Roy's Visits
- Thread starter RoseHeel
- Start date
Unfortunately, it seems like the common theme among those Top 5 Recruits and families. Parents love us and especially Roy. Kid gives us some nice words, leaves us in his final list, but always ends up elsewhere.
Hopeful, but have to wait and see.
I'm with you, but this one does feel different from a family values perspective. Dad talks about a college coach that can help his son become a man first, NBA comes 2nd. Not sure we heard that from PJ and the like.
2017 has been disappointing (other than Jalek) but our prospects for future recruits in future classes seem to be on the upswing. We will see.
OK, so we talked a good bit over this past summer about recruiting and how in the eyes of many we are not at the same level we are used to. We talked at length as to reasons why this has occurred, valid reasons, maybe primary in most minds the NCAA dark cloud that hangs over us. We talked about the perception that UNC is not a great conduit for the one & done level talent be it truth or fiction that perception is out there.
But there is one aspect that is/was rarely talked about but it may be the most important aspect of all. Kids want to be winners, one & done level talents consider themselves to be winners, they all want to play for a winning program and they all want to win. They know, play for a winner in college and your draftability pops, don't and it drops.
Now last season, making it to the NCAAT title game, we were a winner program, teams that get to the final 4 tend to get that rep. Last season began and there was a lot of discussion of the dark clouded stuff but as that season progressed the wheel seemed to turn from the UNC negativity to this is a really good team. Now this season, other than a little bit when the amended ANOA came out, the negative stuff has not been nearly as much discussed during our games as it was last season. It is as if the national discussion of negatives toward the program has jumped the shark and it was that negative national discussion that drove perceptions.
Notice the tone when our games are called this season, notice the post game media reactions, it has become much more about how good this UNC team is and really not that much negative, well unless you read the N&O and who does that any more. Kids love winners!
So IMO a lot depends on how we end this season, it is a total win for us if we can get at least to the final 4, further would be awesome but getting to the final 4 is IMO vital for us. With our style of play which is fun for these kids and getting to the final 4, it is the stuff that changes perception from negative to positive. Negative recruit against us and it is yeah but been hearing how they were going to get hammered since I was in middle school and they still have not been but they are playing for the title every year and they play a fun style and wait, they have a lot of guys in the NBA that were not rated as high as I am right now so what the heck are you talking? LOL
Important to understand, before last season, call it under achieving or call it not exceeding expectations but you certainly can not call it exceeding expectations in our results for a string of seasons, a string beginning when Henson and Zeller left. Last season was at very worst meeting expectations and frankly, I think it should be seen as exceeding them, at least exceeding what those not UNC fans expected. IT wasn't Ky or duke in the final 4 or title game, it was UNC, wasn't Kansas or Arizona, all those teams flamed out, they all under achieved national expectations but the Tar Heel's exceeded them, the tar Heels were winners, kids love to play for winners.
Kids that are college freshmen this season made their decisions when UNC was still under that dark could from the NCAA and the national media was hammering us every day, truth is the kids that are in this 2017 class when they are at the most critical point of making their decisions in their soph and Jr high school years were bombarded with negative UNC media hits that fed the negative recruiting. That is not really happening now, the 2018 class has warmed toward us and all indications are the 2019 class may actually be hot for us again. And why, because UNC is beginning to look like a winner again, the national media does not toss out a hit piece on us every day, what they are tossing out now is how good a team we are, that we are winning, did I mention that kids love to play for winners? LOL
But there is one aspect that is/was rarely talked about but it may be the most important aspect of all. Kids want to be winners, one & done level talents consider themselves to be winners, they all want to play for a winning program and they all want to win. They know, play for a winner in college and your draftability pops, don't and it drops.
Now last season, making it to the NCAAT title game, we were a winner program, teams that get to the final 4 tend to get that rep. Last season began and there was a lot of discussion of the dark clouded stuff but as that season progressed the wheel seemed to turn from the UNC negativity to this is a really good team. Now this season, other than a little bit when the amended ANOA came out, the negative stuff has not been nearly as much discussed during our games as it was last season. It is as if the national discussion of negatives toward the program has jumped the shark and it was that negative national discussion that drove perceptions.
Notice the tone when our games are called this season, notice the post game media reactions, it has become much more about how good this UNC team is and really not that much negative, well unless you read the N&O and who does that any more. Kids love winners!
So IMO a lot depends on how we end this season, it is a total win for us if we can get at least to the final 4, further would be awesome but getting to the final 4 is IMO vital for us. With our style of play which is fun for these kids and getting to the final 4, it is the stuff that changes perception from negative to positive. Negative recruit against us and it is yeah but been hearing how they were going to get hammered since I was in middle school and they still have not been but they are playing for the title every year and they play a fun style and wait, they have a lot of guys in the NBA that were not rated as high as I am right now so what the heck are you talking? LOL
Important to understand, before last season, call it under achieving or call it not exceeding expectations but you certainly can not call it exceeding expectations in our results for a string of seasons, a string beginning when Henson and Zeller left. Last season was at very worst meeting expectations and frankly, I think it should be seen as exceeding them, at least exceeding what those not UNC fans expected. IT wasn't Ky or duke in the final 4 or title game, it was UNC, wasn't Kansas or Arizona, all those teams flamed out, they all under achieved national expectations but the Tar Heel's exceeded them, the tar Heels were winners, kids love to play for winners.
