Legitimate topic of discussion

[thaUNCshow]

I swear im not questioning the thought process of a coach with a 79 career winning percentage, but for God's sake has Roy ever heard of a face guard or a box and 1? I swear every time we play a mid major or a smaller school one guy has the game of his life. In fact last time we played Davidson Gibbs had the game of his life too.

On the pro side of playing a normal defense I can see that it doesnt allow the less capable players to beat you and they probably never get into a rhythm because one guy is taking all the shots and carrying the offense and you let their star "get his" and make someone else beat you (and the guy doing all the scoring is probably worn down by crunch time and is less likely to close out the game and win) but I can't help but think that this would be a 30 point game tonight if we simply picked Gibbs up at full court and forced someone else to beat us. Not knocking Davidson, theyre a well coached team that plays a clean style and will likely make the tournament, but they have maybe two players that could play for an ACC team. Does anyone know why we don't switch up the defense against these kind of teams when it's clear only one and sometimes two of their players even belong on the court against us?

 

[gobblercalls]

2 of the 3 best defensive players on the team were on the bench. They just happened to be the 2 that probably would have guarded the 2 best offensive players on the other team. Early fouls on Hicks and Williams probably took some of the aggressiveness away from them. That would at least be my best guess as to what was wrong last night.

 

[goheels653]

2 of the 3 best defensive players on the team were on the bench. They just happened to be the 2 that probably would have guarded the 2 best offensive players on the other team. Early fouls on Hicks and Williams probably took some of the aggressiveness away from them. That would at least be my best guess as to what was wrong last night.

For real... talk about overreactions all around after that game. Did anyone really think we would look like a final four team without Berry? Agree that letting them back in the game was disconcerting, but let's take it easy here and view this game for what it was.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

For real... talk about overreactions all around after that game. Did anyone really think we would look like a final four team without Berry? Agree that letting them back in the game was disconcerting, but let's take it easy here and view this game for what it was.

I don't think questioning things after squeaking by Davidson is overreacting. We didn't look anything close to the #7 team in the nation last night.

 

[gobblercalls]

I don't think questioning things after squeaking by Davidson is overreacting. We didn't look anything close to the #7 team in the nation last night.

We weren't the #7 team in the country last night. 40% of the starting lineup was in street clothes. That game also demonstrated that Berry is a whole lot more important to this team than "just" being the starting point guard.

 

[goheels653]

I don't think questioning things after squeaking by Davidson is overreacting. We didn't look anything close to the #7 team in the nation last night.

If Berry isn't in the team, we aren't the #7 team in the nation, so... again, given the roster, what did anyone expect? For 38 minutes we were a solid 10-15 points better. I acknowledged it was disconcerting to let them back in, but that was a 2 minute run. And it was bad. But they got it together and pulled away again. I just don't think it was altogether a cause for concern. If Berry's ankle is seriously injured, I'll be concerned.

 

[Tom79]

I don't think questioning things after squeaking by Davidson is overreacting. We didn't look anything close to the #7 team in the nation last night.

Kids in short weeks/practice, exams...geez, we have to do this every season.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Kids in short weeks/practice, exams...geez, we have to do this every season.

Oh, does Duke, Villanova, Kentucky, et al not have short weeks, exams, practice? How silly of me

 

[GoNtheDistance]

If you ask some of our fans, you'd think our bag of excuses for some of our players, Roy on the recruiting trail, etc was endless. We are the only program who has to take exams, go to class, and recruit. It's amazing.

 

[UNC71-00]

We weren't the #7 team in the country last night. 40% of the starting lineup was in street clothes. That game also demonstrated that Berry is a whole lot more important to this team than "just" being the starting point guard.

Yep. Roy's teams require high level PG play. Always have, always will.

 

[Tom79]

Oh, does Duke, Villanova, Kentucky, et al not have short weeks, exams, practice? How silly of me

You did not read my post or understand it.

No, we always do the same exercise every exam period before Christmas break every basketball season. Plug in the tape from 7 to 10 years ago...same stuff and yes, every D1 school does the same....so, based upon that you are kinda silly given your response.

Or go with coach speak:
'More gifted.' That's a junior echoing something he must have heard his head coach say dozens of times. 'More gifted.' That's the phrase Williams goes to when his team secures a win over a non-conference opponent early in the season. More gifted. Not 'played better.' Not 'fought harder.' With those two words, Williams is often –not always, mind you– saying that he's not necessarily impressed with his team's effort. 'More gifted.' Sometimes, 'more gifted' wins. Sometimes, 'more gifted' nearly blows a 16-point lead at home.

 

[notashelbyfan]

You did not read my post or understand it.

No, we always do the same exercise every exam period before Christmas break every basketball season. Plug in the tape from 7 to 10 years ago...same stuff and yes, every D1 school does the same....so, based upon that you are kinda silly given your response.

