Tim Brando says

[WoadBlue]

ND in talks to go full member in football.

Brando has said many times that he thinks ND is perfect for the ACC in all sports, and that eventually ND will play a full ACC football schedule. He is not the type top make claims to hype himself or anything else.

I have felt that ND will make the move, but only after it has played the 5 game slate for at least 6 years, which would mean ND has played everyone at least twice, once at Home and once on the Road. Perhaps any such talks are finalizing that.

So, if this is going down, which school do you think will be #16. Which schools would you prefer be #16?

 

[HeelFan58]

ND in talks to go full member in football.

Brando has said many times that he thinks ND is perfect for the ACC in all sports, and that eventually ND will play a full ACC football schedule. He is not the type top make claims to hype himself or anything else.

I have felt that ND will make the move, but only after it has played the 5 game slate for at least 6 years, which would mean ND has played everyone at least twice, once at Home and once on the Road. Perhaps any such talks are finalizing that.

So, if this is going down, which school do you think will be #16. Which schools would you prefer be #16?

Tim Brando doesn't need to hype himself , he is already a legend and one of my favorites. The 16th team hmmm , I keep hearing the Big 12 is going to crumble in a few years , so we could start there with Texas.

 

[tarheel0910]

Tim Brando doesn't need to hype himself , he is already a legend and one of my favorites. The 16th team hmmm , I keep hearing the Big 12 is going to crumble in a few years , so we could start there with Texas.

Texas is too far. If we go after a big 12 team it would be WVA. I know it would be controversial, but I wouldn't mind going after PSU. Navy wouldn't be a bad choice either in my opinion. Just need to stay away from UCONN and Cincinnati.

 

[WoadBlue]

Texas is too far. If we go after a big 12 team it would be WVA. I know it would be controversial, but I wouldn't mind going after PSU. Navy wouldn't be a bad choice either in my opinion. Just need to stay away from UCONN and Cincinnati.

'Too far away' changes depending on the school.Southwest AR borders northeast TX. The U of Ark is too far away for the ACC, but the U of Texas is not too far away for the ACC. Why? Because UT is much more valuable than UArk, and TX is much much much more valuable than AR.

If Texas wants in the ACC, Texas is getting the official offer. So the question si: would Texas have interest in the ACC?

I say, Yes, without hesitation. That does not mean that Texas sees the ACC as anything close to ideal for Texas. It means that every option Texas now has is far from ideal. Every option (including staying in a 10 team Big 12 or adding to make a 12 team Big 12) is bad in some way.

The SEC has forever ruined the Big 12. It will never again be anything more than a shell of its original version. Not only will Texas not be happy in such a reduced league for long (I say it is unhappy now), but OU clearly is ready to jump when it gets the offer it wants.

If Texas goes Left Coast with A&M in the SEC, Texas will begin to lose its state to A&M. If Texas Big Ten with A&M in the SEC, Texas will also begin to lose many parts of its state to A&M. Any move Texas makes that is not to a conference that is significantly based in the South is a move that should aid Aggie football and baseball at the expense of Horns football and baseball.

And if Texas goes SEC, Texas has practically bent over and admitted that the SEC owns it and has the right to beat its loser ass whenever it takes a fancy. Texas has too much pride for that.

And so, the ACC is a more than barely viable option for Texas. Would going ACC be a middle finger to the SEC? Yep. Would going ACC keep Texas primarily in the South? Yep. Would going ACC place Texas in a league with significantly higher academically ranked schools? Yep. Would going ACC put Texas in the coveted Eastern Time Zone for league games? Yep. With Texas on board, could ACC football and baseball expect to at least equal SEC football and baseball in terms of annual quality? Yep. In the ACC, would Texas basketball see a huge increase in national attention? Yep.

And as important as any of the above: what would be the biggest bang move that Texas could make? Playing ND annually in football. That would drive A&M and the SEC nuts forever.

 

[tarheel0910]

'Too far away' changes depending on the school.Southwest AR borders northeast TX. The U of Ark is too far away for the ACC, but the U of Texas is not too far away for the ACC. Why? Because UT is much more valuable than UArk, and TX is much much much more valuable than AR.

