Second Alumni game...

[gary-7]

...yesterday.
- Alums beat Currents 70-54
- Currents were short-handed --- Meeks, Hicks, 7th and Britt DNP (had class)
- IIRC Alums started Ray, Butter, Noel, Psycho, Zeller
- Currents started Berry, Pinson, Jackson, Maye, Bradley.

All in all, not bad considering a spotty 3 pt shooting day for the Currents (something like 6/16, loosely kept) and not having your starting Bigs. The big difference was inside. Tony is gonna be a good player but he was over-matched guarding Big Z, and at a couple of points when the currents went small Theo was isolated guarding Psycho. Theo can hold his own vs most college 4s, but checking Psycho didn't go well for him at all and Luke didn't fare much better.

Scoring
Jackson - 21
Berry - 16
Theo - 8
Luke - 5
Tony - 2
Kenny -2
Stilman - 0
Rush - 0
Robinson - 0
Coker - DNP

3-pointers: JJ made 3, JB made 2 (and a long 2 when his foot was on the line), Luke made 1.

The bad news (besides missing our front line): Only making 6 3s on a lotta open looks and blowing assists.

The good news: JJ looked like Walking Buckets, and yeah, JB is a beast --- had a hand full of dimes (and twice as many blown), 5 boards and 3 or 4 steals (including picking Ray's pocket), and can create his shot pretty much whenever. He and Ray going at each other is fun.
Also, you can visually see the difference in maturity of bodies. Hicks and Meeks are grown-ass men and would have made a difference --- Luke is progressing, but Tony has a way to go physically.
The other good news is that all three of our anchor Junior class looks like they absolutely belong with the big boys. Great experience for the current players.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Tony B is a hard worker and I believe this will be nothing but motivation for him to work even harder. He will be ready by game time. BTW: Not many college peeps ever looked good against Z and Psycho! Did KW look like he was taking his shots with confidence?

 

[Sk1310]

Kenny Williams played? I thought he was recovering from a torn meniscus?

 

[gary-7]

Kenny Williams played? I thought he was recovering from a torn meniscus?

Moved around pretty well. Looks like his recovery is well on track.

Oh, here's a youtube link for the game:

 

[Archer2]

In all fairness, our currents were going to have a very hard time, even if Kennedy/Isaiah/7th/Nate had played. Without those four, we literally had no chance to beat those alums, none. TBS, it shows the current players how much more work they have ahead of them if they want to have a chance at playing pro ball. These games are a great learning experience for our guys. Any coverage of the actual scrimmage?

Just curious, when was the last time, if ever, that the current players beat the alums.

 

[Sk1310]

Moved around pretty well. Looks like his recovery is well on track.

Oh, here's a youtube link for the game:

View embedded media

That's awesome news on Kenny

 

[gary-7]

In all fairness, our currents were going to have a very hard time, even if Kennedy/Isaiah/7th/Nate had played. Without those four, we literally had no chance to beat those alums, none. TBS, it shows the current players how much more work they have ahead of them if they want to have a chance at playing pro ball. These games are a great learning experience for our guys. Any coverage of the actual scrimmage?

Just curious, when was the last time, if ever, that the current players beat the alums.

Yeah, these guys our kids are playing against aren't a bunch of crafty fat old guys --- they're experienced pros and grown-ass men. But I'll tell ya Arch... watching that game I can see us beating them on a given day with Hicks and Meeks and a decent shooting afternoon.

The other positive that sticks out I mentioned above: Our anchor Junior class is the real deal. Other than guarding Psycho, Theo played well. Buckets can score on anybody and maybe most impressively, the Alums started two legendary Carolina PGs but they've got nuthin' on #2 in blue. He can play with those guys anywhere, anytime and as long as we've got that nasty dog carrying the torch we're gonna be pretty doggone good .

 

[DSouthr]

Well first, it was the type of game akin to an all star game in that there was not a ton of intensity and there were a whole lot of shots from Joel and Justin, hope that kind of unbalanced shooting is not what we see in many games next season. It was kind of a typical pick up game more so than real game.

Tony looks good for a freshman at this point in his career, just has to me that throw back Big Brad kind of game. AS he works in the weight room this kid can really become a special player for us.

I thought it was BRob but maybe it was Kenny that hit a nice little pull up from the foul line extended. Luke played pretty well, seems to have bulked up a little bit, looks like a shorter Kevin Love, would love to see if he can knock down more jumpers and maybe play more like Love. Does a good job blocking out on rebounds but just isn't a guy that plays above the rim.

