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On the hire and the process...

gary-7

Hall of Famer
Jan 27, 2003
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...and this isn't meant to divide or scold --- it's a suggestion to come together.

I (and I'm sure some others) have been keeping the board at arm's length since Roy's announcement. It just didn't feel right to dive into the inevitable rancor over candidate preferences. Now, I'll readily admit that is in stark contrast to my stance back in 2003 when Matt was fired. Hell, I was neglecting other stuff to be online and checking with contacts (and the board, that even had a different name back then) determined to somehow will Roy to finally come home --- and yes, I even found a livestream link to a Lawrence, KS radio station feed that was covering Roy getting on the UNC plane that I posted updates for. Yep... guilty as charged.

So what was the cause of my dweebdom then? This special thing we know as Carolina Basketball. Other than the passing dookies and trolls, I'm sure all of us here share that affection, even though we have each come to it at our own individual times. I'm sure there are folks here who remember 1957... or like our late, great friend Mike Irby who remember when Dean was still an Assistant... or those who came to it later in the 60s... or (like me) lived and died with the teams of the 70s and 80s. But thing is, even for those who fell in love with Carolina hoops long after Dean retired, we still share an affection for the same legacy. To watch the teams under Gut and Roy was nonetheless watching true Carolina Basketball.

That's what this hire was about --- maintaining that special thing nobody else has. There are some here and elsewhere who have been saying "We're Carolina --- we should be able to get anybody we want". I totally get that. But perhaps another approach to that might be "We're Carolina --- we don't need to make a 'splash' hire, we got this". I think that's what Bubba learned in the process. I would just suggest keeping in mind that the "We're Carolina" mantra wouldn't mean jack if not for Dean E. Smith. Fact is, we as Carolina fans are all spoiled --- no matter when we came to it --- because of UNC carrying on the legacy Dean created.

UNC hired a lovable rogue named Frank McGuire in the 50s to compete with other rogues dominating the sport back then. The bad news is he cheated and got caught, so that Natty woulda been a nice one-off had he not had the sense to hire the young X-and-O wonk from Phog Allen's tree, and then had someone in the administration not decided to promote the Boy Scout on the bench to clean up the shenanigans. So again, it was Dean Smith who invented Carolina Basketball we know today. And y'know, I've seen folks complaining about "grooming" successors. Well of course Dean groomed Roy. Hell, before that he groomed Larry Brown, but Larry was the prodigal who could never keep his nose clean. Then he groomed Eddie Fogler, but Eddie went more his own way as a HC, so yeah, Roy was the true-believer disciple who finally became the heir-apparent. And think about it --- aren't ya glad he DID groom Roy? I know I sure as hell am.

So, did Roy groom Hubert? Of course he did, and again, hopefully we'll be very glad he did. Hubert played for Dean and coached for Roy (with a pretty sporty NBA career in between), but as importantly, he's a true-believer in the system and this thing we call Carolina Basketball. And that's the key to success here. I mean geez... I see some putting down Gut's tenure. Seriously? 2 FFs in 3 seasons (including the last)? Works for me, and it happened because Gut continued just as Dean had. Sure, it's fair to say recruiting slumped a bit, but that was only because everyone knew Gut was short-timing. Hubert will have no such stigma. And had Gut stayed one more season and/or coordinated his exit better for Roy the first time, we never would've endured the Doherty debacle (which happened because he eschewed the system and resources that were bequeathed to him).

Look, I've seen some folks say it was a bogus search, but I really don't think that was the case. For example, for me personally, the only acceptable outsider would've been Few (because of all the "Carolina stuff" he runs), but think about it --- why would he move 3000 miles from a place where they'll end up building a statue and naming the damn court after him? I think it's probably more accurate to say that Bubba learned a lot about Carolina Basketball over the past few days. I do know that among the former players --- from recent guys, to early Dean guys --- they were nearly unanimous that it should be in the family. Many leaned to Hubert, some leaned to Wes, but it was clear to them that those were two excellent options and there was no need to reinvent the wheel. And the reason that former players felt that way had nothing to do with "loyalty" or being "sentimental" --- it was because they uniquely appreciate what they were part of, and how continuing and reinvigorating that is the key to Carolina Basketball continuing to be something special for future generations.

Finally, fact is none of us know the future, but for those fretting about Hubert's hire, I can tell you he is highly regarded as both a coach and person within the program and you'll never have to worry about shenanigans. Everyone has a right to feel how ya feel about the hire, but all I can suggest is to get behind Hubert and the staff (that he will tweak) and the talented cadre of players a year older and wiser, coming back with what I imagine will be a revitalized spring in their steps.

Oh, and Go Heels!
 
...and this isn't meant to divide or scold --- it's a suggestion to come together.

I (and I'm sure some others) have been keeping the board at arm's length since Roy's announcement. It just didn't feel right to dive into the inevitable rancor over candidate preferences. Now, I'll readily admit that is in stark contrast to my stance back in 2003 when Matt was fired. Hell, I was neglecting other stuff to be online and checking with contacts (and the board, that even had a different name back then) determined to somehow will Roy to finally come home --- and yes, I even found a livestream link to a Lawrence, KS radio station feed that was covering Roy getting on the UNC plane that I posted updates for. Yep... guilty as charged.

