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The Recruiting Game

FlaTarHeel

FlaTarHeel

Hall of Famer
Feb 21, 2017
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Lo Romar hires Michael Porter Sr, who bring his AA and future lottery pick son, Mike Jr.
Lo gets fired after 5 straight garbage seasons.

Cuonzo Martin leaves Cal, mainly because those kind of shenanigans wont go over well there. So he heads back to Mizzou where no one really cares.

Cuonzo's first phone today was to newly "unemployed" Mike Porter Sr. ;)

M. Kay wiggles his way into the Team USA job after watching John C take recruiting to a level never seen before in college hoops.

Kay's level of recruits goes from pretty good to "unchartered", even by his standards.o_O

#TheGame, stay tuned.
 
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Cuonzo is shady IMO. What an underwhelming hire for Mizzou. The dude couldn't get it done at UT or Cal and won't at Mizzou either.
 
FlaTarHeel said:
Lo Romar hires Michael Porter Sr, who bring his AA and future lottery pick son, Mike Jr.
Lo gets fired after 5 straight garbage seasons.

Cuonzo Martin leaves Cal, mainly because those kind of shenanigans wont go over well there. So he heads back to Mizzou where no one really cares.

Cuonzo's first phone today was to newly "unemployed" Mike Porter Sr. ;)

M. Kay wiggles his way into the Team USA job after watching John C take recruiting to a level never seen before in college hoops.

Kay's level of recruits goes from pretty good to "unchartered", even by his standards.o_O

#TheGame, stay tuned.
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K was coaching team USA before Calipari took recruiting to another level at UK.
 
FlaTarHeel said:
Lo Romar hires Michael Porter Sr, who bring his AA and future lottery pick son, Mike Jr.
Lo gets fired after 5 straight garbage seasons.

Cuonzo Martin leaves Cal, mainly because those kind of shenanigans wont go over well there. So he heads back to Mizzou where no one really cares.

Cuonzo's first phone today was to newly "unemployed" Mike Porter Sr. ;)

M. Kay wiggles his way into the Team USA job after watching John C take recruiting to a level never seen before in college hoops.

Kay's level of recruits goes from pretty good to "unchartered", even by his standards.o_O

#TheGame, stay tuned.
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Careful... this might go over some heads... or offend delicate dookie sensibilities... or both :eek: :cool:.
 
They considered a rule to prohibit hiring anyone associated with a recruit. I think the rule said something like if they hired someone with a tie to a recruit, the recruit could not attend said U until some period after they stopped working there. Does anyone know if this rule was actually adopted by the NCAA?

ratty and his program are dirty (opinion) and USA BBall had a tremendous effect on their recruiting. (fact!) One day, after He who should not be named retires, many things will be revealed! (Just one man's opinion!)
 
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^
More facts than you realize, and many will admit publicly.
He's no "leader of men", this I know.
 
dlew71 said:
will be interesting to see if IU lets Tom Crean go and if they do where he turns up
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I heard that IU would not host the NIT games because they thought it was beneath them...why they played and lost at Georgia Tech...I can't believe that they would keep him around!
 
TPFKAPFS said:
They considered a rule to prohibit hiring anyone associated with a recruit. I think the rule said something like if they hired someone with a tie to a recruit, the recruit could not attend said U until some period after they stopped working there. Does anyone know if this rule was actually adopted by the NCAA?
(Just one man's opinion!)
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Unless it changed recently, the basketball rule has been they just can't be hired for non-coaching (off-court) activities, in other words it was ok to hire them as actual coaches. Football is set to implement the rule on July 1 (IIRC?), which has/will put a damper on big programs snagging HS coaches (who just happened to be the coach of a coveted recruit) as "off-field-analysts" or "quality-control" guys.
 
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I can get on board with some of what youre saying op, but are you really implying that K only got onto usa basketball after calipari started doing what hes doing? You do realize hes had that job for over ten years, right? Saying stuff like this totally makes your arguments look flimsy at best.
 
Heeelz46 said:
I can get on board with some of what youre saying op, but are you really implying that K only got onto usa basketball after calipari started doing what hes doing? You do realize hes had that job for over ten years, right? Saying stuff like this totally makes your arguments look flimsy at best.
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Ask the NBA guys like Popovich and other big name coaches if my statement is "flimsy".

