Paying for college

[Grayhead]

Is it better for the parent to foot the bill?
Is it better for the student to be responsible for the cost?

Give me some examples both ways. Include your experiences as well. I'm not asking this to be a cheap scape. I'll bounce my concerns once I get a feel for the boards stance.

I did not go to college. I regret it. I've done well for myself, but i see i could be better at running my business with some level of education after high school. Money and motivation were major factors for me. With parents that basically said just make sure you pass high school and you will get a trade involved in building house, I was at a disadvantage. Not really their fault, seeing how we all grew up in poverty. My dad wanted me to work with less pay and have a job with benefits. Said that outweighed having more money. Never any talk of me going to college. Very few from my class went. Back then, only those who had money, or managed a full ride scholarship went.

 

[Terror Beard]

My parents paid for some of college and I paid for some of it. But no loans. My mom and dad took money from their retirement and/or second mortgage. Then when I failed out, I worked and saved up enough to put myself through to the finish. I had to piece my degree together. When it was all said and done, I received credits from 7 different schools.

What you’re asking is a great question and one I’ve thought about a lot. Is it better to pay for my kids’ college so they’re not saddled with debt immediately or is it better for them to learn that real world lesson early on? I don’t know the better route. I think a combination of the two is probably best. But I know with me putting my kids through private school (oldest kid will have spent 9 years in private and younger son, 12 years) it's hurt my ability to pay as much for college as I had initially planned. But that’s life. If they remained in public school, who knows what I’d end up having to pay - bail? Lawyer fees? Drug counseling? Medical bills?

But all of that assumes my kids go to college. I’m not sure they will. They might elect to learn a trade instead and I’m totally behind that. If they do elect to go the college route, I may tell them that they have to attend 2 years at local CC if I’m paying for it.

 

[UNC '92]

Definitely a combination of the two (I pay some, he gets loans or works), if it can be financially handled, is the best route in my mind. I don't want my son saddled with too much debt for his future. I do want my son to build credit for himself and understand that money isn't free.

His situation is made better since he has two scholarships covering tuition and books. We are lucky enough that financially we could swing it either way. The bottom line is I want him concentrating on his studies and career first and am seeking to ensure I don't distract him by heaping a financial burden on him for later life.

 

[nctransplant]

Definitely a combination of the two (I pay some, he gets loans or works), if it can be financially handled, is the best route in my mind. I don't want my son saddled with too much debt for his future. I do want my son to build credit for himself and understand that money isn't free.

His situation is made better since he has two scholarships covering tuition and books. We are lucky enough that financially we could swing it either way. The bottom line is I want him concentrating on his studies and career first and am seeking to ensure I don't distract him by heaping a financial burden on him for later life.

We did the same.

 

[HookUNC75]

We told our 2 sons that we would pay for 4 years tuition, fees and housing. Any extra spending money they paid for through summer jobs and working as lab assistants for the university. The older son went on and got his Phd and paid for it by teaching undergrad classes and labs. He did get a couple small student loans that he has pretty much paid off. We were lucky with the younger son as he was awarded an academic scholarship that paid for about 50% of his undergrad. He decided that 4 years was enough for him so he went to work.

 

[TBHeel]

Is it better for the parent to foot the bill?
Is it better for the student to be responsible for the cost?

Give me some examples both ways. Include your experiences as well. I'm not asking this to be a cheap scape. I'll bounce my concerns once I get a feel for the boards stance.

I did not go to college. I regret it. I've done well for myself, but i see i could be better at running my business with some level of education after high school. Money and motivation were major factors for me. With parents that basically said just make sure you pass high school and you will get a trade involved in building house, I was at a disadvantage. Not really their fault, seeing how we all grew up in poverty. My dad wanted me to work with less pay and have a job with benefits. Said that outweighed having more money. Never any talk of me going to college. Very few from my class went. Back then, only those who had money, or managed a full ride scholarship went.

It is my hope that my kids turn out to be smart enough to earn a scholarship or so dumb they can't get in. That group in the middle is what kills you.

 

[dadika13]

I'm with everyone here on the split...

I got some scholarship $, my parents paid some, and I had some small student loans when I graduated.

