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Quick stuff (Clemson game)

gary-7

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Jan 27, 2003
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...and we did enough to overcome.

I don't want to start here, but I will: We survived a HORRIFICALLY reffed 1st half, as well as some things that were self-inflicted (both on the floor and from the bench) and showed considerable grit.

- Getting it out of the way, there is just no excuse for how one-sided and blind the first half reffing was. Clemson was blatantly pushing our rebounders in the back on virtually every shot and our guys (RJ in paticular) were getting assaulted both on and off the ball ---yet Clemmy had a grand total of 4 team fouls at the half.

- The saving grace was that Hubert (and even Mando) gave the zebras a well-deserved ear-full and we finally got some calls. And make no mistake, that was the biggest difference in the game. In all liklihood, we don't win that one with a repeat of what went down in the first.

- On the positive side, other than some missed rotations and/or switch recoveries, our defense carried the day in what again, devolved into a rock-fight. I'm gonna start with our boy Armando F***ing Bacot. Mando catches flack from fans (sometimes deservedly) on the offensive end, but lemme tell ya -- what y'all saw today was as fine a defensive performance by a 5-man as you'll ever witness. Count on one hand the number of Centers you see moving their feet and beating guys to spots 15-18 feet from the basket like that, then closing and/or rim-protecting. Make no mistake --- PJ Hall can play, and Mando all but neutralized him.

- Speaking of D, kudos to the staff for running a phalanx of guys at Girard. I told y'all earlier that he was the difference with this year's Clemmy team, and we frustrated him into force after force.

- as valuable as Ingram is, he was just awful at the outset --- getting in the way of outlets (you're the damn 4 in that lineup, get yer butt into a lane!), finessing close shots and getting outworked for rebounds. He got (properly) pulled early for that, but to his credit, came back and had a strong second half, including a dagger drive down the stretch.

- another scare with Cormac, who was having an effective game before the ankle roll. Man, I hope that doesn't become chronic.

- I'm probably not gonna mention everyone (don't @ me),but I like that Hubert has stayed committed to a deep rotation (we went 10 today). It pays off over time. Everyone contributed and although most had a rough moment or two, in a perpetually close game, we got some big shots at timely moments -- Seth hitting a big 3 after a rough offensive first half --- JWash's sweet baseline turn-around (that I wanna see more of) --- big Woj 3 when our movement had stopped.

(edit for this next section: I didn't realize EC had the 2 early fouls --- I addressed that below in a reply ITT)
- Finally, I have to point out something that just won't hunt in the long run. We came out of the gate on the road playing Carolina basketball and scored 11 points in exactly 4 minutes. Then, as has been the norm, out goes Cadeau and we instantly get pulled into a clunky half-court game. Any time RJ has to run Point it is becoming 2014-15 all over again, when defenses would swarm Marcus Paige and make his life miserable, that is, until Joel would come in and offense happened. That was EXACTLY Clemson's tactic today, and it worked. I sure as hell would do it if I was coaching against us. I've said it before, and disagree if you will, but we need to alter that early sub pattern. It kills our rhythm and helps opponents create the rock-fight so many of them want.

Anyway, no Cory... Clemson is NOT the best team in the ACC. Another hard-fought road win... need another one Wednesday!...
:cool:
 
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Huge win!!! Bacot was great. Credit to both Paxson and Seth for hitting timely 3 pointers late in the second half. I’ve never seen 2 Division One schools have zero fast break points in a game. lol. This was another physical game and we did not back down at all. Now let’s take care of Moo U on Wednesday and go 3-0 on this ACC gauntlet of a road trip! GDTBATH
 
Gary hit on most of the points my wife and I were yelling about. Reffing was so one sided it was a joke. Cory harped on Clemson missing all of their threes but still in the game at half. He didn't mention a 10+ ft advantage for Clemson.
Cadeaux being subbed out so quick was due to his 2 quick fouls in the first 4 minutes. The young man has got to get his silly fouls under control. Way too much swiping at the ball or jumping into shooters.
We all spent a lot of time up until the Pitt game wondering how we would do when RJ wasn't on fire. We have seen that for two games now and we have done ok. Defense and rebounding will bail you out of mediocre offensive performances
Love watching this team play--feels good to say that after several years of almost dreading to watch..
 
