Stats and... stuff - Wisconsin game

[gary-7]

Folks, I'm gonna have to preface this one with a few caveats before I proceed:

Caveat #1: This game was badly officiated. Baby-faced Wisconsin grabbed, arm-barred, held our cutters and ran moving screens galore (basic Big-10 basketball - remember Illinois in '05?). Hell, I counted 5 uncalled fouls on just ONE of our possessions. And Brice might have actually committed one of the fouls he was called for.
Caveat #2: Unfortunately, I was right about Dekker in the preview. He absolutely killed us. He must have incriminating photos of Tokoto --- that's the only way I know to explain how useless JP was "guarding" him. I don't think Dekker got blocked out once on the offensive glass.
Caveat #3: None of the above account for this loss.

Cut to the chase: By and large, Roy was coaching a good game. We were running and pushing tempo, even going "small" at key points and defending Wisky pretty well. This was a game that we were basically in control of most of the way, until.........
the game was lost following the Under-8 time-out in the second half.

Wisky was having very little success, despite their aforementioned shenanigans, in defending the Berry/Paige Guard tandem, AND their Guards were having little success attacking ours. We come out of the TV time-out at 7:43 with Paige at the line, but before Marcus shoots, INEXPLICABLY Roy (AFTER the damned time-out, with everyone rested) subs in Britt for Berry. WTF? (THAT, BTW, is when my head exploded).

What followed (sadly and predictably) was 2 minutes and 32 seconds of absolute AWFULNESS --- a 9-2 Wisky run, mostly fueled by Britt being over-matched on both ends, and giving them a lead they would never relinquish.

Now folks, I'm not writing this to hate on Britt. He did some nice things in the transition-heavy Arky game, BUT... Nate playing PG for any length of time against a team like Wisconsin is a recipe for disaster (hell, y'all witnessed it). I don't blame Nate. That is on Roy.

Anyway..... stats (as if they're any surprise at this point)...
Of the Guard combos that played significant minutes:
Paige alone (13:41) 1.5 PPM
Berry/Paige (16:48) 2.4 PPM
Britt/Paige (6:57) 1.4 PPM

I posted yesterday that our chances going forward were largely proportional to the minutes Joel Berry played.
He got just over 19 minutes against Wisconsin. Had that number been, oh, I don't know, 22 minutes, in all likelihood we're playing Arizona Saturday in the Regional Finals.
Period.
Exclamation point.

 

[Tru Blu Tar Heel]

It's GLARINGLY obvious how much better the Heels look when Berry is running point and Paige slides to the 2. It's going to be interesting to see what happens early next season. I susptect that, barring early departures, the Heels will start with the same starting 5 that they did this year. Berry DESERVES starter minutes though. Will he get them?

 

[Tigertown_a_Rick]

Originally posted by gary-7:
Folks, I'm gonna have to preface this one with a few caveats before I proceed:

Caveat #1: This game was badly officiated. Baby-faced Wisconsin grabbed, arm-barred, held our cutters and ran moving screens galore (basic Big-10 basketball - remember Illinois in '05?). Hell, I counted 5 uncalled fouls on just ONE of our possessions. And Brice might have actually committed one of the fouls he was called for.
Caveat #2: Unfortunately, I was right about Dekker in the preview. He absolutely killed us. He must have incriminating photos of Tokoto --- that's the only way I know to explain how useless JP was "guarding" him. I don't think Dekker got blocked out once on the offensive glass.
Caveat #3: None of the above account for this loss.

Cut to the chase: By and large, Roy was coaching a good game. We were running and pushing tempo, even going "small" at key points and defending Wisky pretty well. This was a game that we were basically in control of most of the way, until.........
the game was lost following the Under-8 time-out in the second half.

Wisky was having very little success, despite their aforementioned shenanigans, in defending the Berry/Paige Guard tandem, AND their Guards were having little success attacking ours. We come out of the TV time-out at 7:43 with Paige at the line, but before Marcus shoots, INEXPLICABLY Roy (AFTER the damned time-out, with everyone rested) subs in Britt for Berry. WTF? (THAT, BTW, is when my head exploded).

What followed (sadly and predictably) was 2 minutes and 32 seconds of absolute AWFULNESS --- a 9-2 Wisky run, mostly fueled by Britt being over-matched on both ends, and giving them a lead they would never relinquish.

Now folks, I'm not writing this to hate on Britt. He did some nice things in the transition-heavy Arky game, BUT... Nate playing PG for any length of time against a team like Wisconsin is a recipe for disaster (hell, y'all witnessed it). I don't blame Nate. That is on Roy.

Anyway..... stats (as if they're any surprise at this point)...
Of the Guard combos that played significant minutes:
Paige alone (13:41) 1.5 PPM
Berry/Paige (16:48) 2.4 PPM
Britt/Paige (6:57) 1.4 PPM

I posted yesterday that our chances going forward were largely proportional to the minutes Joel Berry played.
He got just over 19 minutes against Wisconsin. Had that number been, oh, I don't know, 22 minutes, in all likelihood we're playing Arizona Saturday in the Regional Finals.
Period.
Exclamation point.

Great summation, unfortunately!

