Stats and stuff (BC game 2)...

[gary-7]

.....and obviously this one has to start with our concern for Roy. It was good at least to hear it was vertigo related and he was able to come back to the court after the game.

Anyway, here's what I have:

- Only 2 Fast Break pts, 16 Secondary Break and too many blown Assists (although sometimes we had unwanted help with that)

- Obviously Roy shook up the lineup to send a message --- and it looked like it might backfire --- but I think it was eventually received. On the unintended side of that, I think Brice came out too pumped if anything. Son, you're 6'10 with long arms --- don't take a pump fake from a Big from outside 10 feet.

- On the other hand, kudos to Brice for keeping his cool when BC guys were hacking him (3rd one got called) trying to get that late steal, and kudos for securing the ball after the first of those uncalled hacks caused the ball to get away for a second.

- Big kudos to Kennedy for some very good defense, and especially that heady anticipation steal that sealed the game.

- Kudos to Theo for a lot of hustle and timely plays.

- Kudos to Marcus for a big second half, including big shots and strong defense down the stretch.

- Kudos to Berry on a night when his 3-ball wasn't falling. played tough-as-nails and pulled Ironman minutes in the second half and came up with key takes to the paint and 2 big steals, to go with 6 dimes (4 more blown).

- HUGE kudos to Justin. If anyone took the benching to heart, he sure as hell did. Played like the "Walking Buckets" we expected to see --- 9/11 FGs, 2/3 from deep. Didn't hesitate on his 3-balls and broke the ice. And here'e the thing: In all our concern about Paige's slump, we were also really missing JJ's mid-range game. Having a guy who can slash and be money from 15 ft -in is damned big.

- HUGE kudos to Coach Robinson. Coached one helluva second half. Played the right personnel at the right times and made some nice play calls. My favorite was the set play that resulted in a big Paige 3 from the corner... and the execution was spot on. I love the way we sold the roll action off the screen --- JB absolutely froze their help guy before he swung the dime to a wide-open Marcus. Money!

- Finally, the ex-coach buddy I was watching the game with (who is not a Carolina fan, BTW) at one point late in the second half he shook his head and said, "wow... every time you guys get within a bucket the zebras seem to make a call to keep you back. I don't know... just doesn't smell good."
I'll just leave that here without further comment.

Bottom line: forget who we were playing --- congrats to the team and coaches for a gritty win under the direst of circumstances. Now let's come out smokin' against a tough Pitt team Sunday.

 

[TarHeelTroy]

Great points. I'd just like to add how good it was to see us diving for loose balls and coming up with them. Hustle and toughness is a sure fire way to get this team out of a slump. After a game where many fans are left with a bad taste, I did see some positive signs. Always good to get a win on the road in the ACC

 

[coryfly]

Thankful for Justin's play and Paige being clutch late. Berry and Britt both had some good moments and were solid. The frontcourt was a struggle all night. I have no idea why Roy thought it was a good idea to not start Brice.

 

[Ozheelfan]

Gary, thanks as always but I reckon you're being way too generous towards Meeks and a little too nice to Brice.

Kennedy found himself wanting several times on high ball screens (how often do we see it) and he seemed to be a little too single minded when he got the ball in the paint (taking the tough shot attempt instead of the easy pass)

Brice also was left wanting on defence. Clifford is no slouch but he's not a finalist for Wooden and Malone awards either. Tonight he made the Brice Johnson All American talk look a little off mark.

Joel was very good on, as you said, a tough night. Britt was too in his limited minutes back.

Theo is terrific energy but my heart stops everytime he launches from beyond the arc. The mechanics are not good which makes him streaky and against BC the streakiness was not good.

Marcus: A game of two halves. He is being very tightly defended and seems to be trying to work through that defence while still keeping the offence humming. At times I wish he'd be a little more selfish early in games. Down the stretch Marcus hunted his shot a little more and landed some big trophies. He and Jackson were integral during the late second half run.

And yes, great to see Justin going with his own shot a little more too!

 

[gobblercalls]

How many teams in college basketball would have played Louisville close with the muggings they got away with, had a chance to beat ND with a -17 free throw discrepancy, and beat BC on the road with Carter and Clifford having great nights and a -9 free throw discrepancy until BC started fouling at the end. All this team needs to get out of it's "funk" is a fair chance to compete. In a fairly officiated game the Heels are still the best team in the country.

 

[Spacegrass]

Thankful for Justin's play and Paige being clutch late. Berry and Britt both had some good moments and were solid. The frontcourt was a struggle all night. I have no idea why Roy thought it was a good idea to not start Brice.