If Texas wants in the ACC, Texas is getting the official offer. So the question si: would Texas have interest in the ACC?

I say, Yes, without hesitation. That does not mean that Texas sees the ACC as anything close to ideal for Texas. It means that every option Texas now has is far from ideal. Every option (including staying in a 10 team Big 12 or adding to make a 12 team Big 12) is bad in some way.

The SEC has forever ruined the Big 12. It will never again be anything more than a shell of its original version. Not only will Texas not be happy in such a reduced league for long (I say it is unhappy now), but OU clearly is ready to jump when it gets the offer it wants.

If Texas goes Left Coast with A&M in the SEC, Texas will begin to lose its state to A&M. If Texas Big Ten with A&M in the SEC, Texas will also begin to lose many parts of its state to A&M. Any move Texas makes that is not to a conference that is significantly based in the South is a move that should aid Aggie football and baseball at the expense of Horns football and baseball.

And if Texas goes SEC, Texas has practically bent over and admitted that the SEC owns it and has the right to beat its loser ass whenever it takes a fancy. Texas has too much pride for that.

And so, the ACC is a more than barely viable option for Texas. Would going ACC be a middle finger to the SEC? Yep. Would going ACC keep Texas primarily in the South? Yep. Would going ACC place Texas in a league with significantly higher academically ranked schools? Yep. Would going ACC put Texas in the coveted Eastern Time Zone for league games? Yep. With Texas on board, could ACC football and baseball expect to at least equal SEC football and baseball in terms of annual quality? Yep. In the ACC, would Texas basketball see a huge increase in national attention? Yep.

And as important as any of the above: what would be the biggest bang move that Texas could make? Playing ND annually in football. That would drive A&M and the SEC nuts forever.

All that is great and wonderful, but I don't want them over PSU. The biggest problem with TX is the longhorn network. They would have to give it up to join. I don't think that happens.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

If notre dame becomes full member how does their tv gig with NBC work out?

I have no clue. But I think it was ridiculous what we allowed them to join as a partial member in the first place. They received much more benefit than the conference. It was all win for them...

 

[tarheel0910]

If notre dame becomes full member how does their tv gig with NBC work out?

I have no clue. But I think it was ridiculous what we allowed them to join as a partial member in the first place. They received much more benefit than the conference. It was all win for them...

My guess would be they would join for football after the NBC contract is up. If they join, the conference would benefit just as much as them. That was the whole point. If they want to have a chance to win a championship they are going to have to join a conference that has a championship game. They know that, which is why I think they will make the jump at some point.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

But I think it was ridiculous what we allowed them to join as a partial member in the first place. They received much more benefit than the conference. It was all win for them...

I think you are severely misinformed if this is your opinion.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

ND isn't going anywhere until that NBC contract is up (and if it doesn't get renewed).

At that point, no need for Navy. Navy has been in the conversation as bait to lure ND to the ACC - if ND was already joining of their own accord, no need for Navy anymore.

WVU would be a good fit, and have a rivalry with Pitt. The diddlers would bring a nice football following, and also have a rivalry with Pitt, but that's it (although a nice football following is a big "it"). Texas would be the prize though if that could somehow be worked out, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it. Agreed that Cincy and Uconn would be disasters.

 

[tarheel0910]

ND isn't going anywhere until that NBC contract is up (and if it doesn't get renewed).

It runs out in 2025. They are currently getting $15 million a year. That's less than they would get with the ACC. They could go ahead and join and keep their NBC money (without a share of the ACC football revenue), but I think the most likely scenario is them joining in 2025 or negotiating some sort of buyout with NBC.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

It runs out in 2025. They are currently getting $15 million a year. That's less than they would get with the ACC. They could go ahead and join and keep their NBC money (without a share of the ACC football revenue), but I think the most likely scenario is them joining in 2025 or negotiating some sort of buyout with NBC.

Or just keep their NBC contract for their home games and still join the ACC in football. All the other ACC schools in ND's future division will benefit from national exposure on NBC every other season.