 

[BillyL]

Gary,

Did your head explode in the first half of the Arkansas v. UNC game when Nate Britt kept us in the game and basically carried our team with excellent play and 10 points . . ? Its quite possible that without that stellar half of play from Nate against Arky that we're not even playing in the sweet sixteen . . Is that on Roy too . . ?

Did your head explode when Wisconsin out-rebounded us 35-28 . . and was that Roy's or Nate's fault . . ?

Any explosion in your TV room when Isaiah threw his hip out so hard with 41 seconds left in the game and was called with an unnecessary foul on the perimeter when he hedged on the screen by Kaminsky . . ? 2 foul shots later we're down 3 . .

Maybe it was both Britt's AND Roy's fault that both Meeks and Tokoto only produced 4 points apiece in the game tonight . . we could blame the medical staff for even clearing Kennedy to play tonight if you want to.


Jus' sayin' . .

.





This post was edited on 3/27 8:11 AM by BillyL

 

[Coach_a_Heart]

I'm too much of a grace/mercy guy to fault one Heel and I love Coach Roy too much, but the PPM stat with Berry/Paige really equalled the eye test last night. Berry makes everything better. Had he gotten this kind of run 6 weeks ago, the Heels are a 2 seed in the East having just ended the Izzo media lovefest and ready to lower the boom on OU. Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by Coach@Heart:

I'm too much of a grace/mercy guy to fault one Heel and I love Coach Roy too much, but the PPM stat with Berry/Paige really equalled the eye test last night. Berry makes everything better. Had he gotten this kind of run 6 weeks ago, the Heels are a 2 seed in the East having just ended the Izzo media lovefest and ready to lower the boom on OU. Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda.

Joel Berry had a very good game last night, no question about that . . . and kudos to him for it. I actually believe we will see major improvement from him going into next season.

 

[2 skerz 3]

Not the refs again...

 

[gary-7]

Originally posted by BillyL:
Gary,

Did your head explode in the first half of the Arkansas v. UNC game when Nate Britt kept us in the game and basically carried our team with excellent play and 10 points . . ? Its quite possible that without that stellar half of play from Nate against Arky that we're not even playing in the sweet sixteen . . Is that on Roy too . . ?

Did your head explode when Wisconsin out-rebounded us 35-28 . . and was that Roy's or Nate's fault . . ?

Any explosion in your TV room when Isaiah threw his hip out so hard with 41 seconds left in the game and was called with an unnecessary foul on the perimeter when he hedged on the screen by Kaminsky . . ? 2 foul shots later we're down 3 . .

Maybe it was both Britt's AND Roy's fault that both Meeks and Tokoto only produced 4 points apiece in the game tonight . . we could blame the medical staff for even clearing Kennedy to play tonight if you want to.


Jus' sayin' . .

This post was edited on 3/27 8:11 AM by BillyL

With all due respect those are spurious questions. Sure those, along with the caveats I mentioned were indeed all negative things that happened in the game. None however were key turning points in the vital flow of the game, On the other hand that gawdawful substitution after the Under-8 and the subsequent meltdown was.

And just for the record, Nate didn't "keep us in the game" against Arky. He had some very nice minutes, but truth be known (as I posted afterward) Roy left him in too long in the second half running point when the game got down to half court crunch time, and our offense stalled and let Arky back in the game. Berry should have been running the show down the stretch, as he should have been in the Harvard game that we almost blew in the last 9 minutes.

Billy, I'm not sure why you insist on trying to argue against the obvious. By every measure we are a far better team when Joel Berry is at PG and Marcus Paige is at the 2, and no available alternative is anywhere close.

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by 2 skerz 3:

Not the refs again...

The calls the refs made last night had no impact on the outcome of this game whatsoever. To suggest otherwise makes you look like a whiny 'blame everyone else but ourselves' fan . .

 

[gary-7]

Originally posted by 2 skerz 3:
Not the refs again...

Seriously? The refs were bad, and allowed Wisky to gain consistent advantages. That is a fact. What's your point, dude?

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by gary-7:

Originally posted by BillyL:
Gary,

Did your head explode in the first half of the Arkansas v. UNC game when Nate Britt kept us in the game and basically carried our team with excellent play and 10 points . . ? Its quite possible that without that stellar half of play from Nate against Arky that we're not even playing in the sweet sixteen . . Is that on Roy too . . ?

Did your head explode when Wisconsin out-rebounded us 35-28 . . and was that Roy's or Nate's fault . . ?

Any explosion in your TV room when Isaiah threw his hip out so hard with 41 seconds left in the game and was called with an unnecessary foul on the perimeter when he hedged on the screen by Kaminsky . . ? 2 foul shots later we're down 3 . .

Maybe it was both Britt's AND Roy's fault that both Meeks and Tokoto only produced 4 points apiece in the game tonight . . we could blame the medical staff for even clearing Kennedy to play tonight if you want to.


Jus' sayin' . .

This post was edited on 3/27 8:11 AM by BillyL

With all due respect those are spurious questions. Sure those, along with the caveats I mentioned were indeed all negative things that happened in the game. None however were key turning points in the vital flow of the game, On the other hand that gawdawful substitution after the Under-8 and the subsequent meltdown was.

