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Is UNC Too Cheap (or Too Broke) to Compete?

What Would Jesus Do?

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Nov 28, 2010
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I don't know where the money comes from, but why don't we have enough money to do the complete roster building we need to compete for a championship?

Too harsh?

I really like the players we've added. In the past there have been some headshakers, but I'm OK with all these portal guys. And yet I can't shake the feeling that they fall short of being contenders.

Some of us think another top player (or 2) or even a good backup (or 2) would make us a lot more competitive. Are they wrong?

Some of us think holding onto Drake and maybe Lubin, too, would make us a lot more competitive. Or adding comparable replacements. Are they wrong?

At the risk of earning the ire of those who believe in jinxes, what if Veesaar or Evans or Wilson aren't what we thought, or get injured?

Money might not be the whole solution, but in this wild west, it's certainly a huge part of the equation.

So . . . why isn't there more money?

Should we start a go fund me to finish the job that UNC started but doesn't seem willing/able to finish?
 
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I don't know where the money comes from, but why don't we have enough money to do the complete roster building we need to compete for a championship?

Too harsh?

I really like the players we've added. In the past there have been some headshakers, but I'm OK with all these portal guys. And yet I can't shake the feeling that they fall short of being contenders.

Some of us think another top player (or 2) or even a good backup (or 2) would make us a lot more competitive. Are they wrong?

Some of us think holding onto Drake and maybe Lubin, too, would make us a lot more competitive. Or adding comparable replacements. Are they wrong?

At the risk of earning the ire of those who believe in jinxes, what if Veesaar or Evans or Wilson aren't what we thought, or get injured?

Money might not be the whole solution, but in this wild west, it's certainly a huge part of the equation.

So . . . why isn't there more money?

Should we start a go fund me to finish the job that UNC started but doesn't seem willing/able to finish?
Another " Cheap Shot" from you could concerning UNC. You Post cheap shots daily. All I have to do is look here...
 
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Another " Cheap Shot" from you could concerning UNC. You Post cheap shots daily. All I have to do is look here...
And you never have anything constructive to offer. Just personal attacks.

What did I say that you disagree with? Try having a conversation for a change.

Or is butt-hurt name-calling all you've got?
 
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Wow. Starting to remember why I had OP blocked for on a decade.
Probably for my politics.

Do tough questions make you uncomfortable? Fair enough. But you shouldn't take them personally.

In this era of money talks, would you say UNC is putting up enough money to get the kind of teams we are accustomed to?

I wouldn't. I'm curious where you stand.
 
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Probably for my politics.

As you know, I loathe your political beliefs. And when you venture over to OOTB, we often battle. But I have zero problems with your poasts here on Radar and I'd go as far as to say, that without you poasting here, this board may have shut down at times in the past. You single handedly carry this board in the slower times.

I find it weird to get so bent out of shape about people's thoughts on something so trivial as rooting for a college basketball team.
 
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I don't know where the money comes from, but why don't we have enough money to do the complete roster building we need to compete for a championship?

Too harsh?

I really like the players we've added. In the past there have been some headshakers, but I'm OK with all these portal guys. And yet I can't shake the feeling that they fall short of being contenders.

Some of us think another top player (or 2) or even a good backup (or 2) would make us a lot more competitive. Are they wrong?

Some of us think holding onto Drake and maybe Lubin, too, would make us a lot more competitive. Or adding comparable replacements. Are they wrong?

At the risk of earning the ire of those who believe in jinxes, what if Veesaar or Evans or Wilson aren't what we thought, or get injured?

Money might not be the whole solution, but in this wild west, it's certainly a huge part of the equation.

So . . . why isn't there more money?

Should we start a go fund me to finish the job that UNC started but doesn't seem willing/able to finish?
We just spent a good bit of money on this roster from incoming freshman and portal plus the guys coming back…Top 5 or 10 in the country if you believe the numbers…

I don’t know a roster in the Nation that is not flawed at some position and a injury away from disaster…Hell our Natty Teams had holes on them and were a injury away from disaster…It will never be perfect and you will always need a little luck…
 
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If you're not willing to spend the necessary money, prepare to be average.