I am hopeful Cadeau STOPS getting two fouls on himself before the 16:00 mark of the first half. He HAS got to get over that hump. He just has to play smarter. NOW, Trimble, man is this guy a serious athlete. He has IMPROVED his game light years from last year. I LOVE this team and I mean LOVE them. They have DAWG in them that we have not had in a few years (except for the Final Four Run two years ago). Coach Davis is doing a phenomenal job with this team as well. AND yes, I will say this, with all the love for Clemson's defense by the annoying announcers, little was communicated about how well UNC plays defense. This team plays incredible defense AND here is the kicker, we CAN BE A LOT BETTER IMHO.
 
...and we did enough to overcome.

I don't want to start here, but I will: We survived a HORRIFICALLY reffed 1st half, as well as some things that were self-inflicted (both on the floor and from the bench) and showed considerable grit.

- Getting it out of the way, there is just no excuse for how one-sided and blind the first half reffing was. Clemson was blatantly pushing our rebounders in the back on virtually every shot and our guys (RJ in paticular) were getting assaulted both on and off the ball ---yet Clemmy had a grand total of 4 team fouls at the half.

- The saving grace was that Hubert (and even Mando) gave the zebras a well-deserved ear-full and we finally got some calls. And make no mistake, that was the biggest difference in the game. In all liklihood, we don't win that one with a repeat of what went down in the first.

- On the positive side, other than some missed rotations and/or switch recoveries, our defense carried the day in what again, devolved into a rock-fight. I'm gonna start with our boy Armando F***ing Bacot. Mando catches flack from fans (sometimes deservedly) on the offensive end, but lemme tell ya -- what y'll saw today was as fine a defensive performance by a 5-man as you'll ever witness. Count on one hand te number of Centers you see moving their feet and beating guys to spots 15-18 fet from the basket like that, then closing and/or rim-protecting. Make no mistake --- PJ Hall can play, and Mando all but neutralized him.

- Speaking of D, kudos to the staff for running a phalanx of guys at Girard. I told y'all earlier that he was the difference with this year's Clemmy team, and we frustrated him into force after force.

- as valuable as Ingram is, he was just awful at the outset --- getting in the way of outlets (you're the damn 4 in that lineup, get yer butt into a lane!), finessing close shots and getting outworked for rebounds. He got (properly) pulled early for that, but to his credit, came nack and had a strong second half, including a dagger drive down the stretch.

- another scare with Cormac, who was having an effective game before the ankle roll. Man, I hope that doesn't become chronic.

- I'm probably not gonna mention everyone (don't @ me),but I like that Hubert has stayed committed to a deep rotation (we went 10 today). It pays off over time. Everyone contributed and although most had a rough moment or two, in a perpetually close game, we got some big shots at timely moments -- Seth hitting a big 3 after a rough offensive first half --- JWash's sweet baseline turn-around (that I wanna see more of) --- big Woj 3 when our movement had stopped.

- Finally, I have to point out something that just won't hunt in the long run. We came out of the gate on the road playing Carolina basketball and scored 11 points in exactly 4 minutes. Then, as has been the norm, out goes Cadeau and we instantly get pulled into a clunky half-court game. Any time RJ has to run Point it is becoming 2014-15 all over again, when defenses would swarm Marcus Paige and make his life miserable, that is, until Joel would come in and offense happened. That was EXACTLY Clemson's tactic today, and it worked. I sure as hell would do it if I was coaching against us. I've said it before, and disagree if you will, but we need to alter that early sub pattern. It kills our rhythm and helps opponents create the rock-fight so many of them want.

Anyway, no Cory... Clemson is NOT the best team in the ACC. Another hard-fought road win... need another one Wednesday!...
:cool:
Hubert doesn’t / didn’t take EC out of the game. EC takes / took EC out of the game. 2 fouls in 4 minutes is on a trajectory to foul out early in second half as best case scenario.

And after his quick fouls , then it means he has to resort to playing cautious on defense and then gets beat a lot on defense. I love what I think his upside is as a player but still has a long way to go on defensive end.
Note in last part of the game even when close still, Hubs went with rj and Trimble over EC.