Student loans, in small amounts, are not a bad thing. It taught me at 23 how much owing money to someone sucks and how shitty monthly payments are (they were only about $100 a month for 2 years). It's helped me avoid some pitfalls that some of my friends fell into with loans, CC bills, etc. etc.

 

[ticket2ride04]

I got a mix like everyone else. Worked all through college.

I’ve got a young daughter. When she’s a little older, I’m gonna find out what she really wants more than anything. Horse, nice car, European vacation and promise to give it to her if she receives substantial college scholarships.

If she gets through college and lands a good job, I will help her further.

If she’s a fvck up, she’s gonna be mostly on her own.

 

[Grayhead]

So my last kid is in early college high school. Takes 5 years. Once finished, she will have a 2 year associate's degree. It's a community college, so they made us aware that not every college in the US would give credit for this program. Most schools in NC will. She wants to be a vet as of now. I'm thinking of helping her get to the 4 year degree and her handle what ever years are beyond that.

I'm glad the general consensus is split it up. Scholarships would be great as well

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I never had a choice. My family was poor and my parents split up when I was 19. There was no chance anyone but me was going to be on the hook. They would have paid for it if they could, they just couldn't swing it financially.

 

[Grayhead]

The other side to this is I've had classmates go to college and couldn't find work with their degrees. Our guideance counselors were pitiful at helping students plan for their future. That would be a great fear I would have. We have very little in our area outside of trades revolving around growth. Doctors, lawyers, and nurses are as common as dollar stores.

 

[ticket2ride04]

The other side to this is I've had classmates go to college and couldn't find work with their degrees. Our guideance counselors were pitiful at helping students plan for their future. That would be a great fear I would have. We have very little in our area outside of trades revolving around growth. Doctors, lawyers, and nurses are as common as dollar stores.

People need to move to where the jobs are. Not everyone gets to live where they grew up. At least not without some sacrifice. I’d love to be back in N.C. but I can’t make it work at this time.

 

[tarheel0910]

The other side to this is I've had classmates go to college and couldn't find work with their degrees. Our guideance counselors were pitiful at helping students plan for their future. That would be a great fear I would have. We have very little in our area outside of trades revolving around growth. Doctors, lawyers, and nurses are as common as dollar stores.

Actually the healthcare industry has a shortage and it's one of the fastest growing industries. Anything to do with IT is also a safe bet. The problem with guidance counselors today is they push people to college because that's what everyone "should" do. It's not PC to tell a kid that they aren't college material or that there might be better options for a specific kid.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

The other side to this is I've had classmates go to college and couldn't find work with their degrees. Our guideance counselors were pitiful at helping students plan for their future. That would be a great fear I would have. We have very little in our area outside of trades revolving around growth. Doctors, lawyers, and nurses are as common as dollar stores.

High school is essentially a propaganda arm for the universities and the banks. They tell all these kids that they can't amount to anything if they don't go to college, so you have a bunch of these young naive kids taking out loans to get useless degrees and then have a hard time paying back the loan. The university and banks make a killing at the expense of the student. The only reason I went back is that I found a degree that I liked and with which I could make money. If I could go back to the end of high school, I probably would have become an electrician or a welder.

 

[Terror Beard]

High school is essentially a propaganda arm for the universities and the banks. They tell all these kids that they can't amount to anything if they don't go to college, so you have a bunch of these young naive kids taking out loans to get useless degrees and then have a hard time paying back the loan. The university and banks make a killing at the expense of the student. The only reason I went back is that I found a degree that I liked and with which I could make money. If I could go back to the end of high school, I probably would have become an electrician or a welder.

Great poast. I agree with it all.

 

[ticket2ride04]

High school is essentially a propaganda arm for the universities and the banks. They tell all these kids that they can't amount to anything if they don't go to college, so you have a bunch of these young naive kids taking out loans to get useless degrees and then have a hard time paying back the loan. The university and banks make a killing at the expense of the student. The only reason I went back is that I found a degree that I liked and with which I could make money. If I could go back to the end of high school, I probably would have become an electrician or a welder.

Banks do very little student loans.

Baby boomers told their kids they had to go to college no matter what.

 

[Terror Beard]

Baby boomers told their kids they had to go to college no matter what.

