Shrinkage Factor

[Louigi]

I was going to post in NFL playoff thread, but I thought this deserved it's own thread. The patriots appear to be cheating once again.....


Report: NFL looking into whether Patriots "deflated footballs" in AFC title game
Posted by Mike Wilkening on January 19, 2015, 2:19 AM EST

Getty Images
As the attention of the football world turns to Super Bowl XLIX, there is reportedly some question about the game balls used in the AFC Championship.
Bob Kravitz of WTHR.com and NBC's WTHR-TV in Indianapolis reports the NFL is looking into whether the Patriots to be weighed.
According to the NFL's 2014 rule book, game balls are to be inflated with between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds of air. Per NFL rules, home and road teams must provide 12 game balls apiece to be tested and approved by the league 135 minutes before game time. The home team also has to have 12 reserve game balls on hand to be tested, with the road team also having that option in outdoor games.
Kravitz reports punishment for deflation could involve the NFL taking away draft selections. That prospect, however, would seemingly have to be tied to having proof of intent to deflate the ball with an eye on getting an edge, perhaps by making the ball easier to grip.
The Patriots lost their 2008 first-round pick as punishment for taping Jets signals. Head coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000, and the Patriots were docked $250,000.

This post was edited on 1/21 8:16 PM by Louigi

limp ball syndrome

 

[TarHeelMark]

Re: Deflate Gate

I don't think this would surprise anyone, except for the chowder-heads that think Belli-Cheat is a god.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Re: Deflate Gate

Everyone plays with the same balls. So even if they were deflated, how is it an advantage?

 

[TarHeelMark]

Re: Deflate Gate

I thought each offense has their own set of game balls that they use?

 

[UNC71-00]

Re: Deflate Gate

Why wouldn't the NFL be in charge of game balls? Why would they ever let either team handle except on the field of play?

 

[Raising Heel]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
Everyone plays with the same balls.

Your opinion on all things football-related is now invalid. That includes uniforms.

 

[coryfly]

Re: Deflate Gate

Patriots are going to cheat. This is nothing new, though it is not necessary since they are pretty incredible.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
Everyone plays with the same balls.

Your opinion on all things football-related is now invalid. That includes uniforms.

Awww, looks like someone else is sore.

I take your smartass response to mean that each team plays with a different set of balls. I'm not sure that's the case or that's what you were saying, but let's assume that's the case. You'd be inferring that Colts players had the more difficult task of catching Luck's passes than the Pats players had in catching Brady's passes. Hmmmm, then how were those interceptions that Luck threw caught by Pats players? That's weird.

Secondly, I just ran a little test of my own. I have a football. My son and I just inflated the football to the league requirement of 12.5-13.5. I threw the ball. My son caught it. Then we deflated the ball. I threw it again...and here's the kicker - my son caught it again! Whoa!

Everyone here knows I'm a huge Luck fan so it's not like I was "rooting" for the Patriots. But all these people crying foul are just making excuses. I'll concede that if the balls were indeed deflated, that had they corrected the problem before the game started that the Colts might have scored a whopping 14 points to make their loss look not quite as much of a blow out.

While I detest the term "haters", I will acknowledge that they are out in full force today. Why is so hard for people to recognize that the Brady-Belichick combo might be the greatest ever?

 

[Raising Heel]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
Everyone plays with the same balls.

Your opinion on all things football-related is now invalid. That includes uniforms.

Awww, looks like someone else is sore.

I'm sore? You're the one who just posted an apologetic missive.

I don't mind the Pats a bit. I was just poking fun at your football IQ. Lighten up, Francis.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
Everyone plays with the same balls.

Your opinion on all things football-related is now invalid. That includes uniforms.

Awww, looks like someone else is sore.

I'm sore? You're the one who just posted an apologetic missive.

I don't mind the Pats a bit. I was just poking fun at your football IQ. Lighten up, Francis.

So, with your great football mind, can you please explain how the footballs are used in an NFL game?

 

[gunslingerdick]

Re: Deflate Gate

.

"I've heard it all at this point"

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Re: Deflate Gate

LOL @ how many people get so butt-hurt about the Patriots. They're just really good.

Maybe it's my ever-declining interest in the NFL flaring up, but, I can't be bothered enough to even pretend to get upset about the Pats -- or any NFL team -- cheating or not cheating.

History is written by the winners. Brady/Bellichick have lots of ink and quills at their disposal.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:
LOL @ how many people get so butt-hurt about the Patriots. They're just really good.