Because Trimble has more size and is a better defender and slightly better drive and score threat than ec for now. EC is better passer and better at pushing tempo but Clemson wa keeping Heels from running today anyway.
 
Hubert doesn’t / didn’t take EC out of the game. EC takes / took EC out of the game. 2 fouls in 4 minutes is on a trajectory to foul out early in second half as best case scenario.

And after his quick fouls , then it means he has to resort to playing cautious on defense and then gets beat a lot on defense. I love what I think his upside is as a player but still has a long way to go on defensive end.
Note in last part of the game even when close still, Hubs went with rj and Trimble over EC.

Because Trimble has more size and is a better defender and slightly better drive and score threat than ec for now. EC is better passer and better at pushing tempo but Clemson wa keeping Heels from running today anyway.
Good observation. And I’ll add that if and when EC can shoot at least dangerous enough for the defense to have to guard him, then we’ll be dangerous enough to beat anyone at anytime.
 
Cadeaux being subbed out so quick was due to his 2 quick fouls in the first 4 minutes. The young man has got to get his silly fouls under control. Way too much swiping at the ball or jumping into shooters.
You are correct --- so allow me to make that additional mitigating note: I didn't have sound so I didn't realize that they gave that first foul to EC, so yes, his time was also hampered by early foul trouble, but the point remains --- whether by him staying away from ticky-tack fouls or adjusting the general sub pattern, we need more consecutive run minutes with the EC/RJ backcourt to be at our most productive.

Also, to the original point of teams swarming RJ at Point, I believe he was 3-3 from the field playing with Cadeau, and 2-10 without. We can't keep asking too much from our most dynamic scorer.
 
...and we did enough to overcome.

I don't want to start here, but I will: We survived a HORRIFICALLY reffed 1st half, as well as some things that were self-inflicted (both on the floor and from the bench) and showed considerable grit.


- On the positive side, other than some missed rotations and/or switch recoveries, our defense carried the day in what again, devolved into a rock-fight. I'm gonna start with our boy Armando F***ing Bacot. Mando catches flack from fans (sometimes deservedly) on the offensive end, but lemme tell ya -- what y'all saw today was as fine a defensive performance by a 5-man as you'll ever witness.


- I'm probably not gonna mention everyone (don't @ me),but I like that Hubert has stayed committed to a deep rotation (we went 10 today). It pays off over time.

- Finally, I have to point out something that just won't hunt in the long run. We came out of the gate on the road playing Carolina basketball and scored 11 points in exactly 4 minutes. Then, as has been the norm, out goes Cadeau and we instantly get pulled into a clunky half-court game.
1. Just enough but I'll take it.
2. Thank God the fouls evened out in the 2nd half, and we had the advantage. And there was nothing that clown Brownell could do but watch. He knows his A$$ got away with murder in the 1st half.
3. Mando was big again today. Excellent footwork on both ends and he dominated PJ. That look on his face when he fouled out said it all.
4. We would avg 85+ if he did this and PUSHED the pace.
5. Speaking of "pushing the pace". I just don't believe it will happen on a consistent basis under Hubert. He can say it to the media and yeah we will have flashes here and there but we will have more half-court "rock fights" than the REAL Carolina Way of running teams in the submission with him.
----->The "Hubert Way" is what we better get used to. Half-court sets, twisting his fingers, running around in circles, ROCK FIGHTS with teams we should beat by 20+
 
EC looked a little frustrated (good) but a little pouty to me towards the end of the game timeouts. Certainly don't want to start any more "body language" conversations after last year, but I agree with everyone that we are going to be very dangerous once EC can stay on the floor and maybe even develop his shooting chops
 
Defense impressed me today. Made me more of a believer UNC can win games 65-60 ugly in March.

I do think Clemson had a pretty uncommon like 7% 3PT shooting game. But the way some of our opponents have shot FTs against us, we were due for the percentage to go our way.

I also still think our upside is pretty connected to Cadeau. So I’ll say this about him (and everyone particularly starters)…

PROTECT YOUR FIRST FOUL!!! Your value being on the floor is (I would bet) ALWAYS more important than you committing a foul the first four minutes of the game. PROTECT YOUR FIRST FOUL!!!!

I also though Hall getting an early 1st foul took him out of rhythm a bit. Brownell subbed him out a couple of times and I think it affected him. He seemed more rushed all game today.
 
