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SI on hottest names on coaching carousel

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WoadBlue

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Aug 15, 2008
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Before the first kickoff, it may be a pleasant diversion to think about probable coaches moving on.

The #1 is Tulsa's Philip Montgomery. He is a native Texan, and as the 2 big jobs in the Big 12 are filled with 1st year HCs, expect Montgomery to be ready to move 75 miles east if Bielema falters again. Many Hawg boosters want an offense that passes more, and all of them want to win more and have a coach with strong TX ties to help recruit TX.

#3 is App State's Scott Satterfield. He is a fine young coach who might love to be in the ACC. But what ACC jobs will open?

#6 is UCF's Scott Frost. His short time in FL has given him the southeast experience that should make him a hot prospect for both ACC and SEC teams.

#10 is Colorado St's Mike Bobo, a UGA player and OC. He knows the southeast inside out. I expect both ACC and SEC teams to keep a close eye on him.

#11 is Memphis' Mike Norvell. He is a protege of Todd Graham and knows the southwest best. I think his wife is from AR, which makes the Memphis job ideal for him in many ways. As would the Hawg job. I have heard an Ole Miss booster say he would love to have Norvell.
 
WoadBlue said:
teams.
#10 is Colorado St's Mike Bobo, a UGA player and OC. He knows the southeast inside out. I expect both ACC and SEC teams to keep a close eye on him.
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This is a good shout. Bobo is a Thomasville, Ga. (extreme South Georgia) native and has done a really good job at Colorado State and was a great OC at UGA. They play tomorrow night.
 
TarHeelNation11 said:
This is a good shout. Bobo is a Thomasville, Ga. (extreme South Georgia) native and has done a really good job at Colorado State and was a great OC at UGA. They play tomorrow night.
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The Rams are up 17 on Oregon St right now - 13 minutes left.

You can bet a lot of ADs in the SEC and ACC are keeping tabs.
 
tarheel0910 said:
If we fire Fedora, either we'll get another coach who will get us 6-8 wins every year or the next bunting. Unless Saban decides he wants to take on a new challenge and do the impossible, we aren't getting any better as a program.
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See, I just don't buy that. I just don't think we've found the right coach yet.
 
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Archer2 said:
See, I just don't buy that. I just don't think we've found the right coach yet.
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Well, I've been on this planet for almost 33 years. In those three decades we've had one coach who has put together two good seasons in a row. The only way we might be able to get over the hump is to get a big name coach to come here. That's never going to happen.
 
tarheel0910 said:
Well, I've been on this planet for almost 33 years. In those three decades we've had one coach who has put together two good seasons in a row. The only way we might be able to get over the hump is to get a big name coach to come here. That's never going to happen.
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But everything is there for it to be done. The right coach can get UNC football where it belongs.

At this point, I have my doubts that Fedora can ever beat any SEC team, even one with a terrible record, or any other big game against a non-ACC team. Add to that an inability to dominate Dook and Moo, and Fedora should be rubbing more and more boosters the wrong way.
 
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6 years and he has brought the program the best season it has had since Mack Brown left.

But, he still doesn't seem to possess the consistency or the ability to win big. And, unless he has a team like 2015 and 16, he's going to be around the 6-6, 7-5, 5-7 area
 
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WoadBlue said:
But everything is there for it to be done. The right coach can get UNC football where it belongs.
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Everything has been there for a long time. How many decades have we been known as the sleeping giant? Maybe UNC football is already where it belongs.
 
