Quick late stuff (Dayton game)...

[gary-7]

....and take that, bitches!

Well... we got the scrub announcers, the scrub refs and we played like f***ing scrubs for 20 minutes, so I ain't even gonna talk about that sorry-ass half. Also, I'm gonna save the technical analysis for later ITT, and just put out some takes before I hit the hay:

- The first best thing I contributed to my own sanity was turning off the damn TV volume at halftime, lest I try to reach thru the screen and strangle that moron Alexander. Good Lord at his mouth-babbling buffoonery.

- We came out of halftime with the sort of effort and urgency on both ends we need EVERY game. EC set the tone vs their thug-ball defense by taking it right down their fouling throats, but then let his emotions get the best of him and picked up a knucklehead foul. Granted, only due to the incompetence of the aformentioned scrub zebras was that his 4th, but still.... and he got a well-deserved chewing-out from Marcus on the bench.

- But here's where major props go out. Everyone who played in the 2nd half basically refused to back down from the mission and we kept chipping away by getting stops and converting thru constant and major contact --- even though we somehow didn't get into the bonus until less than 7 to go. Unreal.

- On that note, I got one word for RJ and Seth --- #Warriors. RJ turned on the microwave and geez, Seth seemed to be everywhere. And BTW, Seth has turned himself into a helluva FT shooter to boot.

- Hubert rolled the dice and brought EC back in earlier than I thought he would and it payed off as it kicked us into the next gear. Even with them throwing in prayer 3s, we just kept pushing and attacking the rim. We started converting Eliot's dimes (after blowing friggin 10 in the first half), and speaking of 3s, a couple of BIG-TIME conversions by Drake when they swarmed RJ.

- The driving force though was DEFENSE and that started with EFFORT from all 5 guys for the entire shot-clock that had been missing before, and scrapping for the contested balls through grabbing hands. And props to JWash, after getting bullied in the first half, for some crucial individual stops down the stretch while their goon finally fouled out --- and after half-assing at the rim in the first half, finishing strong in the second.

- Finally, that last "offensive foul" on RJ was utter BS, and for the record, I'll go so far as to say the ONLY thing that was gonna keep our guys from completing this classic comeback was that trio of numbskulls in stripes. At least they got the review of stepping on the 3-pt line right, so there's that I guess.

Anyway, as I said, I'll offer some analysis later, and it was an amazing and heartening comeback after falling short at KU... BUT, we'd sure as hell better bring that 2nd half effort from the get-go vs Auburn or we'll get run outta the damn gym tomorrow...

 

[sctarheel30]

Spot on again

 

[sctarheel30]

Love to see those cocky arseholes walk off with a big fat L

 

[gkss]

....and take that, bitches!

Well... we got the scrub announcers, the scrub refs and we played like f***ing scrubs for 20 minutes, so I ain't even gonna talk about that sorry-ass half. Also, I'm gonna save the technical analysis for later ITT, and just put out some takes before I hit the hay:

- The first best thing I contributed to my own sanity was turning off the damn TV volume at halftime, lest I try to reach thru the screen and strangle that moron Alexander. Good Lord at his mouth-babbling buffoonery.

- We came out of halftime with the sort of effort and urgency on both ends we need EVERY game. EC set the tone vs their thug-ball defense by taking it right down their fouling throats, but then let his emotions get the best of him and picked up a knucklehead foul. Granted, only due to the incompetence of the aformentioned scrub zebras was that his 4th, but still.... and he got a well-deserved chewing-out from Marcus on the bench.

- But here's where major props go out. Everyone who played in the 2nd half basically refused to back down from the mission and we kept chipping away by getting stops and converting thru constant and major contact --- even though we somehow didn't get into the bonus until less than 7 to go. Unreal.

- On that note, I got one word for RJ and Seth --- #Warriors. RJ turned on the microwave and geez, Seth seemed to be everywhere. And BTW, Seth has turned himself into a helluva FT shooter to boot.

- Hubert rolled the dice and brought EC back in earlier than I thought he would and it payed off as it kicked us into the next gear. Even with them throwing in prayer 3s, we just kept pushing and attacking the rim. We started converting Eliot's dimes (after blowing friggin 10 in the first half), and speaking of 3s, a couple of BIG-TIME conversions by Drake when they swarmed RJ.

- The driving force though was DEFENSE and that started with EFFORT from all 5 guys for the entire shot-clock that had been missing before, and scrapping for the contested balls through grabbing hands. And props to JWash, after getting bullied in the first half, for some crucial individual stops down the stretch while their goon finally fouled out --- and after half-assing at the rim in the first half, finishing strong in the second.

- Finally, that last "offensive foul" on RJ was utter BS, and for the record, I'll go so far as to say the ONLY thing that was gonna keep our guys from completing this classic comeback was that trio of numbskulls in stripes. At least they got the review of stepping on the 3-pt line right, so there's that I guess.

