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Quick stuff (Wake game)...

gary-7

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Jan 27, 2003
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...and this one should've never been this close.

- It was obvious Roy's point of emphasis this week has been a) getting the ball inside, and b) having our Bigs make quicker/more decisive moves. That's all well and good until you start telegraphing it, or it comes at the expense of off-ball movement. In the halfcourt game there was too much getting-it-in-and-standing-around almost from the tip, and good grief at some of the brain-dean and/or telegraphed entries in the Secondary.

- It was also obvious Roy thought this game might be a last op to work on Freelance, but it didn't look much if any better, and when the game remained close the set plays came to the rescue. See below.

- Lots of open misses but more decisive movement of ball and men could've made those ops better. Again, see below.

- Whether or not eyes glaze over, there's a reason I harp on effort and personnel continuity. Basketball is an often-improvised team game and knowing/anticipating/trusting what your teammates are doing cannot be oversold --- and that goes for BOTH ends of the floor. Our 20, 30 and 40 defenses are all predicated in not only doing your job, but trusting your teammates are gonna be where they need to be. And obviously, player movement is key in our Freelance offense. In fact, the mere act of moving/being in the right place can be key to the offense functioning, even if you never touch the ball on a given possession. Some of that is as simple as effort,.. and as for effort, again, the lack thereof shows on both ends. We put Wake in a position for an upset with lack of all of the above in the first half.

- the first 5 minutes of the second half showed what improved effort can gain --- and I'm sure was prompted by some vigorous halftime coaching. Unfortunately, we went back into lulls, as well as some low-IQ episodes. Reinvogorated effort helped pull thru at the end. That said, it was close enough to sweat because we never got the continuity thing right.

- The BB-IQ issues popping up still notwithstanding, Caleb is starting to showcase more of his abilities and good to see him have a big scoring night, and despite not always knowing when discretion is called for, he showed some very strong defensive effort.

- I won't even bother to talk about the uncalled Wake walks in the paint, as that's still no excuse for piss-poor defense on their drive-and-kick game.

Anyway, sorry if there aren't more positives here, because frankly, that outing is a loss against pretty much every other ACC team. Make no mistake, we have the ingredients to be pretty good and deep, but those ingredients must all learn to expend effort consistently and together, and they must be blended with more of a purpose that accentuates their strengths and covers their weaknesses. Let's hope that happens going forward...
 
I felt like the most of the second half was one of our better outings this year! Love and Davis was solid, getting better.
 
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Wake Forest have beat Delaware St., Longwood, and Catawba. They are 0 for everyone else. They looked every bit that bad of a team. Not the performance I was hoping to see as a breakout against that caliber of opponent.
 
Thanks Gary for the overview.

Seriously...., I had doubts about us being able to win this one after that 1st half performance. I think that Bacot was singled out by the officials for fouls as well. He did commit several fouls, but 2 of his 4 were a result of good acting by the WF guys. Michael Stevens is just a horrid official who has to make a call regardless of the validity every 2-3 times down the court. He needs to go back out to the Mid-West.

Was good to see Roy get fired up for a change. That OOB call in the 1st half was incorrect, none of our guys touched it. In the second half, Roy almost hit a young lady manager with his water bottle that he threw when Caleb turned the ball over on the DD. Speaking of Caleb, overall he had a good game, but still makes the silly mistakes that makes one cringe, (ie.) throwing a pass at Walton's feet, driving too fast and deep in the post, posturing after good plays and not calling the defense...that's a no no guys and it really pissed Roy off and on the second drive and dunk, Caleb immediately held a fist up to call the defense, as he evidently got the message from the bench.

A good PG has to be attuned to his and his opponents surroundings at all times on the court, and he is learning this. Without his contribution we don't win though. So, I guess it all evened out in the end. We still look a little disjointed on both ends, but to my eyes we are making progress albeit minute game over game.

Leaky had a great stat line. Sharpe has hit the freshman wall, that's normal, he will work his way out of the less than stellar play that he is capable of in the next few games. The learning curve is starting to flatten a little. RJ had one of his best games to date I thought. I liked our trapping defense at times, as it produced some TO's that we really needed. Garrison did not play well overall, and got 0 RB's in the 2nd half although I believe the stats showed he still led us in rebounding?