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Sleeping giant.... I haven't heard that in a few years. I'm guessing the so-called experts have decided we'll never be much more than a fringe top 25 team, and that's only about every other year.
 
tarheel0910 said:
Well, I've been on this planet for almost 33 years. In those three decades we've had one coach who has put together two good seasons in a row. The only way we might be able to get over the hump is to get a big name coach to come here. That's never going to happen.
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The ONLY reason that would never happen is because of the school and fans

To get a great coach you have to have the facilities and be willing to throw out the money.
 
tarheel0910 said:
We've got the facilities and money. That's not a problem.
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Yes, I'm very new to UNC fanhood (two years worth), but it's hard to see as a relative outsider why we would be unable to field a good football program. Flagship school in a big state that loves college sports, with no other dominant program in the state. Looking at a few other schools it's hard to see why we CAN'T be them:

1. Oregon: Smaller student population, endowment, and stadium than UNC. Much smaller state with few football recruiting prospects. Less well known brand nationally (at least until their recent football surge). Yes the have Phil Knight but their athletic spending is not near the Texas/OSU giants most years. Oregon should be the textbook example of our potential; I see no advantage they have over us except one powerful booster. In 1994 Oregon had gone almost 50 years since the last time they had won more than 8 games. Since then they've won 9+ games 15 times, and won 10+ 10 times in the last 17 years. Talk about Oregon now and the first thing you think of is football success (or crazy football uniforms).

2. Baylor. Granted maybe their success is solely due to unethical practices, in which case screw that. But they've won 10+ games four of the last five years after having double digit wins once in their entire history before that. It's a much smaller school, with less money, in the middle of nowhere, and with a smaller stadium than ours. About the only thing they've got going for them is being in a talent rich state.

3. Stanford: They had one 10+ win season since 1940 until Jim Harbaugh changed the program. Since 2010 they've won 10+ games six times in seven years. Growing up in the Bay Area I've been to quite a few Stanford games. There is ZERO college football culture in the Bay Area. Half the people couldn't tell you what Stanford's mascot is. Their stadium and attendance are both smaller than ours. The school as a whole is much richer than UNC, but they don't spend more on athletics. They just brought in a great coach, and his successor looks just as good.

4. OK State: Three 10 win seasons in the 80's, but otherwise zero in their entire history until 2010. They've since had five 10+ win seasons in seven years with Mike Gundy, and 11 winning seasons in a row. There is quite a bit more football passion in Oklahoma of course, but their stadium is smaller than ours and attendance isn't any higher. They've got less money, and are in a pretty dry area for recruits (and not a super desirable location).

5. Wisconsin: Had literally only one season winning even 8 games in their first 40 years in the Big Ten (1953-1993). Then Barry Alvarez came along and they won 10+ games 3 times in the mid/late 90's, plus another 8 times in the 2000's, including 15 winning seasons in a row. They have a bigger stadium and more attendance (they're the only game in town), but they're in a much smaller state with less football talent and until the Big 10 Network came along didn't have any more money than us.

We most likely won't ever be Michigan, Alabama, or USC. But why can't we be Oregon, Stanford, or OK State?
 
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tarheel0910 said:
Everything has been there for a long time. How many decades have we been known as the sleeping giant? Maybe UNC football is already where it belongs.
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Despair always makes you a loser.

Red Sox and Cubs fans had it much worse.

It is a matter of lightning in a bottle. The right coach can and will do it. But if you spend Bunting=typr years giving every guy a chance to prove he might grow into being the right coach, you delay the process of finding the right coach.

Once again, I am going hardcore. Years ago, looking back at coaches across the country and time, I came up with the 3 Year Rule: When you factor in matters such as probations, almost always you can see within 3 years whether a coach is likely to take the program to its next level.

If in this market it is possible, I'd like to see coaches hired with that in mind, which would mean making it fairly easy to dismiss coaches after 3 years, and most assuredly 4.

And then you need the AD with the grit to do it.
 
gauchoheel said:
Yes, I'm very new to UNC fanhood (two years worth), but it's hard to see as a relative outsider why we would be unable to field a good football program. Flagship school in a big state that loves college sports, with no other dominant program in the state. Looking at a few other schools it's hard to see why we CAN'T be them:

1. Oregon: Smaller student population, endowment, and stadium than UNC. Much smaller state with few football recruiting prospects. Less well known brand nationally (at least until their recent football surge). Yes the have Phil Knight but their athletic spending is not near the Texas/OSU giants most years. Oregon should be the textbook example of our potential; I see no advantage they have over us except one powerful booster. In 1994 Oregon had gone almost 50 years since the last time they had won more than 8 games. Since then they've won 9+ games 15 times, and won 10+ 10 times in the last 17 years. Talk about Oregon now and the first thing you think of is football success (or crazy football uniforms).