Those guys have said(publicly at times) how ridiculous is was that kay continued to coach that team, to his personal advantage.
 
Heeelz46 said:
I can get on board with some of what youre saying op, but are you really implying that K only got onto usa basketball after calipari started doing what hes doing? You do realize hes had that job for over ten years, right? Saying stuff like this totally makes your arguments look flimsy at best.
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I believe @FlaTarHeel is saying is that instead of rotating out as he should have, K stayed (and stayed) and made it his personal fiefdom, thus morphing it from just a normal cool thing into what has become a (much recognized) ongoing unfair recruiting advantage.
 
FlaTarHeel said:
Ask the NBA guys like Popovich and other big name coaches if my statement is "flimsy".

Those guys have said(publicly at times) how ridiculous is was that kay continued to coach that team, to his personal advantage.
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do you have proof of this? also,from everything Ive read, the players on those teams seemed to genuinely like playing for him. Im nauseaous right now having to defend K, but youre throwing some pretty ridiculous claims out there.
 
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Thanks for the rules reply. I could swear the NCAA was looking at adopting a much stronger rule that would prohibit a recruit from attending a U that had hired anybody with any connection to said recruit! Maybe it was just a consideration at their annual rules review meetings that didn't get adopted.

In any case nobody can spend too much time in the recruiting game without wading in a little slime. I don't know how principled men like DES and Roy can stomach it!
 
GACMAN said:
I heard that IU would not host the NIT games because they thought it was beneath them...why they played and lost at Georgia Tech...I can't believe that they would keep him around!
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i was under the impression it was related to the fact the IU students / university are on break
that said happy for their loss still cannot believe the Heels lost to both teams this year
 
Heeelz46 said:
do you have proof of this? also,from everything Ive read, the players on those teams seemed to genuinely like playing for him. Im nauseaous right now having to defend K, but youre throwing some pretty ridiculous claims out there.
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I think the proof is all the coaches who stopped coaching team USA after 1 stint, to allow someone else to have the honor to do so
 
Sort of hard not to chuckle at the constant implications that every other top program (EXCEPT us of course) is "shady". We're under a multi-year investigation for an 18 year scandal that even our AD and Roy admit happened, only that it's not under the NCAA's purview.

There is nothing ilegal about hiring a recruit's parent as an assistant coach. Nothing. It's absolutely within the rules. To say that is "shady" is like saying saving in a 401k is "shady" because you get to defer taxes. Should it be the policy? Maybe not. But if you're not doing it you are falling behind, because it is the policy.

As for using Team USA for personal advantage, of course he is. Was your last career move not for your own personal advantage? Most are. And there's nothing wrong with that, this isn't Little Sisters of the Poor charity work. If it's too big of an unfair advantage, the rules should be changed. But you can't call someone shady for wanting to be a Team USA coach. What a cool gig. We didnt't give up the huge advantage having the GOAT play for us gave UNC basketball. Nor should we.

The whole thing is really tough because recruiting isn't exactly like clubbing baby seals. No one is getting hurt here. So I wish our fans would see all of the unfair criticism that's been hurled at us and chill out with trying to cast stones. It's human to try to find reasons to dislike the outgroup, but really, it's not very likely we are the one clean program and everyone else is cheating.
 
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Calling another program dirty is not even implying our University didn't break rules. I have read many peeps saying the basketball program at puke is dirty and especially implying that Capel is the most egregious offender. ( I have no real proof if this is true or not though)This is what is being said about puke and so far the 18 years of investigation have not turned up a single thing that says the UNC Men's basketball program broke any rules! A professor at UNC certainly broke some rules (even though the paper classes were legit and used at most universities) and some peeps in administration did some shady things to cover their own arses. This is true, but not one shred of evidence has implicated Roy or the Men's team in this scandal! Do you think any of the other top programs you mentioned could survive decades of intense scrutiny and come out as clean as UNC is so far?

Questions:
1. If I have ever made a mistake, does this mean I can never say someone else has?
2. Is there some law out there that says every time I criticize someone else, I have to mention all of my own mistakes?