Would've liked to see us hit more of our FT's and guard the 3 point line a little better.
That one WF guy had hit 4 total 3's for the year and hits 7 against our defense?
There has to be a correlation somewhere with that I think.

Well... it's a win and we have NCSU up Saturday, so I hope we have some 3 pt. defense somewhere in our toolbox huh?
 
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I just remember Wake hitting almost every 3-point shot!

UNC was lucky to win that game! This team is a little less frustrating to watch than last year's team.
 
Michael Stevens is just a horrid official
Was good to see Roy get fired up for a change.
Leaky had a great stat line.
Well... it's a win and we have NCSU up Saturday, so I hope we have some 3 pt. defense somewhere in our toolbox huh?
1. Stephens. After that godawful "charge" call on the flop on the block I said to my buddy, "Who is that little f***ing ref with the mask? Prolly Stephens." mm hmm...

2. Roy. Yes... letting the zebras hear about their bad calls has been curiously overdue.

3. Leaky. I'm sure you noticed Roy ran a first-possession set play to Leaky (of all people) for a 3 from the key. He missed, but I really liked that as a coaching move to instill some confidence in a player. Seemed to work as he got off to a good start.

4. State. Our 3 defense against them had BETTER start with drive defense (the lane should be off-limits for any opposing Guard)... and then guys not losing reach of their man in Help. But then, back to that continuity thing...
 
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1. There's always that one guy against us when we play teams like this, and tonight it was Daivien in the 1st half and Mucius in the 2nd half.:confused:

2. Hitting the 80 mark after that 1st half just shows how potent this team has the potential to be. This same team next year would average 90pts a game and cut the nets down.

3. With Caleb and RJ at this point we have to take the bad with the good, and each game will be an adventure. One possession will be a game changing play, the next will make you lose your religion. Overall....33pts, 3asst, 4stls, 3blks, 4TOs.

4. TH75 mentioned the "freshman wall". I couldn't agree more, Sharpe has looked awful since the ND game, other than the 2 big FTs he hit against 'Cuse. How many experts around here still thinks he should be starting in front of Brooks or Bacot.:rolleyes:

5. Mike Stevens knows we hate him and he does this crap trying to push RW to the point of getting a T. He's one the worst refs in the college game. The fact that the ACC brought that SOB to this league shows how much the head guy Bryan Kersey still hates us.
 
Wake Forest have beat Delaware St., Longwood, and Catawba. They are 0 for everyone else. They looked every bit that bad of a team. Not the performance I was hoping to see as a breakout against that caliber of opponent.

In their defense, go take a look at the 6 games they have lost in conference. All fairly close. The WF coach is a better than average coach, he just doesn't have the parts he needs, Once he does, his team will be a real thorn in the sides of the ACC teams.
 
Well Wake left with the moral victory I was willing to accept. I guess part of that freshman learning curve is playing down to the opponent's level, as others stated this game should not have been close. Love may be more frustrating than Lawson to Roy. He makes a stupid decision to drive into the lane and take on 3 but then hustles to get the rebound and and gets an and one. 20 points is nice but letting the other pg get 27 offsets it. The spurts of consistency seem to be getting longer but still a LONG way to go.

Can someone more knowledgeable explain why UNC played 3 bigs together? I know Wake was somehow staying even on the boards but that did not work. Brooks had some ridiculous fouls trying to close out on guys, a senior has to know better. Black had 8 assists and 6 rebounds to go with his 8 points - we need that Theo-like stat line from him. At the end of a day it's a W but one of those W's that give you a lot of stuff to work on.

Finally, if Roy is gonna play deep into the bench, especially first half, why not start the game with the full court D. Love really seems to play better in that than a traditional half court D, and it appears that playing that way may help create more of a hectic pace that can get the Heels in transition. I LOVED the fast break scoring last night, actually looked like UNC basketball.
 