2. Baylor. Granted maybe their success is solely due to unethical practices, in which case screw that. But they've won 10+ games four of the last five years after having double digit wins once in their entire history before that. It's a much smaller school, with less money, in the middle of nowhere, and with a smaller stadium than ours. About the only thing they've got going for them is being in a talent rich state.

3. Stanford: They had one 10+ win season since 1940 until Jim Harbaugh changed the program. Since 2010 they've won 10+ games six times in seven years. Growing up in the Bay Area I've been to quite a few Stanford games. There is ZERO college football culture in the Bay Area. Half the people couldn't tell you what Stanford's mascot is. Their stadium and attendance are both smaller than ours. The school as a whole is much richer than UNC, but they don't spend more on athletics. They just brought in a great coach, and his successor looks just as good.

4. OK State: Three 10 win seasons in the 80's, but otherwise zero in their entire history until 2010. They've since had five 10+ win seasons in seven years with Mike Gundy, and 11 winning seasons in a row. There is quite a bit more football passion in Oklahoma of course, but their stadium is smaller than ours and attendance isn't any higher. They've got less money, and are in a pretty dry area for recruits (and not a super desirable location).

5. Wisconsin: Had literally only one season winning even 8 games in their first 40 years in the Big Ten (1953-1993). Then Barry Alvarez came along and they won 10+ games 3 times in the mid/late 90's, plus another 8 times in the 2000's, including 15 winning seasons in a row. They have a bigger stadium and more attendance (they're the only game in town), but they're in a much smaller state with less football talent and until the Big 10 Network came along didn't have any more money than us.

We most likely won't ever be Michigan, Alabama, or USC. But why can't we be Oregon, Stanford, or OK State?
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Absolutely key to Oregon, Stanford, Baylor, and Oklahoma St was securing that right coach: respectively, Bellotti, Harbaugh, Briles, Gundy, Alvarez. Even T. Boone Pickens' money could not have done it by itself. If Ok St had hired Bunting instead of Gundy, Ok St today would be in worse shape than we are now.

That right coach, who is ideal for UNC and the ACC, can do for UNC football what, say, Alvarez did for Wisconsin. Look at the Big Ten championships, division titles, bowl Ws, Top 10 teams, and Heisman candidates and winners Wisconsin has had since Alvarez.
 
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B3rry said:
The ONLY reason that would never happen is because of the school and fans

To get a great coach you have to have the facilities and be willing to throw out the money.
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You first need Vision. Most Pac people laughed at Stanford for hiring Harbaugh. He coached non-scholarship 1-AA, meaning: Ivy League level. That is lesser football than the SoCon, which is top level 1-AA scholarship.

K-State had the worst football history in the Big 8. It was the biggest joke of of every program in Major conference history. Wake Forest had more history. And then K-St hired some strange Hayden Fry protegee named Bill Snyder. The country yawned.

Bill Snyder single-handedly created a football power in a state that produces no talent.
 
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As much as I like Larry, I've never been a huge fan of teams with spread offenses and weak defenses (read Big12). Trying to win every game 45-42 gets old as hell to me. I'd prefer the more traditional approach, but what the hell do I know?
 
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WoadBlue said:
You first need Vision. Most Pac people laughed at Stanford for hiring Harbaugh. He coached non-scholarship 1-AA, meaning: Ivy League level. That is lesser football than the SoCon, which is top level 1-AA scholarship.

K-State had the worst football history in the Big 8. It was the biggest joke of of every program in Major conference history. Wake Forest had more history. And then K-St hired some strange Hayden Fry protegee named Bill Snyder. The country yawned.