 

[Raising Heel]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

can you please explain how the footballs are used in an NFL game?

Same as college. Each offense provides its own ball. If you look at the ball itself, you can see the team logo imprinted like in this shot:

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

can you please explain how the footballs are used in an NFL game?

Same as college. Each offense provides its own ball. If you look at the ball itself, you can see the team logo imprinted like in this shot:

Wish we had finished that game off........

 

[TarHeelMark]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

can you please explain how the footballs are used in an NFL game?

Same as college. Each offense provides its own ball. If you look at the ball itself, you can see the team logo imprinted like in this shot:

Wish we had finished that game off........

shhh... the uniform nazis will come crawling.
(but the all black did look pretty cool)

 

[gunslingerdick]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by UNC71-00:
Why wouldn't the NFL be in charge of game balls? Why would they ever let either team handle except on the field of play?

If they want the balls to be exact, the NFL should be in charge of providing them. I agree.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by TarHeelMark:

Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

can you please explain how the footballs are used in an NFL game?

Same as college. Each offense provides its own ball. If you look at the ball itself, you can see the team logo imprinted like in this shot:

Wish we had finished that game off........

shhh... the uniform nazis will come crawling.
(but the all black did look pretty cool)

Recruits love them.

 

[coryfly]

Re: Deflate Gate

I don't think anyone is questioning their greatness. I certainly don't think anyone is saying that is why they won. It is just the repeated cases of cheating. It seems reasonable to criticize them a bit when it seems to happen over and over. This is at least the third shady thing they have done over the years. I can't really remember another team being accused of similar things even once over the years. As for the balls, I've heard numerous people who actually played in the league say it would certainly help, especially in that weather, if the balls were slightly deflated. They would probably know more than us. It most definitely was not the reason they won. I don't even think it takes away from their consistent greatness. I do hope they lose some draft picks though. Obviously, being a Dolphins fan that would be nice. I am also undoubtedly biased here.

Of course, this could be just a bunch of nonsense as well. If so, there is still nothing negative about equating the Patriot name to cheating. That benefits us all.

This post was edited on 1/19 4:46 PM by coryfly

 

[gunslingerdick]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by coryfly:

just a bunch of nonsense.

bump

 

[gteeitup]

Re: Deflate Gate

stupid

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Re: Deflate Gate

Much ado about nothing.

 

[heelmanwilm]

Re: Deflate Gate

Qb's have their preferences. Brady evidently likes to play with soft malleable balls.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[GACMAN]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
Everyone plays with the same balls.

Your opinion on all things football-related is now invalid. That includes uniforms.

Awww, looks like someone else is sore.

I take your smartass response to mean that each team plays with a different set of balls. I'm not sure that's the case or that's what you were saying, but let's assume that's the case. You'd be inferring that Colts players had the more difficult task of catching Luck's passes than the Pats players had in catching Brady's passes. Hmmmm, then how were those interceptions that Luck threw caught by Pats players? That's weird.

Secondly, I just ran a little test of my own. I have a football. My son and I just inflated the football to the league requirement of 12.5-13.5. I threw the ball. My son caught it. Then we deflated the ball. I threw it again...and here's the kicker - my son caught it again! Whoa!

Everyone here knows I'm a huge Luck fan so it's not like I was "rooting" for the Patriots. But all these people crying foul are just making excuses. I'll concede that if the balls were indeed deflated, that had they corrected the problem before the game started that the Colts might have scored a whopping 14 points to make their loss look not quite as much of a blow out.

While I detest the term "haters", I will acknowledge that they are out in full force today. Why is so hard for people to recognize that the Brady-Belichick combo might be the greatest ever?

I think the issue is that deflated balls are easier to throw/grip in the wet conditions that they had during the game verses a fully inflated ball...not sure anything was mentioned about catching the ball...may explain some of the errant throws that Luck made...I think the better team won but I would hate it if this proves to be correct!

 

[Blue2010]

Re: Deflate Gate

NFL confirmed that 11 out of the 12 footballs were deflated. While I personally don't think that makes even the remotest of impacts to a game that ended 45-7, it's the principle of it. To me, it is no different than MLB players using PEDs. No, the PEDs don't help the batter make contact with the ball, but it damn sure makes sure when they do, it goes further.