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Disclosure, I did not see the first half and from the comments here don't think I want to? LOL But my perception of this game is driven by the second half for that reason. What strikes me is that the half I did see was a 50pt half, great UNC teams can hang 50 in a half on ACC opponents, weak UNC teams do not hang 50 on ACC opponents so in that I saw a flash of what may be in our future. Granted, that is not a great opponent but they are still an ACC team and they have a couple guys that can sure stroke it when they get heated up. They hit some really long treys that allowed them to stay in striking distance and while a few of them were really open looks they were long attempts while others were decently guarded. As I shared about another game we had, when they have to hit treys 5ft from the arch just to hang with you, at some point those treys will not drop and that occurred as well. My point is I did feel our defense was better at least for the half I watched and Wake had what, 32 or so in the first half, that is not a great showing by them either.

Good bit of full court at least token pressure from us, and that seemed to disrupt Wake's half court offense, when they scored it seemed they had to out side of the flow, lot of forced last second type stuff, that indicates your defense is a problem for them.

Nice to see Love getting a solid game in but for me his scoring takes a back seat to his limiting his TOs, only 1 I saw was when he went brain dead at the end as Wake seemed ready to call off the dogs and Love just got way to casual looking to drain out the clock but that one really didn't matter, he had 3 total and 2 of those came in the first minute or 2 per Roy's PC? By far the most clean game from him in that respect and his defense looked pretty darn stout, especially in 1 stretch. Being honest, we needed his points but I did feel he went to the rim to much, at least he went looking for contact but if you have to go against multiple defenders then maybe the better plan is pull it back out and reload so I didn't love that decision making.

Bacot was solid but he had a strong physical advantage inside, was glad to see the ref call a flop warning on a Bacot defender because they were flopping a lot when our bigs got the ball. Have yet to see the box score and know wake was ahead of us rebounding at the half but I think we well passed them in the second half. Don't know about the 1st but did wake miss a darn free throw in that second half, after that FSU game, darn, opponents are not missing a ton at the line.

RJ, Love had to big score totals from last night but RJ in my view has progressed more as a PG, he is starting to get it, just seems like we are so much smoother than Love at the point. He is not driving in to the teeth of defenses like he did early on and Love still does to much of that for my taste. This kid could be something after an off season with Jonas and some dedicated ball handling work. Only saw a cameo from Ant in that second half but rack him up another steal and that steal turned in to fast break points. Leaky had a solid game on the offensive end, hit a really confident looking trey and had no hesitation in taking the shot, big time assist numbers.

Over all, yet again, I saw progression, if we can continue to build and progress each game as we have since Roy changed the lineup then later season we can be very hard to take on. The next step IMO is when we get a team on the ropes, we need to run them out of the gym, finish them off early! We had a nice 10 or 11pt lead and 3 empty trips by us combined with 3 treys by them and all the sudden your double digit lead is a single point. That is the point in a game where you either give back your lead or you bury the other team, we now need to learn to bury them because we have this habit of giving up those key point in the game leads that make us have drama at the end.

On to the wuffs again, a game I look forward to! Roy lite in to them after the last game vs the wuffs, suspect we may have a pissed off bunch of Tar Heel players looking for pay back Saturday. IN a season where we have not played at our typical UNC level we played our worst game of the season vs the wuffs and we still had a lot of opportunity to get that win. Don't look for that to happen Sat, I think we beat them by double digits, I know Roy has "special feelings" for beating the wuffs and I think his team now fully understands what is expected of them when they play the wuffs, I think we will see some of that sat, can't wait for it!
 
Disclosure, I did not see the first half and from the comments here don't think I want to? LOL But my perception of this game is driven by the second half for that reason. What strikes me is that the half I did see was a 50pt half, great UNC teams can hang 50 in a half on ACC opponents, weak UNC teams do not hang 50 on ACC opponents so in that I saw a flash of what may be in our future. Granted, that is not a great opponent but they are still an ACC team and they have a couple guys that can sure stroke it when they get heated up. They hit some really long treys that allowed them to stay in striking distance and while a few of them were really open looks they were long attempts while others were decently guarded. As I shared about another game we had, when they have to hit treys 5ft from the arch just to hang with you, at some point those treys will not drop and that occurred as well. My point is I did feel our defense was better at least for the half I watched and Wake had what, 32 or so in the first half, that is not a great showing by them either.

