UNC Sports Identity

[AncientTarheel]

This afternoon, I talked with a friend who is a retired professor (not at UNC) and a football and basketball fan. I asked how some schools such as Standford, Wisconsin, and others have good to better football teams without hurting their academic reputations when no one thinks their football players are normal students.

Her answer was simple: the football team does not embarrass the university. The team can be great year after year and its not a problem if the academics are not hindered and the academic reputation is not damaged. Somehow, that's a problem for a lot of schools.

Schools in the south have a special problem. There is still the assumption that high schools and therefore universities in the south are not as rigorous. That's unfair, I think, but my friend assures me the perception is true. Therefore, when faculty look at something else that might hurt their reputation, they are skeptical. Especially after recent history at UNC.

But it may be enough for the faculty if we can hire a coach who can win without embarrassing them.
That should be possible.

My friend mentioned Dean Smith as the ideal coach from a faculty point of view, looking across all sports. Again, she's not a UNC person.

 

[WoadBlue]

I agree that many people hold those assumptions. But I don't think that's the main source for the UNC history of a type of neglect of football. I think it is Ivy League envy. The 8 Ivy League schools ended all athletic scholarships almost 100% because of football issues. UNC has always had faculty and administrators who would prefer to follow that pattern, but for football only. So the next best thing is a kind of benign neglect of football: you allow coaches to fail to win over several years, and you also do nothing or do too little too late (see Mack) to keep the truly good coaches.

 

[strummingram]

I agree that many people hold those assumptions. But I don't think that's the main source for the UNC history of a type of neglect of football. I think it is Ivy League envy. The 8 Ivy League schools ended all athletic scholarships almost 100% because of football issues. UNC has always had faculty and administrators who would prefer to follow that pattern, but for football only. So the next best thing is a kind of benign neglect of football: you allow coaches to fail to win over several years, and you also do nothing or do too little too late (see Mack) to keep the truly good coaches.

Maybe you should have started pulling for a different school/team about 20-30 years ago.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Standford is one heck of a school

 

[tarheel0910]

Standford is one heck of a school

And there's not a single faculty member who doesn't love college football.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Something no one will read

https://www.businessinsider.com/stanford-list-of-easy-classes-for-athletes-2011-3

 

[TarHeelMark]

Standford is one heck of a school

Stanford is too...

 

[ticket2ride04]

Stanford is too...

Yeah, but the OP didn’t mention Stanford.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Yeah, but the OP didn’t mention Stanford.

You are correct. I didn’t catch that on first glance.

 

[TVJ]

The 8 Ivy League schools ended all athletic scholarships almost 100% because of football issues.

Actually, I'm told by people on the scene that, while they may not call them "athletic scholarships," the Ivy League schools do aggressively recruit athletes and financial assistance is given to those who meet the entrance requirements.

 

[AncientTarheel]

I agree that many people hold those assumptions. But I don't think that's the main source for the UNC history of a type of neglect of football. I think it is Ivy League envy. The 8 Ivy League schools ended all athletic scholarships almost 100% because of football issues. UNC has always had faculty and administrators who would prefer to follow that pattern, but for football only. So the next best thing is a kind of benign neglect of football: you allow coaches to fail to win over several years, and you also do nothing or do too little too late (see Mack) to keep the truly good coaches.

Entirely possible. Carolina was called the Harvard of the South when I was there (mostly by us, I think, but still...) I keep hoping not, though, because its hard to see a way out of that conundrum.

 

[tarheel0910]

Something no one will read

https://www.businessinsider.com/stanford-list-of-easy-classes-for-athletes-2011-3

That's what happens when all of the faculty loves college sports and the fact that they take donations and attention away from academics. Not sure why all the upset faculty only works at UNC. Must be something about the school colors.

 

[midline]

Not so sure that UNC can point to more stringent academics as a reason why the football team isn't successful as we would like. Saw a graduation rate listing for the ACC in the Charlotte rag last week. UNC was in the bottom two, or three. But let's all be real honest with each other. All of the talk about academics, and the true student-athlete, is mostly a sham. It all sounds great, and may be true for your minor sports. But football and basketball are big business. A vast majority of the players couldn't even dream of being accepted to the university they represent as a normal student on their high school academic merits. And most of them couldn't hope to compete academically without the hand holding of enless tutors, advisors, etc., that athletic departments supply for them to keep them eligible so that cash cow keeps turning and they can also sell a few more jerseys with their number on it. College athletically is great, and I love it. But let's remember exactly what it really is.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Not so sure that UNC can point to more stringent academics as a reason why the football team isn't successful as we would like. Saw a graduation rate listing for the ACC in the Charlotte rag last week. UNC was in the bottom two, or three. But let's all be real honest with each other. All of the talk about academics, and the true student-athlete, is mostly a sham. It all sounds great, and may be true for your minor sports. But football and basketball are big business. A vast majority of the players couldn't even dream of being accepted to the university they represent as a normal student on their high school academic merits. And most of them couldn't hope to compete academically without the hand holding of enless tutors, advisors, etc., that athletic departments supply for them to keep them eligible so that cash cow keeps turning and they can also sell a few more jerseys with their number on it. College athletically is great, and I love it. But let's remember exactly what it really is.

That list was in reference to players who started between 2008-2012 I believe. Since that time, UNC has buckled down on who they accept. Obviously, exceptions will be made for elite talent, but all the coaches have been tasked with getting kids who can not only clear admissions, but remain eligible. We don’t have the AFAM classes to lean on anymore and like it or not, it was a big help.

Look at the types of schools our football players are coming from over the last couple of years. There’s a reason we aren’t recruiting former hotbeds. We are getting guys from Charlotte, Raleigh, Northern Virginia, etc. The next coach will have to overcome some of the same hurdles until the AFAM scrutiny dies down.

 

[AncientTarheel]

Not so sure that UNC can point to more stringent academics as a reason why the football team isn't successful as we would like. Saw a graduation rate listing for the ACC in the Charlotte rag last week. UNC was in the bottom two, or three. But let's all be real honest with each other. All of the talk about academics, and the true student-athlete, is mostly a sham. It all sounds great, and may be true for your minor sports. But football and basketball are big business. A vast majority of the players couldn't even dream of being accepted to the university they represent as a normal student on their high school academic merits. And most of them couldn't hope to compete academically without the hand holding of enless tutors, advisors, etc., that athletic departments supply for them to keep them eligible so that cash cow keeps turning and they can also sell a few more jerseys with their number on it. College athletically is great, and I love it. But let's remember exactly what it really is.

I agree and I think that's the heart of the problem at UNC. No one can compete consistently at the top levels nationally and maybe not even in the cn conference if they don't turn a blind eye to academics. The University community will only accept so much of this, so we wind up endlessly unhappy, with some people pining for a great coach, academics be damned, and some hoping the the latest coach will win a championship before leaving for greener pastures or being run off. That's why I think we have to first come to terms with who we are as a university which also plays sports, and then seek the best coach we can find who is comfortable with that role.

 

[JimmyinVA]

anti-football professors as a cause of unc's mediocrity in that sport is overblown conspiracy theory. our program stinks because our coach stinks. hiring fedora was somewhat risky due to his lack of coaching experience in a major conference, but it was not a let's kill football hire. larry fedora was a sought after up-and-comer. he looked like a successful hire at first -- in fact, after a couple good seasons, many posters on this board were scared that he would be lured away by a football powerhouse! the fact that fedora turned out to be a very untalented coach is basically bad luck.