Michael Porter, Jr.
- Thread starter Steat
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lol
This is the new way - none and done. Kids are finding a way to get around being exposed in college. It's basically saying, "I've been overhyped but I don't want to ruin it by playing in college."
This whole OAD thing is jokey. This shit needs fixing quickly. Just let kids play right out of high school. If the Korleone Youngs of the world continue to get bad advice and declare with little chance of making it in the NBA, then so be it.
This is the new way - none and done. Kids are finding a way to get around being exposed in college. It's basically saying, "I've been overhyped but I don't want to ruin it by playing in college."
This whole OAD thing is jokey. This shit needs fixing quickly. Just let kids play right out of high school. If the Korleone Youngs of the world continue to get bad advice and declare with little chance of making it in the NBA, then so be it.
Yeah I’m sure that was first thing on his and the team doctors’ minds. His 21 points in 23 minutes against KU just screamed overhyped.
Couldn't disagree more. There is a 0% chance Porter is faking the injury.
Sure he would have. He was selected 20th after looking very pedestrian during his entire freshman year. @Hark_The_Sound_2010 is saying that had he sat out the whole year, people wouldn't have noticed that he was damaged goods and he would have been able to ride his high school hype to a selection in the lottery. Unprovable, but I tend to agree with the hypothesis.
The sad thing is that Giles may be the next Greg Oden. The kid never should have played last year.
I don't think playing at duke hurt his future abilities. So if he was destined to be the next Greg Oden, then he was already destined for that before he got to duke. In other words, I think all he hurt by playing at duke was his draft status.
Again, no he wouldn't have. Any sane Orthopedist would have said to take him later, especially if he didn't step back on the court prior to the NBA. I get it, you hate Duke and K, but let's not go conspiracy theory here.
Are you comparing the player or the injury? Really doesn't matter either way as both are poor comparisons since Giles and Oden are/were different styles of players (arguably in a different era already) and comparing a ligament tear/rebuild (return to sport upwards of 85%) to a microfracture surgery (return to sport of 40%) is clinically reckless.
Who's going conspiracy theory? @Hark_The_Sound_2010 and I are making a rational and legitimate argument that had Giles not played, he would have been selected higher. Nothing about what I wrote would indicate "I'm hating" on duke. I don't play that shit. If I want to say something about K, duke, or you, I'll say it. I don't mince words. So, no, this not some subtle attack of K and duke. It's a legit point. I'd bet many of your duke brethren would agree. @tw3301, @timo0402 @BOOGIEMAN1914
It's a "legit point" that has no clinical (and little athletic) rationale. I'll wait for you to, again, explain to me how sitting out would have changed an already conservative (at least mid- to late- first round pick) idea/selection.
Then again you did say that Porter Jr. faked his back injury. I guess we'll just ignore the fact that his surgical treatment/records will need to be reviewed by interested nba teams. Lol. We all know an intentional, unnecessary surgery is part of the Hippocratic oath (sarcasm).
If really does not matter to the average fan who does not dive into the minutia. The average fan could care less about the injury comparisons you bring up. Bottomline, If Giles does not recover from his injuries, he will be linked to Oden by default. The kid never should have played last year. I win this argument because look where he is right now. I wish the best for the kid as I was preaching from the begining that he should have never played last year. Spin it any way you want to, but Giles NBA career is in serous jeopardy and K-rat played a part in it.
First of all, no where did I say Porter "faked" an injury. I was simply using his incident as a way to poke fun and express frustration with the whole OAD system in college hoops. I guess I could have said he pulled a "Kyrie". You might have understood that better then. But frankly, I don't really give a damn about Porter, his back or Mizzou. Let's talk about Giles since that's where you've taken me to task.
I'll try my best to explain the thought process behind my and hark's hypothesis. Giles was all world in high school. Supposedly the best prospect since _____________ (insert whatever name you like). By not playing, duke could have kept putting out word that Giles was recovering well, gaining his explosiveness back, yada, yada, yada. And GMs would have bought in whole hog. And he very possibly would have gone top 5. But since he played and showed that after recovery, he wasn't what he was built up to be, he dropped in the draft.
I can't be the only one that finds it odd you're struggling with this concept. When he was drafted, the recruitniks said a lot of the same.
No point in arguing what might have happened, Giles chose to play, he was drafted in the first round. I have a hard time seeing an NBA team drafting someone in the lottery that hasn't played since his junior year of high school and has had multiple ACL tears but they do dumb things all the time so who knows.
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They really do dumb things all the time, like drafting Harry Giles 18th overall lol
That is the worst cop-out I've seen you pull, and it's damn-impressive. The two situations are as similar as comparing a Ford Pinto to a Teala, simply because they're modes of transportation. Awful.
Giles would have fallen further had he not played. Why? Because, while he had a tear in each knee repaired (with subsequent clean up in one), a kid sitting out completely would have raised much higher red flags than what are there today. Giles also wanted to play from day 1 on campus but K and staff held him out to ensure he passed all surveillance/checks. Your conspiracy is massively flawed, but I get it, you hate K. All good.
I've taken you to task with Porter as well, you know, the kid you care so "less" about that you were the first to comment and allude that he faked the injury. Yea, I'm making that up so much that someone else called you on it before I even arrived. Please do clarify, though: is Porter finding a way out by faking a back injury/disc protrusion?
