More contact for the college game?

[DSouthr]

I noticed an interesting thread on TOS and wanted to bring it here to see and share thoughts. Now that thread title asks should the college game be called more like the NBA? But I would pare that down and ask, should more physical contact be allowed in the college game?

As for my personal opinion yeah, actually would like to see the game allow for more contact, I really do not like the cheap touch fouls NCAA refs seem to call way to often. I am not saying allow the goon squad to come out but college refs IMO are making a joke out of things. Basketball is not ballet, it actually is a contact sport. But the NCAA refs are blowing the whistle at the slightest bump, even at times no bump at all but they expected a slight bump. It kills game flow, it takes players out of their game to the extent that most don't really know what a foul is until the almighty refs exerts his unquestionable authority a blows his whistle. Just my opinion but geez, I don't like a game the refs dictate more than the players get to and that happens far to much. Get the refs out of the way and let these kids play ball, if it is a clear foul that gives a player an advantage over his opponent then it is a foul call it but stop with the cheap stuff.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Yes, I'd like more contact to be allowed. I hate watching touch fouls called over and over. I guess basketball, in its origin, was designed to be a non-contact sport (?), but this isn't how it has evolved. Allow more contact. Nothing disrupts the flow of games like constant whistles out on the perimeter.

 

[heelmanwilm]

I would esp like the nba charge no call to be adopted. Basically u gotta lower your shoulder and bull doze a stationery defender in the most egregious manner to get called for charging. The dook style flopping is an embarrassment to the game.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I would esp like the nba charge no call to be adopted. Basically u gotta lower your shoulder and bull doze a stationery defender in the most egregious manner to get called for charging. The dook style flopping is an embarrassment to the game.

Yep, it's ridiculous that you get "rewarded" for just sliding over and standing there and letting someone knock you over. IMO.

 

[keysersosay#1]

I agree with the above comments both the block/ charge and the "touch" fouls drive me crazy. The doochies have made a living off of touch fouls for.. well ...EVER and have won countless games they did not deserve to win, with the zebras bailing them out in the last 5- 10 minutes of a game .

 

[soap - new and improved]

TLDR Version - Call only (and all) contact that creates a real advantage for a player/team.

There is a disconnect in the way fouls are called in NCAA basketball. On the one hand, MANY nonsense touch fouls are called even when they have ZERO effect on the game. IE, in no way impede the ability of the fouled player to make their plays, score, or maintain their positions. Some examples - small bumps or touches 20+ feet from the hoop. Usually guards are the recipients of these nonsense foul calls that gain no real advantage for the defender.

Yet where the bigger guys are concerned FAR to much hard fouling, bumping shoving, grabbing, slapping is allowed, and in MANY cases has a direct negative effect on a bigs ability to score, or maintain position. These are fouls that directly gain advantages for the defense when they are not called as they should be.

Then there are fouls not called that gain clear advantages for guards - one huge example is when a ball handler shoves off (gaining a clear advantage) with no call, or sometimes, a foul called on the defender. Barber from NC State almost never took a "guarded" three without clearly shoving the defender away with his off arm. That is a clear foul that gains a clear advantage.

It is so rarely called properly, that the opposing coach (Boeheim?) nearly had a heart attack when his guys were called for it (correctly) multiple times in one of our victories this season. And I understand where his outrage originated. 95% of the time the refs ignore that Crap, and he wondered (rightly so) "why are you calling it repeatedly in THIS game??"

Another example is when a ball handler leaps into a defender. SO many times the guy who fouled (ball handler) is instead rewarded with a trip to the line. A defender MUST be allowed a place on the court!

Charges need to be called. Defense is and should always be an important part of basketball. When one player has established position and an opponent physically moves them from that position it is a FOUL, and should always be called.

In short, any time a physical contact creates a real advantage for a player, the player who initiated the contact should be called for damn foul!

Reality is, Officiating is a ^$%!#$%^&! mess and I do not expect it to get any better, and probably it will get worse. The NBA reached a point where I could no longer stand to watch it due to lousy officiating and at times some HIGHLY suspicious outcomes driven by "reffing".

College ball sadly has been moving in a similar direction, and it gets harder and harder to watch every year.

If I did not so dearly love my Tar Heels I would have dropped it long ago, same as I did with NBA and NFL.