Just the way it is now unless you have elite coaching.
 
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I don't know where the money comes from, but why don't we have enough money to do the complete roster building we need to compete for a championship?

Too harsh?

I really like the players we've added. In the past there have been some headshakers, but I'm OK with all these portal guys. And yet I can't shake the feeling that they fall short of being contenders.

Some of us think another top player (or 2) or even a good backup (or 2) would make us a lot more competitive. Are they wrong?

Some of us think holding onto Drake and maybe Lubin, too, would make us a lot more competitive. Or adding comparable replacements. Are they wrong?

At the risk of earning the ire of those who believe in jinxes, what if Veesaar or Evans or Wilson aren't what we thought, or get injured?

Money might not be the whole solution, but in this wild west, it's certainly a huge part of the equation.

So . . . why isn't there more money?

Should we start a go fund me to finish the job that UNC started but doesn't seem willing/able to finish?
"So . . . why isn't there more money?"

I think that is a excellent question, the question I think is top of mind for most all UNC Fans now days. Best I have been able to put together is there are multiple fronts that have seemed to come together that have hit us pretty hard. I will try to piece it together for you but some is opinion (more than a guess) and some is what I consider fact.

1) As we know, we added Tanner really late in the game to be fully ready for the portal opening, Tanner has not even added staff yet, his group was some guys that came together to help us thru the portal.

2) WE lost a lot of our rep over this past season, especially the awful decision to have Hubert negotiating numbers by himself, we were suffering blow back this portal from the last portal.

3) 2 terms to get to know, portal discount and portal tax. You get a portal discount when a player is more willing to play for your program than any other program, example Seth or Hampton in football playing for us for half the money he could have got had he entered the portal. Tax is the extra money you have to pay a kid that does not yet see you as one of the programs he is drawn to. You get taxed for a lot of different reasons, they don't like your approach to offense or defense, they don't totally like the way you may use them, they didn't like the way your team played last season as just a few. We were being taxed pretty hard by a lot of guys we contacted thru the portal so we had to pay a bit more than some other programs.

4) UNC will not spend money that it does not have, some programs do and figure it out later.

5) Right now, the 2 areas that UNC uses to hit the $$$ kids are asking for is the collective and commercial ops, do a commercial for $$$. Example, Bacot and Jimmy's seafood. The commercial ops are down the road money, kids want it all available right now. Some kids don't want to do anything extra other than play ball for the commercial income deals, example the TEnn QB.

6) WE have an emerging additional stream that is in it's infancy now that my understanding is that George Lynch is very involved in to pull together former players in a similar way that duke has had now for several years from duke alums (not just players) that are in addition to their NIL collective. I have heard some talk about another such group coming together of former UNC alums, not players that may be forming to add to the players group.

7) A failure to use the resources we have with the Kenan Flagler business school to come up with creative and effective ideas to add to the pools of income. UGa for example is coming out with their own branded Bourban, many programs sel naming rights, we do none of that. Lets get those creative moinds at our world class business school working on this!

8) UNC is plotting to spend nearly a BILLION on a new arena while other programs are putting their money in to buy players, can we talk about priorities please?

9) WE have a head coach that many feel will not be with us past next season, a lot of players find that as a severe problem because it questions how much our staff will actually help them. Players see guys like Cadeau and Ian going to other programs and they feel we are not developing our talent, that our players are not happy.

10) PLayers see duke has 3 freshmen in the next NBA lotto and UNC has 1 guy that may fall to the second round and we get taxed hard for that.

11) Rev share has not kicked in

12) There are simply a LOT of boosters that refuse to put their money in as long as Hubert is our coach. They felt he was a bad hire when he got the job and will not spend their money until Hubert is gone. They simply do not like that our basketball program was handed over to a rookie and they are in stone with their opinion.

13) Then there is Mike, he does not like paying players to play college ball, there is absolutely nothing that he likes about it and has said several times that he will not spend his money on NIL, several are working on him, maybe one day but not today.

This is off the top of my head, I may have missed a factor or 2 but think I have given you most of the factors that have us limited as compared to some other programs.
 