Good bit of full court at least token pressure from us, and that seemed to disrupt Wake's half court offense, when they scored it seemed they had to out side of the flow, lot of forced last second type stuff, that indicates your defense is a problem for them.

Nice to see Love getting a solid game in but for me his scoring takes a back seat to his limiting his TOs, only 1 I saw was when he went brain dead at the end as Wake seemed ready to call off the dogs and Love just got way to casual looking to drain out the clock but that one really didn't matter, he had 3 total and 2 of those came in the first minute or 2 per Roy's PC? By far the most clean game from him in that respect and his defense looked pretty darn stout, especially in 1 stretch. Being honest, we needed his points but I did feel he went to the rim to much, at least he went looking for contact but if you have to go against multiple defenders then maybe the better plan is pull it back out and reload so I didn't love that decision making.

Bacot was solid but he had a strong physical advantage inside, was glad to see the ref call a flop warning on a Bacot defender because they were flopping a lot when our bigs got the ball. Have yet to see the box score and know wake was ahead of us rebounding at the half but I think we well passed them in the second half. Don't know about the 1st but did wake miss a darn free throw in that second half, after that FSU game, darn, opponents are not missing a ton at the line.

RJ, Love had to big score totals from last night but RJ in my view has progressed more as a PG, he is starting to get it, just seems like we are so much smoother than Love at the point. He is not driving in to the teeth of defenses like he did early on and Love still does to much of that for my taste. This kid could be something after an off season with Jonas and some dedicated ball handling work. Only saw a cameo from Ant in that second half but rack him up another steal and that steal turned in to fast break points. Leaky had a solid game on the offensive end, hit a really confident looking trey and had no hesitation in taking the shot, big time assist numbers.

Over all, yet again, I saw progression, if we can continue to build and progress each game as we have since Roy changed the lineup then later season we can be very hard to take on. The next step IMO is when we get a team on the ropes, we need to run them out of the gym, finish them off early! We had a nice 10 or 11pt lead and 3 empty trips by us combined with 3 treys by them and all the sudden your double digit lead is a single point. That is the point in a game where you either give back your lead or you bury the other team, we now need to learn to bury them because we have this habit of giving up those key point in the game leads that make us have drama at the end.

On to the wuffs again, a game I look forward to! Roy lite in to them after the last game vs the wuffs, suspect we may have a pissed off bunch of Tar Heel players looking for pay back Saturday. IN a season where we have not played at our typical UNC level we played our worst game of the season vs the wuffs and we still had a lot of opportunity to get that win. Don't look for that to happen Sat, I think we beat them by double digits, I know Roy has "special feelings" for beating the wuffs and I think his team now fully understands what is expected of them when they play the wuffs, I think we will see some of that sat, can't wait for it!
As long as they play as a pissed off team this weekend and not a collection of individuals I would expect a win.
 
I know we don't look great right now, and honestly they frustrate the hell out of me, but I really like this team. If everyone that should stay actually stays, then next year we should be back to Carolina basketball. We may even get there before the end of this year. Go Heels!
 
We are at the Mercy of the 3 ball, if the other team hits 40 percent or better there's trouble, If they go 3-16 we beat them badly..
 
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I know we don't look great right now, and honestly they frustrate the hell out of me, but I really like this team. If everyone that should stay actually stays, then next year we should be back to Carolina basketball. We may even get there before the end of this year. Go Heels!
I’ve thought this several times as well as everyone else probably. I really don’t see anyone leaving early.
 
Noticed how far Wake played off Kessler and Sharpe when either was on the perimeter, daring them to shoot a jumper. Kessler took one jumper and looked awful. I have been disappointed with Kessler. Thought he would be more able to contribute right away.
 
