I like Hicks but it looks like he is in a funk.I thought with this season being his last that he would be putting up better numbers.Maybe its time to play Bradley more and bring Hicks off the bench
Play Bradley more then Hicks...
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What? Hicks was in foul trouble all game (2 of them being BS calls) and when Hicks was in he made some huge shots/plays.
Hicks was not our problem last night.
Hicks was not our problem last night.
I agree, Hicks played, what 15mins due to the fouls, was taken out for large parts of this game on the bench but he hit some really nice jumpers that kept us in it, felt he played really better than I have seen him play for the last few games but the fouls took him out. I kinda felt Tony struggled at times, at other times he stepped up, sure wanted that flush to go down for Tony, that was a 4pt swing right there, not reason we lost but but it was yet another swing back to them that maybe may not have happened had that flush went down and we got back down to the other end off the make as opposed to their getting the run out to the rim.
I love Isaiah but he simply has a low basketball IQ. It's the main reason he's in constant foul trouble. An example is that he has to step out on their hot shooter when we're up by two, and force him to drive the ball. He probably has the most pro potential of any of our players but he is never going to reach his potential if he doesn't learn to play a little smarter. He can't help us if he's on the bench with foul trouble.
TBS, we need Isaiah to play at least 25 MPG if we're to reach the FF again. So I don't agree with the premise of this thread. We don't need less minutes from Isaiah, we need more/smarter minutes.
TBS, we need Isaiah to play at least 25 MPG if we're to reach the FF again. So I don't agree with the premise of this thread. We don't need less minutes from Isaiah, we need more/smarter minutes.
I think Tony Bradley has a chance to be a 1-and-done. And if that's the case, I'd rather play him a lot before losing him.
I view Hicks as a decent player. But he benefited last year from playing with 2 legit post players (1 being maybe the best big in CBB). Most teams just aren't equipped to deal with that in their starting 5. And Hicks would be able to dominate bench bigs while playing with 1 dominant big. His rebounding is pretty embarrassing and that might be a sign he's a little bit soft.
I think Bradley is our best big, and to be honest, I don't think it's that close.
I view Hicks as a decent player. But he benefited last year from playing with 2 legit post players (1 being maybe the best big in CBB). Most teams just aren't equipped to deal with that in their starting 5. And Hicks would be able to dominate bench bigs while playing with 1 dominant big. His rebounding is pretty embarrassing and that might be a sign he's a little bit soft.
I think Bradley is our best big, and to be honest, I don't think it's that close.
Hurts to say it but Hicks and Nate have disappointed so far this year. I really hope they turn it around.
Imagine where we'd be if Tony was one of those typical freshman bigs that takes a year or more to get rolling. I hope he can keep it up.
I said earlier on that I'd like to see Kennedy play more PF and high post. Several others here expressed the same view. The more we depend on Tony inside, the more reasonable that sounds.
To be fair, Nate's D has been pretty good. Unfortunately when a guy is on a roll like Monk was, it doesn't matter how far up their grill you stay. Time and again I saw good D against Monk - from several of our players - that didn't make a bit of difference.
Unfortunately, Nate's offense has gone to the dogs. This is his worst year (so far) on 2-pt shooting and FT shooting, and worst since his freshman year on 3-pt shooting, eFG% and ORtg. Also his worst year for getting to the FT line. About the only bright spot other than improved D is that his assist rate is better.
Imagine where we'd be if Tony was one of those typical freshman bigs that takes a year or more to get rolling. I hope he can keep it up.
I said earlier on that I'd like to see Kennedy play more PF and high post. Several others here expressed the same view. The more we depend on Tony inside, the more reasonable that sounds.
To be fair, Nate's D has been pretty good. Unfortunately when a guy is on a roll like Monk was, it doesn't matter how far up their grill you stay. Time and again I saw good D against Monk - from several of our players - that didn't make a bit of difference.