Or go with coach speak:
'More gifted.' That's a junior echoing something he must have heard his head coach say dozens of times. 'More gifted.' That's the phrase Williams goes to when his team secures a win over a non-conference opponent early in the season. More gifted. Not 'played better.' Not 'fought harder.' With those two words, Williams is often –not always, mind you– saying that he's not necessarily impressed with his team's effort. 'More gifted.' Sometimes, 'more gifted' wins. Sometimes, 'more gifted' nearly blows a 16-point lead at home.

I think @TarHeelNation11 point was those other teams are not struggling with mid majors during Christmas and exams but we are and some want to use it as an excuse with us!

 

[Tom79]

No excuse, Davidson, Buler, (opps, Indiana St.) and Zags are not slouches...do those teams have injuries, yes, absent players, yes, every team has the same issues. Our kids were listless and did not come back out with energy. No excuse. But to me and my memory UNC has always had a game like this one last night that gets us in trouble, (play down to them or not show up and we can lose), around the holidays.

 

[UNC71-00]

No excuse, Davidson, Buler, (opps, Indiana St.) and Zags are not slouches...do those teams have injuries, yes, absent players, yes, every team has the same issues. Our kids were listless and did not come back out with energy. No excuse. But to me and my memory UNC has always had a game like this one last night that gets us in trouble, (play down to them or not show up and we can lose), around the holidays.

True, and with Berry out, we were fortunate to win this one.

However, it doesn't seem that other blue bloods have the same issue with mid-majors in December, but my memory may be selective here.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Hard to look good with your starting backcourt in street clothes. How many teams could pull that off?

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Plug in the tape from 7 to 10 years ago...same stuff and yes, every D1 school does the same....so, based upon that you are kinda silly given your response.

Lol

 

[Ozheelfan]

However, it doesn't seem that other blue bloods have the same issue with mid-majors in December, but my memory may be selective here.

Every team has games where they play below par, and some top teams even lose those games.... look at Indiana against Ft Wayne.

I remember Tiger Woods (in the middle of a 7 tournament winning streak) being asked by a reporter if he thinks he's playing perfect golf.... Tiger looked right at the reporter and said: "There's no such thing as perfect"

With teenagers, students, etc theres even less likelihood of perfect.
Thus, for us fans (most way older, and supposedly more mature) to expect perfection is foolish.

 

[UNC71-00]

Every team has games where they play below par, and some top teams even lose those games.... look at Indiana against Ft Wayne.

I remember Tiger Woods (in the middle of a 7 tournament winning streak) being asked by a reporter if he thinks he's playing perfect golf.... Tiger looked right at the reporter and said: "There's no such thing as perfect"

With teenagers, students, etc theres even less likelihood of perfect.
Thus, for us fans (most way older, and supposedly more mature) to expect perfection is foolish.

No one is arguing that a particular team doesn't occasionally play flat. The question being discussed (I think) is whether or not Carolina routinely has issues being flat against lesser teams in December.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Why is constructive criticism ANYWAYS taken as bashing or hate by some posters!

It's just a point if discussion not a debate on the end of the world!

 

[notashelbyfan]

Yep. Roy's teams require high level PG play. Always have, always will.

How nasty would some of Roy's teams been with Ed Cota playing the point unbeatable!

 

[Ozheelfan]

No one is arguing that a particular team doesn't occasionally play flat. The question being discussed (I think) is whether or not Carolina routinely has issues being flat against lesser teams in December.

Fair comment and yep, it does seem that way.
Maybe it's by design, can hardly believe it'd be from oversight.
Either way, if the team is firing in March a flat December win is quite OK with me.

 

[dgheel57]

Bottom line,our boys thought this was gonna be a cake walk. the only players that did come to play was Jackson and Maye

 

[DSouthr]

I think @TarHeelNation11 point was those other teams are not struggling with mid majors during Christmas and exams but we are and some want to use it as an excuse with us!

And yet we seem to always struggle during exams, practice becomes more of a shoot around with so many kids having to prep for exams and scheduling them. Not saying this was the main reason we played so poorly vs Davidson, a factor sure but mostly it was extremely poor PG play and a over all lack of intensity.

 

[IDUNK4HEELS]

I guess everyone is smart enough to know that the young men on the team were prepping for their mid term exams and practices and preparation time were shorten so to give them extra study time. Maybe you didn't consider that?

 

[goheels653]

I just don't think exams have anything to do with a 2 minute stretch where Davidson went on a run and cut our lead down. Otherwise, the team didn't play that poorly. And, the most important factor in any decline in performance was not having a healthy Joel Berry. It's pretty absurd that we're even discussing what was wrong with the team in this game, if anything. It couldn't be more obvious.