So what was the cause of my dweebdom then? This special thing we know as Carolina Basketball. Other than the passing dookies and trolls, I'm sure all of us here share that affection, even though we have each come to it at our own individual times. I'm sure there are folks here who remember 1957... or like our late, great friend Mike Irby who remember when Dean was still an Assistant... or those who came to it later in the 60s... or (like me) lived and died with the teams of the 70s and 80s. But thing is, even for those who fell in love with Carolina hoops long after Dean retired, we still share an affection for the same legacy. To watch the teams under Gut and Roy was nonetheless watching true Carolina Basketball.

That's what this hire was about --- maintaining that special thing nobody else has. There are some here and elsewhere who have been saying "We're Carolina --- we should be able to get anybody we want". I totally get that. But perhaps another approach to that might be "We're Carolina --- we don't need to make a 'splash' hire, we got this". I think that's what Bubba learned in the process. I would just suggest keeping in mind that the "We're Carolina" mantra wouldn't mean jack if not for Dean E. Smith. Fact is, we as Carolina fans are all spoiled --- no matter when we came to it --- because of UNC carrying on the legacy Dean created.

UNC hired a lovable rogue named Frank McGuire in the 50s to compete with other rogues dominating the sport back then. The bad news is he cheated and got caught, so that Natty woulda been a nice one-off had he not had the sense to hire the young X-and-O wonk from Phog Allen's tree, and then had someone in the administration not decided to promote the Boy Scout on the bench to clean up the shenanigans. So again, it was Dean Smith who invented Carolina Basketball we know today. And y'know, I've seen folks complaining about "grooming" successors. Well of course Dean groomed Roy. Hell, before that he groomed Larry Brown, but Larry was the prodigal who could never keep his nose clean. Then he groomed Eddie Fogler, but Eddie went more his own way as a HC, so yeah, Roy was the true-believer disciple who finally became the heir-apparent. And think about it --- aren't ya glad he DID groom Roy? I know I sure as hell am.

So, did Roy groom Hubert? Of course he did, and again, hopefully we'll be very glad he did. Hubert played for Dean and coached for Roy (with a pretty sporty NBA career in between), but as importantly, he's a true-believer in the system and this thing we call Carolina Basketball. And that's the key to success here. I mean geez... I see some putting down Gut's tenure. Seriously? 2 FFs in 3 seasons (including the last)? Works for me, and it happened because Gut continued just as Dean had. Sure, it's fair to say recruiting slumped a bit, but that was only because everyone knew Gut was short-timing. Hubert will have no such stigma. And had Gut stayed one more season and/or coordinated his exit better for Roy the first time, we never would've endured the Doherty debacle (which happened because he eschewed the system and resources that were bequeathed to him).

Look, I've seen some folks say it was a bogus search, but I really don't think that was the case. For example, for me personally, the only acceptable outsider would've been Few (because of all the "Carolina stuff" he runs), but think about it --- why would he move 3000 miles from a place where they'll end up building a statue and naming the damn court after him? I think it's probably more accurate to say that Bubba learned a lot about Carolina Basketball over the past few days. I do know that among the former players --- from recent guys, to early Dean guys --- they were nearly unanimous that it should be in the family. Many leaned to Hubert, some leaned to Wes, but it was clear to them that those were two excellent options and there was no need to reinvent the wheel. And the reason that former players felt that way had nothing to do with "loyalty" or being "sentimental" --- it was because they uniquely appreciate what they were part of, and how continuing and reinvigorating that is the key to Carolina Basketball continuing to be something special for future generations.

Finally, fact is none of us know the future, but for those fretting about Hubert's hire, I can tell you he is highly regarded as both a coach and person within the program and you'll never have to worry about shenanigans. Everyone has a right to feel how ya feel about the hire, but all I can suggest is to get behind Hubert and the staff (that he will tweak) and the talented cadre of players a year older and wiser, coming back with what I imagine will be a revitalized spring in their steps.

Well I didnt read all of that so i will say I probably agree with some of it and disagree with some of it.
 
There's going to be some changes made within the staff as well. Sean will be added as an assistant, and there will be other new ones as well. Kendall & Coach Rob will not return most likely, if what I'm hearing is accurate, so I imagine we will know before this week is out who will be on staff with Hubert.
 
interesting--i was assuming kendall would be added if Rob was retiring

based on the podcast from earlier--maybe one of the other candidates will join as an assistant in an associate head coach role
 
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...and this isn't meant to divide or scold --- it's a suggestion to come together.

I (and I'm sure some others) have been keeping the board at arm's length since Roy's announcement. It just didn't feel right to dive into the inevitable rancor over candidate preferences. Now, I'll readily admit that is in stark contrast to my stance back in 2003 when Matt was fired. Hell, I was neglecting other stuff to be online and checking with contacts (and the board, that even had a different name back then) determined to somehow will Roy to finally come home --- and yes, I even found a livestream link to a Lawrence, KS radio station feed that was covering Roy getting on the UNC plane that I posted updates for. Yep... guilty as charged.

So what was the cause of my dweebdom then? This special thing we know as Carolina Basketball. Other than the passing dookies and trolls, I'm sure all of us here share that affection, even though we have each come to it at our own individual times. I'm sure there are folks here who remember 1957... or like our late, great friend Mike Irby who remember when Dean was still an Assistant... or those who came to it later in the 60s... or (like me) lived and died with the teams of the 70s and 80s. But thing is, even for those who fell in love with Carolina hoops long after Dean retired, we still share an affection for the same legacy. To watch the teams under Gut and Roy was nonetheless watching true Carolina Basketball.