Not one person has said ratty shouldn't have been the coach of USA Basketball. Not one person said there is anything wrong with ratty being involved with the USA teams and we all acknowledge his teams have been successful! DES coached and we were proud for our coach to represent this country! The point is : ratty has monopolized the job for longer than any coach in history and this has become an unfair recruiting advantage. The job should either be rotated through college coaches or simply earmarked for Pro coaches going forward.

Every team uses famous alumni and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Furthermore, this fact has nothing to do with your previous argument and weakens an already lacking premise! Using famous alumni is a practice open to ANY school, while there can only be ONE head coach at USA bball at a time!
 
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I don't think Roy or K "run" a dirty program. K I think has tried his best to cover things up when he found about them such as Lance Thomas and Sulamon. He also crosses the line in his constant whining to refs and teaching the art of the flop. His USA coaches created a huge advantage. The rules should allow coaches to coach the team, but a forced rotation after one time. He indeed stayed longer than he should because it did give him an advantage.
 
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Questions:
1. If I have ever made a mistake, does this mean I can never say someone else has?

No, but those mistakes make your thoughts on similar matters a heck of a lot less credible. This is what you see often on this board. People love making outlandish predictions and claims, then get mad when someone calls them out for being wrong.

Think of it like if you break someone's trust, then get mad because people don't trust you anymore.

2. Is there some law out there that says every time I criticize someone else, I have to mention all of my own mistakes?

Speaking of law, don't the courts have the prerogative to call your past "mistakes" into question?

I'm no legal expert, but using a "law" example to justify mistakes doesn't really help your case.
 
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Some of you misassociate how things are vs how things should be. The characterization of anything that gives someone else an advantage that you don't get (or in our case, refuse to use) as "shady" needs to be stopped. This is the mentality of the type of people that want to give out participation trophies.

As far as these allegations against all of these coaches by OP: So what? Neither K nor the Porter's recruitments were breaking any rules, legal or set by the NCAA. If we weren't so busy missing recruits year in/year out, this wouldn't even be an issue here. If Roy was the 3x Head Coach of NBA Basketball, we'd be on the opposite side of this argument.

Like @gauchoheel pointed out, some of you here love to throw stones and hide your hands. We're still in the midst of an academic issue that has zero signs of ending anytime soon, thanks to unexplainable delays from both sides. So yes, when we criticize others for "mistakes" or "shadiness" or whatever you want to call it, it does look extremely silly from a different POV.
 
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RoseHeel said:
Some of you misassociate how things are vs how things should be. The characterization of anything that gives someone else an advantage that you don't get (or in our case, refuse to use) as "shady" needs to be stopped. This is the mentality of the type of people that want to give out participation trophies.

As far as these allegations against all of these coaches by OP: So what? Neither K nor the Porter's recruitments were breaking any rules, legal or set by the NCAA. If we weren't so busy missing recruits year in/year out, this wouldn't even be an issue here. If Roy was the 3x Head Coach of NBA Basketball, we'd be on the opposite side of this argument.

Like @gauchoheel pointed out, some of you here love to throw stones and hide your hands. We're still in the midst of an academic issue that has zero signs of ending anytime soon, thanks to unexplainable delays from both sides. So yes, when we criticize others for "mistakes" or "shadiness" or whatever you want to call it, it does look extremely silly from a different POV.
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Great post, we look ridiculous throwing these accusations at these other places. Like you say, if Roy was reeling in recruits how we used to I bet no one here would even be concerned with what these other programs were doing. Strikes me as disingenous at best.
 
RoseHeel said:
If Roy was the 3x Head Coach of NBA Basketball, we'd be on the opposite side of this argument.
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Speak for yourself (and I'm assuming you meant "USA" not "NBA"). If that was the case other fanbases would complain, and ya know what? They'd be right. And I for one would be the first to agree. Fact is though, it's NOT the case, nor would it be, because Roy would step down after one stint.

As for the rest of this PC-apologist-fest ITT, all I can say is hogwash. The current NCAA junk had zero to do with the men's basketball program (without some wild stretch of imagination) and certainly not recruiting. Tell me the last time we even had any credible allegations of major recruiting violations? (Hint: It goes back to Frank McGuire).