 

[tarheel0910]

Or just keep their NBC contract for their home games and still join the ACC in football. All the other ACC schools in ND's future division will benefit from national exposure on NBC every other season.

That's basically what they are doing now, they're just playing 5 instead of 8 conference games. Speaking of divisions, I wonder how they would decide that. It would make sense to realign in my opinion. I would think they would go to the coastal if there is no realignment.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

That's basically what they are doing now, they're just playing 5 instead of 8 conference games. Speaking of divisions, I wonder how they would decide that. It would make sense to realign in my opinion. I would think they would go to the coastal if there is no realignment.

There HAS to be a division realignment.

Ultimately, though, I think a Notre Dame entry into ACC Football full-time is going to have to dovetail with the NCAA relenting on their dumb rule of "to have a conference championship game, you must have two equal size divisions with full round-robin intra-divisional play."

I say this for two reasons:

1. If you are at 16 teams, even if you go to 9 conference games (something I'm really against FWIW), you are only playing the other 7 opposite division teams once every seven years. No school is going to like that.
2. Going along with #1, if you simply throw Notre Dame in a division, the schools from the other division are going to flip out that they now only see ND once every seven years and only host them once every 14 years, while eight ACC teams will get to host them every other year.

 

[tarheel0910]

There HAS to be a division realignment.

Ultimately, though, I think a Notre Dame entry into ACC Football full-time is going to have to dovetail with the NCAA relenting on their dumb rule of "to have a conference championship game, you must have two equal size divisions with full round-robin intra-divisional play."

I say this for two reasons:

1. If you are at 16 teams, even if you go to 9 conference games (something I'm really against FWIW), you are only playing the other 7 opposite division teams once every seven years. No school is going to like that.
2. Going along with #1, if you simply throw Notre Dame in a division, the schools from the other division are going to flip out that they now only see ND once every seven years and only host them once every 14 years, while eight ACC teams will get to host them every other year.

Or we could just tell moo to GFY and kick them out. That would be perfect.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Or we could just tell moo to GFY and kick them out. That would be perfect.

As much as that would be great, it won't happen lol.

Even if we stay at 14, I still want the ACC to keep the pressure on the NCAA about dropping the requirements I mentioned above. Having 14 teams lends perfectly to the 3+5 setup.

 

[tarheel0910]

As much as that would be great, it won't happen lol.

Even if we stay at 14, I still want the ACC to keep the pressure on the NCAA about dropping the requirements I mentioned above. Having 14 teams lends perfectly to the 3+5 setup.

According to moo fans, it's only a matter of time before the SEC gives them an invite so I guess that will take care of one problem

 

[TarHeelNation11]

According to moo fans, it's only a matter of time before the SEC gives them an invite so I guess that will take care of one problem

True.

 

[WoadBlue]

According to moo fans, it's only a matter of time before the SEC gives them an invite so I guess that will take care of one problem

The SEC is too dumb to know that taking MooU will solve all its problems and make it forever the best league in very way. No matter much Wufs tell the dumb SEC types, they refuse to heed sage advice.

Aint we lucky?

I think Moo needs to spite us by pairing with ECU. I just hope they never figure that out. How would be get along with them?

 

[WoadBlue]

ND isn't going anywhere until that NBC contract is up (and if it doesn't get renewed).

At that point, no need for Navy. Navy has been in the conversation as bait to lure ND to the ACC - if ND was already joining of their own accord, no need for Navy anymore.

WVU would be a good fit, and have a rivalry with Pitt. The diddlers would bring a nice football following, and also have a rivalry with Pitt, but that's it (although a nice football following is a big "it"). Texas would be the prize though if that could somehow be worked out, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it. Agreed that Cincy and Uconn would be disasters.

The NBC contract means next to nothing. If ND is ready to make the final step, then ND will either make it with NBC being cooperative, which will be necessary for NBC to maintain any relationship with ND or any ACC schools, or else ND and the ACC will deal with it. There are several ways it can be dealt with. My guess isa that NBC would want to be to the ACC what CBS is to the SEC - that NBC would want to have rights to show 1 ACC game per week. To get ND on board fully with ESPN, ESPN would go along with that, as long as NBC were restricted from showing ND to maybe 4 games.