Anyway, as I said, I'll offer some analysis later, and it was an amazing and heartening comeback after falling short at KU... BUT, we'd sure as hell better bring that 2nd half effort from the get-go vs Auburn or we'll get run outta the damn gym tomorrow...

Agree and spot on gary-7! Cory Alexander rambled on and had awful takes. Take of two halves! Look forward to your technical analysis. Thanks.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Couldn't stay up to watch last night. About to watch the replay. I guess I'll just skip to the 2nd half then. 😉

 

[Kool1234567]

Is it time to just start Drake at the 4…

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Tried to watch the first half last night but couldn't stay awake! I will watch DVR of it after work today. Up to last night, I had no problem with CA (I actually put him in the same category as Walton-peeps who don't necessarily talk about the game but are entertaining)-now I hope I never hear his voice again! He really went off the rails with blatant cheering/cosigning for Dayton!

Refs were indescribably bad and seemed unable to decide what was or was not a foul! Consistency would have made it a bit easier even if wrong-headed. I am so incredibly proud of our team and once again they proved to be tough enough to overcome bullying tactics and uncertain whistles. I am glad to hear JWash found his backbone at halftime; RJ found his mojo; Seth took another step; EC figured out how to manage his emotions; Drake saw a few shots fall at important moments; AND we finally matched their intensity/effort! (OH, and look at JB contributing during some important minutes!) Tyson is finding ways to impact the game with rebounding and tap backs on the boards even though he still hasn't found that confident stroke.

Anybody who doesn't think RJ is one of our best players has lost all credibility! (Sometimes silence is the best choice!)

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

I’m lucky enough to have seen the three biggest comebacks in Carolina history and relish them.
This one seems so special because it highlights the character and heart of these young men so
clearly. Watch our second half huddles. Watch and appreciate their full-on attention to Coach Davis.
It’s a long season, but lots of lessons were learned last night by some apt pupils.
G EFFING DTBATH ⛹🏾‍♂️ 👏🏾👍🏾👏🏾👍🏾

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I assume one of them was against Peanut Head and FSU! I was at that game and we gave him some Wine and Cheese!

Nobody will question our heart this season and all will know they have to play until the last horn sounds to beat us!

Great Job Hubs and Great Job players!

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

I assume one of them was against Peanut Head and FSU! I was at that game and we gave him some Wine and Cheese!

Yes, indeed TP, that has to be one of your life highlights right there. 😁 Sam Cassell had it coming and l’m sure your throat was ragged the next day. 😉

 

[montana_heel]

Great to see Drake and Ian get some time. Even had a James Brown sighting.

I think Drake and Seth really fueled that comeback with their defense and not having another turnover fest in the 2nd half.
We did it to ourselves the first half. Lack of effort defensively and ridiculous careless turnovers.

Have to learn to start the game with intensity. (all starters but Seth) Drake starting might bring some of that. He is getting so much more comfortable from one game to the next.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Is it time to just start Drake at the 4…

I still haven't gotten to watch the game, but box score shows very little from JWit, and only a few minutes from Cade (not sure if that was at the 3 or 4), so rolling with Drake looks like the better option.

 

[Kool1234567]

I still haven't gotten to watch the game, but box score shows very little from JWit, and only a few minutes from Cade (not sure if that was at the 3 or 4), so rolling with Drake looks like the better option.

Yea I haven’t watched the game either 4:30 comes early but I did see him hit a big 3 at the end of the game on ESPN highlights this morning getting ready for work..I think Jwit might be better served coming off the bench…

 

[montana_heel]

If I got to decide, the first crappy non hustle play I saw would get you yanked for quite some time. Even if I had to take an L, it would be good long term so they understand the requirement (not expectation, REQUIREMENT) to see the floor. Bobby Knight had a great line about the bench being a great motivator. I believe in that.

 

[heels05champs]

I still haven't gotten to watch the game, but box score shows very little from JWit, and only a few minutes from Cade (not sure if that was at the 3 or 4), so rolling with Drake looks like the better option.

Cade didn’t play much and badly air balled a 3 pointer. JWit seemed to struggle as well. Lots of great production from several others though.

 

[Bubspub88]

67 points from the backcourt and 25 from the rest of the team. Dayton bench outscored UNC by almost 3 to 1. That is very discouraging moving forward.

Auburn is a legit final four contender. Heels have shown some heart in coming back twice but getting down that much to Dayton on a neutral court is inexcusable.

It is still early but there are some glaring problems that need to be solved. Right now UNC's two best players are both at the 2 and there a true pg1 that need to be on the court. The natural positions for the freshmen are at the 2 and 3. Washington is not a traditional post threat and Withers is inconsistent. Add in transfers who have not really contributed and you have a mess.