So...while these footballs didn't cause the Colts to lose necessarily...I'm sure, with rainy conditions, it helped Blount not fumble or any other scenario where the added grip would be beneficial. If the argument is - well, both teams had equal opportunity here b/c both played with the same football....the difference to me is that one side here prepared for that (clearly) and knew they had the competitive advantage.

Bottom line - it is blatantly - again - cheating, and the NFL needs to deal with this. If they are going to make an example out of other situations, then they need to avoid the hypocrisy of giving the Patriots yet another pass just b/c of their stature.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Re: Deflate Gate

Why didn't the zebras notice a difference? They have to catch-spot the ball on about every play.

 

[BillyL]

Re: Deflate Gate


The fact that the balls were tested before the game and then deflated afterwards is a little disappointing to me. Maybe the outcome of the game wasn't decided because of it, but, the NFL will have to do something to protect the integrity of the sport.

What if the game score were 28-27 . . ? Would there be an even bigger uproar . . ?

The Pathetic Pats . . . smh.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by Blue2010:
NFL confirmed that 11 out of the 12 footballs were deflated. While I personally don't think that makes even the remotest of impacts to a game that ended 45-7, it's the principle of it. To me, it is no different than MLB players using PEDs. No, the PEDs don't help the batter make contact with the ball, but it damn sure makes sure when they do, it goes further.

I liken it to pine tar on a pitcher's cap and him rubbing a little on the ball before a pitch. I do not equate it to PEDs. In my comparison, the offender is doctoring the equipment which is different than the operator of the equipment gaining a physical advantage.

So is it gamesmanship or is it cheating?

 

[Blue2010]

Re: Deflate Gate

Cheating is cheating IMO.

I'm not sure what the just punishment is, but the slap on the wrist just isn't acceptable. There is a repeated pattern of behavior here. There are so many dominos that could fall into place with something like this -- for example, if you feel like the opponent - Colts in this case - are more vulnerable if you jump out early on them and force them to be one-dimensional....so you go with deflated footballs to give better grip when catching passes...which helps you jump out to a 10+ point lead quickly. You may innocently switch back to legal footballs at that point, but the damage is done...you've cheated your way to changing the entire dynamic of the game and forcing the other team to play catch-up, which leads to huge momentum for your team being at home, and then many times leads to turnovers.

It's things like that that might seem shady, but not that impactful....when in the grand scheme, was very impactful and had a huge affect...just gets clouded by the final score.

If the NFL threatened to hold M.Lynch out of the Super Bowl b/c of cleats not adhering to their uniform code, then I'm sorry -- you have to call a spade a spade and treat Belicheat in the same manner. The era of hypocrisy in the NFL has got to end.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by gunslingerdick:

Originally posted by Blue2010:
NFL confirmed that 11 out of the 12 footballs were deflated. While I personally don't think thatmakes even the remotest of impacts to a game that ended 45-7, it's the principle of it. To me, it isno different than MLB players using PEDs. No, the PEDs don't help the batter make contact withthe ball, but it damn sure makes sure when they do, it goes further.

I liken it to pine tar on a pitcher's cap and him rubbing a little on the ball before a pitch. I do not equate it toPEDs. In my comparison, the offender is doctoring the equipment which is different than the operator of theequipment gaining a physical advantage.

So is it gamesmanship or is it cheating?

Good analogy -- it is pretty much like pine tar for a pitcher. As to your question......Super Bowl winning QB Brad Johnson would argue that it's gamesmanship, not cheating

(he paid $7,500 to have footballs scuffed before Super Bowl XXXVII)

 

[Heels in Space]

Re: Deflate Gate

Originally posted by heelmanwilm:
Brady evidently likes to play with soft malleable balls.

The 12-year-old boy in me thinks this is really funny.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Re: Deflate Gate

One thing for sure.....................................they have created an EVIL vs GOOD show down. Lot more Seattle fans now!

 

[Louigi]

In Honor of a classic Seinfeld episode, I hereby rename this thread.

As for the refs not noticing: Maybe they are part of the conspiracy. Remember those Cheating NBA refs not so long ago?

More and more proof the Pats were cheating coming out each day....

 

[TarHeelMark]

this is hilarious...



LOL at Deflate Gate

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by TarHeelMark:

this is hilarious...

Well done . .

 

[coolwaterunc]

 

[gunslingerdick]

Please open this link and read an essay from NFL D-lineman, Chris Long. I plan on posting this in the other 2 Deflategate threads. This is an articulate, well thought out, reasonable take on all of this.



http://www.theplayerstribune.com/deflategate/