I think you are missing the key point about Navy. If ND is now in talks about when it will go full member in football, Navy will be part of the talk, as will divisions (assuming the NCAA stops brown nosing the Big Ten and allows an end to divisions). ND will not make the move unless ND is in a division that makes sense for ND. For example, ND has played Pitt far more than any ACC school. If ND is told it can't play Pitt annually, ND will be offended, and rightly so.

The indispensable fact is that ND has played Navy in football more than ND has played anybody. Navy is ND's most played rival. That matters, a great deal. So, you can count on ND saying that its cost to join is to have Navy as #16 and divisions that make sense for ND football.

But ND is not stupid. And ND knows that some schools are so valuable that you do not back away from them, that in fact you pursue. ND people know that if Texas and ND are ACC divisional rivals, the Irish-Longhorns game will become as big as any in the country from year one of the league rivalry. As I say above, Texas has no obviously best path. Every move Texas makes, including keeping its Big 12 ten member status quo, is risky. And I think the best long term move Texas can make is to the ACC providing it is paired with ND. Thus, I have little doubt that ND and Texas people have discussed that very thing, just as ND people and ACC-office people have discussed it.

If ND is ready to play for the ACC football championship and Texas decides to sink with the Big 12 and Navy decides to stay AAC, then I think the school most likely to get the offer is Cincy. Morgantown, WV is 70 miles from Pittsburgh. Adding WVU would be 0 help to an ACC network, and WV produces no players, in either revenue sport. The Cincinnati TV market (only the 3rd largest in OH) produces far more talent in both revenue sports than does WV. And perhaps the coup de grace - ND has 0 desire to play in Morgantown but is happy to play in Cincinnati.

 

[WoadBlue]

All that is great and wonderful, but I don't want them over PSU. The biggest problem with TX is the longhorn network. They would have to give it up to join. I don't think that happens.

ESPN owns the Longhorn Network, which has been basically a bust. In order to secure Texas fully (Fox owns half of the Big 12 TV rights), ESPN would compensate Texas for converting the LHN into part of the ACC Network.

I would love to see Penn St in the ACC, and I always have felt that way. I was writing letters to the ACC office by the mid 1980s saying that move should be made. But now, after the Big Ten added two more East Coast schools, I think there is 0 shot that PSU would ever leave the Big Ten.

Plus, the University of Texas is simply more valuable than Penn St. And that will never change.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I think you are missing the key point about Navy. If ND is now in talks about when it will go full member in football, Navy will be part of the talk, as will divisions (assuming the NCAA stops brown nosing the Big Ten and allows an end to divisions). ND will not make the move unless ND is in a division that makes sense for ND. For example, ND has played Pitt far more than any ACC school. If ND is told it can't play Pitt annually, ND will be offended, and rightly so.

The indispensable fact is that ND has played Navy in football more than ND has played anybody. Navy is ND's most played rival. That matters, a great deal. So, you can count on ND saying that its cost to join is to have Navy as #16 and divisions that make sense for ND football.

I think what you allude to with Texas is a better situation, although who knows how likely. But with regards to Navy, the ND/Navy games aren't a competitive rivalry worthy of a conference rivalry. I mean, it has had a blip of competitiveness of late, with Navy winning 4 of the last 10. But those are also the only 4 they've won since 1963. ND could get in a division with Pitt and BC - two of its longtime rivals, and schedule OOC games against Navy and USC every year, which takes care of their rivalry games without needing to add Navy.

I think re-jiggering the divisions to suit ND's desires, and bringing in a solid new member, should be enough. If Texas doesn't want to join, and we can't find anything better - then sure throw Navy a bone. I don't really see what Cincy would add.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

I think you are severely misinformed if this is your opinion.