Unfortunately, Nate's offense has gone to the dogs. This is his worst year (so far) on 2-pt shooting and FT shooting, and worst since his freshman year on 3-pt shooting, eFG% and ORtg. Also his worst year for getting to the FT line. About the only bright spot other than improved D is that his assist rate is better.
I disagree, Tony one day will be fantastic for us and in spots he shows that great ability. But he as well shows that he is a freshman but given the choice between Hicks and Tony, Hicks is more ready to help us, if he can stay on the freakin floor. Tony got shoved around a good bit last night, right now his game is using his length to out long his opponent, it isn't a refined mid range jumper, a consistent go to jump hook, a drive with the ball baseline finish. These are things Hicks can give us, when he has his intensity level up and he isn't in constant foul trouble.
Now YES, I do want to see Tony playing more minutes, I would like to see him taking some of Luke's minutes but for now Luke stays in proper position more than Tony does (experience factor).
Nate looked totally over his head in that game yesterday. I was almost hoping Roy would just keep Kenny in the game or maybe Try Robinson a bit more.
Also we shouldnt be totally surprised about Tony contributing. He was a top 20 player for a reason in a stacked class. Yes, rankings do matter.
Robinson showed some good stuff. Plus some freshman goofs. But I came away with a decent impression. I think he's coming along OK.
A lot of our guys looked over their heads in that game. But (and this is a very good thing) they kept playing hard.
Overall (and except for the final score) that was one of the best games I've seen in a while.
I can see either Kenny or Brandon getting PT over Nate at the 2. But Nate still has to be our backup PG in the crunch - as Woods proved again in this game.
Kennedy has been steady, certainly not spectacular, but steady. That's all we can ask of him, with his somewhat limited skills.
Isaiah has been steady when he hasn't been severely limited by foul trouble, though he needs to go to the boards much harder. Unfortunately, he has continued to stay in foul trouble. Brice "got it" halfway through his junior year and was able to play major minutes without picking up silly fouls. A third of the way through his senior campaign and the light still hasn't come on for Isaiah. Just can't understand that unless it's just low basketball IQ.
I will be very surprised if Tony doesn't return for another year, he really needs the additional strength.
Nate is in a terrible shooting slump. I feel for the young man. Unfortunately, 7th is a walking TO at this point so Nate is getting more minutes than he otherwise would, IMO. And Kenny is playing well defensively, but his offense is still a work in progress.
I'm very pleased with Luke's progress, especially with his earlier injury. That game should dispel any thoughts that he's not an ACC caliber player. Not All-ACC caliber, but ACC caliber.
Isaiah has been steady when he hasn't been severely limited by foul trouble, though he needs to go to the boards much harder. Unfortunately, he has continued to stay in foul trouble. Brice "got it" halfway through his junior year and was able to play major minutes without picking up silly fouls. A third of the way through his senior campaign and the light still hasn't come on for Isaiah. Just can't understand that unless it's just low basketball IQ.
I will be very surprised if Tony doesn't return for another year, he really needs the additional strength.
Nate is in a terrible shooting slump. I feel for the young man. Unfortunately, 7th is a walking TO at this point so Nate is getting more minutes than he otherwise would, IMO. And Kenny is playing well defensively, but his offense is still a work in progress.
I'm very pleased with Luke's progress, especially with his earlier injury. That game should dispel any thoughts that he's not an ACC caliber player. Not All-ACC caliber, but ACC caliber.
Hicks 23.5MPG 12.5PPG 4.9RPG 61%FG 81%FT
Bradley 17.1MPG 9.2PPG 6.3RPG 58%FG 64%FT
Kennedy 22.8MPG 12.4PPG 9.1 RPG 53%FG 56%FT
Other than rebounds, Isaiah's numbers are better across the board. He and Kennedy are playing a mere 46.3MPG. I actually think we need more minutes from them. Love ya Smooth but I think the numbers support just the opposite. I'd like to see Isaiah and Kennedy both playing closer to 28MPG.