I think this season will really tell us a LOT about Hubert as a coach.

 

[Goheels83]

EC needs to keep his emotions in check.
He is our best player but he came into the game a little out of control. He pouts sometimes and I don’t care for that. And if I was a ref I would hate that shit.

 

[NathanFielder]

It's a bit of an old school take but I think having any bench player come in cold and expect them to drill 3s right away like they're asking from Cade is really tough. I'm not saying Cade should start but he needs to get in the flow of the game by getting involved in other ways whether that's rebounding, passing, or something. It's hard to ask a college kid to just come in cold off the bench and shoot 3s and make them. That's more for the pros IMO.

My overall take on the game is similar to Kansas. The game made everyone's opinion about this team right at some point of the game. For those bearish and concerned that there's no consistent quality big man, they certainly had that validated. For those who are bullish because this is arguably the best backcourt in the country, that was validated.

Definitely have to be encouraged that this team has some guts and the capability to come back.

But the concerns about the big guys remain. I honestly came away thinking how much a player like Amael L'Etang would help this team. He isn't all that athletic, but you can run your offense through him above the FT line. He can pass just enough, he can screen just enough, and he can shoot just enough. As of now, this team doesn't have that and you can run into issues if you can't run your offense through a big guy. So it's a concern for me.

I thought the first half offense was really static. I didn't see all that many set plays but I wasn't watching too closely. I thought the freelance in the first half was really static. While I thought Dayton was extremely aggressive and forceful with their cuts and screening. They had intention to their offense in the first half. UNC didn't. Thought Hubert called more sets in the second half and it benefited the team. So work to be done. The offense has to have much more movement. The first half is not the way you want to run a 5 out offense. There needs to be constant and violent movement and misdirection.

And LOL to complaining about the refs. Cadeau had a pushoff like a minute after he picked up his first foul and the refs swallowed the whistle. I thought Cadeau's 3rd foul call was pretty soft but don't like the refs? Too f'ing bad. Adjust.

And LOL calling Dayton's defense thug like. UNC has a really small backcourt and limited bigs. EVERY team's gameplan is going to be get really physical against the small guards. And be really physical inside because UNC has no size. Again, don't like it? Too f'ing bad. Adjust.

 

[NathanFielder]

EC needs to keep his emotions in check.
He is our best player but he came into the game a little out of control. He pouts sometimes and I don’t care for that. And if I was a ref I would hate that shit.

His 4th foul was a sign of some immaturity. He needs to realize his value to his team and to go after the loose ball like he did was disappointing.

 

[Quest4Seven]

67 points from the backcourt and 25 from the rest of the team. Dayton bench outscored UNC by almost 3 to 1. That is very discouraging moving forward.

Auburn is a legit final four contender. Heels have shown some heart in coming back twice but getting down that much to Dayton on a neutral court is inexcusable.

It is still early but there are some glaring problems that need to be solved. Right now UNC's two best players are both at the 2 and there a true pg1 that need to be on the court. The natural positions for the freshmen are at the 2 and 3. Washington is not a traditional post threat and Withers is inconsistent. Add in transfers who have not really contributed and you have a mess.

I think this season will really tell us a LOT about Hubert as a coach.

Our frontcourt is not ACC caliber and it’s hilarious how much heat people on this board got for saying as much over the summer. Such a waste when our backcourt is probably the best in the country

 

[gary-7]

And LOL to complaining about the refs. Cadeau had a pushoff like a minute after he picked up his first foul and the refs swallowed the whistle. I thought Cadeau's 3rd foul call was pretty soft but don't like the refs? Too f'ing bad. Adjust.

And LOL calling Dayton's defense thug like. UNC has a really small backcourt and limited bigs. EVERY team's gameplan is going to be get really physical against the small guards. And be really physical inside because UNC has no size. Again, don't like it? Too f'ing bad. Adjust.

BS. And we did adjust, but again, BS.
Size is not a carte blanche to continuously foul. That is horrible logic and a ref fail.

 

[gary-7]

Agree and spot on gary-7! Cory Alexander rambled on and had awful takes. Take of two halves! Look forward to your technical analysis. Thanks.

Just gonna add a few things with the quick turnaround:

- If we're gonna rely on 21.5 defense, we HAVE to exert max effort thru the rebound. You saw how NOT to, and then a clinic. It was so good in the 2nd half, if they just made a normal pct of 3s, we blow by them way sooner.

- Saw Roy did a clinic on the island. Well, he needs to come do a refresher clinic on the Secondary Break. Right now we're getting squat after initial transition, and the reason is we're making ourselves too easy too defend by not stressing the rim. Despite that blather Greenberg likes to spout, just surrounding a retreating defense is easy as sh** to defend.

