Bur-Heel]

you do know brown is projected as the number one pick in the 16' draft right?

 

[Bur-Heel]

no Billy..i don't want to see either leave early..i was just saying that hicks,Pinson,berry or any recruit we were to sign (if any) would suffer from not getting more minutes that they truly deserve!!

 

[gunslingerdick]

Originally posted by Bur-Heel:

you do know brown is projected as the number one pick in the 16' draft right?

Derrick Caracter, Lenny Cooke, DeJuan Wagner, Felipe Lopez and Schea Cotton all say hello...from wherever the hell they are these days.