And just for the record, Nate didn't "keep us in the game" against Arky. He had some very nice minutes, but truth be known (as I posted afterward) Roy left him in too long in the second half running point when the game got down to half court crunch time, and our offense stalled and let Arky back in the game. Berry should have been running the show down the stretch, as he should have been in the Harvard game that we almost blew in the last 9 minutes.

Billy, I'm not sure why you insist on trying to argue against the obvious. By every measure we are a far better team when Joel Berry is at PG and Marcus Paige is at the 2, and no available alternative is anywhere close.

Your #1 caveat is just so pathetic it's highly embarrassing, Gary . . . you're the only one in all of Tar Heel Nation that is crying about the freaking refs.

Thanks for the stats . . and everyone knows that Joel Berry is your 'hero' and likely family member as well. But please, sir . . . do lose that BS about the referees costing us the game. You make yourself look very bad in doing so, my man.

JB had a very good game, so did Justin Jackson and a couple of others . .

 

[notashelbyfan]

My question is if Gary can come with the stat of 2.4 ppm with that line up 5 mins after the why can't roy over the course of a season figure it out?

I trust him 100% but I would like to understand the logic, his line ups have me scratching my head alot!

 

[gary-7]

Originally posted by BillyL:

Originally posted by gary-7:

Originally posted by BillyL:
Gary,

Did your head explode in the first half of the Arkansas v. UNC game when Nate Britt kept us in the game and basically carried our team with excellent play and 10 points . . ? Its quite possible that without that stellar half of play from Nate against Arky that we're not even playing in the sweet sixteen . . Is that on Roy too . . ?

Did your head explode when Wisconsin out-rebounded us 35-28 . . and was that Roy's or Nate's fault . . ?

Any explosion in your TV room when Isaiah threw his hip out so hard with 41 seconds left in the game and was called with an unnecessary foul on the perimeter when he hedged on the screen by Kaminsky . . ? 2 foul shots later we're down 3 . .

Maybe it was both Britt's AND Roy's fault that both Meeks and Tokoto only produced 4 points apiece in the game tonight . . we could blame the medical staff for even clearing Kennedy to play tonight if you want to.


Jus' sayin' . .

This post was edited on 3/27 8:11 AM by BillyL

With all due respect those are spurious questions. Sure those, along with the caveats I mentioned were indeed all negative things that happened in the game. None however were key turning points in the vital flow of the game, On the other hand that gawdawful substitution after the Under-8 and the subsequent meltdown was.

And just for the record, Nate didn't "keep us in the game" against Arky. He had some very nice minutes, but truth be known (as I posted afterward) Roy left him in too long in the second half running point when the game got down to half court crunch time, and our offense stalled and let Arky back in the game. Berry should have been running the show down the stretch, as he should have been in the Harvard game that we almost blew in the last 9 minutes.

Billy, I'm not sure why you insist on trying to argue against the obvious. By every measure we are a far better team when Joel Berry is at PG and Marcus Paige is at the 2, and no available alternative is anywhere close.

Your #1 caveat is just so pathetic it's highly embarrassing, Gary . . . you're the only one in all of Tar Heel Nation that is crying about the freaking refs.

Thanks for the stats . . and everyone knows that Joel Berry is your 'hero' and likely family member as well. But please, sir . . . do lose that BS about the referees costing us the game. You make yourself look very bad in doing so, my man.

JB had a very good game, so did Justin Jackson and a couple of others . .

I know reading is hard... perhaps you should go back and try it again before you post (and FYI, The term "caveat" was being used in it's common connotation as a disclaimer in relation to my main point that followed).

I very specifically did NOT blame the refs. I pointed out they were bad. And they WERE. That is a damned FACT. But I went on to say they did NOT cost us the game. And BTW, I would dare say most of the Tar Heel nation would agree with all of that.

What is pathetic and looks bad on here are rather juvenile claims that a player is someone's "hero" because that player's glaringly obvious value to the team (statistical and otherwise) is observed and pointed out... or claiming someone is "crying' when they're making a cogent observation about the game. I'm not gonna censor those observations for you or anybody else, Bubba.

In all seriousness Billy, you're a mainstay around here and I've been more than happy to talk basketball with you --- agreeing or disagreeing --- for several years now. However, if the tone is going to degenerate to this level perhaps it would be better for all concerned if we just stayed out of each others' threads.

 

[gary-7]

Originally posted by Tru Blu Tar Heel:

It's GLARINGLY obvious how much better the Heels look when Berry is running point and Paige slides to the 2. It's going to be interesting to see what happens early next season. I susptect that, barring early departures, the Heels will start with the same starting 5 that they did this year. Berry DESERVES starter minutes though. Will he get them?

You just posted the $1,000,000 question, my brother.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

a rather objective thread with supporting stats is sabotaged yet again...this has been the theme all year. if you don't agree with somebody, present some facts to offset their argument. frankly, it makes for great discussion and I welcome it, even when folks don't agree with me. But the childish, petty pissing matches have to stop.