- Speaking of the rim, getting there with a purpose opened up our offense in the 2nd half. Dayton was prepared to defend our perimeter game and we made it easy for them --- until we didn't

- As for today, I really didn't want to play Auburn. They are long, athletic and deep, and they're almost all Seniors. The exception is the 5* Freshman PG Pettiford (who was Cadeau's AAU running mate and played off-ball with Eliot). The mitigating factor is that Auburn played almost as bad as we did yesterday out of the gate, and they'll be licking some wounds as well. Also, they have historically had trouble containing smaller quick Guards. But again, we'd damn well better bring it from the tip...

[Edit] I'll add one more scouting report on Auburn. They start both their Bigs and they are a load. Broome is a legit Wooden candidate, and Carswell, while not a skilled scorer, is a train-wreck on the boards and a surprisingly good passer. On that latter note, we had better be ready to defend their Flex-cuts from wing to baseline. If our guys don't open up to the ball we'll get eaten alive from the high-lo feed. I trust the staff has scouted that thoroughly.

 

[gauchoheel]

It's a bit of an old school take but I think having any bench player come in cold and expect them to drill 3s right away like they're asking from Cade is really tough. I'm not saying Cade should start but he needs to get in the flow of the game by getting involved in other ways whether that's rebounding, passing, or something. It's hard to ask a college kid to just come in cold off the bench and shoot 3s and make them. That's more for the pros IMO.

My overall take on the game is similar to Kansas. The game made everyone's opinion about this team right at some point of the game. For those bearish and concerned that there's no consistent quality big man, they certainly had that validated. For those who are bullish because this is arguably the best backcourt in the country, that was validated.

Definitely have to be encouraged that this team has some guts and the capability to come back.

But the concerns about the big guys remain. I honestly came away thinking how much a player like Amael L'Etang would help this team. He isn't all that athletic, but you can run your offense through him above the FT line. He can pass just enough, he can screen just enough, and he can shoot just enough. As of now, this team doesn't have that and you can run into issues if you can't run your offense through a big guy. So it's a concern for me.

I thought the first half offense was really static. I didn't see all that many set plays but I wasn't watching too closely. I thought the freelance in the first half was really static. While I thought Dayton was extremely aggressive and forceful with their cuts and screening. They had intention to their offense in the first half. UNC didn't. Thought Hubert called more sets in the second half and it benefited the team. So work to be done. The offense has to have much more movement. The first half is not the way you want to run a 5 out offense. There needs to be constant and violent movement and misdirection.

And LOL to complaining about the refs. Cadeau had a pushoff like a minute after he picked up his first foul and the refs swallowed the whistle. I thought Cadeau's 3rd foul call was pretty soft but don't like the refs? Too f'ing bad. Adjust.

And LOL calling Dayton's defense thug like. UNC has a really small backcourt and limited bigs. EVERY team's gameplan is going to be get really physical against the small guards. And be really physical inside because UNC has no size. Again, don't like it? Too f'ing bad. Adjust.

This is my first time commenting this season, but that game was worth it. Quite the comeback, and man I'm starting to really love Seth, though my perspective on the team is mostly negative.

My takes:

• Big picture, our bigs just probably aren't good enough to go super far as is. It's really a shame, and I just don't know how Lubin was the best we could get this offseason.
  • Any NIL money spent on Ian/Drake/Tyson would've been better spent adding a big to be quite honest. This backcourt with a dominant big would be #1 overall caliber. I'm pretty worried were going to not take advantage of the incredible confluence of factors that led to RJ/EC/Trimble at this stage of their careers on the same team.
  • Speaking of Tyson, what the heck is going on there? I know he was at a small school prior, maybe it's just jitters? He hasn't looked like he belongs out there so far. It's one thing for an undersized guard like Keeling to struggle shooting when transferring up, but
• I thought our guards frequently pushed off throughout the game, and that last call on RJ was an obvious one. That's Gary's thing though; you gotta take the complaining about the refs to get the good stuff.
• Hubert's late game management/playcalling still needs work:
  • We deliberately ran the clock down in the last minute, which didn't really make sense. Up 1 with 55 seconds left you want to shoot within 15-20 seconds, so that if you miss you can still get the last shot. We've made this mistake several times in the last couple years.
  • I groaned as soon as I saw the pass to Drake and then JWash on our last real possession; we were going for a dribble-hand off to RJ I think, but to me the whole concept was just silly. Our guards were absolutely cooking them off the dribble the whole second half; why do you want the ball in Powell/JWash's hands with the game on the line? Almost a turnover.
  • Then with 7 seconds on the shot clock we gave it to RJ to run all the way down the court and make something happen. I can't recall a single time he's executed well in that scenario honestly (I'm sure there have been some). I'd rather have given it to Cadaeu to try to get to the basket. RJ just doesn't have great driving skills in true iso situations, nor is he the best shooting off heavy dribbling.
  • Finally, with this team I don't think I foul up 3 with four seconds left. We just don't have great rebounders; I'd rather have Dayton heaving a prayer 3 to tie it than only needing a tip in off a rebound to tie.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Finished watching (2nd half only), and that was quite impressive grit and determination from the Heels to make that comeback and thankfully finish it off this time. Our backcourt is elite.