That's what this hire was about --- maintaining that special thing nobody else has. There are some here and elsewhere who have been saying "We're Carolina --- we should be able to get anybody we want". I totally get that. But perhaps another approach to that might be "We're Carolina --- we don't need to make a 'splash' hire, we got this". I think that's what Bubba learned in the process. I would just suggest keeping in mind that the "We're Carolina" mantra wouldn't mean jack if not for Dean E. Smith. Fact is, we as Carolina fans are all spoiled --- no matter when we came to it --- because of UNC carrying on the legacy Dean created.

UNC hired a lovable rogue named Frank McGuire in the 50s to compete with other rogues dominating the sport back then. The bad news is he cheated and got caught, so that Natty woulda been a nice one-off had he not had the sense to hire the young X-and-O wonk from Phog Allen's tree, and then had someone in the administration not decided to promote the Boy Scout on the bench to clean up the shenanigans. So again, it was Dean Smith who invented Carolina Basketball we know today. And y'know, I've seen folks complaining about "grooming" successors. Well of course Dean groomed Roy. Hell, before that he groomed Larry Brown, but Larry was the prodigal who could never keep his nose clean. Then he groomed Eddie Fogler, but Eddie went more his own way as a HC, so yeah, Roy was the true-believer disciple who finally became the heir-apparent. And think about it --- aren't ya glad he DID groom Roy? I know I sure as hell am.

So, did Roy groom Hubert? Of course he did, and again, hopefully we'll be very glad he did. Hubert played for Dean and coached for Roy (with a pretty sporty NBA career in between), but as importantly, he's a true-believer in the system and this thing we call Carolina Basketball. And that's the key to success here. I mean geez... I see some putting down Gut's tenure. Seriously? 2 FFs in 3 seasons (including the last)? Works for me, and it happened because Gut continued just as Dean had. Sure, it's fair to say recruiting slumped a bit, but that was only because everyone knew Gut was short-timing. Hubert will have no such stigma. And had Gut stayed one more season and/or coordinated his exit better for Roy the first time, we never would've endured the Doherty debacle (which happened because he eschewed the system and resources that were bequeathed to him).

Look, I've seen some folks say it was a bogus search, but I really don't think that was the case. For example, for me personally, the only acceptable outsider would've been Few (because of all the "Carolina stuff" he runs), but think about it --- why would he move 3000 miles from a place where they'll end up building a statue and naming the damn court after him? I think it's probably more accurate to say that Bubba learned a lot about Carolina Basketball over the past few days. I do know that among the former players --- from recent guys, to early Dean guys --- they were nearly unanimous that it should be in the family. Many leaned to Hubert, some leaned to Wes, but it was clear to them that those were two excellent options and there was no need to reinvent the wheel. And the reason that former players felt that way had nothing to do with "loyalty" or being "sentimental" --- it was because they uniquely appreciate what they were part of, and how continuing and reinvigorating that is the key to Carolina Basketball continuing to be something special for future generations.

Finally, fact is none of us know the future, but for those fretting about Hubert's hire, I can tell you he is highly regarded as both a coach and person within the program and you'll never have to worry about shenanigans. Everyone has a right to feel how ya feel about the hire, but all I can suggest is to get behind Hubert and the staff (that he will tweak) and the talented cadre of players a year older and wiser, coming back with what I imagine will be a revitalized spring in their steps.

Oh, and Go Heels!
Very well written Gary-7
 
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...and this isn't meant to divide or scold --- it's a suggestion to come together.

I (and I'm sure some others) have been keeping the board at arm's length since Roy's announcement. It just didn't feel right to dive into the inevitable rancor over candidate preferences. Now, I'll readily admit that is in stark contrast to my stance back in 2003 when Matt was fired. Hell, I was neglecting other stuff to be online and checking with contacts (and the board, that even had a different name back then) determined to somehow will Roy to finally come home --- and yes, I even found a livestream link to a Lawrence, KS radio station feed that was covering Roy getting on the UNC plane that I posted updates for. Yep... guilty as charged.

So what was the cause of my dweebdom then? This special thing we know as Carolina Basketball. Other than the passing dookies and trolls, I'm sure all of us here share that affection, even though we have each come to it at our own individual times. I'm sure there are folks here who remember 1957... or like our late, great friend Mike Irby who remember when Dean was still an Assistant... or those who came to it later in the 60s... or (like me) lived and died with the teams of the 70s and 80s. But thing is, even for those who fell in love with Carolina hoops long after Dean retired, we still share an affection for the same legacy. To watch the teams under Gut and Roy was nonetheless watching true Carolina Basketball.

That's what this hire was about --- maintaining that special thing nobody else has. There are some here and elsewhere who have been saying "We're Carolina --- we should be able to get anybody we want". I totally get that. But perhaps another approach to that might be "We're Carolina --- we don't need to make a 'splash' hire, we got this". I think that's what Bubba learned in the process. I would just suggest keeping in mind that the "We're Carolina" mantra wouldn't mean jack if not for Dean E. Smith. Fact is, we as Carolina fans are all spoiled --- no matter when we came to it --- because of UNC carrying on the legacy Dean created.

