Roy's comments today on "negative recruiting"...

[keysersosay#1]

Anyone who claims that teams have not been using the "scandal" to trash us and negative recruit against us need to listen to the presser today with Roy.

Starting at about the ten minute mark Roy expresses real exasperation at what he and the staff have had to deal with over the last 4 years. It is the WORST he has ever seen and he strongly believes No school has had to endure the attacks from the usual suspects that Carolina has had to deal with. The Gottlieb remarks were, in Roy/s eyes, a further bit of crap that just adds to the constant and immense negative stuff he and staff have had to deal with since 2012.

It is obvious to me that the NCAA has been dragging its feet to HURT our recruiting and the tactic has worked. The doochies, the woofies ,the kittycats hell ALL of them have been using this as a sword to attack UNC and it has been effective. In an earlier statement Roy estimated that this whole thing and the negative attacks have cost us at least 6 top line players.

 

[Grayhead]

What can the university do at this point. They rolled over and showed their belly. Unfortunately, roy is in a bad place. In the twilight of his career and has to deal with this for four years now. This year may truely be his last shot at a natty. Even if cleared we are still several years away from potentially being back on top of the recruiting game. Guess that's why I felt this year is the year to prove them all wrong. Make those 6 recruits regret not listening to roy.

 

[2DDIMOND]

What can the university do at this point. They rolled over and showed their belly. Unfortunately, roy is in a bad place. In the twilight of his career and has to deal with this for four years now. This year may truely be his last shot at a natty. Even if cleared we are still several years away from potentially being back on top of the recruiting game. Guess that's why I felt this year is the year to prove them all wrong. Make those 6 recruits regret not listening to roy.

I completely disagree with this, I don't think we are going to have a drop off in talent. Roy is still getting top level guys, & maybe the guys we get will have good team chemistry. The "family" atmosphere is conducive to that. & maybe a guy like a Woods brings that bulldog tenacity we've missed, and need. We don't have to get 3 of the top 20 recruits every year. I choose to be optimistic, not only for this year, but the future too. I am a firm believer in justice (not Winslow), and believe that both shades of blue will get their due......in time.

 

[gary-7]

Anyone who claims that teams have not been using the "scandal" to trash us and negative recruit against us need to listen to the presser today with Roy.

Starting at about the ten minute mark Roy expresses real exasperation at what he and the staff have had to deal with over the last 4 years. It is the WORST he has ever seen and he strongly believes No school has had to endure the attacks from the usual suspects that Carolina has had to deal with. The Gottlieb remarks were, in Roy/s eyes, a further bit of crap that just adds to the constant and immense negative stuff he and staff have had to deal with since 2012.

It is obvious to me that the NCAA has been dragging its feet to HURT our recruiting and the tactic has worked. The doochies, the woofies ,the kittycats hell ALL of them have been using this as a sword to attack UNC and it has been effective. In an earlier statement Roy estimated that this whole thing and the negative attacks have cost us at least 6 top line players.

Yep... yet still there are some folks on this board who doubt those of us who report this trashing. SMH.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

And keep throwing up post

"What is wrong with our recruiting?"

"Why can't Roy get top talent anymore?"

"The Elites no longer consider us Blue Bloods"

on and on and on .............................

 

[gteeitup]

or "the ncaa purposely avoids punishment to hurt carolina recruiting"

lol, yeah, okay...

 

[mikeirbyusa]

or "the ncaa purposely avoids punishment to hurt carolina recruiting"

lol, yeah, okay...

smh

 

[heels05champs]

The ncaa is only a part of why recruiting dipped. Carolina has a perception that it's not a one and done program and therefore, top talent goes where they'll be showcased.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

The ncaa is only a part of why recruiting dipped. Carolina has a perception that it's not a one and done program and therefore, top talent goes where they'll be showcased.

Need to go around and ask several of these guys how that's working out for them riding the pine at some of these "0ne-done U's".

 

[gteeitup]

anyone that believes the ncaa is purposely killing unc recruiting by delaying any sort of punishment must also explain why the hated sec schools are clearly maximizing the gray yet are not punished.

do you guys ever wonder why alabama and the like aren't punished?...what about kentucky basketball?

please don't tell me carolina is hated by the ncaa...if you believe that, then not even a doctor can help.

now, if you want to say the ncaa as a whole is horrendously run, yes, i buy that.