EC - I understand why, but I hate to see him be so hard on himself. We saw that last year a few times and chalked it up to immaturity. He's the ultimate competitor; so maybe he just needs to process things that way before he gets back on the floor. I dunno, but it was good to see Marcus talking to him at that time, helping him to settle down.

RJ - he doesn't have to be "the MAN" for 40 minutes like he was last year, but great to see him show up (once again) when we really needed him.

Seth - the improvement last year was nice, but holy cow this DUDE has made such an unbelievable improvement offensively this year. I'm so glad he came back. The greatest UNC portal addition ever!

 

[notashelbyfan]

EC needs to keep his emotions in check.
He is our best player but he came into the game a little out of control. He pouts sometimes and I don’t care for that. And if I was a ref I would hate that shit.

He isn't our best player Trimble is our best player, but we need him to be in control because when he does what he does we can be very good.

His run down and block from behind early in the game was nasty!

 

[gary-7]

This is my first time commenting this season, but that game was worth it. Quite the comeback, and man I'm starting to really love Seth, though my perspective on the team is mostly negative.

My takes:

• Big picture, our bigs just probably aren't good enough to go super far as is. It's really a shame, and I just don't know how Lubin was the best we could get this offseason.
  • Any NIL money spent on Ian/Drake/Tyson would've been better spent adding a big to be quite honest. This backcourt with a dominant big would be #1 overall caliber. I'm pretty worried were going to not take advantage of the incredible confluence of factors that led to RJ/EC/Trimble at this stage of their careers on the same team.
  • Speaking of Tyson, what the heck is going on there? I know he was at a small school prior, maybe it's just jitters? He hasn't looked like he belongs out there so far. It's one thing for an undersized guard like Keeling to struggle shooting when transferring up, but
• I thought our guards frequently pushed off throughout the game, and that last call on RJ was an obvious one. That's Gary's thing though; you gotta take the complaining about the refs to get the good stuff.
• Hubert's late game management/playcalling still needs work:
  • We deliberately ran the clock down in the last minute, which didn't really make sense. Up 1 with 55 seconds left you want to shoot within 15-20 seconds, so that if you miss you can still get the last shot. We've made this mistake several times in the last couple years.
  • I groaned as soon as I saw the pass to Drake and then JWash on our last real possession; we were going for a dribble-hand off to RJ I think, but to me the whole concept was just silly. Our guards were absolutely cooking them off the dribble the whole second half; why do you want the ball in Powell/JWash's hands with the game on the line? Almost a turnover.
  • Then with 7 seconds on the shot clock we gave it to RJ to run all the way down the court and make something happen. I can't recall a single time he's executed well in that scenario honestly (I'm sure there have been some). I'd rather have given it to Cadaeu to try to get to the basket. RJ just doesn't have great driving skills in true iso situations, nor is he the best shooting off heavy dribbling.
  • Finally, with this team I don't think I foul up 3 with four seconds left. We just don't have great rebounders; I'd rather have Dayton heaving a prayer 3 to tie it than only needing a tip in off a rebound to tie.

Let's address this "push-off" stuff once and for all, shall we?

Dayton's Guards employed a (frankly dirty) tactic that I've seen taught. I call it "bump-and-flop". If you're dribbling with your right hand and a defender body-bumps your left shoulder hard enough (especially when you're driving), your left arm will INSTINCTIVELY react toward the bump, so if the defender immediately exaggerates a fall backwards (flop) it is to bait the ref into a bogus call. That is exactly what happened to RJ when that jabronie flopped all the way into Roy, even though RJ no more pushed off than I did.

A good ref will catch that, because by RULE it doesn't matter what RJ did, even if he did make contact with the arm, because the defender clearly INITIATED the contact, which makes it his foul.

Now, you can draw an offensive foul while moving, BUT you have to have beaten your man to the spot and then he initiates contact. That was not the case last night. In every instance they did the initiating. Hell, it wasn't unusual for EC to get body-bumped multiple times just bringing the ball up. And again, a good ref will nip that crap in the bud early to keep the game clean, but not these guys. So, did Eliot push off AFTER he got hit? Well yeah, he's got a street game, but the fact is Dayton's Guards couldn't stay in front of him or RJ, thus they resorted to short-cuts.