We won a grind it out game, We had Clemson down by 5 points it seems forever. To see us stretch it out to 10 points during the close was impressive.

EC is still coming along, but the way RJ is scoring, and Trimble being an asset it is not hurting us while he is growing.

So many lineups we can throw at people, it is fun to watch, but frustrating when a lineup that was great yesterday is not great today. Washington and Withers are example of guys that play extremely well against certain teams. Withers plays well against teams that bully, and Washington plays well against finesse Centers.

Bacot is really a team player, he probably is our most efficient offense player, but it can turn into a black hole for us when the game slows down that much.

Ryan Cormac is my favorite transfer, he could is playing his sniper role to perfection.
 
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A rock fight, yeah, it was that for sure!

First while Sheffler did consistently go over the back and it was not called, bottom line was he whipped Ingram, he just plain ole out worked him. 240lbs stuffed in a 6'8" body and plays with a really strong motor, Ingram was out matched. Second, I shared before this game that Cadeau staying out of first half foul trouble was a key, well that didn't happen and to make it even worse he picked up #3 in under 4mins of the second. Really, I think it is time for some coaching, love to see Hubert tell him, when you pick up your first foul in the first half, I am pulling you for the rest of the half. He just has to learn, even if you consider his fouls to be a lot of tic tack stuff, still just can not risk it.

Ok, enough of the bad stuff, time to talk about the good stuff! Great to see Ryan's shot dropping, he got solid squared and went up on balance for those, that extra work may be paying off, hope that ankle is not serious. RJ had a solid game, have to understand, Pitt flash doubled RJ and so did Clemson, made him have to work double hard to get to his spots. It was good to see that he didn't put up many bad shots out of frustration. Jalen came off the bench and gave us decent minutes, hit a couple baskets that we really needed. Felt High came in and gave us some motor, sure he picked up some fouls quick but he played physical while he was in there and was a nice change of pace guy. Withers, IMO he has now strung together 3 straight games where he not only has played his best for us but in each game he looks better to me. I think this was the best he has played for us. Ingram (my opinion maybe his worst game for us) could not handle Sheffler, couldn't even block him out but Wit did a pretty solid job. Paxon finally hit a jump shot...

Seth, sure, he hit a trey, good but the work he put in on Girard was really good, Girard was what 1 for 11 and just didn't get decent looks with Seth draped al lover him. But the player of this game was our big man, Amondo Bacot! LOOK at his box score looks really good, what 14pts, 16 boards, 2 blocks, 3 assists (yeah, you read that right Bacot had 3 assists) framed against 1 single TO. Now that is enough to impress anyone but maybe the best part of his play today was that he held PJ Hall to 10pts on 4-13 shots and 5 boards before he fouled out. 4 of 13 shots, he only got 13 shots, Mondo was on him so hard he forced him to give the ball up! Just a monster game from Bacot, ACC player of the week type performance! We win this game because of the work Mondo put in today!

IN this trio of road games, 2 down and the wuffies are on the clock, lets make it a hat trick!
 
1. Just enough but I'll take it.
2. Thank God the fouls evened out in the 2nd half, and we had the advantage. And there was nothing that clown Brownell could do but watch. He knows his A$$ got away with murder in the 1st half.
3. Mando was big again today. Excellent footwork on both ends and he dominated PJ. That look on his face when he fouled out said it all.
4. We would avg 85+ if he did this and PUSHED the pace.
5. Speaking of "pushing the pace". I just don't believe it will happen on a consistent basis under Hubert. He can say it to the media and yeah we will have flashes here and there but we will have more half-court "rock fights" than the REAL Carolina Way of running teams in the submission with him.
----->The "Hubert Way" is what we better get used to. Half-court sets, twisting his fingers, running around in circles, ROCK FIGHTS with teams we should beat by 20+
We should beat a top 20 Clemson team at their place by 20+? Until EC stops getting in foul trouble we won’t play at the usual Carolina pace
 
We should beat a top 20 Clemson team at their place by 20+? Until EC stops getting in foul trouble we won’t play at the usual Carolina pace
I agree EC has got to stay out of foul trouble, but Clemson by 20 at their place? Clemson's hard nose style will keep most games 80 or below (It is just there style). EC would definitely help in forcing pace, but win by 20 would be a beat down, and I don't see Clemson getting beat down.
 