Theo, that jump still looks pretty much the same as it looked last season, still 3-4mo to work to hone it in but still not on good balance and falls away on even clean looks. IN every other aspect of the game other than jump shooting Theo is a NBA level player but there is that shot worry.

 

[gary-7]

Well first, it was the type of game akin to an all star game in that there was not a ton of intensity and there were a whole lot of shots from Joel and Justin, hope that kind of unbalanced shooting is not what we see in many games next season. It was kind of a typical pick up game more so than real game.

Tony looks good for a freshman at this point in his career, just has to me that throw back Big Brad kind of game. AS he works in the weight room this kid can really become a special player for us.

I thought it was BRob but maybe it was Kenny that hit a nice little pull up from the foul line extended. Luke played pretty well, seems to have bulked up a little bit, looks like a shorter Kevin Love, would love to see if he can knock down more jumpers and maybe play more like Love. Does a good job blocking out on rebounds but just isn't a guy that plays above the rim.

Theo, that jump still looks pretty much the same as it looked last season, still 3-4mo to work to hone it in but still not on good balance and falls away on even clean looks. IN every other aspect of the game other than jump shooting Theo is a NBA level player but there is that shot worry.

It was Kenny. He also played good D when Butter tried to post him.
If Robinson got on the floor it was for a very short stint.

BTW: If Hicks and Meeks were there JJ probably wouldn't have had to take so many shots.

You're right of course, it was a pick-up game. As for real games this season I can see us having five guys average double-figures, but don't be surprised to see JJ and JB's scoring increase substantially... and I think that will be a good thing for the team.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Moved around pretty well. Looks like his recovery is well on track.

Oh, here's a youtube link for the game:

View embedded media

Good fun. Thanks for the link.

Tony and Kenny both looked pretty good to me. Not starter good, but about where I want them to be at this stage in the process. They should contribute well next season.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Theo worried me a little. I don't want to read too much into a game that had nothing riding on it and wasn't being coached by Roy, but he still looks like a guy who is relying on his superior athleticism rather than a guy who is working to improve his skills. Not just shooting. Everything he did looked loosey-goosey and ad hoc. Still fun to watch because he really is a superior athlete, but that won't hack it against top competition.

 

[Steat]

Theo had several wide open 3's and nothing but bricks. Hope Hubert can take him to an island and work exclusively on that shot...lol

 

[DSouthr]

Theo had several wide open 3's and nothing but bricks. Hope Hubert can take him to an island and work exclusively on that shot...lol

And that is my point when discussing Theo at the 2 guard spot, he has got to shoot better than that to be at the 2. I do think his shooting can vastly improve but it is just going to take time for him to trust good form and I didn't see his shooting with good form and that has to start. Let me try to explain what I see with his jumpers that needs to be fixed.

1) He falls away on pretty much every jump shot he takes. This means he is not going up for that shot on balance. You only fall away on your shot when you are being tight guarded and having to put up a end of the shot clock prayer or know you have a guy about to foul you and want to get 2 shots at the line. Ideally you want to go straight up and come straight back down on a jump shot, if you come down in any direction it should be slightly forward rather than back. The worst way to come down is backwards because you have to adjust your shot in the air every time in a way I call kentucky windage, those of you that shoot black powder know exactly what I mean by that term. It means he has to adjust every shot while his feet are off the ground rather than having every shot feel the same every time. If you are slightly past your real comfort range you can increase your range a little by coming down just slightly forward, what I call falling forward, allows more of your body to get in to the shot and relies less on just arms. You just can't consistently judge distance of your shot if you are falling back (like a fade away) on every shot.

2) His shot is all from his arms & shoulders, his body is not in to the shot in a way that helps, I saw him go up for one jump shot in this alum game off of one leg? It is bad enough to fall away going up square on both legs but to go up on 1 leg and still fall away means you have to adjust distance as well as left right? Honestly, it is amazing that he shot near 30% with all that adjustment in the air? It tells me he has a good bit of shooters feel to even be able to do that. Shooters feel is the hard thing that many can chase but never find. But as long as Theo allows himself to have to adjust in the air off balance he wil never be able to shoot the ball consistently.

3) Lack of follow thru, well if you are falling back on most of your shots it is virtually impossible to follow thru even a little bit and follow thru is just as important as going up on balance. His arm motion tends to be more to keep from falling down than a shot follow thru which makes sense if you consider you trying to jump and come down with your weight shifted backwards, you have to use your arms to try to keep from falling down, how can you do that as well as follow thru on a jump shot, answer is you can't. Funny thing is watch Theo shot a free throw, he follows thru nice on those.