As for OP, @FlaTarHeel probably has more intimate knowledge of contemporary recruiting than the rest of us in this thread combined.
 
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There are enough stories about Dean having guys stolen through shady means to write a decent sized book, and he was pretty consistently pulling in great classes, so the idea that these observations are sour grapes doesn't hold water in the least. Hiring a kid's dad is pretty obvious, legal/allowed or not. These issues impact the overall landscape of recruiting and are fair game in my book.
 
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gary-7 said:
Speak for yourself (and I'm assuming you meant "USA" not "NBA"). If that was the case other fanbases would complain, and ya know what? They'd be right. And I for one would be the first to agree. Fact is though, it's NOT the case, nor would it be, because Roy would step down after one stint.

As for the rest of this PC-apologist-fest ITT, all I can say is hogwash. The current NCAA junk had zero to do with the men's basketball program (without some wild stretch of imagination) and certainly not recruiting. Tell me the last time we even had any credible allegations of major recruiting violations? (Hint: It goes back to Frank McGuire).

As for OP, @FlaTarHeel probably has more intimate knowledge of contemporary recruiting than the rest of us in this thread combined.
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"crdible allegations". You mean like the one the NCAA is currently holding over our heads? They seem to think it holds some merit.

If it wasn't in part for the NCAA dragging their feet and overstepping their bounds with these NOA's, we could be in some real trouble. At the end of the day, we'll most likely get off because we "technically" didn't break the NCAA rules. You know, just like how Cuonzo Martin isn't "technically" breaking any NCAA rules by hiring someone close to the recruit? :eek:

You're right, it's not the case. The fact is:
  • K was the USA Basketball coach for 3 straight stints
  • It earned him a good amount of success
  • There were no rules or laws set to keep him from doing so.

K didn't force the USA Basketball committee to keep accepting him back. Hell, they probably would have let him come back a 4th time if he wanted. So tell me how any of that makes it "shady"? And let's skip on the claims that have no shreds of proof. I'd love to meet the altruistic competitor that would gladly turn down a completely rule-abiding opportunity of continued success.

Whenever K actually gets nailed for some of these severe claims, feel free to get back to me.

I don't know who the "PC-apologist-fest" applies to. So far, this thread has been our fans complaining because other coaches are using new tactics to beat out whatever "tried and true" approach some of you swear by.

I won't speak to or against OP's credit as I've not really conversed with him on such matters. That being said, the trend of those who tend to have "more information" does not always hold true. I do hope he's right about Kevin Knox though.
 
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I think reading comprehension is the culprit here! Unless English has changed while I wasn't looking I never tried to "justify" anything much less a mistake. Secondly, if making a mistake means you are no longer credible, then most of us need to never speak again. I think making mistakes can actually give you insight others don't have. Maybe you have never heard the phrase, "is there a law" before, but it actually is not meant to be taken literally. It is figurative language referring to habit, rules, or custom prohibiting certain behaviors.

None of this intentional misunderstanding of plain English changes the fact that UNC Basketball has not done a single thing wrong! (Other than missing a few recruits and not sinking to the level of lesser programs)

Go Tar Heels! Great win today and thank goodness JB seems ok!
 
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RoseHeel said:
"crdible allegations". You mean like the one the NCAA is currently holding over our heads? They seem to think it holds some merit.


I won't speak to or against OP's credit as I've not really conversed with him on such matters. That being said, the trend of those who tend to have "more information" does not always hold true. I do hope he's right about Kevin Knox though.
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One more time.
There are no recruiting allegations in the NCAA junk. Period.

As for OP re: Knox, he has more info than he's shared with the board. All I'll say is let's just hope Kevin follows his heart.
 
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FlaTarHeel said:
Lo Romar hires Michael Porter Sr, who bring his AA and future lottery pick son, Mike Jr.
Lo gets fired after 5 straight garbage seasons.

Cuonzo Martin leaves Cal, mainly because those kind of shenanigans wont go over well there. So he heads back to Mizzou where no one really cares.

Cuonzo's first phone today was to newly "unemployed" Mike Porter Sr. ;)

#TheGame, stay tuned.
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...annnnddd, just like clockwork:
http://www.espn.com/recruiting/bask...hael-porter-jr-ask-release-washington-huskies
 
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