Bradley 17.1MPG 9.2PPG 6.3RPG 58%FG 64%FT
Kennedy 22.8MPG 12.4PPG 9.1 RPG 53%FG 56%FT
Other than rebounds, Isaiah's numbers are better across the board. He and Kennedy are playing a mere 46.3MPG. I actually think we need more minutes from them. Love ya Smooth but I think the numbers support just the opposite. I'd like to see Isaiah and Kennedy both playing closer to 28MPG.
Tony Bradley isn't going to be at UNC for that long. If he isn't one and done, he's done after next year because he's going to average a double double next year with relative ease IMO.
But the efficiency stats say Bradley is a better player.
So if we compare the two...
Bradley has a higher offensive rating, has a higher usage rate (meaning he's been more impactful per possession), he's a substantially better offensive rebounder, a better defensive rebounder, higher assist rate, substantially lower turnover rate, higher block rate, higher steal rate, commits less fouls, draws more fouls, higher free throw rate. Bradley's numbers are also better against better competition in terms of a per-possession basis than Hicks.
To a large degree (year to date), Hicks has had a worse year this year than last year.
Jud Buchler had a higher efficiency rating than Michael Jordan in Game 6 of the finals vs Utah. Phil Jackson is a moron for playing that bum over Buchler all game.
Efficiency ratings are extremely flawed when there is a large minutes per game disparity.
Efficiency ratings are extremely flawed when there is a large minutes per game disparity.
Like Nat, Isaiah's numbers have fallen off since last year. At first I was inclined to think this signified he was playing more carefully - to avoid fouls, knowing that he will need to play more minutes. But if that's the plan, it isn't quite as successful as it needs to be. He is playing more minutes, and he is scoring more per game, on average, but it's just a marginal increase. And he's slid the wrong direction on some things, like rebounds.Tony Bradley isn't going to be at UNC for that long. If he isn't one and done, he's done after next year because he's going to average a double double next year with relative ease IMO.
But the efficiency stats say Bradley is a better player.
So if we compare the two...
Bradley has a higher offensive rating, has a higher usage rate (meaning he's been more impactful per possession), he's a substantially better offensive rebounder, a better defensive rebounder, higher assist rate, substantially lower turnover rate, higher block rate, higher steal rate, commits less fouls, draws more fouls, higher free throw rate. Bradley's numbers are also better against better competition in terms of a per-possession basis than Hicks.
To a large degree (year to date), Hicks has had a worse year this year than last year.
We've seen enough of those fall-away jumpers go in that I'm ready to admit that he really can do those consistently. And they're fun to watch. BUT . . . he doesn't draw fouls with them. So although he's hitting his foul shots even better this year, it isn't translating into points because he isn't getting fouled as often.
Here's an interesting thing....
Last season our front line (Brice, Kennedy, Isaiah, JoelJ and Luke) combined per game for
38.5 points
24.9 rebounds
This season's front line (Kennedy, Isaiah, Tony and Luke) are generating nearly identical numbers per game of
39.2 points
23.7 rebounds
Before the season started the idea was that Isaiah would slide into Brice's role. And between him and Kennedy, they needed to make up the scoring we were losing with Brice's departure.
Last year Brice scored at a 17.0 clip while Kennedy delivered 9.2 - for a combined 26.2.
This year Isaiah is hitting 12.5 and Kennedy 12.4 - for a total of 24.9.
Tony is stepping into the role Isaiah filled last year, and is hitting 9.2, a little better than Isaiah then (8.9).
Meanwhile, Luke's 5.1 ppg is is little better than the combined contribution of Luke and JoelJ last season (3.4).
Which is to say that things are working out pretty well.
Last season our front line (Brice, Kennedy, Isaiah, JoelJ and Luke) combined per game for
38.5 points
24.9 rebounds
This season's front line (Kennedy, Isaiah, Tony and Luke) are generating nearly identical numbers per game of
39.2 points
23.7 rebounds
Before the season started the idea was that Isaiah would slide into Brice's role. And between him and Kennedy, they needed to make up the scoring we were losing with Brice's departure.
Last year Brice scored at a 17.0 clip while Kennedy delivered 9.2 - for a combined 26.2.
