Tariffs and Trade Wars

[ticket2ride04]

Can anyone set aside their party affiliation and have an honest conversation about this escalating trade war with China? Very little of what Trump has done this far has had much of an effect on my life. He’s made libs cry and pubs perfect mental gymnastics.

But this tariff BS has me legit concerned. It’s basically something Bernie would do. The construction industry has been gaining steam over the last few years and set to explode with the tax cuts and possible infrastructure bill (God willing). However, if we continue to go down this road, it will set us back economically.

Personally, I hope he’s just negotiating for a better deal, but it’s a game chicken I don’t really want to play.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Tariffs are always bad for consumers. Sometimes they make up for it for a particular countries workforce, but for the most part I view them as negative. They hinder free trade, and I'm a consumer of these tariffed goods (albeit indirectly) and not a worker in these spaces, so I would much prefer no tariff.

 

[nctransplant]

Can anyone set aside their party affiliation and have an honest conversation about this escalating trade war with China? Very little of what Trump has done this far has had much of an effect on my life. He’s made libs cry and pubs perfect mental gymnastics.

But this tariff BS has me legit concerned. It’s basically something Bernie would do. The construction industry has been gaining steam over the last few years and set to explode with the tax cuts and possible infrastructure bill (God willing). However, if we continue to go down this road, it will set us back economically.

Personally, I hope he’s just negotiating for a better deal, but it’s a game chicken I don’t really want to play.

So if Bernie would do it @uncboy10 should be tickled pink?

 

[uncboy10]

Please find me one example of Bernie Sanders advocating for tariffs.

ETA: apparently he did advocate for tariffs against Chinese steel. I don't know why he thought that was a necessary solution to bad trade deals. I think we would probably disagree on this issue.

 

[ticket2ride04]

So if Bernie would do it @uncboy10 should be tickled pink?

If he were a blind homer, then yes. Very socialist position Trump is taking here. Hoping it’s just gusto but it’s a fine line he’s walking.

 

[ticket2ride04]

So if Bernie would do it @uncboy10 should be tickled pink?

Do you know what a tariff is?

 

[nctransplant]

Please find me one example of Bernie Sanders advocating for tariffs.

Ask the op

 

[ticket2ride04]

Tariffs are always bad for consumers. Sometimes they make up for it for a particular countries workforce, but for the most part I view them as negative. They hinder free trade, and I'm a consumer of these tariffed goods (albeit indirectly) and not a worker in these spaces, so I would much prefer no tariff.

This is my viewpoint as well. Especially when steel is such a huge part of our economy

 

[BillyL]

 

[BillyL]

Apparently, the DOW is outraged at the treatment of Sarah . .

 

[UNC71-00]

I am fundamentally opposed to tariffs for economic reasons, but the issue is that China, The EU, Canada, etc have been engaging in unfair trade practices for years. You can't have fair trade when one side doesn't play fairly.

 

[ticket2ride04]

I am fundamentally opposed to tariffs for economic reasons, but the issue is that China, The EU, Canada, etc have been engaging in unfair trade practices for years. You can't have fair trade when one side doesn't play fairly.

You’re not wrong. But I’m not sure this is the best way to go about it. We can ride it out against the EU. They aren’t in the best of shape. But playing economic chicken with China is some scary shit. Unlike the US, China doesn’t care about its people and will be fine to let them suffer if things get bad.

Don’t play chicken with psychos

 

[prlyles]

Tariffs are required sometimes but they need to be your last resort because both sides are going to lose. Trump's shoot and then aim approach is foolish.

 

[nctransplant]

Tariffs are required sometimes but they need to be your last resort because both sides are going to lose. Trump's shoot and then aim approach is foolish.

Fair trade has been part of his platform since he announced he was running. So shoot then aim isn't true.

 

[prlyles]

You’re not wrong. But I’m not sure this is the best way to go about it. We can ride it out against the EU. They aren’t in the best of shape. But playing economic chicken with China is some scary shit. Unlike the US, China doesn’t care about its people and will be fine to let them suffer if things get bad.

Don’t play chicken with psychos

China is betting we won't stand for the economy to go down the tube over tariffs. I think they feel if the economy goes south, Trumps a goner

 

[ticket2ride04]

Fair trade has been part of his platform since he announced he was running. So shoot then aim isn't true.

You’re partly correct. He’s been a proponent of tariffs to level the playing field. Thats a very leftist/interventionalist position. I always assumed it was bluster. I hope he backs off of it.