Please inform me on why it was a good idea to let them in on a partial membership when at least 2 other major leagues said thanks but no thanks to the partial membership. As I said, they add value to the ACC, however, their have benefitted much more than the league as a whole. The ACC was an upgrade across the board in sports from where they'd be otherwise and then we let them come in as a partial member in football, allowing them to play an abbreviated schedule which helps them schedule enough decent power 5 games to stay relevant while independent, keep their NBC tv money which ACC gets zilch from, and yet in basketball for example, they got the same NCAA tourney cut as all other conference members that was divied out.

 

[gteeitup]

i don't want the league to add another

carolina should just tip toe to the sec and let the chips fall where they may.

boom

 

[tarheel0910]

i don't want the league to add another

carolina should just tip toe to the sec and let the chips fall where they may.

boom

Why? The ACC has been just as good in football over the past few years. It would be a sideways move for football and a downgrade for every other sport except baseball.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Why? The ACC has been just as good in football over the past few years. It would be a sideways move for football and a downgrade for every other sport except baseball.

It wouldn't be a sideways move for football. From a sales perspective, we would sell more football tickets because our fickle fans attend better when it's a name opponent. The home slate would be drastically improved from an optics standpoint. So from that standpoint the move would be good. Even in basketball it wouldn't be terrible. We would quickly develop rivalries with Florida and Tennessee and of course Kentucky. And duke would still schedule us, it would just move to once a year.

But such a move would destroy our (very successful) Olympic sports of field hockey, men's soccer, and men's lax

 

[tarheel0910]

It wouldn't be a sideways move for football. From a sales perspective, we would sell more football tickets because our fickle fans attend better when it's a name opponent. The home slate would be drastically improved from an optics standpoint. So from that standpoint the move would be good. Even in basketball it wouldn't be terrible. We would quickly develop rivalries with Florida and Tennessee and of course Kentucky. And duke would still schedule us, it would just move to once a year.

But such a move would destroy our (very successful) Olympic sports of field hockey, men's soccer, and men's lax

Come on man. You know @gteeitup was talking about competition, not sales. From that perspective, it would be a sideways move today. Moving to the SEC will never happen because of the Olympic sports. If the ACC went under today, we would be the newest member of the big ten tomorrow.

ETA: fans won't show up regardless until we start winning. Doesn't matter who we are playing.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Come on man. You know @gteeitup was talking about competition, not sales. From that perspective, it would be a sideways move today. Moving to the SEC will never happen because of the Olympic sports. If the ACC went under today, we would be the newest member of the big ten tomorrow.

ETA: fans won't show up regardless until we start winning. Doesn't matter who we are playing.

Right, I agree that from a competition standpoint, it's a sideways move or at most, within a 10 degree slope move up from horizontal.

But this goes back to what I've often said and is why it's taken so long for the ACC to finally get recognition for its football prowess: SEC games "look" the part and ACC games usually don't. What I mean is, though we had basically the same amount of talent and same record last season as UGA, a home game in Sanford Stadium "looks" like big time college football. 90,000 people, loud band, great atmosphere. Same with a game at Neyland last year when Tennessee would've finished no better than 3rd in either ACC division last year.

A game in Scott Stadium, whatever Miami plays in now, Wallace Wade, and usually Kenan... those don't "look" like big time college football. It's an optics thing. Same for the B1G with their huge schools and thus huge stadia. The ACC is always gonna have to fight that stigma for football because the schools are smaller and the facilities are more modest.

 

[WoadBlue]

I think what you allude to with Texas is a better situation, although who knows how likely. But with regards to Navy, the ND/Navy games aren't a competitive rivalry worthy of a conference rivalry. I mean, it has had a blip of competitiveness of late, with Navy winning 4 of the last 10. But those are also the only 4 they've won since 1963. ND could get in a division with Pitt and BC - two of its longtime rivals, and schedule OOC games against Navy and USC every year, which takes care of their rivalry games without needing to add Navy.

I think re-jiggering the divisions to suit ND's desires, and bringing in a solid new member, should be enough. If Texas doesn't want to join, and we can't find anything better - then sure throw Navy a bone. I don't really see what Cincy would add.

To ND people, the Navy game is sacred. It doesn't matter how imbalanced the series is. As long as Navy wants tio play ND, ND will play Navy. And I have no doubt that the relationship will transfer to football conference membership. If Navy wants in the ACC with ND, ND will make Navy a condition.