We grew up in the era of everyone "needing" to go to college. It's a shame too because had I chosen a trade, most likely I'd be 20+ years in and making more than I do as the Director of a NPO. But of course I couldn't use the "I'm better than you" argument and I really like that. So like you said, there's sacrifice.

 

[Raising Heel]

If they do elect to go the college route, I may tell them that they have to attend 2 years at local CC if I’m paying for it.

I don't have anything to add to this thread, but I do want to call out this point. It's great advice.

My undergrad was a mixture of scholarships, me working to pay living expenses, and parents paying the balance of my tuition*. When I went back to grad school nine years later, I was completely on my own. Since my graduate degree was in accounting and my undergrad was in liberal arts, I had a lot of prerequisites to complete. I did as many of them as possible at the local community college with my employer footing much of the modest bill for tuition. That ended up saving me a lot of money and I felt like the quality of the education made it a great value.

I was poor as dirt when I started grad school so all of my tuition and books were paid via student loans. It took a long time to pay off, but the degree landed me jobs that made the payments very manageable.



* I was at UNC from 1990-1994. Tuition was roughly $500 a semester back then. I completed my entire undergraduate degree for less than $5,000 which is crazy to even think about now. My books probably cost half again as much.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Banks do very little student loans.

Baby boomers told their kids they had to go to college no matter what.

Someone is making money off of them. It isn't like they're interest-free.

 

[dadika13]

High school is essentially a propaganda arm for the universities and the banks. They tell all these kids that they can't amount to anything if they don't go to college, so you have a bunch of these young naive kids taking out loans to get useless degrees and then have a hard time paying back the loan. The university and banks make a killing at the expense of the student. The only reason I went back is that I found a degree that I liked and with which I could make money. If I could go back to the end of high school, I probably would have become an electrician or a welder.

So we'd have an entire country of skilled laborers.

Where do we find doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, etc. etc. etc.

Listen, college isn't for everyone of course. However, I freaking loved college and the experiences/classes/maturity I gained there is directly responsible for my paycheck.

The bottom line is we need to send our brightest HS students to college to do these extremely important jobs that are part of the foundation of our society. So if HS is using propaganda on these students, fine by me.

 

[tarheel0910]

The bottom line is we need to send our brightest HS students to college to do these extremely important jobs that are part of the foundation of our society. So if HS is using propaganda on these students, fine by me.

All students, no matter how bright, should be given all of the options available to them and let them decide. Right now the college option is the one that is pushed and is basically the only one that is seriously presented.

Also, these colleges need to get rid of some of these stupid degrees that don't help you get a job. I know saying a degree is stupid is subjective, but we really don't need millions of different options.

 

[dadika13]

All students, no matter how bright, should be given all of the options available to them and let them decide. Right now the college option is the one that is pushed and is basically the only one that is seriously presented.

No one forces them to go to college. Most of the top HS students want to go to college because, on average, college grads make more money than non-college grads, they are interested in things they can study, and want that experience.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

No one forces them to go to college. Most of the top HS students want to go to college because, on average, college grads make more money than non-college grads, they are interested in things they can study, and want that experience.

Most students are scared into college. I'm not saying college is bad. Hell, I just went back and got my degree. Of course, we still need doctors and engineers, but I think what people like @tarheel0910 and I are talking about is that too many kids are buying the snake oil.

 

[Grayhead]

No one forces them to go to college. Most of the top HS students want to go to college because, on average, college grads make more money than non-college grads, they are interested in things they can study, and want that experience.

Does graduating from the school of hard knocks with a doctorate degree count? If so, that's me!!!

Seriously, I know I could be more with some higher education. I am completely self made, with help from above

 

[dadika13]

Most students are scared into college. I'm not saying college is bad. Hell, I just went back and got my degree. Of course, we still need doctors and engineers, but I think what people like @tarheel0910 and I are talking about is that too many kids are buying the snake oil.

I think you were scared into it. I don't think most are.

I simply think it's parents wanting their kids to be successful (i.e. make money) and it is backed by data that college gets you there more than not going to college.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I think you were scared into it. I don't think most are.

I simply think it's parents wanting their kids to be successful (i.e. make money) and it is backed by data that college gets you there more than not going to college.

I finished my degree at the age of 42. Does that sound like someone who was scared into it? I initially was when I was in high school. Hell, nobody ever even talked about trades schools. Do you know how much a welder can make? It's insane.