That's not "my thing", it's reality.

 

[al would]

Anybody who doesn't think RJ is one of our best players has lost all credibility! (Sometimes silence is the best choice!)

 

[DSouthr]

With around 4 mins gone in that second half, I just had this very strong feeling that we were going to win this game, felt if we could get that margin down to 10 by the 10min mark that Dayton would start feeling game pressure, game pressure can be a 6th defender. Finally, led by Seth, we began to drive the paint with a purpose. JWash after a really bad first half woke up, JWit didn't (so far we have got the Bad Withers in Hawaii), we need the good Withers to step back up. Good to see RJ rounding back in to shooting form, Drake was exceptional, Ian is getting caught in those switches, that is just an experience and communication thing that will get ironed out. Cadeau other than a few flashes had a bad night, back to the maturity thing, he let the refs get in his head, just play on.

The refs, well we got 2 of the very same crew that worked us in the Hawaii game, they were IMO poor in both those games. Said after the Hawaii game, you can literally call a foul on every possession but who comes to see a game called like that? Don't read that in any way as my saying the refs favored Dayton, those refs sucked both ways but what they called did tend to benefit the acting job those Dayton players looked to sell. Example, loose ball on the floor, Cadeau and a Dayton player scramble for it, rarely if ever is a foul called in that situation, it was called on Cadeau and I think that was his 4th? At the same time, those push off with the free hand by our guys driving (Cadeau and RJ) were fouls, thou it is not typically called, especially in physical games, it is a foul. The one that really torked me was Jalen is shoved to the ground, was struggling to try to get up and they not only calla foul on Jalen but call him for a grab & hook flagrant? He was freakin shoved to the ground!

Like this game or not no one can say this team does not have heart, they had every reason there is to roll over and die after than knock down blow they took in that first half but they got up off the deck and won, takes heart for that to happen.

 

[dtodd4475]

Seth has showed that he demands big minutes. That is great, but it also means that our Big 3 are 3 undersized guards for manning positions 1-3. EC/RJ/and Seth are going to get big minutes. Cap. Jack with a chunk as well.

If Drake is the one stepping up as the 4, again we are very small. Tyson looks to be as I feared, not productive at this level. He struggled against Drake both times last year, and the two high major opponents. Maybe he shows some, but looks over matched so far. Withers is still wildly inconsistent.

Washington was bullied early, but has to be big for this roster with splashes of Lubin.

It is a tough roster to mesh, but I do think a core 8 has emerged, albeit a very unconventional core.

 

[DSouthr]

He isn't our best player Trimble is our best player, but we need him to be in control because when he does what he does we can be very good.

His run down and block from behind early in the game was nasty!

I agree, Seth is our best player, I think our second best player is Cadeau (not last night thou). How far this team can go to me will be determined by Jalen and JWit.

 

[gary-7]

The refs, well we got 2 of the very same crew that worked us in the Hawaii game, they were IMO poor in both those games.

Yep, and they are notorious for their lack of competence.
And speaking of them, JWash did NOT travel on the opening possession of the second half.

 

[DSouthr]

Seth has showed that he demands big minutes. That is great, but it also means that our Big 3 are 3 undersized guards for manning positions 1-3. EC/RJ/and Seth are going to get big minutes. Cap. Jack with a chunk as well.

If Drake is the one stepping up as the 4, again we are very small. Tyson looks to be as I feared, not productive at this level. He struggled against Drake both times last year, and the two high major opponents. Maybe he shows some, but looks over matched so far. Withers is still wildly inconsistent.

Washington was bullied early, but has to be big for this roster with splashes of Lubin.

It is a tough roster to mesh, but I do think a core 8 has emerged, albeit a very unconventional core.

So far Seth has been our best player on BOTH sides of the court, he is one of 2 guys that we need on the court as much as possible (Seth and Cadeau). I think after RJ, Drake is maybe our 4th best player right now but I do think we need to stay with JWash and Jwit to begin games for their size if no better reason.

I can not over state enough how important I think it is to have Jalen actively look for his mid range and occasional trey jumpers more actively (means move ya damn feet Jalen and get the position you need).

 

[gkss]

Just gonna add a few things with the quick turnaround:

- If we're gonna rely on 21.5 defense, we HAVE to exert max effort thru the rebound. You saw how NOT to, and then a clinic. It was so good in the 2nd half, if they just made a normal pct of 3s, we blow by them way sooner.

- Saw Roy did a clinic on the island. Well, he needs to come do a refresher clinic on the Secondary Break. Right now we're getting squat after initial transition, and the reason is we're making ourselves too easy too defend by not stressing the rim. Despite that blather Greenberg likes to spout, just surrounding a retreating defense is easy as sh** to defend.