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by gary-7:

We come out of the TV time-out at 7:43 with Paige at the line, but before Marcus shoots, INEXPLICABLY Roy (AFTER the damned time-out, with everyone rested) subs in Britt for Berry. WTF? (THAT, BTW, is when my head exploded).

What followed (sadly and predictably) was 2 minutes and 32 seconds of absolute AWFULNESS --- a 9-2 Wisky run, mostly fueled by Britt being over-matched on both ends, and giving them a lead they would never relinquish.

gary, with all due respect, the excessive use of bold, underline, and italics distracts from the content of your post. It also makes you less credible IMO. If what you have to say is worth reading, it will stand on its own merits.

A few comments:

- Berry had been in since the 14:35 mark, almost 7 minutes. Roy was simply trying to get him a breather for the final stretch.

- The only 2 points UNC scored during that run came from Britt. Where's the criticism for his teammates' failure to score? Britt also had UNC's only rebound during that stretch.

- Britt took a bad shot, and had a turnover lead to an easy bucket for Wisconsin. That's on him.

- The other 7 Wisconsin points during the run came from a Kaminsky 3-pointer and layups from Dekker and Showalter. Britt was guarding Koening. Yet you claim the run was "mostly fueled" by Britt's shortcomings? C'mon, man.

Look, I completely agree that Berry represents our best long-term option at the PG position. But your non-stop campaign against Britt is really troubling IMO. You're practically obsessive. Berry can't play 40 minutes, and Roy wouldn't let him even if he could.

 

[2 skerz 3]

Originally posted by gary-7:

Originally posted by 2 skerz 3:
Not the refs again...

Seriously? The refs were bad, and allowed Wisky to gain consistent advantages. That is a fact. What's your point, dude?

Sour grapes, dude! Wiscy is a helluva basketball team who won the game fair and square. Don't blame the damn refs for crying out loud!!

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by GoNtheDistance:

a rather objective thread with supporting stats is sabotaged yet again...

I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk, but has anybody ever corroborated gary's stats? Because the one time I bothered to, they were incorrect. The minutes played for the two-guard lineup against ND were short by a minute, which overstated the PPM number.

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by gary-7:

Originally posted by BillyL:

Originally posted by gary-7:

Originally posted by BillyL:
Gary,

Did your head explode in the first half of the Arkansas v. UNC game when Nate Britt kept us in the game and basically carried our team with excellent play and 10 points . . ? Its quite possible that without that stellar half of play from Nate against Arky that we're not even playing in the sweet sixteen . . Is that on Roy too . . ?

Did your head explode when Wisconsin out-rebounded us 35-28 . . and was that Roy's or Nate's fault . . ?

Any explosion in your TV room when Isaiah threw his hip out so hard with 41 seconds left in the game and was called with an unnecessary foul on the perimeter when he hedged on the screen by Kaminsky . . ? 2 foul shots later we're down 3 . .

Maybe it was both Britt's AND Roy's fault that both Meeks and Tokoto only produced 4 points apiece in the game tonight . . we could blame the medical staff for even clearing Kennedy to play tonight if you want to.


Jus' sayin' . .

This post was edited on 3/27 8:11 AM by BillyL

With all due respect those are spurious questions. Sure those, along with the caveats I mentioned were indeed all negative things that happened in the game. None however were key turning points in the vital flow of the game, On the other hand that gawdawful substitution after the Under-8 and the subsequent meltdown was.

And just for the record, Nate didn't "keep us in the game" against Arky. He had some very nice minutes, but truth be known (as I posted afterward) Roy left him in too long in the second half running point when the game got down to half court crunch time, and our offense stalled and let Arky back in the game. Berry should have been running the show down the stretch, as he should have been in the Harvard game that we almost blew in the last 9 minutes.

Billy, I'm not sure why you insist on trying to argue against the obvious. By every measure we are a far better team when Joel Berry is at PG and Marcus Paige is at the 2, and no available alternative is anywhere close.

Your #1 caveat is just so pathetic it's highly embarrassing, Gary . . . you're the only one in all of Tar Heel Nation that is crying about the freaking refs.

Thanks for the stats . . and everyone knows that Joel Berry is your 'hero' and likely family member as well. But please, sir . . . do lose that BS about the referees costing us the game. You make yourself look very bad in doing so, my man.

JB had a very good game, so did Justin Jackson and a couple of others . .

I know reading is hard... perhaps you should go back and try it again before you post (and FYI, The term "caveat" was being used in it's common connotation as a disclaimer in relation to my main point that followed).

I very specifically did NOT blame the refs. I pointed out they were bad. And they WERE. That is a damned FACT. But I went on to say they did NOT cost us the game. And BTW, I would dare say most of the Tar Heel nation would agree with all of that.

What is pathetic and looks bad on here are rather juvenile claims that a player is someone's "hero" because that player's glaringly obvious value to the team (statistical and otherwise) is observed and pointed out... or claiming someone is "crying' when they're making a cogent observation about the game. I'm not gonna censor those observations for you or anybody else, Bubba.

In all seriousness Billy, you're a mainstay around here and I've been more than happy to talk basketball with you --- agreeing or disagreeing --- for several years now. However, if the tone is going to degenerate to this level perhaps it would be better for all concerned if we just stayed out of each others' threads.