 

[dadika13]

Bottom line,our boys thought this was gonna be a cake walk. the only players that did come to play was Jackson and Maye

Really? I think playing without 2 of our best 5 players had something to do with that game.

 

[montana_heel]

I'm sure those things didn't help BUT when you take out the starters and the 2nd 5 plays better, you aren't playing well. I would guess the 2nd 5 had exams too.

We didn't play well. Simple. Why. Maybe more complex. Seems we have a game every year during December like this. Might be a good sign that it ended up as a win instead of traditionally being a loss.


I sometimes wonder if Roy doesn't cut some slack to have teachable moments before conference play begins. I might be getting too deep there but it wouldn't surprise me.

I also don't think the substitution patterns help for early games but pay big dividends toward the end of the season. Roy's insistence on playing a ton of players has traditionally paid off in many ways in the past so I don't want this to come off that I think it is a bad thing.

 

[dadika13]

I'm sure those things didn't help BUT when you take out the starters and the 2nd 5 plays better, you aren't playing well. I would guess the 2nd 5 had exams too.

We didn't play well. Simple. Why. Maybe more complex. Seems we have a game every year during December like this. Might be a good sign that it ended up as a win instead of traditionally being a loss.


I sometimes wonder if Roy doesn't cut some slack to have teachable moments before conference play begins. I might be getting too deep there but it wouldn't surprise me.

I also don't think the substitution patterns help for early games but pay big dividends toward the end of the season. Roy's insistence on playing a ton of players has traditionally paid off in many ways in the past so I don't want this to come off that I think it is a bad thing.

Good post, agree with everything here.

Our substitution patterns absolutely help us later in the year as our 2nd 5 don't have the deer in headlights look in big games in February and March.

 

[jeans15]

Roy can improve but he is not going too...Set in his ways and it has been very productive for him.

I just don't like that he only uses his talent for offense. Instead of aggressive defense. What does it matter to be 10 deep when you play as if you are 7 deep.

It's why his teams don't play as fast as he wants....You have to get turnovers to play fast....Not just in the half court.

 

[Archer2]

Bottom line,our boys thought this was gonna be a cake walk. the only players that did come to play was Jackson and Maye

That was part of it. Having our most indispensible player on the bench didn't help either, nor did having another one of our top 5 out. We never look our best early in the season, and despite dominating in Maui, our best ball is ahead of us.

I sometimes wonder if Roy doesn't cut some slack to have teachable moments before conference play begins. I might be getting too deep there but it wouldn't surprise me.

I also don't think the substitution patterns help for early games but pay big dividends toward the end of the season. Roy's insistence on playing a ton of players has traditionally paid off in many ways in the past so I don't want this to come off that I think it is a bad thing.

I think both of these statements are true. A coach once told me the most difficult thing in team sports was trying to get young people to focus for 40-60 minutes. At that age, the attention span just isn't developed enough.

 

[notashelbyfan]

And yet we seem to always struggle during exams, practice becomes more of a shoot around with so many kids having to prep for exams and scheduling them. Not saying this was the main reason we played so poorly vs Davidson, a factor sure but mostly it was extremely poor PG play and a over all lack of intensity.

I know we struggle during this time of year I'm not defending either way I was just clarifying @TarHeelNation11 I felt like what he was saying was being misrepresented!

 

[notashelbyfan]

It's funny about this topic the play by play guy yesterday said something blaming Carolina sluggish play on exams and Bilas said "wait a second Tennessee has exams this week to"

Just thought that was important to our conversation!

 

[TarHeelNation11]

It's funny about this topic the play by play guy yesterday said something blaming Carolina sluggish play on exams and Bilas said "wait a second Tennessee has exams this week to"

Just thought that was important to our conversation!

You were correct in clarifying my position. Thank you. Like Jay Bilas, I feel the exam excuse is pretty lame. It ain't like our players are prepping for molecular biology final exams (which I'm fine with! Just making a point).

Besides, studying and taking tests sucks. You'd think they'd be so excited to get away from that and get back on the court that they'd come out and play with their hair on fire.

All of that being said, I think our struggles have a lot to do with missing Joel Berry. It's probably that simple. I'd like to see us better cope with missing one player, but PG is too important in Roy's system.

 

[dadika13]

All of that being said, I think our struggles have a lot to do with missing Joel Berry. It's probably that simple. I'd like to see us better cope with missing one player, but PG is too important in Roy's system.

I feel like it has everything to do with missing Joel Berry and it that simple. Great PG's are like great QB's, they have an impact on the entire team.

 

[UNC71-00]

It's funny about this topic the play by play guy yesterday said something blaming Carolina sluggish play on exams and Bilas said "wait a second Tennessee has exams this week to"

Just thought that was important to our conversation!

Exactly.