 

[tarheel0910]

anyone that believes the ncaa is purposely killing unc recruiting by delaying any sort of punishment must also explain why the hated sec schools are clearly maximizing the gray yet are not punished.

do you guys ever wonder why alabama and the like aren't punished?...what about kentucky basketball?

please don't tell me carolina is hated by the ncaa...if you believe that, then not even a doctor can help.

now, if you want to say the ncaa as a whole is horrendously run, yes, i buy that.

I think the delay is a side effect of what they are trying to do. That would be making sure that they don't appear to be giving the big boys special treatment. They are trying their best to find major athletic issues but they haven't been able to. I doubt they even realize they are hurting our recruiting. They just aren't that smart or creative.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

...what about kentucky basketball?

You mean like this?

 

[UNC Blue Hup]

The NCAA is a joke--Roy finally said something publicly because he's sick of it and he knows it's cost us several recruits--basically he quit hiding behind the threat of some major penalty, because he knows it ain't comin!

 

[gteeitup]

You mean like this?

eddie sutton = frank???

i figured this would happen...i never said carolina wasn't culpable just like kentucky was, but cmon dude.

all i know is nobody agrees the ncaa is running at maximum capacity, intelligence, or professionalism...but in 2015, now 2016, to believe the ncaa is intentionally trying to hurt a cash cow for them is absurd.

 

[coryfly]

I think everyone knows the scandal has hurt recruiting. This was handled very poorly from the beginning on many fronts. A coach pointing out UNC is under investigation is not negative recruiting. It is the truth. We need this BS to be behind us. Despite that, I'm pretty happy with the guys Roy has brought in. He deserves a ton of credit for that.

 

[keysersosay#1]

This goes WAY beyond a coach merely pointing out that Carolina is under NCAA scrutiny. Roy can /could handle that and probably has over the past years. No this is more direct and Roy would not mention that unless it were true and very very relentless.


The NCAA does not "hate" Carolina as someone tried to point out.

No it is really in a box and knows it has zero legal authority to go after Carolina on academic grounds ,their president said so last year.

What CAN they do to us in the form of punishment that is effective??? They can do what they are doing ,which is NOTHING for as long as possible. That is a de facto punishment which HAS worked in hurting our recruiting although not as much as it might have due to Roy and his relentless drive and skill at that part of coaching.

WE added to the problems with those additional violations in soccer and women's bball last fall, which further gummed up the works. The NCAA knows full well what it is doing and they along with rival coaches are doing all they can to stick it to Carolina in subtle and not so subtle ways.

.

 

[gary-7]

anyone that believes the ncaa is purposely killing unc recruiting by delaying any sort of punishment must also explain why the hated sec schools are clearly maximizing the gray yet are not punished.

do you guys ever wonder why alabama and the like aren't punished?...what about kentucky basketball?

please don't tell me carolina is hated by the ncaa...if you believe that, then not even a doctor can help.

now, if you want to say the ncaa as a whole is horrendously run, yes, i buy that.

I don't wonder --- I know. The head of the NCAA Mark Emmert is Saban's benefactor --- covered up the midget's grade-change scandal when they were both at LSU. Couple of years ago 3 NCAA enforcement investigators resigned over Emmert's refusal to follow their recommendations which included popping bama harder than any program since the SMU "death penalty". The head of enforcement who stepped in after the resignations is a bama grad. Imagine that....

Ole Miss had recently beat bama at its own dirty recruiting game on a few prospects and conveniently allegations against Ole Miss (mere amateurs at the game compared to the masters in tuscaloosa) are announced by the NCAA the week before National Signing Day. Imagine that...

As far as Carolina hoops are concerned, I don't know that it is any vendetta against the program by the NCAA --- but I would be willing to bet they are stringing it out to appease the loud voices among our rivals who are crying for blood and the media types who ginned it up, then punish the women's program after the season, whilst quietly letting the investigation come to an end. Whatever the motivation the damages have been very real.