Defense impressed me today. Made me more of a believer UNC can win games 65-60 ugly in March.

I do think Clemson had a pretty uncommon like 7% 3PT shooting game. But the way some of our opponents have shot FTs against us, we were due for the percentage to go our way.

I also still think our upside is pretty connected to Cadeau. So I’ll say this about him (and everyone particularly starters)…

PROTECT YOUR FIRST FOUL!!! Your value being on the floor is (I would bet) ALWAYS more important than you committing a foul the first four minutes of the game. PROTECT YOUR FIRST FOUL!!!!

I also though Hall getting an early 1st foul took him out of rhythm a bit. Brownell subbed him out a couple of times and I think it affected him. He seemed more rushed all game today.
I believe Bacot had a lot to do with Hall looking rushed, Mondo was all up in his grill! LOL I did like our defense outside of what ever Ingram was doing. Not really fair for me to say that, Ingram gave up a good bit of weight and I think some length in that matchup but he got out worked bad.

I agree, Cadeau does give us our best game in that he sets the tempo really hot, without him, as gary has shared, RJ keeps us in a half court game and that is not our best tempo at all.
 
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I agree EC has got to stay out of foul trouble, but Clemson by 20 at their place? Clemson's hard nose style will keep most games 80 or below (It is just there style). EC would definitely help in forcing pace, but win by 20 would be a beat down, and I don't see Clemson getting beat down.
I agree with you, I was disagreeing with fla Tar Heel saying Hubert’s style is rock fights with teams we should beat by 20+
 
Clemson got tired halfway in the second half, their shots were short and Hall looked gassed. Fortunately, the fouls were called, UNC got some good looks to fall and the Heels pulled ahead. Gritty win.

QA112
 
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This was one of the ugliest UNC games I've seen all year and could just as soon been played on a Baltimore street court without any refs as in a NCAAMBB arena with the zoo crew the ACC assignrd to this mess .. it was that bad. But what Hubs has been stressing about toughness and "manning up" to physicality showed up today and that's what won this game ... and is likely a product of our ooc pre-season schedule and it's one of the most positive things I have seen so far this season !! To win sometimes you have to win ugly and thats exactly what we did today.

Big shout out to MANdo for his total nuetralization of Hall all over the floor. I have been one of Bacot's biggest offensive critics but today he earned his stripes on D bigtime. Good job big fella.

It's good to see some heart and GRIT coming back to a UNC TEAM and there's no doubt this was a team win. Let's close out this 3 game road swing with a win and a pasting of the whiff pack. GO HEELS !!
 
Nice win... I would like to see HD half or full court press more frequently to push pace. These grind it out games are not a great watch and, other than RJ, we don't have alot of shot creators.

Speaking of body language...anyone else notice Bacot throw his hands up when he doesn't get a post entry? It seems to happen most often when Ingram doesn't dump it down. Probably not a big deal just don't love seeing it.
 
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That was one of the best tandem defensive efforts by Mondo and Trimble that I have seen in a long time.
Trimble’s ability to lock down an opposing shooter is amazing
Bacot’s engagement on the defensive end was the difference in the game. He STONED Hall and frustrated the mess out of him.
RJ being hounded by two peeps helped the rest of the team have solid games. Props to him for not forcing too much.

Ingram’s wrist getting healthy will hopefully help him return to form as a shooter. This was the first game I have seen him get outplayed by his opponent.
Still frustrating how often we miss Bacot’s post ups… or send them too late for great positioning.
 
Nice win... I would like to see HD half or full court press more frequently to push pace. These grind it out games are not a great watch and, other than RJ, we don't have alot of shot creators.

Speaking of body language...anyone else notice Bacot throw his hands up when he doesn't get a post entry? It seems to happen most often when Ingram doesn't dump it down. Probably not a big deal just don't love seeing it.
Well, as for missed post entries, there were a few in which Mando had his guy pinned deep with no help in the second half and yes, our guys missed him, and Hubert was jumping up and down on the sideline about it, so I don't blame either one of them, as I too was hollering "get it to him!" from about 150 miles south of Clemson ;)...
 