What he needs to force himself to do until he can get the feel is to catch the ball, square his feet (spread about shoulder width and toes pointed toward the basket), elevate with his weight shifted very slightly forward, move the ball from the catch point, usually somewhere between the waist and chest, raise the ball all in one motion up to his release point, no stopping of this motion all the way thru release of the shot, and dramatically follow thru, in the beginning flow thru so dramatically that his hands end up after the shot all the way down to his waist. Dramatic follow thru like that will engrain following thru and once that has formed you shorten that follow thru to the top of your chest. And finally notice on every shot when you land, are you either on balance when you land or you weight shifted slightly forward if so that is what you are looking for, if you land and your weight is shifted backwards then you need to work more to correct that. Maybe easier to see in if you land with your weight shifted backwards you slightly jumped backwards when you lifted off the court and you want to jump either straight up or very slightly forward. Longer guys like Theo may want to land (and thus jump) very slightly forward because their arms being so long and get a little looey goosey, can flail a lil bit. They tend to get better control moving forward just a little bit and they can see the basket a split second longer. When a long guy like Theo falls back on his shot he can't see the basket well and adds another level of difficulty to his shot.

One problem that creeps in to some shooters is they will hesitate at the top of their jump just before they release the ball, it is a bad habit but one that seems to sneak in to a lot of shooters, you wil see that a lot when a kid goes in to a shooting slump, they wil hesitate at the top of their jump and almost try to steer the ball in rather than allow that smooth consistent motion to join your shooters feel.

Marcus got in to that shooting slump season, did ya notice why? Defenders started playing him as a deadly shooter and closed out hard on him, he began to fall away a little bit on his shots. Marcus was a lil side saddle on his shots anyway, meaning he tended to have one foot slightly ahead of the other, a lot of leftys do that, not being a lefty I can't say why but it must be a feel thing. The thing that marcus did so well was he followed thru really nice and seemed to most often have good balance going up but when he rushed his shot (because of defenders flying at him) he got in trouble when he fell away slightly. Falling away means you miss either long or short, poor balance going up tends to make you miss left or right.

It is hard enough to correct one flaw in a shot motion but Theo has multiple things that need correction, basically Theo needs to scrap heap his jump shot all together and totally rebuild it from scratch. He can but that wil take time and he has to develop confidence in it and put up hundreds of shots a day to build in that muscle memory and I just don't know how much of that he can do in just a single off season.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

2) His shot is all from his arms & shoulders, his body is not in to the shot in a way that helps

This is the problem I was referring to in another post. He's relying too much on superior athleticism, and not nearly enough on learned skills.

I had a somewhat similar experience when young. I was a gymnast, specializing in rings. When playing tennis with my friends, I relied on my Popeye forearms rather than good footwork and good ball anticipation. Which was very successful for me . . . until I started playing against better players. Then my low level of learned skills betrayed me.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

He doesn't have to be a shooter to be a 2 at UNC! He is exactly what Roy likes: A versatile athlete that can guard multiple positions, distribute the ball efficiently, score and rebound sufficiently, handle the ball with strength, and play hard all game! We have shooters at the 1 and 3 to keep defenses honest and bigs to make them pay with pain (and at least 1 with a good mid-range jumper). You mix it up with Britt, KW and BRob and now you have 3-4 shooters in the game and the D has to be worried about a totally different look. Haven't we learned not to think traditionally about Roy's offense. Traditionalists lamented how many peeps he played until the intelligent ones figured out Roy didn't need to follow, he could lead! We complained about him not using TO's until he went deep in the ACC and NCAA and his traditional foes lost with no TOs left! Maybe he is going non-traditional in his lineup to match his players skill sets!

 

[mikeirbyusa]

A 2 that can't hit 3s will have a very difficult time starting for this team.

 

[Ozheelfan]

He doesn't have to be a shooter to be a 2 at UNC! He is exactly what Roy likes: A versatile athlete that can guard multiple positions, distribute the ball efficiently, score and rebound sufficiently, handle the ball with strength, and play hard all game! We have shooters at the 1 and 3 to keep defenses honest and bigs to make them pay with pain (and at least 1 with a good mid-range jumper). You mix it up with Britt, KW and BRob and now you have 3-4 shooters in the game and the D has to be worried about a totally different look. Haven't we learned not to think traditionally about Roy's offense. Traditionalists lamented how many peeps he played until the intelligent ones figured out Roy didn't need to follow, he could lead! We complained about him not using TO's until he went deep in the ACC and NCAA and his traditional foes lost with no TOs left! Maybe he is going non-traditional in his lineup to match his players skill sets!