 

[UNC71-00]

You’re not wrong. But I’m not sure this is the best way to go about it. We can ride it out against the EU. They aren’t in the best of shape. But playing economic chicken with China is some scary shit. Unlike the US, China doesn’t care about its people and will be fine to let them suffer if things get bad.

Don’t play chicken with psychos

I know, I know. But one thing for which I will credit Trump is that at least he is trying something, as opposed to the complete hands off approach of every past president since Nixon opened China. At some point, someone has to confront unfair trade practices, right? Or just let them go unchecked forever?

If the solution isn't to trade with them as they are trading with us, then what other credible options exist?

 

[UNC71-00]

You’re partly correct. He’s been a proponent of tariffs to level the playing field. Thats a very leftist/interventionalist position. I always assumed it was bluster. I hope he backs off of it.

There will have to be a reason for him to back off, and given his approval on his handling of the economy, I don't see what that reason could be.

 

[prlyles]

Fair trade has been part of his platform since he announced he was running. So shoot then aim isn't true.

Come on you and I both know he puts more time and thought into what tie he wears everyday than he has this.

 

[UNC71-00]

Come on you and I both know he puts more time and thought into what tie he wears everyday than he has this.

This is why threads get ruined.

Can you please stop your incessant whining and bitching about Trump in every single thread? Your position on his style and personality is well documented. Either keep on the topic or just go somewhere else and play. Or stay if you want and pretty soon it will be you, Billy, Boy and Strum in a 4 man circle jerk.

 

[ticket2ride04]

I know, I know. But one thing for which I will credit Trump is that at least he is trying something, as opposed to the complete hands off approach of every past president since Nixon opened China. At some point, someone has to confront unfair trade practices, right? Or just let them go unchecked forever?

If the solution isn't to trade with them as they are trading with us, then what other credible options exist?

There will have to be a reason for him to back off, and given his approval on his handling of the economy, I don't see what that reason could be.

I’m not sure what the long term play is. Let the free market work itself out is usually my fall back.

My concern is we embolden our traditional allies to do more business with China and we further withdraw from the world. The reason we’ve always played world police, suffered bad deals, and paid so much into NATO was simply because we wanted to be the preeminent global power. Maybe packing our shit up and focusing on domestic issues is a good thing. But we concede a lot of the power we’ve worked to gain since WW2

 

[UNC71-00]

I’m not sure what the long term play is. Let the free market work itself out is usually my fall back

I agree, but the free market hasn't been able to work this out since trade relations with China were normalize over 40 years ago. Both partners need to have a free market to depend on free market principles to work.

My concern is we embolden our traditional allies to do more business with China and we further withdraw from the world. The reason we’ve always played world police, suffered bad deals, and paid so much into NATO was simply because we wanted to be the preeminent global power. Maybe packing our shit up and focusing on domestic issues is a good thing. But we concede a lot of the power we’ve worked to gain since WW2

Don't our traditional allies do as much business as possible now with China?

And I'm not sure how much power we will cede by forcing others to play fairly. I guess that's what this is all about, huh? And how much power is really needed at this point?

 

[heelmanwilm]

Tough call. You want to create and protect american jobs but you risk driving up prices and inflation. Countries always retaliate with tariffs of their own on our products. Prob is the american consumer in our throw away culture is more than willing to go to walmart and sacrifice quality for price.

 

[ticket2ride04]

I agree, but the free market hasn't been able to work this out since trade relations with China were normalize over 40 years ago. Both partners need to have a free market to depend on free market principles to work.



Don't our traditional allies do as much business as possible now with China?

And I'm not sure how much power we will cede by forcing others to play fairly. I guess that's what this is all about, huh? And how much power is really needed at this point?

I can only answer your questions with more questions. I don’t know what the right move is and I don’t pretend to know. Trump will have 2 or possibly 6 more years. For good or bad, it’s not long enough to do irreparable harm/good. If nothing else, we get to see what happens.

I suspect the things we worry about now will be vastly different 10-15 years from now. Automation being at the top.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I’m not sure what the long term play is. Let the free market work itself out is usually my fall back.

My concern is we embolden our traditional allies to do more business with China and we further withdraw from the world. The reason we’ve always played world police, suffered bad deals, and paid so much into NATO was simply because we wanted to be the preeminent global power. Maybe packing our shit up and focusing on domestic issues is a good thing. But we concede a lot of the power we’ve worked to gain since WW2

I agree with all of this. But to @UNC71-00 ’s point, do we still need that power? Do we still need to constantly flex?

 

[UNC71-00]

Tough call. You want to create and protect american jobs but you risk driving up prices and inflation. Countries always retaliate with tariffs of their own on our products. Prob is the american consumer in our throw away culture is more than willing to go to walmart and sacrifice quality for price.