 

[Ozheelfan]

I'd like to see harsher penalties for obvious foul milking..... call technicals on floppers who'd fall over if an ant farted plus penalise all exponents of the 'dookie whiplash'

 

[gobblercalls]

I'll play the devil's advocate. I'd like to see the game less physical. The game was played the way it was supposed to be played before the Laimbeer/Thomas Pistons and the Big 10/Big East bruiser ball was introduced. The days when Lucas/Elmore/McMillan played against Thompson/Towe/Burleson and Karl/Jones/Kupchak was the way the game was meant to be played. Nowadays if you lack the talent or coaching abilities of the other team you need only out physical them. This is the way sheshitski got to the top, and he still resorts to it when need be. It's what got Villanova the title last year. I just don't think physical play should be allowed to trump better coaching and more talent.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Nowadays if you lack the talent or coaching abilities of the other team you need only out physical them. This is the way sheshitski got to the top, and he still resorts to it when need be. It's what got Villanova the title last year. I just don't think physical play should be allowed to trump better coaching and more talent.

No it isn't. Great shooting got them the title.

 

[gary-7]

I noticed an interesting thread on TOS and wanted to bring it here to see and share thoughts. Now that thread title asks should the college game be called more like the NBA? But I would pare that down and ask, should more physical contact be allowed in the college game?

As for my personal opinion yeah, actually would like to see the game allow for more contact, I really do not like the cheap touch fouls NCAA refs seem to call way to often. I am not saying allow the goon squad to come out but college refs IMO are making a joke out of things. Basketball is not ballet, it actually is a contact sport. But the NCAA refs are blowing the whistle at the slightest bump, even at times no bump at all but they expected a slight bump. It kills game flow, it takes players out of their game to the extent that most don't really know what a foul is until the almighty refs exerts his unquestionable authority a blows his whistle. Just my opinion but geez, I don't like a game the refs dictate more than the players get to and that happens far to much. Get the refs out of the way and let these kids play ball, if it is a clear foul that gives a player an advantage over his opponent then it is a foul call it but stop with the cheap stuff.

Nothing in college should be more like the NBA. The issue is arbitrary officiating. Even with the sanctioned mayhem in the NBA they'll still turn around and call a touch foul. Coaches like Terry Holland and Rat have been trying to force more contact into the game for years, and the results have been ruinous.

 

[gary-7]

No it isn't. Great shooting got them the title.

They shot well but don't sniff the title without all the zebra help.

 

[DSouthr]

Nothing in college should be more like the NBA. The issue is arbitrary officiating. Even with the sanctioned mayhem in the NBA they'll still turn around and call a touch foul. Coaches like Terry Holland and Rat have been trying to force more contact into the game for years, and the results have been ruinous.

Oh man, I disagree, if the NBA gets something right then the college game should take a look as well. The block/charge circle was a good example, it cut down on those clear duke flops, at least those inside the circle. I personally would love to see the college trey extended to the NBA trey distance as another example.

I do not want the college game to become the NBA game, I do not like all the isolation stuff but in the college game you do not have guys able to play that game as you do in the NBA.

I do not like the touch fouls being called, I am fine with the hand checks and allowing the bumps on a driver as long as no advantage is gained. Most of the arbitrary NBA fouls are given to the star players benefit, I do not like that at all, every player should be treated the same way by the refs. You have so many on ball touch fouls called by NCAA refs and so much contact allowed down low in large part because NCAA refs ball watch, looking for the slightest of bumps from the defender so they can blow their whistle. Blow it on a clear foul, it is what is suppose to happen but to whistle a defender for breathing on a kid is not what the game is about.

Contact that gives either player a distinct advantage is a foul on the player that gets the advantage, notice I did not say slight advantage, I said distinct advantage, meaning clear advantage. That is not how the college game is being called for all 5 players on the court. The ball handler gets the slight advantage call and inside the paint they call it by distinct advantage. A foul should be a foul, no matter who does or does not have the ball. It should be called the same on or off ball, it isn't. You can not blow the whistle for slight advantage contact inside the paint or no team would have enough players to finish a half, they would have to play the second half with cheer leaders & ball boys.

One thing that has become more like the NBA that I do not like is the offensive players are able to initiate more contact than the defensive player is allowed to. cat barber, as someone else mentioned could push off before his shot but let a defender bump him and the defender gets the whistle? Either play on or call the foul on the guy that gets the distinct advantage but call it both ways. You never see a jump shooter called for a foul but you constantly see defenders called for fouls on jump shooters that are clear flops? A flop can not by definition be contact that gives a distinct advantage because a flop comes from at most slight contact (and many times no contact at all) that the shooter adds drama to and I personally do not think the offensive player should benefit from that.