Bill Snyder single-handedly created a football power in a state that produces no talent.
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Yep, K-State is another great example. They have zero institutional advantages over us. Just a better coach.
 
WoadBlue said:
Despair always makes you a loser.

Red Sox and Cubs fans had it much worse.

It is a matter of lightning in a bottle. The right coach can and will do it. But if you spend Bunting=typr years giving every guy a chance to prove he might grow into being the right coach, you delay the process of finding the right coach.

Once again, I am going hardcore. Years ago, looking back at coaches across the country and time, I came up with the 3 Year Rule: When you factor in matters such as probations, almost always you can see within 3 years whether a coach is likely to take the program to its next level.

If in this market it is possible, I'd like to see coaches hired with that in mind, which would mean making it fairly easy to dismiss coaches after 3 years, and most assuredly 4.

And then you need the AD with the grit to do it.
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It's not despair, it's factual. UNC has never had a sustained period of excellence in all of its history. The expectation that we should be good is one of the current reasons for fan apathy. Accept what we have been historically and enjoy what we win, instead of being depressed about what we lose. Doesn't mean we should stop trying to be better just because we accept who we are.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
It's not despair, it's factual. UNC has never had a sustained period of excellence in all of its history. The expectation that we should be good is one of the current reasons for fan apathy. Accept what we have been historically and enjoy what we win, instead of being depressed about what we lose. Doesn't mean we should stop trying to be better just because we accept who we are.
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Iowa had about 15 consecutive non-winning seasons before Hayden Fry got the team to the Rose Bowl in his 3rd year.

We've never been that bad. And NC has much more talent than IA.

If we make the right hire, UNC football becomes a major player on the national scene.
 
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To be fair to Fedora, did y'all see that Kevin Sumlin and the Aggies blew a 31 point lead to UCLA? Sumlin has recruited out the wazoo, and has almost nothing to show for it. Not a single division title. His first 2 teams were his best, and those were the ones manned by players signed by Mike Sherman.

If A&M had wanted Fedora, we might have Sumlin. I have no reason to think Sumlin would have done any better at UNC than Fedora has.

Yes, it is very hard to find that right coach. But if you settle, you never will find him.
 
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This link is to the Coaches Hot Seat page on Sumlin. The important item is mid page: Bear Bryant talking about the need for players to prepare by mastering all the little details.

That is the only way a UNC football rises: coaching that stresses the fundamentals and mastering details. We are not getting that from Fedora.
 
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UNC71-00 said:
We really don't have the facilities though, at least not compared to the top tier of CFB
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Our facilities are far and away better than the average football program. It should be more than enough to get us to the next level. It doesn't have to be better than Alabama, Michigan or Clemson. Hell, not a single sports program on campus has the best facilities in their respective sports. They seem to be doing ok.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
Our facilities are far and away better than the average football program. It should be more than enough to get us to the next level. It doesn't have to be better than Alabama, Michigan or Clemson. Hell, not a single sports program on campus has the best facilities in their respective sports. They seem to be doing ok.
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Exactly.

When Snyder took over at Kansas St, people laughed at the 'high school' facilities. The worst facilities in the Big 8 did not prevent Snyder from building a program that expected to win every year. He's had 7 teams win 11 games. At the school with the worst football history in the Big 8 until he arrived.

I think key to getting that right coach is to find somebody mentored by a coach who knew how to build up. Snyder, like Barry Alvarez, was mentored by Hayden Fry. Fry got SMU back to winning (but not like its one great period in the 1940s) and then got fired for not wining enough, and then rebuilt Iowa, which was hopeless for nearly 2 decades when he arrived. Fry knew how to build from nothing. His protegees learned that from him.

Fedora has never rebuilt, or significantly built up. Southern Miss has a long history of solid teams. Fedora's USM predecesor Jeff Bower was anmed CUSA Coach of the Decade in 2004.