This year Isaiah is hitting 12.5 and Kennedy 12.4 - for a total of 24.9.
Tony is stepping into the role Isaiah filled last year, and is hitting 9.2, a little better than Isaiah then (8.9).
Meanwhile, Luke's 5.1 ppg is is little better than the combined contribution of Luke and JoelJ last season (3.4).
Which is to say that things are working out pretty well.
Our Bigs scoring will improve when Theo gets back. He knows how/when to feed the post.
I like Hicks playing a bunch. Just not at the end of games, though to be fair he made a great pass to Justin on the 'and 1'.
I also agree with Mike that Theo is probably one of the best on the team at the post entry. None of our PGs are great at it (not that they are terrible, just not great). Bradley is not going to see his time increase until he stops watching the ball on the defensive boards. I mean, he is getting quite a bit of time anyway.
I also agree with Mike that Theo is probably one of the best on the team at the post entry. None of our PGs are great at it (not that they are terrible, just not great). Bradley is not going to see his time increase until he stops watching the ball on the defensive boards. I mean, he is getting quite a bit of time anyway.
I like Hicks too, but because he is so foul-prone (whether warranted or not) that at the end of games, he plays defense a bit too cautiously. Notice he didn't close out hard on Monk when he hit the game-winning 3, or when Kris Jenkins hit his game-winning 3 in the title game.
I think you're one of the better posters on this board, dadika. But I don't think your statement is a very good comparison. It's true that efficiency numbers are essentially meaningless if the sample size is really small, like Jud Buechler's 8 minutes in game 6 of the finals. But come on, Tony Bradley isn't getting Buechler-like minutes. And Kennedy and Isaiah aren't getting MJ like minutes - and we're not talking about one game. Minutes played this year among those 3: Isaiah- 282, Kennedy- 273, Tony- 205. A minute disparity of 6.4 is not that big.
Isaiah is very efficient in terms of shooting, but that's the only edge he has over Tony. He's behind in all the other categories. Here are the stats per 40 minutes:
Kennedy- 21.8 ppg, 16.0 reb, 1.3 ast, 1.8 stl, 1.5 blk, 4.4 pf's, 53% fg, 56.3% ft
Isaiah- 21.3 ppg, 8.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 0.6 stl, 1.1 blk, 5.2 pf's, 60% fg, 81.1% ft
Tony- 21.5 ppg, 14.6 reb, 2.1 ast, 0.8 stl, 1.4 blk, 4.1 pf's, 57.8% fg, 64.3% ft
Player efficiency ratings: Tony- 29.4, Kennedy- 25.5, Isaiah- 20.8
Isiah is averaging committing 6.2 fouls/40 minutes against the better teams we've played. If that doesn't change for Isiah, Roy isn't going to have a choice but to play Bradley and Maye more.
I think Isiah is more of a 6th man for this team. I haven't seen him being able to stay on the floor against good teams and just doesn't rebound. He's a player that (at the moment) if he isn't scoring, he doesn't serve a ton of value.
Just think about this.
Bradley has had 7+ offensive rebounding games 3x this season.
Isaiah has had 7+ TOTAL rebounding games once this season.
I think Isiah is more of a 6th man for this team. I haven't seen him being able to stay on the floor against good teams and just doesn't rebound. He's a player that (at the moment) if he isn't scoring, he doesn't serve a ton of value.
Just think about this.
Bradley has had 7+ offensive rebounding games 3x this season.
Isaiah has had 7+ TOTAL rebounding games once this season.
MJ also had a 55% user rate that game.
Granted Bill Wennington had a 40% usage rate in that game... But we'll ignore that anomaly
Hicks should start, but Roy should just play the hot hand as the game progresses. Some nights it is going to be Bradley and some nights it is going to be Hicks. The main thing I have noticed with Hicks, when he has struggled this year, is he has held the ball too long instead of making a quick move as soon as he gets the pass into the post.
I'm coming to that same conclusion, and I really hate to say that.