UNC hired a lovable rogue named Frank McGuire in the 50s to compete with other rogues dominating the sport back then. The bad news is he cheated and got caught, so that Natty woulda been a nice one-off had he not had the sense to hire the young X-and-O wonk from Phog Allen's tree, and then had someone in the administration not decided to promote the Boy Scout on the bench to clean up the shenanigans. So again, it was Dean Smith who invented Carolina Basketball we know today. And y'know, I've seen folks complaining about "grooming" successors. Well of course Dean groomed Roy. Hell, before that he groomed Larry Brown, but Larry was the prodigal who could never keep his nose clean. Then he groomed Eddie Fogler, but Eddie went more his own way as a HC, so yeah, Roy was the true-believer disciple who finally became the heir-apparent. And think about it --- aren't ya glad he DID groom Roy? I know I sure as hell am.

So, did Roy groom Hubert? Of course he did, and again, hopefully we'll be very glad he did. Hubert played for Dean and coached for Roy (with a pretty sporty NBA career in between), but as importantly, he's a true-believer in the system and this thing we call Carolina Basketball. And that's the key to success here. I mean geez... I see some putting down Gut's tenure. Seriously? 2 FFs in 3 seasons (including the last)? Works for me, and it happened because Gut continued just as Dean had. Sure, it's fair to say recruiting slumped a bit, but that was only because everyone knew Gut was short-timing. Hubert will have no such stigma. And had Gut stayed one more season and/or coordinated his exit better for Roy the first time, we never would've endured the Doherty debacle (which happened because he eschewed the system and resources that were bequeathed to him).

Look, I've seen some folks say it was a bogus search, but I really don't think that was the case. For example, for me personally, the only acceptable outsider would've been Few (because of all the "Carolina stuff" he runs), but think about it --- why would he move 3000 miles from a place where they'll end up building a statue and naming the damn court after him? I think it's probably more accurate to say that Bubba learned a lot about Carolina Basketball over the past few days. I do know that among the former players --- from recent guys, to early Dean guys --- they were nearly unanimous that it should be in the family. Many leaned to Hubert, some leaned to Wes, but it was clear to them that those were two excellent options and there was no need to reinvent the wheel. And the reason that former players felt that way had nothing to do with "loyalty" or being "sentimental" --- it was because they uniquely appreciate what they were part of, and how continuing and reinvigorating that is the key to Carolina Basketball continuing to be something special for future generations.

Finally, fact is none of us know the future, but for those fretting about Hubert's hire, I can tell you he is highly regarded as both a coach and person within the program and you'll never have to worry about shenanigans. Everyone has a right to feel how ya feel about the hire, but all I can suggest is to get behind Hubert and the staff (that he will tweak) and the talented cadre of players a year older and wiser, coming back with what I imagine will be a revitalized spring in their steps.

Oh, and Go Heels!
I believe it is making a decision to appreciate what is before you, gaining an understanding of what your values are, and how that translates into the bigger scheme. I’ve followed UNC for 40+ years, and have enhanced my perspective along the way. It is not only about athletics, it goes way beyond that. I live less than 10 minutes from campus, and often visit: there’s something very special about that place.

It’s bigger than the game...
 
Good one again G7.👍
This why you are one of only about 3 or 4 people on this site that post something truly worth reading.
 
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There's going to be some changes made within the staff as well. Sean will be added as an assistant, and there will be other new ones as well. Kendall & Coach Rob will not return most likely, if what I'm hearing is accurate, so I imagine we will know before this week is out who will be on staff with Hubert.
I really, really hate hearing this.😩
I hoped Coach Rob would spend a year or 2 helping HD get settled in.
And I thought Kendall had a really bright future coaching our PGs and of course recruiting.
 
Disagree on Guthridge. Rode Dean's recruits. Completely depleted UNCs rosters then left, leaving Doherty a mess to try and pick up.

Completely depleted?
Joseph Forte was recruited by and played an all-time great freshman season under Gut.
Matt had 6 McD All Americans on his roster as a first year coach. He just couldn’t get his team to buy in to what he wanted...and failed. On top of that, Duke was loaded and won a championship.
RW had a very talented, underperforming roster handed to him. He turned that around quickly.
 
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Really wish Marshall would have been added to staff but adding May to coach the post players is big time and young face for recruiting. Adding Rice or Lebo as associate HC makes sense but I hope it's only one and not both added. I would prefer they add another young guy to the staff UNC has a few who are coaching now Jackie Manuel, Melvin Scott, Bobby Frasor. My opinion doesn't matter but hope David Noel gets a chance at it think he would do extremely well coaching and recruiting.
 
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Completely depleted?
Joseph Forte was recruited by and played an all-time great freshman season under Gut.
Matt had 6 McD All Americans on his roster as a first year coach. He just couldn’t get his team to buy in to what he wanted...and failed. On top of that, Duke was loaded and won a championship.
RW had a very talented, underperforming roster handed to him. He turned that around quickly.
Yes. Completely depleted. Doherty recruited us a championship that unfortunately he wasn't able to stick round long enough to reap.
 
I have intentionally not posted for a few weeks. Wiscy game pissed me off and I didn't want to see all the crap being posted afterwards. Ultimately I trust Roy to do what is best for the program he inherited but my concern is that he is allowing his loyalty to overshadow all else. I hope Hubert becomes like Roy in moving up to big chair and the program continues to run. My fear is that Hubert is the coaching version of some of Roy's upperclassmen taking minutes away from more talented freshman.