 

[tarheel0910]

No one forces them to go to college. Most of the top HS students want to go to college because, on average, college grads make more money than non-college grads, they are interested in things they can study, and want that experience.

They aren't technically forced, but there is plenty of pressure put on them to go. The biggest problem is that a four year degree is what is being pushed. Give all of the options and show that you can make really good money by going to a trade school or getting an associates degree too. Don't push one option more than the other. The way it's presented now it's as if the only options are go to college or work for minimum wage at McDonald's.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Definitely decide first if college is the right play for the kid, or if another avenue would be better. Assuming college is the right play...

Have the kid take out the loans as opposed to drawing from your retirement. You can always borrow for school, but can't borrow for retirement. Also, while discharging student loans in bankruptcy is fairly difficult now, I could see that changing down the line as more and more people are saddled with more and more student debt. Not the case if you took the money out of your own retirement.

Also, I'd be an advocate for having the kid take out student loans even if you could completely pay for it. Helps them get an early jump on having a good credit report, and it teaches them the importance of budgeting and paying down a large loan. Also, if the kid is under the impression that they're paying for it themselves, they'd be more likely to be smart about it (i.e. weigh the value of the education with the cost of pursuing it, take it seriously from the get-go since they'll be paying for it themselves, etc.). Then - if you have the money to help them out, you can pay it off (or help them pay it off) afterwards - after they've gotten the benefit of thinking they were doing it all on their own.

Not sure how many years until college you're talking about, but if you are saving some money with that purpose - look into 529 plans (essentially an IRA or HSA but for education expenses). Can help you avoid some taxes on that money.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Someone is making money off of them. It isn't like they're interest-free.

Federal Government

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Federal Government

Do the funds come from the actual taxpayers or from the Federal Reserve?

 

[ticket2ride04]

Do the funds come from the actual taxpayers or from the Federal Reserve?

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/how-do-student-loans-work/

Next bubble btw. Needs to be addressed

 

[Heelicious]

We have a soph in college in a little private liberal arts school - Hillsdale College; Hillsdale MI. Quite conservative. One of few that takes zero fed or state tax money,.... so Hillsdale calls ALL the shots. We did a ton of research on the college selection and whether college is worth the cost - topics. There are several good books (Is College Worth It - Bill Bennett; Fail U - Charles Sykes) that speak about the college bubble, and whether you're really getting return for what you pay for college. Both are very enlightening in considering alternatives to four year college programs, and the massive waste in spending, and where the money actually goes (hint: not that much to teachers actually teaching kids)

Regarding the actual question: Our son did well enough to get a near full ride on tuition, but there still are costs for food, housing, books, fees, etc. We set up an agreement with him (and will do the same for our senior HS daughter) - that if they get an A in the class, we will credit him (pay ourselves) 50% of the cost of the credits for that class. B or lower, they are on their own. Its a good way for them to have some skin in the game, and a nice sized reward if they get good grades, good incentives. And we think its important to treat our kids equally, regardless of what track they take. Any amount we've paid for them for college, that they didn't earn back via A's; they know we expect them to pay back at some point.

I totally agree its a big racket saying kids have to go to college. It floors me how many schools you see out there that can charge like $60-70K PER YEAR, and if the parents can pay it, the college will gladly take it - and the kid comes out with some "useful" degree like Environmental Studies or Gender Studies, no job, and a quarter mil in debt.

Meanwhile you can learn a trade, and within a very few years be making 6 figures in the right field, with no debt to speak of. So who cares then about the "stigma" of not having a college degree if you're adding value, fulfilling a need, and bringing home the big check?

One last note: not true across the board - but I generally found when I went to college, if a kid's parents were well off, and footing the entire bill, those kids just seemed less likely to be engaged in applying themselves and working hard, since it wasn't the kid's own money being spent.

 

[coryfly]

I had a partial academic 'ship and my parents paid for the rest of my undergrad (with grants and loans). I paid for my Master's.

 

[nctransplant]

My undergrad was basically free because of baseball and I'm so damn smart. Borrowed the money for my Masters.

 

[CanuckChuck]

"The world needs ditch diggers, too." - Judge Smails

CC