This post was like a breath of fresh air!
Way too much hand-wringing on these boards about Theo's shot and why he shouldn't start!
As you said, JB and JJ will/should provide plenty of fire power from deep whereas Theo will provide energy, energy, energy and, for good measure, energy!
And yes, Roy is not a traditionalist - He's shown a penchant in recent years for mixing up his line-ups, doing a ton of early season experimentation and working/developing the players he has at his disposal.
So yeah, I'm in the "Theo to start" camp.

 

[trestyles]

Theo will start. He is better then brit, KW, and woods right now. Also this is his first FULL off season. He was injured last year.

 

[trestyles]

Also if you follow Joel Berry snapchat, him and theo are in the gym working on their own every day together.

 

[Spacegrass]

He doesn't have to be a shooter to be a 2 at UNC! He is exactly what Roy likes: A versatile athlete that can guard multiple positions, distribute the ball efficiently, score and rebound sufficiently, handle the ball with strength, and play hard all game! We have shooters at the 1 and 3 to keep defenses honest and bigs to make them pay with pain (and at least 1 with a good mid-range jumper). You mix it up with Britt, KW and BRob and now you have 3-4 shooters in the game and the D has to be worried about a totally different look. Haven't we learned not to think traditionally about Roy's offense. Traditionalists lamented how many peeps he played until the intelligent ones figured out Roy didn't need to follow, he could lead! We complained about him not using TO's until he went deep in the ACC and NCAA and his traditional foes lost with no TOs left! Maybe he is going non-traditional in his lineup to match his players skill sets!

Somebody on this upcoming roster has to learn how to shoot 3's outside of Berry. Don't care about reps I care about results.

 

[Archer2]

We need a minimum of two guys who can knock down the three consistently(35% rate). I think JJ can be one of those guys, along with Joel. But JJ needs to prove it.

Losing Brice's consistent scoring and rebounding is going to be hard enough to replace. Throw in Marcus' scoring and that's a lot of critical points lost to graduation. Hopefully, Isaiah will come close to matching Brice's numbers and Kennedy will increase his as well. But neither are givens.

IOW, I think scoring from the SG spot is crucial to next year's team's success. And I think at least some of that must come from beyond the arc. Theo brings a lot to the table but just seems better suited to SF than SG to me, with stints at PF when we go small.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

We need to score 80+ points, but they don't have to come from behind the arc. We will lose Brice and gain a significant portion from Hicks. We lose Marcus (who, no disrespect, was inconsistent) and see an increase from JB and Meeks. JJ and JB increase their 3pt makes. TP ADDS playmaking, rebounding (especially Offensive), energy, and a scary athletic slasher. He finds out he has a midrange game and we are set. Add in shooters, athletes, size, and D from the bench and we are gold! I'm excited about the prospects, and not even slightly worried about TP's 3 pt %!

The only snag I see to TP starting from day 1 is Roy's honoring the sacrifices of Mr. Britt, and I see nothing wrong with this either. SCORING (could be with the timely assist also) not SHOOTING is needed from the 2!

 

[Archer2]

We will lose Brice and gain a significant portion from Hicks. We lose Marcus (who, no disrespect, was inconsistent) and see an increase from JB and Meeks. JJ and JB increase their 3pt makes. TP ADDS playmaking, rebounding (especially Offensive), energy, and a scary athletic slasher. He finds out he has a midrange game and we are set.

The only given here is "we lose Brice". Everything else is hopeful thinking. Believe me, I'm hoping the same things come to pass but they're not givens. I certainly expect Isaiah's production to increase significantly, he averaged 9/4.6 last year in only 18 MPG. If he can increase his minutes to 28-30 per game, he could conservatively average 15/8 next year. I'd be happy with that.

And while I expect more scoring from Joel, I don't think we can realistically expect a lot more from Kennedy. He hasn't shown the ability to play more than 20MPG, and it's only speculation to say his late season swoons have been health related. He may be healthier next year or he may not, perhaps the last three years is indicative of what we can realistically expect. To me, he is an enigma and I'm not sure what to expect. I hope you're correct and he improves significantly.

I don't think there's any doubt we'll get more production from both JJ and Theo. IMO, the heart of our team will be Joel, Theo, JJ, and Isaiah. We need all four to consistently play well in order to return to the Final Four.