Unfortunately the college basketball world is changing and not in a way that I prefer. It's very likely that Hubert will be the last UNC basketball coach with a direct tie to Coach Smith, and that is depressing to me. I keep thinking back to Doherty, all the former players and fans wanted to keep it in the family, the biggest objection (not publicly but inside) when Roy declined the first time was from Coach Smith.

I will be supporting UNC when next season rolls around but it is going to be a very different program moving forward, and that's not a knock on Hubert but just overall observation. The best players will not be there long enough to develop that attraction to the university and program. As far as Hubert I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is ready. His story is a good one, essentially only offered a scholly because of his uncle but his work ethic and Coach Smith turned him into an NBA talent.

UNC's name will get Hubert in the door for any recruit, I hope that he proves he can close the deal. I think he needs to add an outsider to the staff just to offer a different perspective, similar to Mack having Gaudio or Gottfried having Lutz on staff. Ideally it would be a former HC whose teams were known for defense and giving 100% every possession. Outside of his NBA career Hubert has essentially been in one system of basketball and I think he needs to have someone who can offer alternatives. I'm not saying UNC basketball needs an overhaul, but a new set of plugs can make it run better.
 
Really wish Marshall would have been added to staff but adding May to coach the post players is big time and young face for recruiting. Adding Rice or Lebo as associate HC makes sense but I hope it's only one and not both added. I would prefer they add another young guy to the staff UNC has a few who are coaching now Jackie Manuel, Melvin Scott, Bobby Frasor. My opinion doesn't matter but hope David Noel gets a chance at it think he would do extremely well coaching and recruiting.

I wonder how much his dad's tweets had to do with him not getting the promotion to a bench coach?

On another note, why do you wish he would have been promoted? We just hired a coach with zero HC experience and there are talks of coach Rob being out or only HC experience on the bench. We need experience on the bench, not former players!
 
Most assistants coaches are former players and from what it looks like King Rice and Jeff Lebo are also being considered for spots which I assume one would take Steve spot and one is a HC and the other was a HC for many years. So that's your experience right there. I rather have former younger players on the bench also because that helps with recruiting and players being able to relate more to people close to their age. I also named a few other young guys who have coaching experience but Marshall is a likeable young guy who had success at UNC played in NBA and I may be wrong but he use to be the host for recruits when he was in school. I personally prefer David Noel I seen his energy and passion from watching him coach AAU and from the times I seen him on podcast and I know a few people who know him who have mentioned the same thing.
 
Yes. Completely depleted. Doherty recruited us a championship that unfortunately he wasn't able to stick round long enough to reap.
I don't believe that team would ever have won a championship under Doherty. What Roy "cleaned up" a much as anything were dissention and bad attitudes.
 
The guys on that team were all transferring if Doh was still there in 2003-04.
Yep. And Roy had plenty of comments that first year about "wanting to jump out of the plane" on trips back after the loss. I don't know about Sean May, but I am guessing maybe Felton and no doubt McCants had attitude issues, and thought they were running the show, should do things their way.... the whole head shave thing....etc.
 
Great write up G!

I agree that he really needs to get a veteran HC to join him on the bench along with a youngish, pro-experienced former player who can relate to the youngsters! (If he could get someone similar to Martelli, that would be perfect)
 
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Gary I agree with almost everything you said here. The one thing I would point out, and that you know already for sure, is just how varied that affection for Carolina basketball is. I think the real divide is between those who love it differently than every other team we may be a fan of and those who love it the same as other teams. As you point out it really all comes from Coach Smith. We love the basketball, the style and the innovation but it’s mostly about people. One day we won’t have the option of someone directly tied to him but that day isn’t here.

I think those on the other side of this coin feel about it the same way Kentucky fans probably feel about their team or dook fans (and how they felt about State prior to 1990). Hell they’re on here saying exactly the same thing as dook fans are about Hubert on my social media. And to me they don’t get it any more than those rival’s fans. I don’t blame them but I also know they’re the kind of people who talked junk about both HOF coaches when they were here. They freely admit that it’s all about wins. I admit that it would suck to not have the wins, but winning without the family side wouldn’t matter all that much to me.
 
Davis is not the sexy pick or the exciting pick, but he is the safe consistent pick. He probably keeps his current players and has the ability to get some transfers to help the roster. I enjoyed the thought of Wes Miller, but I wondered if he would have had a number of additional transfers from the team to deal with. Davis is young enough that he could be a long term solution, which would be great. He just needs to have a little bit of success early to win over the hold out's and the I told you so's. I really don't know much about Davis, but if Roy wanted him I will give him a real chance.
 
Completely depleted?
Joseph Forte was recruited by and played an all-time great freshman season under Gut.
Matt had 6 McD All Americans on his roster as a first year coach. He just couldn’t get his team to buy in to what he wanted...and failed. On top of that, Duke was loaded and won a championship.
RW had a very talented, underperforming roster handed to him. He turned that around quickly.
Gut's last class (2000) is a contender for worst UNC class:
Brian Morrison
Fingleton
Adam Boon
All three transferred out eventually.

Gut's 2nd class (1999), needed more than one ACC caliber player:
Forte
Will Johnson
Jon Holmes
(Should walk-on Peppers count here, given that Gut considered him a lucky god-send?)