That statistic speaks volumes, SJung. Tony also has 75 total rebounds to Isaiah's 59 in 77 less minutes played.
Totally agree. I also think Roy should run set plays until the first TV timeout, specifically designed to get the ball to Isaiah in the paint. Brice had his best games last year when he got early touches to enable him to get into the offensive flow quickly. I think it would behoove Roy to make a concerted effort to get Isaiah off early too.
The rebounding discrepancy is rather startling.
If being soft on rebounds and blocks was the price we had to pay to cut fouls, maybe that would be an acceptable tradeoff. But he's still fouling too much.
Can one of our gurus explain why he has so much trouble with that?
Kennedy's steal number is pretty interesting.
I am pretty sure in neither of those instances was Hicks the primary defender responsible for the shooter. I'm not saying his defense is good. I'm just saying in both cases others made bigger mistakes than Hicks did.
Hicks was supposed to be a game changer this year but dude either forces it or just fouls way too damn much. Bradley is a best down low and he's got a higher basketball IQ. I'd love to see him getting 25+ minutes. Whether that comes from Kennedy, Hicks or Maye playing less minutes, I'm all for it.
I had this conversation with another tar heel fan a few weeks ago about Hicks basketball IQ. Doesn't seem he processes situations very quickly. Take the last shot by Monk for example. Monk has been torching us all game and on his last shot, Hicks is playing off him and hesitating as if he doesn't know what to expect.. even the lady next to me said.."get up on him..get up on him". So Hicks backs off then the light bulb goes off and he's like "ok let me get out on him:.. well it's too late now, Monk is locked and loaded and the rest is history. Wisdom would have said "i'm not going to give him room to jack up an open 3... if he makes it he makes it but i'm going to leave him open"... Just seems to process stuff slow on the defensive end. Look at the time out when the ball was inbounded where he walked. Didn't seem to be sure about what needed to be done and how. I'm sure he's a bright kid in the classroom and a good kid all around but basketball IQ i think is his shortcoming.
I can't remember any starter that Roy demoted to coming off the bench unless an injury was involved. Roy is loyal til the end and protects there ego.
This seems true especially in a given year once you reach acc play. Plenty of tinkering and lineup changes year to year and pre conference.
I'll be very surprised if Bradley doesn't get as many minutes as either Meeks or Hicks by mid acc. And more than Maye.
I used that ridiculous example just to show that minutes per game is HUGE when talking efficiency.
Unless you're Durant/Steph/Lebron...minutes increase = efficiency decrease.
I can try, Hicks is spending a lot of time out top and he gets switched on to wings a LOT, has this habit of wanting to bump the driver with his body, dives me nutzs. He also has the habit of sticking his hand in the cookie jar and can't seem to do that without getting caught and it just isn't worth it.
As for his rebounding, just seems to me he has trouble reading the ball flight, he turns his head on the shot to try to see where the ball could bound from and lets his opponent establish the inside position, not wanting to go over the back he backs off. You identify the rebounders and box out and you hold that box out inside position, he tends to lean and not establish. He does not get a ton of his own missed shots because he just doesn't miss many shots, very efficient shot to make. Meeks OTH will rack up multiple rebounds off his own misses, not very efficient but it stuff the stat sheet.
Hicks is the guy that tends to draw the guard the stretch 4 guy or the 4 that goes to the high post, takes him out of great rebounding position. Hicks does a lot off the ball that goes un-noticed, I see a lot of drives by our guards that happen because Hicks walled off a lane or set an elevator for a pop out shooter. I think some of the play not to foul mindset has creeped in to his head and that makes a player back off and funny thing most often when kid has that creep in to his head, he still ends up fouling because that hand can't help but find the cookie jar.
As for fouls, I would tell him, you pick up your first foul within the first 10mins then I am pulling you and you will not get back in until the under 4 time out mark. Pick up your second in the first half and you do not start the second half or get in until after the first 5mins of the second half.