Kids that are college freshmen this season made their decisions when UNC was still under that dark could from the NCAA and the national media was hammering us every day, truth is the kids that are in this 2017 class when they are at the most critical point of making their decisions in their soph and Jr high school years were bombarded with negative UNC media hits that fed the negative recruiting. That is not really happening now, the 2018 class has warmed toward us and all indications are the 2019 class may actually be hot for us again. And why, because UNC is beginning to look like a winner again, the national media does not toss out a hit piece on us every day, what they are tossing out now is how good a team we are, that we are winning, did I mention that kids love to play for winners? LOL
Good post South. It seems like Roy is getting MORE involved earlier which I think does make a difference. He didn't get this far by being stupid (stubborn maybe 
). He will adjust to what is required to bring in the players that we wants to work with.
). He will adjust to what is required to bring in the players that we wants to work with.
17 was looking real good at one time. Then as we got closer and closer it became apparent that there was not going to be any resolution to the ncaa probs and neg recruiting killed us in the final hours as kids made decisions. That seed of doubt of no post season is a game changer. Thats the ultimate stage to showcase for the nation. If theres no resolution this year 18 will go the same way i'm afraid. On the plus side coach has done remarkable job with these less than stellar classes so far.
Agreed.
When we nabbed Jalek early, he was looking like the foundation of a strong '17 class. Unfortunately, it never turned out that way.
'18 is too early to call, but we got yet another head start with Black & White. If we can nab Hamilton + a 4 or 5 star big (or two), we could be in business.
This is exactly what I mean by things are looking up! If Kentuck and puke flame out again and we make another great run, how will things look then? Kids love winners, love being watched early and often, and love to be told they have guaranteed spots these days. We are doing 2 of the 3 and absent the "stuff" this should be enough to restart getting some elites to go with our glue types! If Roy can take Brice and make him a POY candidate, why can't he do it for me? If Roy can win so much with guys ranked below me, what could we do together?
Go Tar Heels!
I see what you're doing!
Go Tar Heels!
I see what you're doing!
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/10408
Roy and Staff out in KS to see 2019 PF Jeremiah Robinson. #18 in the nation in 2019.
Roy and Staff out in KS to see 2019 PF Jeremiah Robinson. #18 in the nation in 2019.
For those not familiar, Robinson-Earl is the son of former Roy Williams player, Lester Earl. Very active big man that rebounds well and finishes well with both hands.
Well, the dad obviously has ties to Roy but likely has equally strong ties to KU and they're the home state school. That could be a tough hill to climb if KU prioritizes him.
FWIW ...Take it with a big grain of salt but 247 has Jairus Hamilton 100% to UNC at this very early date.
I think it was looking great to fans, not sure it was really as good as it was presented. It hurt we lost the kid from Ill to the instate program, losing Robinson was another tuff one, and for sure losing a close call to Ky for PJ stung. But the real difference maker guys like carter & Bamba, we were not really in for a long time even if offers had been extended. Knox is another dog fight but 2017 fortune has not been real kind to us for the higher ranked guys.
I do think we were closer to some big time gets than we were in 2016, no prize for being runner up for Tilman, Robinson, PJ, or Knox but finishing second rather than further down is an improvement IMO. I do believe the wheel began to turn in our favor more in this 2017 class just not to the extent it paid off in commits from the power players in that class, I do think it will pay off some for this 2018 class, White to go along with leaky is a solid start and I will be thrilled if we can add Hamilton (sorry but it is not going to happen for us and Zion). 2019 is already looking like the class where Tar Heel fans can begin to beath a bit easier. When you consider Joey, Nickleback, the kid out of Minn and a few more that are lining up the sun does seem to be coming back out.
When I saw Roy was going out to his old stopping grounds in Kansas to watch a kid, i immediately thought I wonder if he thinks he can get him out of Kansas because he is a son of a former player Roy coached at Kansas. Thanks for the info!
I like Juwan think he is more of a sf now but kid is athletic. That 2019 class at the SF spot we have chance to get some of the best out of NC and SC I like Christian Brown kid from Sc also.
Although I do think we're in a very good position for Hamilton, he hasn't gotten many high profile offers yet. KU, UK, Duke, and more are all starting to pay close attention as he rises in the rankings (Now a top 30 player in some). Definitely a good thing Roy offered early.
I imagine it could get a bit tougher down the road, but I think Roy is in a good position to get him. Would make a hell of a class coupled with a Big or two.
Before Roy got involved, Kansas most certainly had the edge on everyone else. Remains to be seen if that changes.