- Speaking of the rim, getting there with a purpose opened up our offense in the 2nd half. Dayton was prepared to defend our perimeter game and we made it easy for them --- until we didn't

- As for today, I really didn't want to play Auburn. They are long, athletic and deep, and they're almost all Seniors. The exception is the 5* Freshman PG Pettiford (who was Cadeau's AAU running mate and played off-ball with Eliot). The mitigating factor is that Auburn played almost as bad as we did yesterday out of the gate, and they'll be licking some wounds as well. Also, they have historically had trouble containing smaller quick Guards. But again, we'd damn well better bring it from the tip...

[Edit] I'll add one more scouting report on Auburn. They start both their Bigs and they are a load. Broome is a legit Wooden candidate, and Carswell, while not a skilled scorer, is a train-wreck on the boards and a surprisingly good passer. On that latter note, we had better be ready to defend their Flex-cuts from wing to baseline. If our guys don't open up to the ball we'll get eaten alive from the high-lo feed. I trust the staff has scouted that thoroughly.

gary-7. Thanks. Excellent takes as usual. Please explain 21.5 to me.

 

[gary-7]

gary-7. Thanks. Excellent takes as usual. Please explain 21.5 to me.

In a nutshell, it's a term a former player and I came up with to describe Hubert's hybrid of our Man defense ---- somewhere between Dean's 21 (gap Man staying "below" the ball) and 22 (more aggressive half-court Man denying passing lanes).

Actually makes sense as a "base" defense in the longer 3-pt era. Just wish we would be multiple on top of that.

Hope that helps...

 

[NathanFielder]

This is my first time commenting this season, but that game was worth it. Quite the comeback, and man I'm starting to really love Seth, though my perspective on the team is mostly negative.

My takes:

• Big picture, our bigs just probably aren't good enough to go super far as is. It's really a shame, and I just don't know how Lubin was the best we could get this offseason.
  • Any NIL money spent on Ian/Drake/Tyson would've been better spent adding a big to be quite honest. This backcourt with a dominant big would be #1 overall caliber. I'm pretty worried were going to not take advantage of the incredible confluence of factors that led to RJ/EC/Trimble at this stage of their careers on the same team.
  • Speaking of Tyson, what the heck is going on there? I know he was at a small school prior, maybe it's just jitters? He hasn't looked like he belongs out there so far. It's one thing for an undersized guard like Keeling to struggle shooting when transferring up, but
• I thought our guards frequently pushed off throughout the game, and that last call on RJ was an obvious one. That's Gary's thing though; you gotta take the complaining about the refs to get the good stuff.
• Hubert's late game management/playcalling still needs work:
  • We deliberately ran the clock down in the last minute, which didn't really make sense. Up 1 with 55 seconds left you want to shoot within 15-20 seconds, so that if you miss you can still get the last shot. We've made this mistake several times in the last couple years.
  • I groaned as soon as I saw the pass to Drake and then JWash on our last real possession; we were going for a dribble-hand off to RJ I think, but to me the whole concept was just silly. Our guards were absolutely cooking them off the dribble the whole second half; why do you want the ball in Powell/JWash's hands with the game on the line? Almost a turnover.
  • Then with 7 seconds on the shot clock we gave it to RJ to run all the way down the court and make something happen. I can't recall a single time he's executed well in that scenario honestly (I'm sure there have been some). I'd rather have given it to Cadaeu to try to get to the basket. RJ just doesn't have great driving skills in true iso situations, nor is he the best shooting off heavy dribbling.
  • Finally, with this team I don't think I foul up 3 with four seconds left. We just don't have great rebounders; I'd rather have Dayton heaving a prayer 3 to tie it than only needing a tip in off a rebound to tie.

This is my first time commenting this season, but that game was worth it. Quite the comeback, and man I'm starting to really love Seth, though my perspective on the team is mostly negative.

My takes:

• Big picture, our bigs just probably aren't good enough to go super far as is. It's really a shame, and I just don't know how Lubin was the best we could get this offseason.
  • Any NIL money spent on Ian/Drake/Tyson would've been better spent adding a big to be quite honest. This backcourt with a dominant big would be #1 overall caliber. I'm pretty worried were going to not take advantage of the incredible confluence of factors that led to RJ/EC/Trimble at this stage of their careers on the same team.
  • Speaking of Tyson, what the heck is going on there? I know he was at a small school prior, maybe it's just jitters? He hasn't looked like he belongs out there so far. It's one thing for an undersized guard like Keeling to struggle shooting when transferring up, but
• I thought our guards frequently pushed off throughout the game, and that last call on RJ was an obvious one. That's Gary's thing though; you gotta take the complaining about the refs to get the good stuff.
• Hubert's late game management/playcalling still needs work:
  • We deliberately ran the clock down in the last minute, which didn't really make sense. Up 1 with 55 seconds left you want to shoot within 15-20 seconds, so that if you miss you can still get the last shot. We've made this mistake several times in the last couple years.
  • I groaned as soon as I saw the pass to Drake and then JWash on our last real possession; we were going for a dribble-hand off to RJ I think, but to me the whole concept was just silly. Our guards were absolutely cooking them off the dribble the whole second half; why do you want the ball in Powell/JWash's hands with the game on the line? Almost a turnover.
  • Then with 7 seconds on the shot clock we gave it to RJ to run all the way down the court and make something happen. I can't recall a single time he's executed well in that scenario honestly (I'm sure there have been some). I'd rather have given it to Cadaeu to try to get to the basket. RJ just doesn't have great driving skills in true iso situations, nor is he the best shooting off heavy dribbling.
  • Finally, with this team I don't think I foul up 3 with four seconds left. We just don't have great rebounders; I'd rather have Dayton heaving a prayer 3 to tie it than only needing a tip in off a rebound to tie.

This offense would be so much more consistent if it can run through a big guy above the FT line for portions of a game. This roster unfortunately doesn’t have that so it will be dependent on Cadeau, RJ, or Seth to win a lot of 1-on-1 matchups. I even wonder if I would rather have just a decent starter level but skilled 5 instead of RJ but that’s neither here nor there.

It’s a bit of a water and oil backcourt for me. RJ and Cadeau need the ball in their hands to impact the game the most offensively. And Seth is probably at the point where you want him having at least 5 downhill drives attacking the basket too. I think it can work overall but we’re going to see some clunkiness unless RJ and Cadeau suddenly learn to play off the ball as well as they play with the ball in their hands.

The makeup of this team reminds me of a poor man’s 2004-05 Illinois team which UNC beat in the title game. I think the backcourt of Cadeau, RJ, and Seth are a little worse than Deron Williams, Dee Brown, Luther Head. And Withers and Washington are a step or 2 below Illinois’ unspectacular big guys. This UNC team has more explosive talent off the bench though.

Hubert’s going to need to push the right buttons all year. They don’t really have a backup PG and Seth isn’t a PG, he’s a wing. So how do you manage Cadeau’s minutes? Then finding the right 4/5 combo is going to be a chore all season unless someone steps up and takes it and doesn’t let go of it.

 

[dtodd4475]

So far Seth has been our best player on BOTH sides of the court, he is one of 2 guys that we need on the court as much as possible (Seth and Cadeau). I think after RJ, Drake is maybe our 4th best player right now but I do think we need to stay with JWash and Jwit to begin games for their size if no better reason.

I can not over state enough how important I think it is to have Jalen actively look for his mid range and occasional trey jumpers more actively (means move ya damn feet Jalen and get the position you need).

Desperately need that front line to solidify, I agree. The strength of the roster is in similar spots. In my opinion EC is the only true point though, and RJ is the only keep the dee honest can score even when the dee has a locked up possession guy, demands attention every possession, that is invaluable for the other limited scorers. I don't see him sitting much at all. Ian has that style but a work in progress, still a pup. Seth is the best mix, and shooting it respectfully, hard to not have the big 3 in big minutes. Drake is a 3 ideally as well, as my 4th solid at this point.

Tough roster without Withers, Wash, or others stepping up outside of the 1 through 3 undersized positions. I'm weary of the matchup with Auburn, hopefully a couple step up to have that "I'm here", confidence moment. It's needed.

 

[gkss]

In a nutshell, it's a term a former player and I came up with to describe Hubert's hybrid of our Man defense ---- somewhere between Dean's 21 (gap Man staying "below" the ball) and 22 (more aggressive half-court Man denying passing lanes).

Actually makes sense as a "base" defense in the longer 3-pt era. Just wish we would be multiple on top of that.

Hope that helps...

Thanks!

 

[tarwhiz]

Cade didn’t play much and badly air balled a 3 pointer. JWit seemed to struggle as well. Lots of great production from several others though.

Cade did not play much and yes the airball, but I thought that he was very active in his short time. He had a steal on defense end than taped a rebound to a teammate on the other end 10 seconds later.
Score dictated he not get time in 2nd half because we needed the defensive pressure.

 

[gary-7]

Cade did not play much and yes the airball, but I thought that he was very active in his short time. He had a steal on defense end than taped a rebound to a teammate on the other end 10 seconds later.
Score dictated he not get time in 2nd half because we needed the defensive pressure.

Cade needs to establish a role if we are to maximize our potential.

 

[tarwhiz]

Cade needs to establish a role if we are to maximize our potential.

Yeah I agree. I no longer think his role will be the starting 4 man, like I initially thought.
I do think we need him to be a consistent rotation piece to give us that designated shooter off the bench.