Most of you guys know me. I'm one of the eternal optimists and rarely criticize one of our players. but damn, Isaiah. It's not rocket science. Basketball is one of the simplest of ball sports. Back the freak off your man and don't reach in. It's really that simple. Don't know that I've seen a Carolina guy with less basketball IQ. Stay in the game. You can't help us on the bench. He's one of the most frustrating UNC players in years because he has so much talent but he can't seem to grasp that it's wasted on the pine. It always amazed me that it took Brice halfway through his junior year to realize that. Isaiah still hasn't and his career is almost over.
I love the guy but Jimminy Crickets!
I love the guy but Jimminy Crickets!
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The top 16 players in PER in the NBA are all averaging 32+ minutes per game (336 players are eligible).... If we're talking about college guys averaging close to 40 minutes, then I would agree - fatigue sets in and the legs get heavy. But for guys like Kennedy, Isaiah, and Tony that are averaging 17-24 minutes a game, that should not be a factor at all. They have plenty of time to rest. 6 more minutes of playing time is negligible.
I would like Tony's minutes go up to around 20 now and by late season to post season up closer to 22-23. Not dumping on Luke but I don't really understand the first big off the bench not being Tony? Granted he is not as comfortable with positioning as Luke is, Luke has the experience and understanding advantage but the more Tony plays the more he gets it and it isn't a real hard thing to realize who is able to give us more.
Now as to the title thread, Hicks seems to give the OP what he wants by picking up the fouls, he self limits his PT, I wish he wouldn't.
Now as to the title thread, Hicks seems to give the OP what he wants by picking up the fouls, he self limits his PT, I wish he wouldn't.
Well, Brice had that exact same problem until the end of his junior year, when he finally realized he couldn't help us if he was sitting on the bench. It's a puzzle as to why Isaiah just can't grasp that and play smarter. He is potentially costing himself a lot of money.
I didn't read all the poasts in this thread but that's never stopped me from commenting before.
Hicks wasn't terrible on Saturday. A couple of those foul calls were bunk. But that does speak to his propensity to foul and put himself and the team in trouble. Bradley is the better player. Bradley is also better than Meeks. But we need all 3 and Bradley's conditioning probably isn't what Meeks' and Hicks' is. I like the current state of affairs in the frontcourt. Hicks and Meeks starting and Bradley coming off the bench. It suits all of them. As far as time on the court, that's situational. When we need a defensive presence, I like Bradley in. But when we need more quickness, Hicks is the better option.
As far as Hicks' pro potential, I don't think he was ever going to be anything more than a 2nd round pick at best. He's probably more likely to not get drafted and just find a team that needs an athletic big. But Hicks' biggest problem is that to be such an athletic big, he does not rebound well. And on the NBA level, he's not a scorer. He just doesn't have developed post moves and he's not quick enough or a good enough shooter to play a stretch 4 or SF. A guy like Hicks needed to be a great rebounder and defender to have a long NBA career and he has not excelled in either area. I fear Hicks will be playing over seas (NTTAWWT).
Hicks wasn't terrible on Saturday. A couple of those foul calls were bunk. But that does speak to his propensity to foul and put himself and the team in trouble. Bradley is the better player. Bradley is also better than Meeks. But we need all 3 and Bradley's conditioning probably isn't what Meeks' and Hicks' is. I like the current state of affairs in the frontcourt. Hicks and Meeks starting and Bradley coming off the bench. It suits all of them. As far as time on the court, that's situational. When we need a defensive presence, I like Bradley in. But when we need more quickness, Hicks is the better option.
As far as Hicks' pro potential, I don't think he was ever going to be anything more than a 2nd round pick at best. He's probably more likely to not get drafted and just find a team that needs an athletic big. But Hicks' biggest problem is that to be such an athletic big, he does not rebound well. And on the NBA level, he's not a scorer. He just doesn't have developed post moves and he's not quick enough or a good enough shooter to play a stretch 4 or SF. A guy like Hicks needed to be a great rebounder and defender to have a long NBA career and he has not excelled in either area. I fear Hicks will be playing over seas (NTTAWWT).
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