Because despite him putting up good numbers he has been sloppy with his play last 3-4 games. I think part of Brice's problem is he thinks he is way better then he really is. He at times has looked like he is just going thru the motions last couple of weeks right when it seemed he had turned the corner.

 

[Archer2]

Good points by all.

 

[coryfly]

Because despite him putting up good numbers he has been sloppy with his play last 3-4 games. I think part of Brice's problem is he thinks he is way better then he really is. He at times has looked like he is just going thru the motions last couple of weeks right when it seemed he had turned the corner.

Yeah, I don't think he has been that bad. He has missed some of those shots around the basket but has still been quite good overall. I think the effort angle is overblown. Sometimes he lacks awareness and gets lost and that is considered coasting. I know that is what you mean by sloppy but that is just part of his game you have to live with. The team is much better better when he is playing and that is ultimately what is important. I don't like sending a message to the one guy who has performed the most consistently above average all year long. Send a message to Justin and Meeks. I felt the message to Brice was forced.

 

[gary-7]

Gary, thanks as always but I reckon you're being way too generous towards Meeks and a little too nice to Brice.

Kennedy found himself wanting several times on high ball screens (how often do we see it) and he seemed to be a little too single minded when he got the ball in the paint (taking the tough shot attempt instead of the easy pass)

Brice also was left wanting on defence. Clifford is no slouch but he's not a finalist for Wooden and Malone awards either. Tonight he made the Brice Johnson All American talk look a little off mark.

Joel was very good on, as you said, a tough night. Britt was too in his limited minutes back.

Theo is terrific energy but my heart stops everytime he launches from beyond the arc. The mechanics are not good which makes him streaky and against BC the streakiness was not good.

Marcus: A game of two halves. He is being very tightly defended and seems to be trying to work through that defence while still keeping the offence humming. At times I wish he'd be a little more selfish early in games. Down the stretch Marcus hunted his shot a little more and landed some big trophies. He and Jackson were integral during the late second half run.

And yes, great to see Justin going with his own shot a little more too!

I think you're undervaluing Kennedy's defensive efforts. He keeps his feet better than Brice does, held his gap on the perimeter better than some previous games, and is very crafty. Got absolutely shafted by the zebra on that last shot block, BTW. Speaking of invented calls, calling a damned offensive foul on JB when he got literally body-blocked out of bounds may have been the worst thing I've seen all season. My buddy may have been on to something... this game had a rather sketchy smell to it.

 

[jemiller16]

I think you're undervaluing Kennedy's defensive efforts. He keeps his feet better than Brice does, held his gap on the perimeter better than some previous games, and is very crafty. Got absolutely shafted by the zebra on that last shot block, BTW. Speaking of invented calls, calling a damned offensive foul on JB when he got literally body-blocked out of bounds may have been the worst thing I've seen all season. My buddy may have been on to something... this game had a rather sketchy smell to it.

When was that foul on JB? I don't remember it from the game and wanted to go back and re-watch it.
Edit: Found it with Gary's help, 2:06 mark in the first.

The charge against Hicks with 11:36 left in the second half was one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

I'd love to see Paige try to penetrate some more. He's finally hitting some shots, but seems to be settling too often for the 3.

 

[soap - new and improved]

I think you're undervaluing Kennedy's defensive efforts. He keeps his feet better than Brice does, held his gap on the perimeter better than some previous games, and is very crafty. Got absolutely shafted by the zebra on that last shot block, BTW. Speaking of invented calls, calling a damned offensive foul on JB when he got literally body-blocked out of bounds may have been the worst thing I've seen all season. My buddy may have been on to something... this game had a rather sketchy smell to it.

The offensive foul on JB and one other one a little later (Jackson I think - Might have been Hicks) were both horrible calls. Neither defender was set, or squared up, and the guy who body blocked Joel was inside the circle (if that extends to the baseline).

 

[Spacegrass]

When was that foul on JB? I don't remember it from the game and wanted to go back and re-watch it.

The charge against Hicks with 11:36 left in the second half was one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

I'd love to see Paige try to penetrate some more. He's finally hitting some shots, but seems to be settling too often for the 3.

Paige doesn't have the body to go to the rim a lot. He gets beat up too easy.

 

[soap - new and improved]

Funny, when a guy drives and gets beat on? Sposta be a foul. That said, Marcus has looked tentative to me on many of his drives. If you are gonna go for it, go hard. Refs seem to reward the all out attitude regardless of actual contact/no contact.

 

[Spacegrass]

Funny, when a guy drives and gets beat on? Sposta be a foul. That said, Marcus has looked tentative to me on many of his drives. If you are gonna go for it, go hard. Refs seem to reward the all out attitude regardless of actual contact/no contact.