Reading is not difficult, Gary . .

So please read this: If, the refs were bad, then there would be more threads on every Tar Heel message board known to Heels' fans, but, there aren't any, and for good reason, poor officiating or bad refereeing as you'd like to call it, had absolutely nothing to do or affected our game in any way shape or form. Saying that the refs were 'bad' is complaining about the zebras, and makes us look like NCState fans . .
Bringing the refs into the conversation when they had no part of the outcome of last night's game looks very weak in my eyes and I'm just guessing here, likely everyone else's. Just stop with that nonsense, brother, it's simply not worth giving up your basketball integrity to bad-mouth them.

Thanks for the dis-invite to any thread you may start, but, I feel its my duty to chime in if I feel so inclined to do so. You are more than welcomed to participate in any thread that I may start . .

Hang in there, Bro' . .

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by GoNtheDistance:

a rather objective thread with supporting stats is sabotaged yet again...this has been the theme all year. if you don't agree with somebody, present some facts to offset their argument. frankly, it makes for great discussion and I welcome it, even when folks don't agree with me. But the childish, petty pissing matches have to stop.

Dude,

Stop complaining and add something to the thread if you'd like to . . we have 2 mods here that are very competent in how they manage the board., and I'm sure if something is said that is out of line they'll be the first to chime in.

Fact #1 . . the referees were not 'BAD' in last evening's game.

 

[BillyL]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by gary-7:

We come out of the TV time-out at 7:43 with Paige at the line, but before Marcus shoots, INEXPLICABLY Roy (AFTER the damned time-out, with everyone rested) subs in Britt for Berry. WTF? (THAT, BTW, is when my head exploded).

What followed (sadly and predictably) was 2 minutes and 32 seconds of absolute AWFULNESS --- a 9-2 Wisky run, mostly fueled by Britt being over-matched on both ends, and giving them a lead they would never relinquish.

gary, with all due respect, the excessive use of bold, underline, and italics distracts from the content of your post. It also makes you less credible IMO. If what you have to say is worth reading, it will stand on its own merits.

A few comments:

- Berry had been in since the 14:35 mark, almost 7 minutes. Roy was simply trying to get him a breather for the final stretch.

- The only 2 points UNC scored during that run came from Britt. Where's the criticism for his teammates' failure to score? Britt also had UNC's only rebound during that stretch.

- Britt took a bad shot, and had a turnover lead to an easy bucket for Wisconsin. That's on him.

- The other 7 Wisconsin points during the run came from a Kaminsky 3-pointer and layups from Dekker and Showalter. Britt was guarding Koening. Yet you claim the run was "mostly fueled" by Britt's shortcomings? C'mon, man.

Look, I completely agree that Berry represents our best long-term option at the PG position. But your non-stop campaign against Britt is really troubling IMO. You're practically obsessive. Berry can't play 40 minutes, and Roy wouldn't let him even if he could.

 

[DSouthr]

Originally posted by gary-7:
Folks, I'm gonna have to preface this one with a few caveats before I proceed:

Caveat #1: This game was badly officiated. Baby-faced Wisconsin grabbed, arm-barred, held our cutters and ran moving screens galore (basic Big-10 basketball - remember Illinois in '05?). Hell, I counted 5 uncalled fouls on just ONE of our possessions. And Brice might have actually committed one of the fouls he was called for.
Caveat #2: Unfortunately, I was right about Dekker in the preview. He absolutely killed us. He must have incriminating photos of Tokoto --- that's the only way I know to explain how useless JP was "guarding" him. I don't think Dekker got blocked out once on the offensive glass.
Caveat #3: None of the above account for this loss.

Cut to the chase: By and large, Roy was coaching a good game. We were running and pushing tempo, even going "small" at key points and defending Wisky pretty well. This was a game that we were basically in control of most of the way, until.........
the game was lost following the Under-8 time-out in the second half.

Wisky was having very little success, despite their aforementioned shenanigans, in defending the Berry/Paige Guard tandem, AND their Guards were having little success attacking ours. We come out of the TV time-out at 7:43 with Paige at the line, but before Marcus shoots, INEXPLICABLY Roy (AFTER the damned time-out, with everyone rested) subs in Britt for Berry. WTF? (THAT, BTW, is when my head exploded).

What followed (sadly and predictably) was 2 minutes and 32 seconds of absolute AWFULNESS --- a 9-2 Wisky run, mostly fueled by Britt being over-matched on both ends, and giving them a lead they would never relinquish.

Now folks, I'm not writing this to hate on Britt. He did some nice things in the transition-heavy Arky game, BUT... Nate playing PG for any length of time against a team like Wisconsin is a recipe for disaster (hell, y'all witnessed it). I don't blame Nate. That is on Roy.

Anyway..... stats (as if they're any surprise at this point)...
Of the Guard combos that played significant minutes:
Paige alone (13:41) 1.5 PPM
Berry/Paige (16:48) 2.4 PPM
Britt/Paige (6:57) 1.4 PPM

I posted yesterday that our chances going forward were largely proportional to the minutes Joel Berry played.
He got just over 19 minutes against Wisconsin. Had that number been, oh, I don't know, 22 minutes, in all likelihood we're playing Arizona Saturday in the Regional Finals.
Period.
Exclamation point.