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Regarding point #7 - I'm committing right now to step up to the plate and pledge that I will stop drinking Jack Daniels and switch to the Kenan Flagler Bourban as soon as production begins. I'll even forgo the aging process as we can't afford to delay. Send first case when available. Any one drinking with me?
 
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Probably for my politics.

Do tough questions make you uncomfortable? Fair enough. But you shouldn't take them personally.

In this era of money talks, would you say UNC is putting up enough money to get the kind of teams we are accustomed to?

I wouldn't. I'm curious where you stand.

"Probably for my politics" PLEASE - no one cares

"Take them personally" PLEASE - give me a break

Hmm- where is it again-- FOUND IT! A decade plus starting... NOW
 
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If they build the new arena, that’s going to cost a ton. The survey they sent out to the Ram’s Club showed a significant bump in prices for tickets, which is understandable. Bubba (mass e-mail) solicits money for NIL and that’s likely where it comes from.

There are 15k or so Ram’s Club members in the rankings I see, not sure if that’s total or active.

I’m not really inclined to spend substantially more at this point as the ask has been made for football and basketball.

I think we are having a hard time getting guys because we aren’t winning. It’s a short term decision for many and they don’t see Hubert as the guy to win a title, so money is only one part of it. We are in a lull of keeping top talent and that’s being used against us.
 
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I'm of the opinion that people that spend money in sports are the ones committed to winning. Those who don't have no excuse why they don't win. That doesn't have to mean spending money on players btw. The Milwaukee Brewers have a low payroll but are consistently competitive in part because they put a ton of resources into their international and domestic scouting systems and consistently find good young cheap talent and develop them. You won't always win because you spend money. But at least you can say the program spent money.

A hypothetical question. Let's say Hubert is fired after next season. As I understand he's signed through 2030 and his buyout would be around $6M if I understand correctly. Does that payment go through the university and is completely separate from NIL? Because if they're intertwined at all and UNC will be paying 2 coaches through 2030, I would imagine that would make UNC even "poorer" then.

It does appear that UNC basketball is pretty late reacting to a rapidly changing economy. They seem to be 2 or 3 years behind in most things. It sounds like they thought the traditional UNC way of doing things would be permanent and never need to be altered.

Adapt or die.
 
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Seems Hubey is caught in a bit of a conundrum.

Players come and transfer, aren't what they are hyped to be or just take a bit longer to get up to speed = he doesn't develop players.

Players come in and perform to/exceed expectations= he can't keep players.
 
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I don't know where the money comes from, but why don't we have enough money to do the complete roster building we need to compete for a championship?

Too harsh?

I really like the players we've added. In the past there have been some headshakers, but I'm OK with all these portal guys. And yet I can't shake the feeling that they fall short of being contenders.

Some of us think another top player (or 2) or even a good backup (or 2) would make us a lot more competitive. Are they wrong?

Some of us think holding onto Drake and maybe Lubin, too, would make us a lot more competitive. Or adding comparable replacements. Are they wrong?

At the risk of earning the ire of those who believe in jinxes, what if Veesaar or Evans or Wilson aren't what we thought, or get injured?

Money might not be the whole solution, but in this wild west, it's certainly a huge part of the equation.

So . . . why isn't there more money?

Should we start a go fund me to finish the job that UNC started but doesn't seem willing/able to finish?
Huh?

Seriously, for this season anyway, that question has been asked and answered. As I mentioned more than once, and Andrew explained yesterday, Drake's contingency financial arrangements were separately in place.

We haven't been getting "out-bid". There are boosters who will put up the extra needed.

Now, with that said, there are also some boosters who have turned off the faucet until they see better results, BUT money is not what has kept up from getting more desirable players in this portal.
 
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As you know, I loathe your political beliefs. And when you venture over to OOTB, we often battle. But I have zero problems with your poasts here on Radar and I'd go as far as to say, that without you poasting here, this board may have shut down at times in the past. You single handedly carry this board in the slower times.

I find it weird to get so bent out of shape about people's thoughts on something so trivial as rooting for a college basketball team.
People Applause GIF by MOODMAN
 
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Seems Hubey is caught in a bit of a conundrum.