I'm surprised that Baker hasn't been getting too much attention compared to others in 2019. Especially seeing that his teammate and friend Nickelberry got an offer (Not to mention Felton already on the roster). Top kid in the state, Consensus 5 star, AND early mutual interest? I would think Roy would be all in for this guy. Hopefully he's got the "behind the scenes" contact going on.
Is M. Hurt a 3 or a 4? he's often listed as a SF, but he's already 6'10 and may not be done growing
I'm surprised that Baker hasn't been getting too much attention compared to others in 2019. Especially seeing that his teammate and friend Nickelberry got an offer (Not to mention Felton already on the roster). Top kid in the state, Consensus 5 star, AND early mutual interest? I would think Roy would be all in for this guy. Hopefully he's got the "behind the scenes" contact going on.
Is M. Hurt a 3 or a 4? he's often listed as a SF, but he's already 6'10 and may not be done growing
Is M. Hurt a 3 or a 4? he's often listed as a SF, but he's already 6'10 and may not be done growing
Bonified ssttrrreeccchhh 4.
Unless I have missed it, a visit and offer I would LOVE to see is to Mr. I love UNC Joey Baker. Dang Roy don't pull a Bruce Pearl and slow play this kid. I know there is a reason but sure would be nice to know it instead of guessing.
I can see how Roy may want to take his time. Not only are we 2 classes away from 2019, but we know Roy prefers to build relationships with the kids & family first. And it seems Baker was a relatively new name to the watch list (Last Half of 2016) compared to the other guys with offers right now.
Another thing is that his highest profile offer right now is basically Texas. Not even Moo U has offered yet. And, seeing only 3 offers have been made in 2019, it's not as concerning that he doesn't have one yet, since most top kids get offers during their Junior season.
Another thing is that his highest profile offer right now is basically Texas. Not even Moo U has offered yet. And, seeing only 3 offers have been made in 2019, it's not as concerning that he doesn't have one yet, since most top kids get offers during their Junior season.
So let me get this straight. We don't need to be the first to offer kids, let others bite the bullet, but we need to offer kids early in order to get in good with the recruit. BTW I agree with your first point just not the second. Shouldn't matter who has or hasn't offered. We need em, go get em!
We should offer Baker Immediately, if not sooner. As for Hurt and Hamilton, would love to have both.
Obviously we should offer him sooner rather than later, the point being made is that some should relax that he doesn't have one just yet. We only have 3 offers out in 2019, and only 1 to a SF. Compare this situation to Matt Coleman, where we offered multiple PGs without even giving him a visit, and this looks much better.
Most kids, sans the top 20 or so, start getting high profile offers their junior and senior year. Some of the schools who often beat us out for recruits have even less.
And as fluid as recruiting rankings are, it makes sense to not go handing out offers without a second thought. A Top 20 kid today could fall down or even out of the rankings by his senior season (and we've had more than a few recruits happen to do just that). This is only his sophomore season. I'd bet a few of you would flip the narrative real quickly if we offered him and he takes a Nate Britt dive in the rankings over the next few years.
Recruiting is not just throwing out scholarships like its a piece of meat to a dog in the backyard. If he's out seeing kids early and often, that's what's more important. What worries me is that we haven't had as much contact with him as we have with guys like Wendell Moore or others.That being said, I'm willing to trust our HOF coach isn't going to let the #1 Player in the state slip out of his reach without even a fight.
Once again I agree with most of what you have said, but just to let you know I had no idea he was the #1 player in the state. I'm in Alabama now, which is no excuse, but see a whole different set of players over this way. My point being, I am going off of what I have seen through video, news, and other media outlets. I don't care if the kid is offered and then drops of the face of the earth. He can play, and would be great for UNC IMO. ALL That to say this again, I know and trust Roy has a plan. It would be nice if i could understand or see it all the time.
No biggie. Just wanted to clarify my point. Believe me, if there's anyone who analyzes Roy's recruiting hard and often, it's me.
Him being #1 in the state is only relevant simply because it signifies his importance. I think Roy cares a great deal about recruiting kids in his back yard. Losing them to Dook and State (or worse, out of state schools) is something Roy has never been to keen on. Not to mention a top guy in the nation at that.
One thing to note is that his teammate and friend, Josh Nickelberry, is one of the three most recent offers made so far. Roy may be trying to secure a commitment, or at least early ground with Nickelberry in order to get them both to team up in College. A Packaged Deal basically. And Nickelberry's no slouch either. Either of these guys would be great in UNC uniform. But both would be stellar.
I expect Roy will be make a flurry of offers sometime in the summer, and I imagine Baker will get one then. Assuming he doesn't have one well before the summer, which I think he will.
+10000000000000000000000
However, we have no idea what has been said between Baker and Roy. Hold tight.
I agree rose but the better comparison IMO would be to Huffman. I think Roy always knew where he stood with the kid and to some extent the kid knew where we stood with him but the actual offer did not come until the kid started getting offers and strong interest from other programs.