I really don't want to talk about the refs, you have to play thru that kind of stuff, lets not take anything away from those whisky players, they earned a hard fought battle, credit them.

Yeah Gary, my head kinda exploded to, hoped we could get away with tit but yeah, up 5 or 7 and in no time falt we are down 5 all timed when Britt came in and unfortunately a lot of that was his man. I don't like to be extra hard on a kid but geez, we had that game until Joel went out and Nate came in. Not blaming this loss on Nate, just pointing out that was a critical part of the game and he just didn't help us in that critical part of that game. Brice & Meeks in so much foul trouble was a very hard thing to deal with, Marcus being cold from the field early cost us several empty trips but it was sure hard to see things go away so quickly.

The thing with Dekker is he is really about the same size Hansbourgh was for us yet puts the ball on the floor really well for a guy his size, he had JP in size & bulk and didn't turn the ball over, double tuff matchup for JP or any one that checked him. He is at least as much reason Whisky has been top 5 all season as Kaminski. I thought JP played pretty well but Dekker came to play and he was not going to be checked, not by anyone on our roster, he puts the ball on the floor to solid and he shoots if you don't stay right up on him.

 

[strummingram]

No one has mentioned that, despite playing one of our better games, Wisconsin was still a better team. That stat is proven in the final score and how they outplayed us in the final 5 minutes. It wasn't the referees that made it happen either. Wisconsin is like Virginia x 10. They are disciplined, methodical and just flat-out GOOD at their game. Hey, they even had more turnovers than usual against us.

Players have good games and bad games, but the bad games don't make them perpetual liabilities. Without Nate Britt, we wouldn't even be PLAYING in the Sweet 16.

Our guys just need to learn to close-out games. That was the Achilles Heel all year and we all knew it would be the ultimate end of the season at some point. It was! That and a superior team that was more disciplined and knew how to close-out games and has shown that many times over the course of the season. UNC has had to play some VERY tough competition this year... VERY tough. That's only going to make them better as a team and as players. It was beginning to show just how that competition was paying-off. If everyone stays, we will be picked to win it all next season (or be in the Top 5).

 

[Raising Heel]

Originally posted by strummingram:
No one has mentioned that, despite playing one of our better games, Wisconsin was still a better team.

Exactly. Wisconsin's record is not simply the product of good fortune. Thanks for pointing out the forest while we're all fixated on the trees, strum.

 

[gary-7]

Originally posted by DSouthr:
Yeah Gary, my head kinda exploded to, hoped we could get away with tit but yeah, up 5 or 7 and in no time falt we are down 5 all timed when Britt came in and unfortunately a lot of that was his man. I don't like to be extra hard on a kid but geez, we had that game until Joel went out and Nate came in. Not blaming this loss on Nate, just pointing out that was a critical part of the game and he just didn't help us in that critical part of that game. Brice & Meeks in so much foul trouble was a very hard thing to deal with, Marcus being cold from the field early cost us several empty trips but it was sure hard to see things go away so quickly.

The thing with Dekker is he is really about the same size Hansbourgh was for us yet puts the ball on the floor really well for a guy his size, he had JP in size & bulk and didn't turn the ball over, double tuff matchup for JP or any one that checked him. He is at least as much reason Whisky has been top 5 all season as Kaminski. I thought JP played pretty well but Dekker came to play and he was not going to be checked, not by anyone on our roster, he puts the ball on the floor to solid and he shoots if you don't stay right up on him.

Dave, I can't quite let JP off that easily. Dekker was a hand full for sure but what drove me crazy was that JP was just flat losing sight of him off the ball, and that's when he killed us on put-backs and offensive rebounds. The first rule of playing defense is: "See man and ball". I had that axiom drilled into me, and I drilled it into countless of my players, and I know the Carolina staff sure as heck teaches that. JP is usually way better than he was last night. Just executing that one fundamental would likely have cut 1/3 to a 1/2 of Dekker's points and definitely his offensive rebounds.

But yeah, I'm with ya... if we don't make that ill-fated substitution of Britt for Berry we likely overcome all of the other factors against a very good Wisconsin team.

 

[Raising Heel]

Agree with that assessment of Tokoto, gary. The guy who's supposed to be our defensive stopper didn't have a very good game last night. I was pleased for the most part with our bigs' defense of Kaminsky, but we were uncharacteristically outworked on the boards.

 

[strummingram]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:

Originally posted by strummingram:
No one has mentioned that, despite playing one of our better games, Wisconsin was still a better team.

Exactly. Wisconsin's record is not simply the product of good fortune. Thanks for pointing out the forest while we're all fixated on the trees, strum.

I'm very encouraged by the outcome. We played them VERY close. It was a much closer game than I ever expected, and I'm typically a much more optimistic fan. I never expected UNC to play as efficiently as they did, for as long as they did. Wisconsin is sure hoping that they don't have to play us again next year!

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

OK... my 2 cents since everyone's offering theirs:

Gary is obsessive on the Berry>Britt thing... however he's not wrong. And I'm praying Roy realizes this in the offseason and we see much much more minutes out of Berry than Britt next year.