Yes but in this case, it is the US which is retaliating with tariffs.

 

[prlyles]

This is why threads get ruined.

Can you please stop your incessant whining and bitching about Trump in every single thread? Your position on his style and personality is well documented. Either keep on the topic or just go somewhere else and play. Or stay if you want and pretty soon it will be you, Billy, Boy and Strum in a 4 man circle jerk.

GFY , has nothing to do with his style or his personality. It has everything to do with his ability to lead a country.

 

[UNC71-00]

GFY , has nothing to do with his style or his personality. It has everything to do with his ability to lead a country.

Yes, it has everything to do with your disdain of Trump's style and personality. You want to bitch about policy- go right ahead. But you never do that.

We get that you don't like Trump. He embarrassed you. Get over yourself and start adding something relevant to the threads. Or just send Billy DMs and leave the rest of us out of your nonsense.

 

[BillyL]

This is why threads get ruined.

Can you please stop your incessant whining and bitching about Trump in every single thread? Your position on his style and personality is well documented. Either keep on the topic or just go somewhere else and play. Or stay if you want and pretty soon it will be you, Billy, Boy and Strum in a 4 man circle jerk.

Still trying to control the narrative & content I see . . cry me a river, MAGAt . .

 

[ticket2ride04]

I agree with all of this. But to @UNC71-00 ’s point, do we still need that power? Do we still need to constantly flex?

I’m not sure. When I was younger, I was a big fan of isolationism. I’m somewhat in the middle now. We dictate what happens on the global scale for the most part because of the power we wield. What happens if we cede that?

 

[prlyles]

Yes, it has everything to do with your disdain of Trump's style and personality. You want to bitch about policy- go right ahead. But you never do that.

We get that you don't like Trump. He embarrassed you. Get over yourself and start adding something relevant to the threads. Or just send Billy DMs and leave the rest of us out of your nonsense.

Trump has one policy, whatever is good for Trump and I'm not even sure what you mean by his style and personality.

 

[UNC71-00]

Still trying to control the narrative & content I see . . cry me a river, MAGAt . .

No, I just tell idiots that they are idiots. Of course, most of the idiots don't get that, because if they did, they wouldn't be idiots.

 

[BillyL]

No, I just tell idiots that they are idiots. Of course, most of the idiots don't get that, because if they did, they wouldn't be idiots.

You're the idiot.

 

[prlyles]

One question to Trump supporters and I promise I will not reply, I really want to know. Does it not bother you for him to lie to you on a daily basis? I know other leaders have also but does it not bother you that you really can't believe a word the man says? TIA

 

[UNC71-00]

One question to Trump supporters and I promise I will not reply, I really want to know. Does it not bother you for him to lie to you on a daily basis? I know other leaders have also but does it not bother you that you really can't believe a word the man says? TIA

There are plenty of things he says which I believe, so your question is absurd from the start.

 

[HEELS1984]

It all depends on if tariffs effect your business, I work in agriculture, and since trump announced tariffs and other countries retaliated, the markets have really dropped, if they don’t change or continue to go down, I figure I’ll lose around a half million or more in commodity prices

 

[ticket2ride04]

It all depends on if tariffs effect your business, I work in agriculture, and since trump announced tariffs and other countries retaliated, the markets have really dropped, if they don’t change or continue to go down, I figure I’ll lose around a half million or more in commodity prices

This sucks.

My uncle is a tobacco farmer, and lifelong conservative. I have not asked him his thoughts on this stuff and not sure if I will. But I know most of his tobacco finds its way to China. He's also into soy a good bit.

 

[HEELS1984]

This sucks.

My uncle is a tobacco farmer, and lifelong conservative. I have not asked him his thoughts on this stuff and not sure if I will. But I know most of his tobacco finds its way to China. He's also into soy a good bit.

I have 6000 acres of beans, so yeah these tariffs are going to hurt, and since tariffs were announced most commodity prices have gone down quite a bit also

 

[heelbent]

But I know most of his tobacco finds its way to China.

I didn't realize that. When the tobacco market in the US went to hades we were told that 99% of what the farm was producing was going to Central/South America. I had always assumed that was still the case. Interesting.

 

[BillyL]

This sucks.

My uncle is a tobacco farmer, and lifelong conservative. I have not asked him his thoughts on this stuff and not sure if I will. But I know most of his tobacco finds its way to China. He's also into soy a good bit.

Soy is taking a big hit . . much of that exported goes to China. They mad . .