IMO the THREE is the key to whomever we play. Last night after the game Roy pointed out that #1 LAst night Micius?? was 6 of 24 from the three this year. last night?? he burned us with 50%from 3 Go explain it and frankly it wasn't all BAD D.I just think we as a team as a blue Blood just elevate guys game who play us.Guys WANT to beat us SO bad that they play at a higher level. yeah our D isbad at times but guys just get Extra motivated to play and BEAT Carolina
 
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He is on perfect track to me, Gets a Little game time, and a lot of practice versus Stronger Players than he is..
 
IMO the THREE is the key to whomever we play. Last night after the game Roy pointed out that #1 LAst night Micius?? was 6 of 24 from the three this year. last night?? he burned us with 50%from 3 Go explain it and frankly it wasn't all BAD D.I just think we as a team as a blue Blood just elevate guys game who play us.Guys WANT to beat us SO bad that they play at a higher level. yeah our D isbad at times but guys just get Extra motivated to play and BEAT Carolina

He was 6 of 24 Because the Other team covered him, this collapsing down and race to prevent the 3 point shooter is a Dinosaur Defense Pre Golden State Warriors 3 Jacking Parade.
 
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He was 6 of 24 Because the Other team covered him, this collapsing down and race to prevent the 3 point shooter is a Dinosaur Defense Pre Golden State Warriors 3 Jacking Parade.

Yeah, I will admit that teams shoot well against us because of the style of defense we play. But I am not against that style. We just need players to understand when and how far to collapse so that they can get back to contest. When we have good experienced players, we're fine. When we don't, we struggle to defend the 3. So some of y'all would prefer Roy change his defense to accommodate the personnel. I'm more in the camp of make sure we have the personnel to play the way Roy wants.
 
He is on perfect track to me, Gets a Little game time, and a lot of practice versus Stronger Players than he is..
He is getting a little game time but has so far not looked all that good in that limited time, IMO. Kessler is the #14 ranked player coming in. As a freshman I expected his contribution to be a little bit more than what he has been so far. That's all. Your point is understood about future development. Most 5 stars are usually more suited to be more ready right away. I am of course optimistic he will get stronger and overall game a lot more refined and effective.
 
IMO I think kess could end up being a great player for us. Remember, Roy is old fashioned and his bigs play around the basket. I get it, but shooting is earned a lot of times and with a crowd of bigs to compete with he is not asked to do a lot. Roy is traditionally and probably won’t change even if he can hit form a far. Heck, brooks is just now shooting a few threes. And he’s a freshman.
 
He will be fine, you can't throw a Team of Freshmen on the floor like that and not expect this.. If Joel Berry was the Point guard all of these Bigs would go Pro this year..
 
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IMO the THREE is the key to whomever we play. Last night after the game Roy pointed out that #1 LAst night Micius?? was 6 of 24 from the three this year. last night?? he burned us with 50%from 3 Go explain it and frankly it wasn't all BAD D.I just think we as a team as a blue Blood just elevate guys game who play us.Guys WANT to beat us SO bad that they play at a higher level. yeah our D isbad at times but guys just get Extra motivated to play and BEAT Carolina

Our opposing 3-pt % is 35.8%; D-1 average is ~33.3%, though we play better than average teams. I think if that effect exists at all, it's quite small. Bigger issue is 41.1% of shots against us our threes, 276th in D-1. That's mostly due to scheme. We haven't ranked above #250 in that metric since 2015-2016.
 
Bigger issue is 41.1% of shots against us our threes, 276th in D-1. That's mostly due to scheme. We haven't ranked above #250 in that metric since 2015-2016.
And therein lies the rub, as Bill said. Teams shoot more treys against us because they know our defense will give up good looks from beyond the arc. They know it and are taking full advantage of it.

We’re daring teams to beat us from outside, and they are. Teams are packing in and daring us to beat them from long distance, yet we simply can’t because we shoot so poorly. That makes it harder for our guards to get penetration and makes post entry passes much more difficult.

To date, we haven’t made enough treys to force them to come out and guard our perimeter players honestly. Until we do, our offense is going to struggle.

We can shoot better than we’ve shown so far. I’ve believe it’s now become a mental thing.
 
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