Gut's First (1998) - a great recruiting class that didn't live up to bill:
Jason Capel
Kris Lang
Orlando Melendez
Ronald Curry

The above classes were the soph/jr/sr players on the dreaded 8-20 team which lost so many streaks. Losing Forte, Curry, and Peppers early hurt, and maybe Doherty was already self-inficting, but the talent on that team was bad. Counting on Curry/Peppers to be contributors wasn't a good bet.
 
djones said it "safe pick", and gary said it "no shenanigans". Hubert is a class act and will not embarrass the university. His players love him for his caring nature. I wish him the best of luck at UNC. If he is a total failure, then in three or four years we'll be looking for another coach. Go Heels !!!
 
Once the dust settles, which will be soon, the whole fan base will be Hubert’s biggest cheerleaders. Think he will be good w/ the X’s and O’s, but can he get the best Jimmy’s and Joe’s? That’s my only real question.
 
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Once the dust settles, which will be soon, the whole fan base will be Hubert’s biggest cheerleaders. Think he will be good w/ the X’s and O’s, but can he get the best Jimmy’s and Joe’s? That’s my only real question.
I don't think he'll have a problem getting players. He's at UNC, he's african-american and he has NBA pedigree.

If he's a good X's and O's coach, we've found our guy for the next 15+ years.

Most of the fanbase will get behind him. It's an emotional time right now because everything has happened in a flash.

I'm going to be patient with him. He deserves a chance at success. I think Roy's shadow will help him. Let's be honest, since he's African American, some people will not be patient with him and he'll be treated unfairly just because of his skin color. But Roy probably gives him some security.

I can't say I'm not concerned going forward, but that's mainly because I just have no freaking clue if he can coach at this level or not, lol. But I'm 100% behind him and I hope he genuinely gets to make this program his. There are large shadows around him constantly. I hope he has the courage and confidence to do what he thinks is right for the program.
 
Completely depleted?
Joseph Forte was recruited by and played an all-time great freshman season under Gut.
Matt had 6 McD All Americans on his roster as a first year coach. He just couldn’t get his team to buy in to what he wanted...and failed. On top of that, Duke was loaded and won a championship.
RW had a very talented, underperforming roster handed to him. He turned that around quickly.
Gut failed to adequately fill the most important position on the floor PG. Bringing in Curry instead of going all in on Jay Williams was a huge mistake that even us novice recruiting followers though that was not a good idea. Curry was never committed to basketball and him going full time to Football doomed us during the 8-20 season. Guthridge was a fine bench coach and leader of the program, but there is no denying the recruiting set us back a few years.
 
Completely depleted?
Joseph Forte was recruited by and played an all-time great freshman season under Gut.
Matt had 6 McD All Americans on his roster as a first year coach. He just couldn’t get his team to buy in to what he wanted...and failed. On top of that, Duke was loaded and won a championship.
RW had a very talented, underperforming roster handed to him. He turned that around quickly.
BINGO.
 
I don't think he'll have a problem getting players. He's at UNC, he's african-american and he has NBA pedigree.

If he's a good X's and O's coach, we've found our guy for the next 15+ years.

Most of the fanbase will get behind him. It's an emotional time right now because everything has happened in a flash.

I'm going to be patient with him. He deserves a chance at success. I think Roy's shadow will help him. Let's be honest, since he's African American, some people will not be patient with him and he'll be treated unfairly just because of his skin color. But Roy probably gives him some security.

I can't say I'm not concerned going forward, but that's mainly because I just have no freaking clue if he can coach at this level or not, lol. But I'm 100% behind him and I hope he genuinely gets to make this program his. There are large shadows around him constantly. I hope he has the courage and confidence to do what he thinks is right for the program.

If that is to be accepted, we must also be honest since he is AA, some people will be more than patient with him and will use it as a reason NOT to terminate him.
 
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Gut failed to adequately fill the most important position on the floor PG. Bringing in Curry instead of going all in on Jay Williams was a huge mistake that even us novice recruiting followers though that was not a good idea. Curry was never committed to basketball and him going full time to Football doomed us during the 8-20 season. Guthridge was a fine bench coach and leader of the program, but there is no denying the recruiting set us back a few years.
That is very true about Curry and man, it really hurt watching Williams light it up at dook. Thing is, Curry was the "splash" recruit of that class but Williams had the substance.

But those giving Matt a pass due to recruiting are missing the forest for the trees methinks. He lost out on player after player from the outset and he honestly had little to do with the savior class. Ray and McCants were UNC regardless and May came because of his dad's relationship with Phil Ford.
 
That is very true about Curry and man, it really hurt watching Williams light it up at dook. Thing is, Curry was the "splash" recruit of that class but Williams had the substance.

But those giving Matt a pass due to recruiting are missing the forest for the trees methinks. He lost out on player after player from the outset and he honestly had little to do with the savior class. Ray and McCants were UNC regardless and May came because of his dad's relationship with Phil Ford.
Interesting. Good to know. I always wondered how Matt was able to bring in that monster class, core of one of the top 5 Heels teams ever. Pretty sure all three walk if Doh were there another year.

He just rubbed those talents the wrong way, was borderline abusive to them. Same to the basketball office staff, boosters, donors, too. Seems just wired with an awkward, introvert, non-relational personality, and couldn't really deliver a tough message without coming across as a mean heartless ahole. Wasn't willing or able to do all the work to build the trust / relationships with the players, staff, basketball office, donors, fans.