Perhaps we need a coach who has proven he can rebuild or can build way up from the program's previous history.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
Our facilities are far and away better than the average football program. It should be more than enough to get us to the next level. It doesn't have to be better than Alabama, Michigan or Clemson. Hell, not a single sports program on campus has the best facilities in their respective sports. They seem to be doing ok.
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What is the next level? Give me a few teams that aren't on the top tier but are above us.

And basketball has top tier facilities. So does baseball. And soccer/lacrosse/field hockey will too when renovations are complete.
 
UNC71-00 said:
What is the next level? Give me a few teams that aren't on the top tier but are above us.
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I would say any team that is consistently in the top 25.

UNC71-00 said:
And basketball has top tier facilities.
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They have some very good ones, but there are plenty out there that are better.

UNC71-00 said:
So does baseball.
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See above.

UNC71-00 said:
And soccer/lacrosse/field hockey will too when renovations are complete.
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Ok, but as of now they all have been kicking ass with average, at best, facilities.
 
UNC71-00 said:
What is the next level? Give me a few teams that aren't on the top tier but are above us.
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Really? I listed 5 such programs that are above us a few posts ago. Oregon, Stanford, OK State, Wisconsin, Baylor. Kansas State and Iowa are two other great call outs.

Again, we won't be Alabama or Michigan. Why can't we be Iowa? Why can't we be OK State?

We've won 9+ games once this century. Iowa's done it six times. OK State's done it 8 times. Kansas fricken State has done it seven times.
 
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gauchoheel said:
Really? I listed 5 such programs that are above us a few posts ago. Oregon, Stanford, OK State, Wisconsin, Baylor. Kansas State and Iowa are two other great call outs.

Again, we won't be Alabama or Michigan. Why can't we be Iowa? Why can't we be OK State?

We've won 9+ games once this century. Iowa's done it six times. OK State's done it 8 times. Kansas fricken State has done it seven times.
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How many of those programs have worse facilities than Carolina's?
 
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UNC71-00 said:
How many of those programs have worse facilities than Carolina's?
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I can't really speak to that fully, but I think you're overstating the importance of nice facilities. Most Power 5 teams have nice stadiums now, decked out weight rooms, and indoor practice facilities. We've got the first two, and the indoor facility will be done shortly. After that there's only so much you can do facility wise.

I don't think recruits care much at all about stadiums, other than total capacity and atmosphere. They play in it, they're not sitting in the seats or buying hot dogs. But if it did matter, I can tell you Kenan is much nicer than the Rose Bowl or the Coliseum. Our atmosphere is not great, but it's as good as Stanford and K-State, and honestly probably similar to Oregon, OK State, and Baylor (all of them have smaller stadiums than ours, Baylor's is almost 20k seats smaller).

I think the facilities are a non-issue. Recruits want good coaches to develop them for the NFL, they want to play and to win, a good location, and they want the glamour life of being BMOC for students/fans who care about football. We can't fully deliver on the last one (at least not right now) but neither can Stanford or K-State. The other three though our within our power. We have the money to get a good coach, we can obviously give playing time, and there are plenty of recruits in the area. Plus UNC is a huge brand, a great school, a great town, etc.
 
gauchoheel said:
I can't really speak to that fully, but I think you're overstating the importance of nice facilities. Most Power 5 teams have nice stadiums now, decked out weight rooms, and indoor practice facilities. We've got the first two, and the indoor facility will be done shortly. After that there's only so much you can do facility wise.
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Yep, the most overrated aspect of "program building" is the facilities. There are so many other things more important and necessary. Mack got us to a top 10 program before he left and we had some of the worst facilities in the country. All of our olympic sports have average facilities (they are being upgraded though) and the Bosh was crap when Fox first got there. The facilities didn't become good until after we started winning. Football has been lucky because they have great facilities despite not winning, at least compared to the other programs.
 
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SI has an article on PSU OC Joe Moorhead. Moorhead is a very hot commodity now. Before he totally renovated PSU's offense, he was HC at his alma mater Fordham.

Moorhead will be HC at a P5 school before long.
 
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