I think ND football is important enough that to get it, the ACC must, and will, take Navy.

But Texas is the bigger, much bigger, of the last two Big Fish likely to move (OU is the other). And if Texas is willing to join the ACC with ND, the ACC is not going to turn down Texas to take Navy.

 

[franklin street]

if navy is the price for n dame to be a full time member tell n dame to not let the doorknob hit cha.............

 

[lerario]

The NBC contract means next to nothing. If ND is ready to make the final step, then ND will either make it with NBC being cooperative, which will be necessary for NBC to maintain any relationship with ND or any ACC schools, or else ND and the ACC will deal with it. There are several ways it can be dealt with. My guess isa that NBC would want to be to the ACC what CBS is to the SEC - that NBC would want to have rights to show 1 ACC game per week. To get ND on board fully with ESPN, ESPN would go along with that, as long as NBC were restricted from showing ND to maybe 4 games.

I think you are missing the key point about Navy. If ND is now in talks about when it will go full member in football, Navy will be part of the talk, as will divisions (assuming the NCAA stops brown nosing the Big Ten and allows an end to divisions). ND will not make the move unless ND is in a division that makes sense for ND. For example, ND has played Pitt far more than any ACC school. If ND is told it can't play Pitt annually, ND will be offended, and rightly so.

The indispensable fact is that ND has played Navy in football more than ND has played anybody. Navy is ND's most played rival. That matters, a great deal. So, you can count on ND saying that its cost to join is to have Navy as #16 and divisions that make sense for ND football.

But ND is not stupid. And ND knows that some schools are so valuable that you do not back away from them, that in fact you pursue. ND people know that if Texas and ND are ACC divisional rivals, the Irish-Longhorns game will become as big as any in the country from year one of the league rivalry. As I say above, Texas has no obviously best path. Every move Texas makes, including keeping its Big 12 ten member status quo, is risky. And I think the best long term move Texas can make is to the ACC providing it is paired with ND. Thus, I have little doubt that ND and Texas people have discussed that very thing, just as ND people and ACC-office people have discussed it.

If ND is ready to play for the ACC football championship and Texas decides to sink with the Big 12 and Navy decides to stay AAC, then I think the school most likely to get the offer is Cincy. Morgantown, WV is 70 miles from Pittsburgh. Adding WVU would be 0 help to an ACC network, and WV produces no players, in either revenue sport. The Cincinnati TV market (only the 3rd largest in OH) produces far more talent in both revenue sports than does WV. And perhaps the coup de grace - ND has 0 desire to play in Morgantown but is happy to play in Cincinnati.

You make some good points here, but Cincinnati is not, never has been, and never will be an ACC caliber school and I (along with many others I suspect) would be embarrassed to have them as part of the conference.

I don't think ND would have the leverage to demand Navy be added to the conference. They could still play them and USC every year OOC, and if Pitt and BC were permanent ACC opponents that would still be a good representation of their historical schedule.

IMO if ND was willing to join full time the call order would be this:

1. Penn St
2. Texas
3. WV

Slim Pickens after this to be honest. I guess from here UConn would be next, but there's about a 0% chance that WV would opt to stay in the Big12 as opposed to joining the ACC.

Penn St would bring a huge football following and at least an above average program. They'd also at least somewhat maintain the "Atlantic Coast" moniker. They do suck in pretty much everything else besides wrestling and volley ball but football is the money maker so that would be ok.

Texas is too much of a headache. They're the bombshell that unfortunately knows she's hot shit and thinks she deserves special treatment becuase of it. Would they add a ton of value in both perception and eyeballs on TV? Absolutely. But they'd have to be willing to come in on equal footing to the other 15 schools and I'm not sure that would or even could happen.

WV I hate everything about, but they have quality programs and also fit the geographic footprint, more or less. Of all the Big East retreads, they're the most accomplished and the biggest name, plus they're natural rivals with Pitt and VT. The proximity from Morgantown to Pitt or Blacksburg isn't any different than Cincy to Louisville.