 

[HeelFan58]

I'll play the devil's advocate. I'd like to see the game less physical. The game was played the way it was supposed to be played before the Laimbeer/Thomas Pistons and the Big 10/Big East bruiser ball was introduced. The days when Lucas/Elmore/McMillan played against Thompson/Towe/Burleson and Karl/Jones/Kupchak was the way the game was meant to be played. Nowadays if you lack the talent or coaching abilities of the other team you need only out physical them. This is the way sheshitski got to the top, and he still resorts to it when need be. It's what got Villanova the title last year. I just don't think physical play should be allowed to trump better coaching and more talent.

couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[HeelFan58]

They shot well but don't sniff the title without all the zebra help.

If Archinado (or what ever his name was) had been called for every hold , hack , and push that he committed , he would have fouled out by halftime. The refs babied him and put the screws to Brice , Kennedy and Hicks.

 

[gobblercalls]

No it isn't. Great shooting got them the title.

No it isn't. Physical play got them the title. See how easy that works! Villanova shot great but they would have lost that game by double digits if the game had been called according to the rules.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

No it isn't. Physical play got them the title. See how easy that works! Villanova shot great but they would have lost that game by double digits if the game had been called according to the rules.

They shot out of their mind in the final four. That's why they won. Please go back and watch the final 6 minutes when we clamped down the defense and they repeatedly made "are you kidding me?" shots DEEP into the shot clock. They earned it.

 

[Archer2]

TLDR Version - Call only (and all) contact that creates a real advantage for a player/team.

There is a disconnect in the way fouls are called in NCAA basketball. On the one hand, MANY nonsense touch fouls are called even when they have ZERO effect on the game. IE, in no way impede the ability of the fouled player to make their plays, score, or maintain their positions. Some examples - small bumps or touches 20+ feet from the hoop. Usually guards are the recipients of these nonsense foul calls that gain no real advantage for the defender.

Yet where the bigger guys are concerned FAR to much hard fouling, bumping shoving, grabbing, slapping is allowed, and in MANY cases has a direct negative effect on a bigs ability to score, or maintain position. These are fouls that directly gain advantages for the defense when they are not called as they should be.

Then there are fouls not called that gain clear advantages for guards - one huge example is when a ball handler shoves off (gaining a clear advantage) with no call, or sometimes, a foul called on the defender. Barber from NC State almost never took a "guarded" three without clearly shoving the defender away with his off arm. That is a clear foul that gains a clear advantage.

It is so rarely called properly, that the opposing coach (Boeheim?) nearly had a heart attack when his guys were called for it (correctly) multiple times in one of our victories this season. And I understand where his outrage originated. 95% of the time the refs ignore that Crap, and he wondered (rightly so) "why are you calling it repeatedly in THIS game??"

Another example is when a ball handler leaps into a defender. SO many times the guy who fouled (ball handler) is instead rewarded with a trip to the line. A defender MUST be allowed a place on the court!

Charges need to be called. Defense is and should always be an important part of basketball. When one player has established position and an opponent physically moves them from that position it is a FOUL, and should always be called.

In short, any time a physical contact creates a real advantage for a player, the player who initiated the contact should be called for damn foul!

Reality is, Officiating is a ^$%!#$%^&! mess and I do not expect it to get any better, and probably it will get worse. The NBA reached a point where I could no longer stand to watch it due to lousy officiating and at times some HIGHLY suspicious outcomes driven by "reffing".

College ball sadly has been moving in a similar direction, and it gets harder and harder to watch every year.

If I did not so dearly love my Tar Heels I would have dropped it long ago, same as I did with NBA and NFL.

Well stated Soap. I agree completely.

What is so frustrating is the inconsistency involved, touch fouls 20 feet from the basket and pushing/shoving going uncalled in the lane.

And yes, Villanova shot very well and made a lot of tough shots. But they still wouldn't have won if the game had been evenly called, they got a lot of assistance from the zebras.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

I would rather see less contact in the game, not more, but more importantly, consistency. If something is a foul it should be a foul every time. There's nothing more frustrating than seeing the exact same play called differently or not called the next time it happens.