You can't really change that about your personality, very easily anyway
 
That is very true about Curry and man, it really hurt watching Williams light it up at dook. Thing is, Curry was the "splash" recruit of that class but Williams had the substance.

But those giving Matt a pass due to recruiting are missing the forest for the trees methinks. He lost out on player after player from the outset and he honestly had little to do with the savior class. Ray and McCants were UNC regardless and May came because of his dad's relationship with Phil Ford.
Stuff I read above was less about giving Matt a pass and more about saying Gut was a heaven/hell combo of good coaching but bad recruiting.
That 2001 team was going to have a bad roster even if Gut had stayed on one more yr unless he could've convinced Forte to not go pro (he landed 1st round). And based on track, it's possible that the 2001 wouldn't have had glue guys like Jawad, Melvin, Jackie.
 
Stuff I read above was less about giving Matt a pass and more about saying Gut was a heaven/hell combo of good coaching but bad recruiting.
That 2001 team was going to have a bad roster even if Gut had stayed on one more yr unless he could've convinced Forte to not go pro (he landed 1st round). And based on track, it's possible that the 2001 wouldn't have had glue guys like Jawad, Melvin, Jackie.
Well yeah, like I said in the OP, everyone knew Gut was short-timing and that was used in negative recruiting.
 
I don't think he'll have a problem getting players. He's at UNC, he's african-american and he has NBA pedigree.

If he's a good X's and O's coach, we've found our guy for the next 15+ years.

Most of the fanbase will get behind him. It's an emotional time right now because everything has happened in a flash.

I'm going to be patient with him. He deserves a chance at success. I think Roy's shadow will help him. Let's be honest, since he's African American, some people will not be patient with him and he'll be treated unfairly just because of his skin color. But Roy probably gives him some security.

I can't say I'm not concerned going forward, but that's mainly because I just have no freaking clue if he can coach at this level or not, lol. But I'm 100% behind him and I hope he genuinely gets to make this program his. There are large shadows around him constantly. I hope he has the courage and confidence to do what he thinks is right for the program.

WRONG!!!!

If he gets a short rope it is due to the struggle the last few years and coinciding worry of slipping down the slope of a school like Indiana. Couple that with the fact that Hubert was here during the slip the last few years and has no head coaching experience.

Take the snowflake, cancel culture, racist crap somewhere else. True fans could care less about anything other than if Hubert Davis can represent UNC well and be in the conversation of having chance to win a championship.

I believe he has all the tools but lack of head coaching is the wild card. His press conference leads me to believe that he will be successful on recruiting. I believe he and Roy have a sincerity about UNC that cannot be faked, that makes you want to be part of it.
 
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...and this isn't meant to divide or scold --- it's a suggestion to come together.

I (and I'm sure some others) have been keeping the board at arm's length since Roy's announcement. It just didn't feel right to dive into the inevitable rancor over candidate preferences. Now, I'll readily admit that is in stark contrast to my stance back in 2003 when Matt was fired. Hell, I was neglecting other stuff to be online and checking with contacts (and the board, that even had a different name back then) determined to somehow will Roy to finally come home --- and yes, I even found a livestream link to a Lawrence, KS radio station feed that was covering Roy getting on the UNC plane that I posted updates for. Yep... guilty as charged.

So what was the cause of my dweebdom then? This special thing we know as Carolina Basketball. Other than the passing dookies and trolls, I'm sure all of us here share that affection, even though we have each come to it at our own individual times. I'm sure there are folks here who remember 1957... or like our late, great friend Mike Irby who remember when Dean was still an Assistant... or those who came to it later in the 60s... or (like me) lived and died with the teams of the 70s and 80s. But thing is, even for those who fell in love with Carolina hoops long after Dean retired, we still share an affection for the same legacy. To watch the teams under Gut and Roy was nonetheless watching true Carolina Basketball.

That's what this hire was about --- maintaining that special thing nobody else has. There are some here and elsewhere who have been saying "We're Carolina --- we should be able to get anybody we want". I totally get that. But perhaps another approach to that might be "We're Carolina --- we don't need to make a 'splash' hire, we got this". I think that's what Bubba learned in the process. I would just suggest keeping in mind that the "We're Carolina" mantra wouldn't mean jack if not for Dean E. Smith. Fact is, we as Carolina fans are all spoiled --- no matter when we came to it --- because of UNC carrying on the legacy Dean created.

UNC hired a lovable rogue named Frank McGuire in the 50s to compete with other rogues dominating the sport back then. The bad news is he cheated and got caught, so that Natty woulda been a nice one-off had he not had the sense to hire the young X-and-O wonk from Phog Allen's tree, and then had someone in the administration not decided to promote the Boy Scout on the bench to clean up the shenanigans. So again, it was Dean Smith who invented Carolina Basketball we know today. And y'know, I've seen folks complaining about "grooming" successors. Well of course Dean groomed Roy. Hell, before that he groomed Larry Brown, but Larry was the prodigal who could never keep his nose clean. Then he groomed Eddie Fogler, but Eddie went more his own way as a HC, so yeah, Roy was the true-believer disciple who finally became the heir-apparent. And think about it --- aren't ya glad he DID groom Roy? I know I sure as hell am.