Bottom line is though, if anyone wants to believe there aren't shenanigans and sometimes downright malfeasance in the NCAA , then well... I've got some beach-front property in Kansas I'll let ya have... REAL cheap.

 

[gary-7]

I think everyone knows the scandal has hurt recruiting. This was handled very poorly from the beginning on many fronts. A coach pointing out UNC is under investigation is not negative recruiting. It is the truth. We need this BS to be behind us. Despite that, I'm pretty happy with the guys Roy has brought in. He deserves a ton of credit for that.

True, but an opposing coach saying Roy's program is going on probation is just making sh** up.

 

[keysersosay#1]

and Gary THAT is precisely why ROY took out after Gottlieb. He was making ISH up just like all the rivals have been doing for four friggin years and Roy is SICK of it.

 

[Archer2]

The NCAA does not "hate" Carolina as someone tried to point out.

No it is really in a box and knows it has zero legal authority to go after Carolina on academic grounds ,their president said so last year.

What CAN they do to us in the form of punishment that is effective??? They can do what they are doing ,which is NOTHING for as long as possible. That is a de facto punishment which HAS worked in hurting our recruiting although not as much as it might have due to Roy and his relentless drive and skill at that part of coaching.

I think this is spot on. They themselves have basically said it was an academic department issue, not an athletic department issue, at least as far as the major sports go. They're being pressured to make an example of us by the media but don't have the evidence to do so. So they're making a show of due diligence and punishing us by hurting our recruiting for the last four years. Meanwhile, they're still making money off one of their cash cows.

Cowardly, despicable behavior. But that's what you get when you have a monarchy that isn't held accountable to anyone.

 

[DSouthr]

I don't wonder --- I know. The head of the NCAA Mark Emmert is Saban's benefactor --- covered up the midget's grade-change scandal when they were both at LSU. Couple of years ago 3 NCAA enforcement investigators resigned over Emmert's refusal to follow their recommendations which included popping bama harder than any program since the SMU "death penalty". The head of enforcement who stepped in after the resignations is a bama grad. Imagine that....

Ole Miss had recently beat bama at its own dirty recruiting game on a few prospects and conveniently allegations against Ole Miss (mere amateurs at the game compared to the masters in tuscaloosa) are announced by the NCAA the week before National Signing Day. Imagine that...

As far as Carolina hoops are concerned, I don't know that it is any vendetta against the program by the NCAA --- but I would be willing to bet they are stringing it out to appease the loud voices among our rivals who are crying for blood and the media types who ginned it up, then punish the women's program after the season, whilst quietly letting the investigation come to an end. Whatever the motivation the damages have been very real.

Bottom line is though, if anyone wants to believe there aren't shenanigans and sometimes downright malfeasance in the NCAA , then well... I've got some beach-front property in Kansas I'll let ya have... REAL cheap.

gary, I would not call it a vendetta, but there is intense pressure stirred up by the national media and now politicians are involved and all are putting pressure on the NCAA to hammer us specifically for men's football and basketball. And the NCAA knows if they do hammer those sports that this thing will end up in court and the NCAA will easily be ruled as acting outside of their chartered guidelines. That is not news, not even a guess, the NCAA has already acknowledged as such. They could have tried all the way up to the point where they publically stated the AFAM issue was not under their authority unless coaches steered players to those classes. There is no proof of that in men's basketball or football.

The NCAA is in a bind, they absolutely do want to hammer us to relieve all the pressure on them that the national media has created. The last thing the NCAA wants to deal with is politicians getting involved and even that has now happened.

 

[Tom79]

Some good posts above. I, too, am glad Roy spoke up.
The NCAA is a corrupt bunch beginning with Emmert. They have acknowledged the academic versus the athletic issue and have discovered they have no jurisdiction. No evidence to support allegations. And even with our reporting of some minor issues in non-revenue sports, they have walked this thing far too many times around the block.
Fish or cut bait...take a dump or get off the pot...
I would be very happy if a large group of the "member institutions" that pay those bastards would sue the hell out of the NCAA in Federal Court.

 

[Tigertown_a_Rick]

I don't wonder --- I know. The head of the NCAA Mark Emmert is Saban's benefactor --- covered up the midget's grade-change scandal when they were both at LSU. Couple of years ago 3 NCAA enforcement investigators resigned over Emmert's refusal to follow their recommendations which included popping bama harder than any program since the SMU "death penalty". The head of enforcement who stepped in after the resignations is a bama grad. Imagine that....