Welp... State beat UVA by 16.
The difference was 10 3's for State vs 5 for UVA. The rest of the team stats were almost even down the line. UVA will give up the 3, and State hit 10-28.
The stat line doesn't scare me, I still don't think State will score well enough to beat us on Wednesday. We need to dominate inside again.
 
Fwiw, Ingram has really struggled on non-spot up 3’s lately. I think he’s like 2-19 on 2PTers the last 3 games and he isn’t someone who will shoot long 2’s. So he’s struggling from close range 2’s.

I honestly don’t love him posting up. I know he’s a physical specimen but he’s kind of a clunky athlete so I don’t think an iso post up is great offense. That’s how I view it. I know people will disagree with me. He’s down to 43% on 2’s this year. Fortunately he’s knocking down 3’s.

But I’m a bit worried about him. Hopefully it’s just a minor dip and he’ll figure it out. He’s obviously contributing in other ways.
 
The difference was 10 3's for State vs 5 for UVA. The rest of the team stats were almost even down the line. UVA will give up the 3, and State hit 10-28.
The stat line doesn't scare me, I still don't think State will score well enough to beat us on Wednesday. We need to dominate inside again.
Not saying we will beat west Raleigh…But this team that we have is tested and tough…Should be fun…
 
Fwiw, Ingram has really struggled on non-spot up 3’s lately. I think he’s like 2-19 on 2PTers the last 3 games and he isn’t someone who will shoot long 2’s. So he’s struggling from close range 2’s.

I honestly don’t love him posting up. I know he’s a physical specimen but he’s kind of a clunky athlete so I don’t think an iso post up is great offense. That’s how I view it. I know people will disagree with me. He’s down to 43% on 2’s this year. Fortunately he’s knocking down 3’s.

But I’m a bit worried about him. Hopefully it’s just a minor dip and he’ll figure it out. He’s obviously contributing in other ways.
You do know he is hurt with his wrist…
 
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Thanks for the write up Gary, and the observations everyone. I just watched the replay and I'm super impressed with the Heels' ability to come through in their second slug-fest in a row.

Easy to see Ingram isn't 100% and it's affecting his confidence. I hope he gets the rest he needs and is firing again for the stretch run.
EC is his own worst enemy at the moment.... a foul 20" into the game is not clever play. He is a real talent and I believe he will work it out.
Thankfully RJ and Seth are able to hold the fort for stretches, with Cormac or Paxson but EC on the court more is most ideal.
As everyone pointed out.... best game by Mando in a while - defence was rock solid.
Would like to see more plays getting JWash free for that short jumper - it is a beautiful stroke.

Only additional observation: Having the student section on the sidelines must make for good atmosphere, but the TV announcers microphones also picked up some 'interesting' additional comments.... lets say, the thuggery on the floor was, at times, matched by the aggro of the cheering.
 
Fwiw, Ingram has really struggled on non-spot up 3’s lately. I think he’s like 2-19 on 2PTers the last 3 games and he isn’t someone who will shoot long 2’s. So he’s struggling from close range 2’s.

I honestly don’t love him posting up. I know he’s a physical specimen but he’s kind of a clunky athlete so I don’t think an iso post up is great offense. That’s how I view it. I know people will disagree with me. He’s down to 43% on 2’s this year. Fortunately he’s knocking down 3’s.

But I’m a bit worried about him. Hopefully it’s just a minor dip and he’ll figure it out. He’s obviously contributing in other ways.
It’s probably note worthy that there wasn’t much tape on him from the last couple years. He came out guns blazin and posting up guys with backing them down. Words out and he’s been scouted. You can see guys coming to help more and more. I think he’ll be fine and like you said he’s definitely helping in other ways.
 
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Defense has been stout lately. Cadeau has got to figure out how to play solid aggressive type dee without fouling, he ain't there yet. He has the want to, but not the savvy yet with his size to play with position.

Ingram is the x factor. He is the fulcrum on how this team will go. Great road win.
 
TL; DR 😂
Agreed we have a non foul/injury limited 4 big minute guys. A split minute 5th, and two 6 to 10 minute bench guys after that. The others sit or play 2 or 3 minutes.

The core 4 are going to play 33 and up if healthy if not having to sit from fouls
 
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