We both agree that we need scoring from the SG spot. And while it doesn't have to come from long distance as you said, I think a significant portion of it will have to. Joel will get extra defensive attention as our only proven 3-point shooter and we can't just assume JJ will shoot significantly better from long distance. If Kenny, BRob, or 7th could add some punch from outside, it would relieve some pressure off of Joel/JJ and open up the inside for our bigs.

 

[DSouthr]

We need to score 80+ points, but they don't have to come from behind the arc. We will lose Brice and gain a significant portion from Hicks. We lose Marcus (who, no disrespect, was inconsistent) and see an increase from JB and Meeks. JJ and JB increase their 3pt makes. TP ADDS playmaking, rebounding (especially Offensive), energy, and a scary athletic slasher. He finds out he has a midrange game and we are set. Add in shooters, athletes, size, and D from the bench and we are gold! I'm excited about the prospects, and not even slightly worried about TP's 3 pt %!

The only snag I see to TP starting from day 1 is Roy's honoring the sacrifices of Mr. Britt, and I see nothing wrong with this either. SCORING (could be with the timely assist also) not SHOOTING is needed from the 2!

I respectfully disagree, every season we have different needs depending on the player mix we have. In some seasons we have great interior scorers, guys we can dump the ball in to and they just take over. In some seasons we don't have that dynamic inside dominating scorer that gets those easy inside buckets and in those seasons we have to shoot better from the outside in order to make up for what we don't get inside.

I see next season's team in a similar way in that I don't see that dominating inside scoring and right now I don't see the big man that draws out the opposing bigs like Brice did and be able to cash in those 15ft jumpers, I hope we can find that but as of right now we have not seen it from our returning guys. When we had jackie at the 2, we had big Sean to dump the ball in to and we had Jawad and Marvin that that could step outside. But we also had a very strong scoring wing in Rashad that could nail the treys all day as well as invert and post of wings inside. Now I like Justin a lot but I am not willy to put him at the level of Rashad yet, maybe Tony/Meeks/Hicks can become that easy score dump it in to the paint guy but I have not seen a Sean May or Tyler like guy returning from last season to our roster.

So that wheel has to turn to the outside shooting and specifically it has to have strong production from our 2 guard spot. And if you are going to get strong scoring from the 2 guard spot you just have to have a shooter there or a 2 so dynamic as a slasher that he is not stopped when he puts the ball on the floor and drives the paint. That isn't really Theo from either aspect IMO, not against defending 2 guards. It is one thing for him to put the ball on the floor vs a defending power forward or even a wing but against an opposing 2 guard defender that is not a great matchup for us, not unless Theo is posting up inside and for that to happen the inside has to be cleared out, meaning a 4 has to stretch outside and show he has to be guarded.

No, next season's team has to have that solid shooting 2 guard that can catch and shoot off the kickouts or defenses will pack the middle and ignor a wide open Theo 30ft out, just as they did with JP.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Everything you said in both posts is possible, but I think history suggests that more of what I hope for will actually materialize. The biggest thing I have the least confidence in is Meeks improvement. I am all in on Hicks as a dominant big. His unorthodox, awkward and aggressive style is hard to guard. He will just need to be on the floor longer to become dominant. I think many are not paying attention to Theo providing "scoring" through his playmaking and distribution. Smaller 2 guards will be posted , shot over in the midrange, or thrown over. 3's will be abused with quickness and would leave a small guy on JJ. JJ is an enigma, but I see some "quiet" alpha dog in him. He will find a way to impact the game!

 

[Archer2]

I'm not a bit worried about JJ. Watching the second alumni game, he showed me that he is going to be much more aggressive in taking the ball to the basket, something that can only bode well for us. I believe he will be our leading scorer. And I think we will see Joel completely take control of this team and be the alpha dog. I think his scoring will increase as well. I think they'll both average 15-18 PPG. The key for them is to stay within the offense, not force things, and take quality shots.

Theo can be a facilitator for our offense, he is a very good passer. And if Joel is scoring more, we need another person willing to drop the dime. I think Theo can be that guy. He can become a mismatch at the SF/PF spots. Theo averaged 4.5 PPG, 3.2 RPG, and 2.9 APG in only 18 MPG last year. I wouldn't be surprised if he doubles those numbers and leads us in assists next year, in addition to being a lockdown defender. IOW, even though I don't think he'll play the SG spot very much due to his questionble outside shot, I think he'll be our jack of all trades.

And I'm confident Isaiah can be a 15PPG scorer next year, if he can average 28-30 MPG. But I still think good perimeter shooting from the SG spot is critical to our success.