 

[tarheel0910]

You make some good points here, but Cincinnati is not, never has been, and never will be an ACC caliber school and I (along with many others I suspect) would be embarrassed to have them as part of the conference.

I don't think ND would have the leverage to demand Navy be added to the conference. They could still play them and USC every year OOC, and if Pitt and BC were permanent ACC opponents that would still be a good representation of their historical schedule.

IMO if ND was willing to join full time the call order would be this:

1. Penn St
2. Texas
3. WV

Slim Pickens after this to be honest. I guess from here UConn would be next, but there's about a 0% chance that WV would opt to stay in the Big12 as opposed to joining the ACC.

Penn St would bring a huge football following and at least an above average program. They'd also at least somewhat maintain the "Atlantic Coast" moniker. They do suck in pretty much everything else besides wrestling and volley ball but football is the money maker so that would be ok.

Texas is too much of a headache. They're the bombshell that unfortunately knows she's hot shit and thinks she deserves special treatment becuase of it. Would they add a ton of value in both perception and eyeballs on TV? Absolutely. But they'd have to be willing to come in on equal footing to the other 15 schools and I'm not sure that would or even could happen.

WV I hate everything about, but they have quality programs and also fit the geographic footprint, more or less. Of all the Big East retreads, they're the most accomplished and the biggest name, plus they're natural rivals with Pitt and VT. The proximity from Morgantown to Pitt or Blacksburg isn't any different than Cincy to Louisville.

I would love for Penn St to join, but the chances of that happening are slim to none. The most likely addition out of the three you mentioned is WVU, but I'm not sure the ACC would even give them an invite. I'm not sure that ND would require it as much as they would ask for Navy, but I think the ACC would be happy to have Navy because in their eyes they are the best fit.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I'm with @lerario that Cincy and UConn never have and never will be ACC-caliber schools. Please go google the capacity of Cincy and UConn's respective football stadiums and then tell me you want them added.

Penn State or West Virginia are the only two we should consider adding to get to 16 if ND joins. Well and Texas if logistics can be worked out. Other than that, no school would add anything of value to the conference. If we can't get one of the above three to join, then I'd rather just stay at 15 and have one unbalanced divisions.

BTW, didn't the Big 12 recently sign a GoR? As did the B1G? Would make WVU and PSU very unlikely. Wouldn't affect Texas because they have gobs of money and can reimburse the ACC for would-be revenue that won't be awarded to the ACC because of the Big 12 GoR

ETA: Yes, the Big 12 has a GoR that runs through 2025. B1G also has signed a GoR but it's unclear when that ends but is thought to be 2023

 

[tarheel0910]

I'm with @lerario that Cincy and UConn never have and never will be ACC-caliber schools. Please go google the capacity of Cincy and UConn's respective football stadiums and then tell me you want them added.

Penn State or West Virginia are the only two we should consider adding to get to 16 if ND joins. Well and Texas if logistics can be worked out. Other than that, no school would add anything of value to the conference. If we can't get one of the above three to join, then I'd rather just stay at 15 and have one unbalanced divisions.

BTW, didn't the Big 12 recently sign a GoR? As did the B1G? Would make WVU and PSU very unlikely. Wouldn't affect Texas because they have gobs of money and can reimburse the ACC for would-be revenue that won't be awarded to the ACC because of the Big 12 GoR

ETA: Yes, the Big 12 has a GoR that runs through 2025. B1G also has signed a GoR but it's unclear when that ends but is thought to be 2023

I think you guys need to get over this Texas thing. It's not going to happen. They don't fit what the ACC wants. In other words, they have few sports outside of the big three and the location. The conference is still mostly on the Atlantic coast and the only exception they would make would be for ND because they are so valuable and have the Olympic sports. We can sit here all day and argue over whether or not that makes sense, but if you pay attention to the ACC you know that's true.

 

[WoadBlue]

I'm with @lerario that Cincy and UConn never have and never will be ACC-caliber schools. Please go google the capacity of Cincy and UConn's respective football stadiums and then tell me you want them added.