Ole Miss had recently beat bama at its own dirty recruiting game on a few prospects and conveniently allegations against Ole Miss (mere amateurs at the game compared to the masters in tuscaloosa) are announced by the NCAA the week before National Signing Day. Imagine that...

As far as Carolina hoops are concerned, I don't know that it is any vendetta against the program by the NCAA --- but I would be willing to bet they are stringing it out to appease the loud voices among our rivals who are crying for blood and the media types who ginned it up, then punish the women's program after the season, whilst quietly letting the investigation come to an end. Whatever the motivation the damages have been very real.

Bottom line is though, if anyone wants to believe there aren't shenanigans and sometimes downright malfeasance in the NCAA , then well... I've got some beach-front property in Kansas I'll let ya have... REAL cheap.

Just kinda makes you hate the SEC and NCAA even more!

Alabama has got it good for sure with Emmert there to either cover up, or just ignore possible sanctions altogether for his buddies and friends in the SEC....His answer is to get rid of those investigators who want to punish his buddies, and replace them with someone who obviously has no intentions of doing the right thing.....No wonder Alabama continues to dominate the College Football World, and will continue to do so as long as Emmert is there to have their back when trouble is on the horizon.....

I just can't understand why the Carolina administration has not hired some type of Legal or PR representative to clear all this junk up, and hold those responsible who should be, instead of letting this continuous negative narrative to be spread by the Media, which continues to put Carolina in the National spotlight as a dirty school that needs to be punished severely....

It's a lie that is continually perpetuated as the truth by the Media, and it seems that nobody that's in a position of authority at Carolina cares to do anything about it, or even mention it other than Roy Williams, and I find that unbelievable!

Just sickens me to NO end that this mess seemingly goes on and on and on....

Will it ever end?

 

[gary-7]

Just kinda makes you hate the SEC and NCAA even more!

Alabama has got it good for sure with Emmert there to either cover up, or just ignore possible sanctions altogether for his buddies and friends in the SEC....His answer is to get rid of those investigators who want to punish his buddies, and replace them with someone who obviously has no intentions of doing the right thing.....No wonder Alabama continues to dominate the College Football World, and will continue to do so as long as Emmert is there to have their back when trouble is on the horizon.....

I just can't understand why the Carolina administration has not hired some type of Legal or PR representative to clear all this junk up, and hold those responsible who should be, instead of letting this continuous negative narrative to be spread by the Media, which continues to put Carolina in the National spotlight as a dirty school that needs to be punished severely....

It's a lie that is continually perpetuated as the truth by the Media, and it seems that nobody that's in a position of authority at Carolina cares to do anything about it, or even mention it other than Roy Williams, and I find that unbelievable!

Just sickens me to NO end that this mess seemingly goes on and on and on....

Will it ever end?

Considering Emmert somehow just got re-upped to run the NCAA? Let's just say I am not optimistic.

 

[Tom79]

That and the fish wrap over to Rawlee is still printing...I had hoped their stock had fallen so precipitously that they were finished. One does not have to have just fallen off the cabbage truck to realize that, as Gary mentions, they continue to take care of their own.

 

[plm]

negative recruiting has always been a part of it to a certain degree with UNC. what about dean is the only guy who held Michael Jordan to under 20 points a game or you have to wait your turn at UNC. look at what is going on at Tennessee with the title ix. not that i agree with it or anything but it is what it is.

 

[gary-7]

Anyone who claims that teams have not been using the "scandal" to trash us and negative recruit against us need to listen to the presser today with Roy.

Starting at about the ten minute mark Roy expresses real exasperation at what he and the staff have had to deal with over the last 4 years. It is the WORST he has ever seen and he strongly believes No school has had to endure the attacks from the usual suspects that Carolina has had to deal with. The Gottlieb remarks were, in Roy/s eyes, a further bit of crap that just adds to the constant and immense negative stuff he and staff have had to deal with since 2012.