It's the nature of going to the rim. Whether you get the foul call or not. Slight framed smaller guys it tends to wear on them more.

 

[ChiShankCity]

Reasonably, our defense was pretty good. More 3pt shots allowed than I would have preferred. Bad free throw luck because BC nailed their FT's until late game.

Offensively, that kind of game was our worst case.

Slow tempo: 66 possessions
We were exclusively dependent on 2 pt offense because our 3 and FT volume was so low.

We shot 61% on 2's... But Only got 24 pts from 3's and FT's. I would typically like to see us get 24 pts per game from the FT line alone. So when you're that 2 pt dependent, you're probably going to be in a really tight game.

Berry's in a bit of a slide in terms of efficiency. 7/27 from 3 the last 5 games. Nate is 3/17 in conference play. Jackson hit his first 3 in about 3 weeks last night. So Paige (right now) is probably our only high volume efficient 3point shooter. And we all know about his slump. We need some more consistent shooting. 26% from 3 in conference play.

 

[jemiller16]

It's the nature of going to the rim. Whether you get the foul call or not. Slight framed smaller guys it tends to wear on them more.

I don't think Paige should be driving every possession, but I think he should sprinkle it in a little bit more than he is. Not necessarily to try and draw a foul or make a basket, but to get defenders out of position or find a big open for an easy basket.

 

[Heelicious]

I don't think Paige should be driving every possession, but I think he should sprinkle it in a little bit more than he is. Not necessarily to try and draw a foul or make a basket, but to get defenders out of position or find a big open for an easy basket.

Just going from memory, but it seems every time Marcus has a good to great game, over half his points come from solid finishes on drives to the rim, and / or FTs from said drives.

 

[gary-7]

When was that foul on JB? I don't remember it from the game and wanted to go back and re-watch it.

The charge against Hicks with 11:36 left in the second half was one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

I'd love to see Paige try to penetrate some more. He's finally hitting some shots, but seems to be settling too often for the 3.

It was late in the first half. JB drove baseline and the BC guy slid down and hip-checked him out of bounds and they call a foul on Berry. It was not even a judgement call. That was a call you literally cannot make if you are calling a fair game.
Also, Roy's episode was are result of him arguing a no-call when Hicks got slammed.

 

[Heelicious]

Reasonably, our defense was pretty good. More 3pt shots allowed than I would have preferred. Bad free throw luck because BC nailed their FT's until late game.

Offensively, that kind of game was our worst case.

Slow tempo: 66 possessions
We were exclusively dependent on 2 pt offense because our 3 and FT volume was so low.

We shot 61% on 2's... But Only got 24 pts from 3's and FT's. I would typically like to see us get 24 pts per game from the FT line alone. So when you're that 2 pt dependent, you're probably going to be in a really tight game.

Berry's in a bit of a slide in terms of efficiency. 7/27 from 3 the last 5 games. Nate is 3/17 in conference play. Jackson hit his first 3 in about 3 weeks last night. So Paige (right now) is probably our only high volume efficient 3point shooter. And we all know about his slump. We need some more consistent shooting. 26% from 3 in conference play.

Jung Your low FTs and low possessions comment are dead on. We need to drive more and look inside more, finishing strong to get to the line. We should be getting out shot from the FT line so bad by so many teams. Disturbing.
I'd like to see us press more at times to get more possessions, especially against a marginal athletic team, but its really hard to speed a team up.
We've hashed the whole "how many 3s an opponent takes" to death. Can't keep them from taking them.... just have to guard them better. ID and lock down their on-fire shooter. I hope we have someone who can do that.

Regarding our 3 point shooting, I don't think you can look at the entire year, or even all ACC play, to direct what should / will happen rest of year. No amount of good shooting here on out will markedly fix the 26% 3 pt ACC stat you quote.

But look at the last two games 3-point shooting from our guards:

Marcus alone: 8/14 57%
Marcus / JJ / Nate: 10/19 53%
Add in Berry who has struggled a bit: still 11/25 44%
I think we'd take even the 44% the rest of the year, no?

 

[HeelFan58]

Jung Your low FTs and low possessions comment are dead on. We need to drive more and look inside more, finishing strong to get to the line. We should be getting out shot from the FT line so bad by so many teams. Disturbing.
I'd like to see us press more at times to get more possessions, especially against a marginal athletic team, but its really hard to speed a team up.
We've hashed the whole "how many 3s an opponent takes" to death. Can't keep them from taking them.... just have to guard them better. ID and lock down their on-fire shooter. I hope we have someone who can do that.

Regarding our 3 point shooting, I don't think you can look at the entire year, or even all ACC play, to direct what should / will happen rest of year. No amount of good shooting here on out will markedly fix the 26% 3 pt ACC stat you quote.