Penn State or West Virginia are the only two we should consider adding to get to 16 if ND joins. Well and Texas if logistics can be worked out. Other than that, no school would add anything of value to the conference. If we can't get one of the above three to join, then I'd rather just stay at 15 and have one unbalanced divisions.

BTW, didn't the Big 12 recently sign a GoR? As did the B1G? Would make WVU and PSU very unlikely. Wouldn't affect Texas because they have gobs of money and can reimburse the ACC for would-be revenue that won't be awarded to the ACC because of the Big 12 GoR

ETA: Yes, the Big 12 has a GoR that runs through 2025. B1G also has signed a GoR but it's unclear when that ends but is thought to be 2023

Like any contract, a GOR can be broken, by buying it out. And that means that the GOR is worth much more near its start than near its end date. Not even Texas would want to buy out 10 years of a GOR, but 3 years or fewer is an entirely different matter.

That simple fact is the reason the ACC has both a GOR (now extended to 2036) and a large exit fee.

The Big 12 GOR ends in 2025. I think that if the Big 12 has not extended it by 2020, then the Big 12 is toast. If both Texas and OU are ready to jump ship then, the GOR will be bought out at rock bottom prices, because the Big 12 then would be nearly worthless.

 

[WoadBlue]

I think you guys need to get over this Texas thing. It's not going to happen. They don't fit what the ACC wants. In other words, they have few sports outside of the big three and the location. The conference is still mostly on the Atlantic coast and the only exception they would make would be for ND because they are so valuable and have the Olympic sports. We can sit here all day and argue over whether or not that makes sense, but if you pay attention to the ACC you know that's true.

That is the weird thing about Texas - its super rich athletics department sponsors fewer sports than BC.

But that is also a key reason Texas people are interested in the ACC and the Big Ten. They know that 'elite' schools always have major focus on several non-revenue sports. The University of Texas wants to be thought of as like UNC, UVA, Michigan, not as like LSU, OU, Arkansas. So, with the Big 12 now weakened forever by the SEC and Big Ten, Texas knows that its only way to have a league that cares deeply about multiple non-revenue sports is to leave the Big 12. If Texas can do that and be among more highly rated schools and in a league that has top football, basketball, and baseball, then Texas will be able to adjust.

Lacrosse is exploding across TX. 20 years ago, you might have had 2 dozen high schools in the entire state that played lacrosse. There now are probably 300, and TX lacrosse players get recruited by top programs every year. That growth is expected to continue. UT will want a lacrosse team in a top lacrosse league within a decade.

 

[bobby121567]

My guess would be they would join for football after the NBC contract is up. If they join, the conference would benefit just as much as them. That was the whole point. If they want to have a chance to win a championship they are going to have to join a conference that has a championship game. They know that, which is why I think they will make the jump at some point.

I think the ACC would let them keep there contract if they wanted to join.

 

[bobby121567]

I already think their was a gentlemans handshake with ND. I think ND would get to choose who they wanted as the last member. And it would be a rivalry. So I think when ND joins full time. Navy is coming with them.

 

[tarheel0910]

I think the ACC would let them keep there contract if they wanted to join.

That's possible. if they do that, I would think the ACC would subtract that amount from their share of the ACC money. Equal revenue sharing is a big deal for the conference, so I can't imagine them giving ND an equal share in addition to the NBC contract.

 

[WoadBlue]

That's possible. if they do that, I would think the ACC would subtract that amount from their share of the ACC money. Equal revenue sharing is a big deal for the conference, so I can't imagine them giving ND an equal share in addition to the NBC contract.

Think in terms of the SEC deal with CBS for 1 game each Saturday. I think the ACC would want to have NBC make that deal. Even if we allowed NBC to show the same 7 ND games per year it now does, 4 of those games each year would be ND against other ACC teams, plus there would be another 6 weeks of ACC games without ND. The only major complication with that would be that the division without ND would feel slighted, unless the rule were that all 6 of those weeks must be teams from outside ND's division.

Such things can be worked out to everyone's acceptance. There are insurmountable issues only when people get greedy and want it all, including to crush those with whom they negotiate.