So, did Roy groom Hubert? Of course he did, and again, hopefully we'll be very glad he did. Hubert played for Dean and coached for Roy (with a pretty sporty NBA career in between), but as importantly, he's a true-believer in the system and this thing we call Carolina Basketball. And that's the key to success here. I mean geez... I see some putting down Gut's tenure. Seriously? 2 FFs in 3 seasons (including the last)? Works for me, and it happened because Gut continued just as Dean had. Sure, it's fair to say recruiting slumped a bit, but that was only because everyone knew Gut was short-timing. Hubert will have no such stigma. And had Gut stayed one more season and/or coordinated his exit better for Roy the first time, we never would've endured the Doherty debacle (which happened because he eschewed the system and resources that were bequeathed to him).

Look, I've seen some folks say it was a bogus search, but I really don't think that was the case. For example, for me personally, the only acceptable outsider would've been Few (because of all the "Carolina stuff" he runs), but think about it --- why would he move 3000 miles from a place where they'll end up building a statue and naming the damn court after him? I think it's probably more accurate to say that Bubba learned a lot about Carolina Basketball over the past few days. I do know that among the former players --- from recent guys, to early Dean guys --- they were nearly unanimous that it should be in the family. Many leaned to Hubert, some leaned to Wes, but it was clear to them that those were two excellent options and there was no need to reinvent the wheel. And the reason that former players felt that way had nothing to do with "loyalty" or being "sentimental" --- it was because they uniquely appreciate what they were part of, and how continuing and reinvigorating that is the key to Carolina Basketball continuing to be something special for future generations.

Finally, fact is none of us know the future, but for those fretting about Hubert's hire, I can tell you he is highly regarded as both a coach and person within the program and you'll never have to worry about shenanigans. Everyone has a right to feel how ya feel about the hire, but all I can suggest is to get behind Hubert and the staff (that he will tweak) and the talented cadre of players a year older and wiser, coming back with what I imagine will be a revitalized spring in their steps.

Oh, and Go Heels!

Great piece Gary. I wish I would have taken your advice and held off commenting on the coaching change. Over on the Premium side, the folks that didn't have Hubert as their first choice outnumbered me about 25-1. I held my ground and I had some choice words with several posters.

There was one poster that said after the announcement that he hope that Hubert fails.

You had another guy that said he had nickname for Hubert and he would refer to him with that nickname when talking about him on the board in the future.

The most common comment was that "Hubert is too nice". Another, "we need a coach with head coaching experience" There is much more.

After that press conference today, many folks have a different perception on Hubert. It has been humerous seeing folks backtrack.

I'm moving on, but there were several moments in the presser that impressed me, here are 3 of them:

1. The time when his new coach in the NBA (Nelson) called him into his office and said "You will not start on this team going forward". Hubert said, why? Nelson said "because you can only shoot, I need someone to also play defense, dribble, etc." Hubert said he worked his butt off and became the starter at point guard.

2. Another one was when he told Roy to leave his office untouched and he would keep his current office.

3. Another one when he said Kessler is a Tar Heel and he will try to get him back and will call him back again today. Not a grudge cell in the man's body.

What a proud day to be a Tar Heel fan!

This video from Roy says it all.

 
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Great piece Gary. I wish I would have taken your advice and held off commenting on the coaching change. Over on the Premium side, the folks that didn't have Hubert as their first choice outnumbered me about 25-1. I held my ground and I had some choice words with several posters.

There was one poster that said after the announcement that he hope that Hubert fails.

You had another guy that said he had nickname for Hubert and he would refer to him with that nickname when talking about him on the board in the future.

The most common comment was that "Hubert is too nice". Another, "we need a coach with head coaching experience" There is much more.

After that press conference today, many folks have a different perception on Hubert. It has been humerous seeing folks backtrack.

I'm moving on, but there were several moments in the presser that impressed me, here are 3 of them:

1. The time when his new coach in the NBA (Nelson) called him into his office and said "You will not start on this team going forward". Hubert said, why? Nelson said "because you can only shoot, I need someone to also play defense, dribble, etc." Hubert said he worked his butt off and became the starter at point guard.

2. Another one was when he told Roy to leave his office untouched and he would keep his current office.

3. Another one when he said Kessler is a Tar Heel and he will try to get him back and will call him back again today. Not a grudge cell in the man's body.

What a proud day to be a Tar Heel fan!

This video from Roy says it all.

giphy.gif
 
That is very true about Curry and man, it really hurt watching Williams light it up at dook. Thing is, Curry was the "splash" recruit of that class but Williams had the substance.

But those giving Matt a pass due to recruiting are missing the forest for the trees methinks. He lost out on player after player from the outset and he honestly had little to do with the savior class. Ray and McCants were UNC regardless and May came because of his dad's relationship with Phil Ford.
Agreed, I think Doherty tried to get every 6'10" - 7'1" player in the world to commit and got Damian Grant😏
 
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Watching the press conference today introducing Hubert makes me think it will be hard for parents of his recruiting targets not to be won over in a very short time. Who would not want Hubert to take care of his kid during his college days?
 
Watching the press conference today introducing Hubert makes me think it will be hard for parents of his recruiting targets not to be won over in a very short time. Who would not want Hubert to take care of his kid during his college days?
That part of Hubert and him as a man and a leader of men is of no concern to me, it's is coach ability or lack of experience that is of concern but let's just see how it goes. He can't be any worse than we have been the last 2 seasons!
 
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