Good point by RH: Bolds, underlines, italics, and CAPS are all fairly annoying if just thrown in all hodgepodge into a post, and distracts from the post. However, Gary isnt as bad as another poster, who I won't call out directly, that FOR some reason THROWS a bunch of capitalized words in THERE that don't EVEN seem to be important WORDS to the conversation.

As for Billy and Gary: How the refs performed last night is an OPINION!!! It is not a fact!!!!!! It doesn't become a fact just because both of you say its a fact (Gary said it was a fact the refs were bad, Billy said it was a fact they weren't bad). There's no official "Foul-Meter" that determines whether an official made the correct call or the incorrect call. Yes there are replays, and in many situations its pretty clear that the ref should have made a different call, but still, that's an opinion.

I agree the refs made some bad calls last night, but whens the last college bball game you watched that the refs got 100% of the calls correct? There were some nickle-dimers i was yelling about at the time, but in hindsight, those didn't cost us the game. Could we have won without some of them, sure, but our players would have still needed to play better than they did in crunch time to get it done.

 

[CanuckChuck]

Gary: "I very specifically did NOT blame the refs. I pointed out they were bad."

No - you pointed out that Wisconsin got away with a lot of fouls. You called them biased against UNC, not just bad. That is some weak sauce.

FYI - my head exploded at the same point. My thought was "please don't let Wisky make a run cause Britt will catch hell on THR".

Cc

 

[strummingram]

Originally posted by Hark_The_Sound_2010:


However, Gary isnt as bad as another poster, who I won't call out directly, that FOR some reason THROWS a bunch of capitalized words in THERE that don't EVEN seem to be important WORDS to the conversation.

I know exactly who you mean. I always try and write words exactloy as I speak them. The use of punctuation, and italics, bold, and Caps, play a role in that.

But IT does make a difference where you put those INDICATIONS in THE sentences.

I always wonder "does he TALK like that?"

 

[gary-7]

Originally posted by BillyL:

gary, with all due respect, the excessive use of bold, underline, and italics distracts from the content of your post. It also makes you less credible IMO. If what you have to say is worth reading, it will stand on its own merits.

A few comments:



- The only 2 points UNC scored during that run came from Britt. Where's the criticism for his teammates' failure to score? Britt also had UNC's only rebound during that stretch.

- Britt took a bad shot, and had a turnover lead to an easy bucket for Wisconsin. That's on him.

- The other 7 Wisconsin points during the run came from a Kaminsky 3-pointer and layups from Dekker and Showalter. Britt was guarding Koening. Yet you claim the run was "mostly fueled" by Britt's shortcomings? C'mon, man.

Look, I completely agree that Berry represents our best long-term option at the PG position. But your non-stop campaign against Britt is really troubling IMO. You're practically obsessive. Berry can't play 40 minutes, and Roy wouldn't let him even if he could.

Alright, I'm gonna do this one last time. Point by point:

- Nate's a good FT shooter... glad he is. As for his teammates, the biggest reason for the scoring drought is that our half-court offense bogs down when he runs Point. I hate that it is true but it is a qualitative and quantitative fact. He still takes the ball into PG "no-man's land" and turns his back on the defense (a deadly sin for a PG, and why he got stripped), and thus the floor balance and spacing, and by implication, the passing lanes go awry.

- Yep. He had a very bad sequence.

- Nate found himself guarding two different players during that stretch (mostly Koenig). Both of them took him straight to the hole resulting in Wisky scores. Not excusng lapses by others by any means, but that battle didn't go well.

- Yes, Berry is indeed our best long-term option at PG, but more to the point, he has been our best option (when healthy) this season. Marcus is (by far) our best option at the 2. Put those two on the floor together and we become a qualitatively and quantitatively better team on both ends, and as Gminski put it a couple of weeks ago, "very difficult to defend". Nobody said anything about Berry playing "40 minutes" --- 25+ would've done just fine. As for any "obsession" against Britt? C'mon man... that's just silly. Nate is a great kid and can be a valuable contributor. He's just better against up-tempo opponents than against half-court oriented teams who can isolate him. And ironically, he's actually become a more effective 2 in our system than a 1. You just have to pick your spots with him.

BTW: The day I start caring about your opinion of my posting style will be the day Coach K stops cussing out refs.

 

[strummingram]

Originally posted by gary-7:
BTW: The day I start caring about your opinion of my posting style will be the day Coach K stops cussing out refs.

That should be your main focus. That is what we read. If your posting style is weak, then everything we red from you will likely not be what you intended. That's your choice, of course.

 

[gary-7]

Originally posted by CanuckChuck:
Gary: "I very specifically did NOT blame the refs. I pointed out they were bad."

No - you pointed out that Wisconsin got away with a lot of fouls. You called them biased against UNC, not just bad. That is some weak sauce.

FYI - my head exploded at the same point. My thought was "please don't let Wisky make a run cause Britt will catch hell on THR".

Cc

WTH are you talking about... or smoking? (got anymore?)
Seriously, go back an read the OP. Caveat #3 to be exact. Nothing weak in that sauce, bro.