For Giles; you haven't provided anything yet again. As with Steat, you hate K. All good. And why would Duke say "he's regaining explosiveness" yet not let him work out? You do realize workouts for NBA teams and scouts are at game intensity? No one is taking a kid with 3 surgeries on 2 knees, who hasn't played since 16 years old, as a top 5 pick, not even a NBA team (with their not always rational thinking).
I'm not going to change your opinion, ahem hatred for K, here but I do suggest learning a bit more about how clinical situations interact with athletic situations, and how obtuse you appear when trying to speak on the above 2 scenarios. Good day, and good luck against MSU this evening - should be a war.
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Strongly disagree, first work outs for NBA teams are done at game intensity? Really, did ya think about that before ya wrote it? Excuse me but you are not going to import game intensity to a work out, they may go hard but there is no way they can get to game intensity.
Next, the #1 rated kid in his class, a considered new version of Kevin Garnett, that is what Giles was considered as a recruit. All the NBA had to see was doctors reports on his likely recovery, IDK how far his playing and not looking good hurt his draft ability but it darn sure didn't help it any.
Wow, just wow. So NBA scouts "dumb down" workouts to protect kids they're about to spend millions on? That makes sense.
So you read what I said, you quoted it so I assume you read it...and yet this is what your read indicated I said? OK, so we know reading isn't your strong point...Have they told ya when they are promoting you to fries?
Slow down, read it again David. It's not hard to see what I'm saying. Then again, you believe that franchises don't consult physicians (including Orthopedics) during evaluation so I'm not surprised....apologies you don't understand medicine, and how it's intertwined with sport.
First the semantics of this discussion aren't important enough for this many posts. Second, he never said anything about 'dumbing down" anything; he said that practice/workouts never have the same intensity as a game! This point cannot be argued; its simply true.
I fall on the side that resting, healing, and working out with pro trainers would have been better for Giles. I also know he still got drafted fairly high so he will be fine. An analog to me is the situation with TB. Staying another year could easily have vaulted him into the top 5 draft picks, but he was still drafted in the first round so how bad was he hurt? Well, he has spent the vast majority of the season in the G league and received not one minute on the court in the league. All experts agree that he needs development and I believe it would have been better to develop in college. How many top 5 picks spend their first year in the G when they aren't injured? Contrast that with how many times the last picks in the first round receive a high level second contract.
I fall on the side that resting, healing, and working out with pro trainers would have been better for Giles. I also know he still got drafted fairly high so he will be fine. An analog to me is the situation with TB. Staying another year could easily have vaulted him into the top 5 draft picks, but he was still drafted in the first round so how bad was he hurt? Well, he has spent the vast majority of the season in the G league and received not one minute on the court in the league. All experts agree that he needs development and I believe it would have been better to develop in college. How many top 5 picks spend their first year in the G when they aren't injured? Contrast that with how many times the last picks in the first round receive a high level second contract.
I like to keep it simple, stupid. If Giles is retired in a few years and the average fan asks the question "What happened to Giles"? I respond by saying he turned out to be another Greg Oden. That sinks in with the average fan. Most folks could care less about your college thesis. They just don't.
You do realize that resting and working out with pro trainers are at the opposite ends of the spectrum? You don't want to get into semantics yet you need to - his movement signature is tested the same whether in a PRO workout or game setting. It's obvious that you don't know much about movement signatures, or profiles, and how a game and workout affect them the same. It's okay, it's a unique field that the casual observer wouldn't know much about. I recommend you start at a site like this to learn more about it - no I'm not trolling, it's an interesting field that will open your eyes.
http://uprightmovement.com/movement-signature-testing-performance-restorative-training/
You keep it simple because you don't understand what's beyond it. Let's say you're a programmer for a living - I could care less to learn (in depth) about it because it doesn't mean much to me. In this case, you don't understand the clinical difference, I called you out, and it upset you. I'm pretty sure I'll get banned soon even though I haven't attacked you. I've simply clarified a critical point, and again, that bothered you.
This is pointless now. You're going to continue your quest for "trying to be correct" but sadly you're not. It's a physical impossibility to realistically compare Oden and Giles. Have a good day - see you all during ACC play.
Good day
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Does the Dook Internet Defense Force, that seems to love to invade in droves, realize they have their own board?
JFC.
JFC.
Does the Dook Internet Defense Force, that seems to love to invade in droves, realize they have their own board?
JFC.
Good question. I've decided they need to download a mapping app. I'm constantly tempted to tell them they're lost & try to point them in the right direction. Their board is out there. They apparently need someone to help them find it. This is not the board for them. On a positive note, I feel fortunate to have a coach that I don't feel the need to troll the internet to defend.
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Why are you mods letting the dook douchebag on here insult Tar Heel fans? Ban the mother****er.
In all honesty the dookie hasnt insulted anyone. Yes condescending at times but no insults that i see. Yet hes been insulted numerous times. Twice by u. The thread is good reading. No need to freak out if an opposing fan wants to defend their team.
But @SoCal_Dukie3 is a typical duke douchebag. They don't really even like him at DI. Ask @ticket2ride04 about him. From what I recently read at DI, he takes this message boarding stuff seriously.
I'm not advocating banning him. But if not, I hope the mods will look the other way during my correspondence with him.
Yea i aint denying his douchebaggerishnessitivity. Just dont see any reason to ban him. Lord knows our own posters go at each other much worse
It's impossible to prove what would have happened. But I strongly believe he would have gone higher than he did had he not exposed himself when he did play. I get it, you slurp Duke and K - but let's not sound like a complete moron while trying to fabricate a reality that neither of us can factually prove.
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