Players come and transfer, aren't what they are hyped to be or just take a bit longer to get up to speed = he doesn't develop players.

Players come in and perform to/exceed expectations= he can't keep players.
No one is saying he can’t keep players because they exceeded expectations. No one has exceeded expectations to that level under HD.
 
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No one is saying he can’t keep players because they exceeded expectations. No one has exceeded expectations to that level under HD.
Was Drake a sure fire one and done? I would argue he qualifies but did so DESPITE Hubert, not because of Hubert.

I think there's also an argument for Harrison Ingram that he exceeded expectations and got himself drafted.
 
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Was Drake a sure fire one and done? I would argue he qualifies but did so DESPITE Hubert, not because of Hubert.

I think there's also an argument for Harrison Ingram that he exceeded expectations and got himself drafted.
I have no knowledge or proof, but I have a feeling that if Cadeau and Jackson had stayed, Drake might have stayed too.
 
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"So . . . why isn't there more money?"

I think that is a excellent question, the question I think is top of mind for most all UNC Fans now days. Best I have been able to put together is there are multiple fronts that have seemed to come together that have hit us pretty hard. I will try to piece it together for you but some is opinion (more than a guess) and some is what I consider fact.

1) As we know, we added Tanner really late in the game to be fully ready for the portal opening, Tanner has not even added staff yet, his group was some guys that came together to help us thru the portal.

2) WE lost a lot of our rep over this past season, especially the awful decision to have Hubert negotiating numbers by himself, we were suffering blow back this portal from the last portal.

3) 2 terms to get to know, portal discount and portal tax. You get a portal discount when a player is more willing to play for your program than any other program, example Seth or Hampton in football playing for us for half the money he could have got had he entered the portal. Tax is the extra money you have to pay a kid that does not yet see you as one of the programs he is drawn to. You get taxed for a lot of different reasons, they don't like your approach to offense or defense, they don't totally like the way you may use them, they didn't like the way your team played last season as just a few. We were being taxed pretty hard by a lot of guys we contacted thru the portal so we had to pay a bit more than some other programs.

4) UNC will not spend money that it does not have, some programs do and figure it out later.

5) Right now, the 2 areas that UNC uses to hit the $$$ kids are asking for is the collective and commercial ops, do a commercial for $$$. Example, Bacot and Jimmy's seafood. The commercial ops are down the road money, kids want it all available right now. Some kids don't want to do anything extra other than play ball for the commercial income deals, example the TEnn QB.

6) WE have an emerging additional stream that is in it's infancy now that my understanding is that George Lynch is very involved in to pull together former players in a similar way that duke has had now for several years from duke alums (not just players) that are in addition to their NIL collective. I have heard some talk about another such group coming together of former UNC alums, not players that may be forming to add to the players group.

7) A failure to use the resources we have with the Kenan Flagler business school to come up with creative and effective ideas to add to the pools of income. UGa for example is coming out with their own branded Bourban, many programs sel naming rights, we do none of that. Lets get those creative moinds at our world class business school working on this!

8) UNC is plotting to spend nearly a BILLION on a new arena while other programs are putting their money in to buy players, can we talk about priorities please?

9) WE have a head coach that many feel will not be with us past next season, a lot of players find that as a severe problem because it questions how much our staff will actually help them. Players see guys like Cadeau and Ian going to other programs and they feel we are not developing our talent, that our players are not happy.

10) PLayers see duke has 3 freshmen in the next NBA lotto and UNC has 1 guy that may fall to the second round and we get taxed hard for that.

11) Rev share has not kicked in

12) There are simply a LOT of boosters that refuse to put their money in as long as Hubert is our coach. They felt he was a bad hire when he got the job and will not spend their money until Hubert is gone. They simply do not like that our basketball program was handed over to a rookie and they are in stone with their opinion.

13) Then there is Mike, he does not like paying players to play college ball, there is absolutely nothing that he likes about it and has said several times that he will not spend his money on NIL, several are working on him, maybe one day but not today.

This is off the top of my head, I may have missed a factor or 2 but think I have given you most of the factors that have us limited as compared to some other programs.
Thanks for the reasoned, adult response.
 