It is obvious to me that the NCAA has been dragging its feet to HURT our recruiting and the tactic has worked. The doochies, the woofies ,the kittycats hell ALL of them have been using this as a sword to attack UNC and it has been effective. In an earlier statement Roy estimated that this whole thing and the negative attacks have cost us at least 6 top line players.

...and now, just like clockwork, Roy having to deny the Gottlieb rumors he's leaving appear on the ESPN crawler. And some on here don't believe that crap Gottlieb spews enhances negative recruiting?
Un-f**-ing-real.

 

[tarheel0910]

I just can't understand why the Carolina administration has not hired some type of Legal or PR representative to clear all this junk up, and hold those responsible who should be, instead of letting this continuous negative narrative to be spread by the Media, which continues to put Carolina in the National spotlight as a dirty school that needs to be punished severely....

They are under the illusion that it helps to get on your knees for the NCAA. History says that's not true.

 

[DSouthr]

...and now, just like clockwork, Roy having to deny the Gottlieb rumors he's leaving appear on the ESPN crawler. And some on here don't believe that crap Gottlieb spews enhances negative recruiting?
Un-f**-ing-real.

I want to make 2 strong points, first, while I absolutely agree the NCAA stuff is a factor it is NOT the ONLY factor and IMO it is not the largest factor in our not getting some of these star talents. Telling you right now guys, most of the top 10 players in the country looking to commit to a school they are looking for the quickest path to the NBA. They are looking for a program that will feature them day 1 and a program that will not hold them back from entering the draft after that freshman season. That is the culture we are dealing with today. IMO,in my very strong opinion, this is the single greatest issue we face. But right next to that are the reception that "handlers" and "advisors" get from the schools they look at. We all know how Roy feels about the handlers and advisors that are not parents. Why isn't Bam comitted to UNC after having grown up a Tar Heel fan, his advisor, no one is shocked at the very warm welcome his advisor got at Ky...

I appreciate what Roy is saying, Roy is trying to prode the time line for final resolution along so he can talk to recruits with this as in the past not still open ended. Roy knows there were other factors as well involved with Ingram, Randle, Denis Smith, Tatum, ect. But if he can use his own spin to speed up this process then good job Roy.

Second point is I sometimes wonder if folks understand how the negative recruiting is used? I think many feel it is a NC State coach telling Dennis Smith, UNC is going to get post season bans, scholly reductions, ect. While that may happen on rare occasions, it is more often, well ya know, we are a solid program, we sure are not concerned with NCAA problelms, post season ban problems, we have been in the NCAAT for nearly every season in the last 20yrs. That sews the seed and it is sewed in furtile ground, add and we wan our freshmen to take advantage of the NBA draft and want to help you make that happen. Not one time did I mention UNC and not one time would I have had to. That is not "wallowing in the mud" that is explaining YOUR benefits and you let the kid reach the conclusions in his on head. For example if the kid is looking at 5 schools and Ky makes the statement that we do not hold you back, they get a check mark and UNC does not. That is how it is done without overtly trashing another program but making the same point.

 

[Spacegrass]

I know Roy is annoyed with all of this but he needs to just lay low at least until after the season and preferably after the NCAA rules on this. Say what you have to behind the scenes to players and coaches but in front of the media don't give them anything.

 

[tarheel0910]

I want to make 2 strong points, first, while I absolutely agree the NCAA stuff is a factor it is NOT the ONLY factor and IMO it is not the largest factor in our not getting some of these star talents. Telling you right now guys, most of the top 10 players in the country looking to commit to a school they are looking for the quickest path to the NBA. They are looking for a program that will feature them day 1 and a program that will not hold them back from entering the draft after that freshman season. That is the culture we are dealing with today. IMO,in my very strong opinion, this is the single greatest issue we face. But right next to that are the reception that "handlers" and "advisors" get from the schools they look at. We all know how Roy feels about the handlers and advisors that are not parents. Why isn't Bam comitted to UNC after having grown up a Tar Heel fan, his advisor, no one is shocked at the very warm welcome his advisor got at Ky...

I appreciate what Roy is saying, Roy is trying to prode the time line for final resolution along so he can talk to recruits with this as in the past not still open ended. Roy knows there were other factors as well involved with Ingram, Randle, Denis Smith, Tatum, ect. But if he can use his own spin to speed up this process then good job Roy.