 

[imajericho]

I daresay anyone who does not think Berry is our best PG doed not actually watch Carolina basketball. It is clear cut.

He makes the players around him better, he is betyer defensively, and he provides a scoring threat.



The only fouls that I thought really hurt us was some ticky tack big men fouls, the no block call on Tokotos drive (that was the worst), and the Justin Jackson shot not being an And 1.

However, not that bad a reffed game.


That said, what you all are failing to realize is... that Wisconson clearly unequivocally was taking advantage of that lineup. Britt was mixing up switches. Took a bad shot. And exposed our perimeter defense making them able to get clean looks and have lanes to drive.

And, Roy didn't fail by putting in Britt to rest Berry. Roy failed by NOT calling timeout to bring him back in once it was clear they were taking advtange of the lineup.

How many of you were screaming at your tv to call Timeout to get him out? How many of you even heard the announcer questioining why Roy wasm't calling timeouy before the lackadasical shot which gave Wisconsin yet another possession advtange against us.

It waa clear to everyone he had to call timeout to get Britt out afyer they dropped the lead to 1. He waited til we were down 5. That is where we lost. Bad coaching right there. And it cost us an elite eight.


It is no surprise Jacksons onsalught this season began when Berry started playing more.


Just watch what is in front of you guys.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Originally posted by gary-7:
BTW: The day I start caring about your opinion of my posting style will be the day Coach K stops cussing out refs.

In general, you could try not to act like a condescending ass all the time. You have some valid insights, but to be honest, I skip over 95% of your posts because in all of them you're either beating your own chest about how much you (think you) know, or you're berating someone else's opinion without offering up a counterpoint.

Just an idea. Carry on.

 

[gary-7]

Originally posted by strummingram:

Originally posted by gary-7:
BTW: The day I start caring about your opinion of my posting style will be the day Coach K stops cussing out refs.

That should be your main focus. That is what we read. If your posting style is weak, then everything we red from you will likely not be what you intended. That's your choice, of course.

Well, while we're at it let's dispense with periods, commas, paragraphs and punctuation in general... and I would hate for you to have "red" something that doesn't meet your exacting standards.

 

[Louigi]

The officiating was terrible and I agree with the OP summation of officiating. Every game the officiating has been God awful and embarrassing. I would say the same if UNC would have won by 20.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[DSouthr]

Folks, get a grip, stop with the punctionation nonsense... If you do not agree with a poster like Gary then share what you disagree with but if all you have is that you don't like his use of the underline or bold buttons then shame on you.

Look what is it, do ya disagree with what he is saying or just don't like that he is saying it? What I see apears to be more preference he not talk about such a sensitive subject much more than disagreement with what he is saying and has been consistently saying. Look, if I said Joel James had bad hands would you be upset with me for saying that or would you argue with me just because you prefer no one talk about the fact Joel does not have great hands? Joel's hands are not really disputable, we all know that, but nate being a weak defender is just as clear, if you watch the games, if you specifically watched nate defending and how his defense impacts the rest of our guys on the court.

Now if the way you watch a game is to follow the ball then you miss the game within the game, I watch the ball sure but I love to watch the rest of the game as well, the game off the ball to me is just as exciting and in many ways represents the game as a whole much better than what you see just watching the ball. If you specifically watch Nate on the defensive end then there is no dispute what you will see, it isn't subjective, it is clear cut. He is a little fella that is not really physically strong enough to defend college 1's or 2s, he takes poor defensive angles, he loses focus on that end consistently. Not dumping on the kid just reporting what I have seen through out this season, not liking the message is one thing, not liking the messenger is another. That doesn't say that Nate can not at times come up with a great defensive play, IE the block vs Arky, but Joel james hit a long jump shot to, that doesn't mean I want to see him used as a stretch 4 !

Is there a single one of you that would look forward to the very same nate britt starting for us next season? From what you have seen so far do you really believe that nate would give us more as a starter than Joel Berry? Maybe but Nate has a TON of improvement to get done before I could invision that. He has to get physically stronger, needs to really hit the weight room hard. He really needs to work on his ball handle, seemed to be really improved in that area this season but still has a way to go to be a solid ball handler, and he really needs to study & learn to defend and realize that he has to focus on that end as least as hard as he does on the offensive end. Nate has lost a ton of PT over the second half of this season because of these things and the one sure bet I have for ya, Joel berry will be working his tail off to keep the PT & it will be up to nate to take that away.

 

[franklin street]

i think you go with the hot hand.
pj 2 years ago and berry of late.

and the referees suck 9 times out of 10.

 

[CanuckChuck]

"WTH are you talking about... or smoking? (got anymore?)
Seriously, go back an read the OP. Caveat #3 to be exact. Nothing weak in that sauce, bro."

Yeah - saying that officiating did not cost UNC the game after posting:

"Wisconsin fouled up to 5 times per possession and Brice was maybe guilty of one total"

Is the weakest of sauce.

I can understand if you don't like the way the game is called. But if it doesn't matter in the final result, leave it at that. Don't give us multiple opinions that could easily change the outcome of the game and then say it doesn't matter. Makes it hard to take the rest of the post seriously.


CC