But look at the last two games 3-point shooting from our guards:

Marcus alone: 8/14 57%
Marcus / JJ / Nate: 10/19 53%
Add in Berry who has struggled a bit: still 11/25 44%
I think we'd take even the 44% the rest of the year, no?

I am sure we would take 44% but you are deriving this from a very , very small sample.

 

[coryfly]

I think when Berry was checked it was just called OOB, right? I don't think there was a foul. Maybe so though.

 

[ChapelHeeled]

I think you're undervaluing Kennedy's defensive efforts. He keeps his feet better than Brice does, held his gap on the perimeter better than some previous games, and is very crafty. Got absolutely shafted by the zebra on that last shot block, BTW. Speaking of invented calls, calling a damned offensive foul on JB when he got literally body-blocked out of bounds may have been the worst thing I've seen all season. My buddy may have been on to something... this game had a rather sketchy smell to it.

Where was Jamie Luckie...?

 

[DSouthr]

Jung Your low FTs and low possessions comment are dead on. We need to drive more and look inside more, finishing strong to get to the line. We should be getting out shot from the FT line so bad by so many teams. Disturbing.
I'd like to see us press more at times to get more possessions, especially against a marginal athletic team, but its really hard to speed a team up.
We've hashed the whole "how many 3s an opponent takes" to death. Can't keep them from taking them.... just have to guard them better. ID and lock down their on-fire shooter. I hope we have someone who can do that.

Regarding our 3 point shooting, I don't think you can look at the entire year, or even all ACC play, to direct what should / will happen rest of year. No amount of good shooting here on out will markedly fix the 26% 3 pt ACC stat you quote.

But look at the last two games 3-point shooting from our guards:

Marcus alone: 8/14 57%
Marcus / JJ / Nate: 10/19 53%
Add in Berry who has struggled a bit: still 11/25 44%
I think we'd take even the 44% the rest of the year, no?

Yet we only gave up 61pts to BC, that isn't bad defense, that is poor offense, we shot over 50% for the game. The problem was not getting enough shots up and not getting to the free throw line enough. Those offensive fouls, mean we get no shot up and usually the opponents do get a shot up. The pace of the game, was a time that it really didn't matter how much the opposing team wanted to slow things down, we just would not allow them to. We allow them to now days.

How do you dictate pace when a team wants to slow things down, first off you own the glass on both ends, you take way their second shots off offensive rebounds, defensive rebounding tends to allow your running game to take off, steals do the same. So what next, your back court has to really hawk the ball handlers and everyone else pays the passing lanes and you pull the ball out of the basket even on made shots and push it up the court. Attack attack attack has to be your mindset, attack with the primary break when it is there, attack with the secondary break when the primary break is shut off but be constantly attacking. When you do that you do not have to rely so much on outside shooting and when you do the defense has to focus in on the ball handler attacking, kick it back out for the wide open trey rather than the hand in the face treys we take by not attacking and allowing the defense to get totally set and positioned. Teams that like to slow the pace HATE that kind of game when they have to run an amped up pace, they are not used to it and begin to foul.Teams used to the slow down pace want you to pull the ball back out and toss it around the horn a few times, I hate every time I see us do that!

I personally like mixing in some full and 3/4 court press trapping action to force opposing guards to have to work to get the ball up court under pressure, it wear on them mentally and physically. Recall UNC used to be known as the team that went on spurts to end each half, we did that because we wore down the opposing guards mentally and physically. Switching defense also really work to tax opposing guards, when they have to think about how to attack a defense they are not playing free & loose.

You get a working margin on a team that wants to slow the pace and they are forced to ramp their own pace up to catch up, you force them in to bad shots that lead to even more run outs and that margin increases.

 

[ChiShankCity]

If we want to force teams to play at a higher pace, we absolutely have to stop fouling... Especially on rebounds. It destroys the flow of the game.

Additionally, if we get stops, we'll force a higher tempo because there's no stop in action.

Most importantly, we need to build leads by half. If you have a decent lead, your opponent is almost forced to play faster because it will need more possessions to make up for points.

 

[shun1]

Hi gary-7, as always my brother, I thank you for your efforts & time you put out for this board to give your insights on the games. I SMILE when I see your post of STATS & STUFF.

!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bubspub88]

Off the ball fouls killed the offense. 52 shots is about as low as I can recall. Seems like we average over 60 fg attempts per game. Way too many possessions ended before we even had a chance to shoot.

 

[r_u_worthy]

Good point Bub, that is the stat of the game to me. It's also pretty puzzling considering all the emphasis was going to be placed not impeding offensive player movement this season. Bit of disconnect there