Second point is I sometimes wonder if folks understand how the negative recruiting is used? I think many feel it is a NC State coach telling Dennis Smith, UNC is going to get post season bans, scholly reductions, ect. While that may happen on rare occasions, it is more often, well ya know, we are a solid program, we sure are not concerned with NCAA problelms, post season ban problems, we have been in the NCAAT for nearly every season in the last 20yrs. That sews the seed and it is sewed in furtile ground, add and we wan our freshmen to take advantage of the NBA draft and want to help you make that happen. Not one time did I mention UNC and not one time would I have had to. That is not "wallowing in the mud" that is explaining YOUR benefits and you let the kid reach the conclusions in his on head. For example if the kid is looking at 5 schools and Ky makes the statement that we do not hold you back, they get a check mark and UNC does not. That is how it is done without overtly trashing another program but making the same point.

I agree for the most part. I just think there is a little more being said because both Roy and Fedora have publicly talked about it. I don't think they would say anything if it was just what you mentioned.

 

[goheels653]

...and now, just like clockwork, Roy having to deny the Gottlieb rumors he's leaving appear on the ESPN crawler. And some on here don't believe that crap Gottlieb spews enhances negative recruiting?
Un-f**-ing-real.

Scratch that... I was thinking Gottfried.

 

[montana_heel]

South. I am in sales and I sell the best product. You explained exactly what I do. I sell my advantage without mentioning the competition because I don't have to. My prospect knows what I am saying without me bringing up my competitor. Why would I mention a piece of functionality and stress it, if I knew my competitor did the same exact thing? I wouldn't. So if I stress something it is because the other guy can't do it and they know it.

 

[gary-7]

Anyone who claims that teams have not been using the "scandal" to trash us and negative recruit against us need to listen to the presser today with Roy.

Starting at about the ten minute mark Roy expresses real exasperation at what he and the staff have had to deal with over the last 4 years. It is the WORST he has ever seen and he strongly believes No school has had to endure the attacks from the usual suspects that Carolina has had to deal with. The Gottlieb remarks were, in Roy/s eyes, a further bit of crap that just adds to the constant and immense negative stuff he and staff have had to deal with since 2012.

It is obvious to me that the NCAA has been dragging its feet to HURT our recruiting and the tactic has worked. The doochies, the woofies ,the kittycats hell ALL of them have been using this as a sword to attack UNC and it has been effective. In an earlier statement Roy estimated that this whole thing and the negative attacks have cost us at least 6 top line players.

...and speaking of the presser, I'm sure Roy is getting sick of questions about Marcus playing more PG by the same writers. Good to see him reject those silly questions like a weak lay-up.

 

[Archer2]

Gary had alluded to this but I think it bears reiteration. Roy has made it plain that he has no desire to deal with handlers who want assurances, be they parents or AAU coaches. Unfortunately, there are quite a few AAU coaches that desire to jump on the gravy train and expect to have direct input as to where a kid matriculates. Roy's refusal to negotiate with them has to rankle them. So they try to steer their kids elsewhere.

So we have the press, certain college coaches, and certain AAU coaches working against our recruiting efforts. Add in the perception that we're not OAD friendly, and it's only due to our staff's tireless efforts that we've recruited as well as we have. We're besieged on all fronts.

 

[Steat]

...and speaking of the presser, I'm sure Roy is getting sick of questions about Marcus playing more PG by the same writers. Good to see him reject those silly questions like a weak lay-up.

Berry is better point guard than Paige and everyone knows that. Paige's problems are mental and for the Heels to win it all he is going to have to pick it up big time. It would be nice for him to start tonight.

 

[Archer2]

Agreed Steat. Paige's problems don't stem from him playing SG. His wide open looks stopped falling and he started pressing. I think he's starting to get his shooting eye back and we certainly need him to.

 

[gary-7]

Berry is better point guard than Paige and everyone knows that. Paige's problems are mental and for the Heels to win it all he is going to have to pick it up big time. It would be nice for him to start tonight.

It would.
Marcus had a good defensive game but rough on the offensive end the first game --- hopefully he lights up the pack tonight.