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We just spent a good bit of money on this roster from incoming freshman and portal plus the guys coming back…Top 5 or 10 in the country if you believe the numbers…

I don’t know a roster in the Nation that is not flawed at some position and a injury away from disaster…Hell our Natty Teams had holes on them and were a injury away from disaster…It will never be perfect and you will always need a little luck…
You're right, we've spent a lot. And we've added some very good pieces. Not complaining about that. But if feels like the job isn't finished and we have - inexplicably, to me - decided not to finish it.

I hate to settle.
 
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We haven't been getting "out-bid". There are boosters who will put up the extra needed.
If a top player that we might want pulls out of the draft, it's my understanding that we will do nothing because we don't have the money.

Are you saying we will have the money?

Or are you saying we don't need another top player?

Does Hubert think we should be done?
 
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If a top player that we might want pulls out of the draft, it's my understanding that we will do nothing because we don't have the money.

Are you saying we will have the money?

Or are you saying we don't need another top player?

Does Hubert think we should be done?
I was pretty clear as to the situation.
 
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If a top player that we might want pulls out of the draft, it's my understanding that we will do nothing because we don't have the money.

Are you saying we will have the money?

Or are you saying we don't need another top player?

Does Hubert think we should be done?
As I understand it....

If a top flight player pulls out of the draft and we want and need him, it would be up to the special groups (boosters, alums, former players) to put together his NIL package as ours is apparently almost tapped out. That is where Drakes money appeared and disappeared to.

Sounds like that special group didn't think Peija Jr was worth the investment. I happen to agree with them.
 
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If a top player that we might want pulls out of the draft, it's my understanding that we will do nothing because we don't have the money.

Are you saying we will have the money?

Or are you saying we don't need another top player?

Does Hubert think we should be done?
Yes, the NIL collective is not all the sources money can come from.

But here is my larger concern, the asking price for players has near if not more than doubled in the last year. Do you really think those prices will plateau and stay the same NEXT year? I see a situation where the cost is going up and we are already struggling to come up with the needed pay role now? I am not just talking about UNC here, I am talking EVERY college that has a football or basketball program, this is a death by a thousand cuts, well for many college basketball programs it is a few million cuts? This thing is imploding in on itself and folks are paying out millions to watch it?

How long before any sane booster keeps paying more and more and get the same return before he says enough, I'm done, I'm out? What irony, our love for the game is what kills it...
 
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I can't believe fans are just sitting here watching college sports get ruined.

It's maddening to me.

Head coaches have no control of recruiting anymore.
 
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But here is my larger concern, the asking price for players has near if not more than doubled in the last year. Do you really think those prices will plateau and stay the same NEXT year?
The NCAA or schools or somebody has to settle this down. Until then, if UNC wants to maintain its status and appeal, it will have to be prepared to pay what the market demands.

While I'm disappointed that UNC seems unwilling to gather the talent of a top contender, imagine how bad this situation is for smaller schools with little money to spend.
 
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I don't know where the money comes from, but why don't we have enough money to do the complete roster building we need to compete for a championship?

Too harsh?

I really like the players we've added. In the past there have been some headshakers, but I'm OK with all these portal guys. And yet I can't shake the feeling that they fall short of being contenders.

Some of us think another top player (or 2) or even a good backup (or 2) would make us a lot more competitive. Are they wrong?

Some of us think holding onto Drake and maybe Lubin, too, would make us a lot more competitive. Or adding comparable replacements. Are they wrong?

At the risk of earning the ire of those who believe in jinxes, what if Veesaar or Evans or Wilson aren't what we thought, or get injured?

Money might not be the whole solution, but in this wild west, it's certainly a huge part of the equation.

So . . . why isn't there more money?

Should we start a go fund me to finish the job that UNC started but doesn't seem willing/able to finish?
Multiple sources reporting that money isn't the problem. I'm sure it's less than Duke/UK, but apparently UNC has one of the top 10 basketball NIL budgets on the country. I think the bigger issues are:

1. We aren't using the budget effectively enough
2. We unfortunately, don't have a coaching staff that maximizes the output of the players on the roster to their fullest
 
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