Which Starting Lineup...?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I suspect most of us expect this to be the starting lineup, at least early on

Caleb Love
Kerwin Walton
Leaky Black
Brady Manek
Armando Bacot

Some have said they'd rather not have Leaky start. I'm not in that group, but I'm open to different lineups. So my question is, what lineup(s) might be better?

After a good summer some of the relationships might change. If both Caleb and RJ improve a good bit and are working together pretty well, I could see Caleb shifting to SG (on the theory that RJ is too short for SG, and that Caleb could focus more on his shot selection). So how does that ripple through the staring lineup? Do you sit Kerwin - our only reliable outside shooter last season? I don't think so. But what are the alternatives?

RJ
Caleb
Kerwin
Brady
Armando

And then there's this possibility

Caleb
Kerwin
Justin McKoy
Brady
Armando

What other starting lineups do you think might work? And which of them appeal to you most?

 

[NCAAUCoach]

I would prefer...

Love
Walton
Johnson
Manek
Bacot

 

[gauchoheel]

I think Love/Walton/Manek/Bacot are near locks. I think it's a toss-up between Leaky/Davis/Harris for the last spot, unless I'm underestimating McKoy's ability to play the wing.

I see McKoy as more of a 4. 3s in today's game are often really quick. For Baylor, Jared Butler was their 3 (Mitchell and Flagler/Teague at 1 and 2). For Gonzaga it was Kispert or Joel Ayayi. Dook runs out guys like RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish at 3. Is McKoy staying in front of guys like that? 3s should also be really good shooters on offense these days, which McKoy hasn't fully proven. Walton is undersized for the spot, but he could play there with Davis at the 2 for some killer offense if Love/Davis can be better shooters.

 

[Tarheelsman71]

So with all the talk about differences in styles and philosophies....I would like them to try something. Let Leaky JUST be a PG. Let Love, Kerwin, Manek, and Bacot be the other 4. Let him sink or swim at the position that he wants to play. Similar to seventh. When or if he fails then pull him and have Mckoy come in at the 4 adn manek move to the 3. I bet Love wants to be SG. Kerwin is a 2/3. Let them try it...BUT if it is a disaster then sit his butt down and add him to the blue team. I would play puff over leaky at the 3 every day of the week. but Manek deserves that shot right now to pass or fail at that position.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I suspect most of us expect this to be the starting lineup, at least early on

Caleb Love
Kerwin Walton
Leaky Black
Brady Manek
Armando Bacot

Some have said they'd rather not have Leaky start. I'm not in that group, but I'm open to different lineups. So my question is, what lineup(s) might be better?

After a good summer some of the relationships might change. If both Caleb and RJ improve a good bit and are working together pretty well, I could see Caleb shifting to SG (on the theory that RJ is too short for SG, and that Caleb could focus more on his shot selection). So how does that ripple through the staring lineup? Do you sit Kerwin - our only reliable outside shooter last season? I don't think so. But what are the alternatives?

RJ
Caleb
Kerwin
Brady
Armando

And then there's this possibility

Caleb
Kerwin
Justin McKoy
Brady
Armando

What other starting lineups do you think might work? And which of them appeal to you most?

#1 or #3. I just don't think you can have Davis and Walton on the floor for long stretches together because they are both weak defenders. I don't know about Puff, but chances are he's a poor defender too. I think McCoy is a decent defender but I think he's too slow to guard 3s on the perimeter.

So I settle with the following as the starting line up:

Love
Walton
Leaky
Manek
Mando

Second team (as of right now but good lord we need another big)
Davis
Ant
Puff
Styles
McCoy

But in reality, McCoy will play most of his minutes at the 4. Styles will play some 3 and some 4. Puff might be able to play some stretch 4 but I don't even know what to think of him yet. We didn't see anything at all from him last season.

 

[unchampions]

Lot's of flexible pieces at 2 - 4. I think the key is going to be at the 1 and 5. At center Bacot is going to get all the minutes he can handle. If we don't sign someone else will be interesting to see how HD makes things work. At the 1 can we get solid distribution without too many TOs?

I think this team could be really exciting to watch. Please let 3 pt shooting improve over the summer!!!!!

 

[ChiShankCity]

Love
Walton
Anyone on campus who can make an open standstill 3
Manek
Bacot

 

[Travis2262]

Love
Walton
Anyone on campus who can make an open standstill 3
Manek
Bacot

This is the answer

 

[gunslingerdick]

Love
Walton
Anyone on campus who can make an open standstill 3
Manek
Bacot

I get the sentiment but c’mon. Not only is the Leaky hate played out but the legend of his sucktitude grows by the day. Like a fisherman, whose greatest catch gets bigger with each story told, Leaky’s poor play seems to get progressively worse every time it’s spoken of, without him having touched a ball in 6 weeks now.

 

[tarheel0910]

Kind of hard to predict without knowing what kind of offense Hubert will run.

 

[imajericho]

Davis, Love, Walton, Manek, Bacot.

 

[unchampions]

Assuming we can get a few guys back with the extra covid year I'd go with a small ball lineup.

KJ, AP, Caleb, Davis, Lebo

 

[TarHeelFanJ]

Assuming we can get a few guys back with the extra covid year I'd go with a small ball lineup.

KJ, AP, Caleb, Davis, Lebo

Put down the weed son

 

[TPFKAPFS]

In that lineup RJ is a 4 that NEEDS to be stretched!

Leaky WILL start and the team will be better for it!

 

[unchampions]

Actually. Do we know what KJ is doing next year? Probably not an impact on the lineup, but I always enjoy when he gets in the game.

 

[CJBlue]

#1 or #3. I just don't think you can have Davis and Walton on the floor for long stretches together because they are both weak defenders. I don't know about Puff, but chances are he's a poor defender too. I think McCoy is a decent defender but I think he's too slow to guard 3s on the perimeter.

So I settle with the following as the starting line up:

Love
Walton
Leaky
Manek
Mando

Second team (as of right now but good lord we need another big)
Davis
Ant
Puff
Styles
McCoy

But in reality, McCoy will play most of his minutes at the 4. Styles will play some 3 and some 4. Puff might be able to play some stretch 4 but I don't even know what to think of him yet. We didn't see anything at all from him last season.

I hope Dunn shows everyone something and busts in the rotation.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I hope Dunn shows everyone something and busts in the rotation.

Me too. I didn’t forget about him. I think he’ll be a very good player for us at some point. But we’re just so crowded in the backcourt.

 

[dadika13]

Me too. I didn’t forget about him. I think he’ll be a very good player for us at some point. But we’re just so crowded in the backcourt.

I'm really high on Dunn. I think he'll emerge as our backup to Kerwin over Ant after 10 or so games.

He's a bulldog that can also shoot the lights out. He's built like a strong safety but has a real feel/touch to his game that is weird to see with someone who looks like a football player.

 

[Travis2262]

I'm starting to become convinced that Leaky has some family members on this board or something.

I don't think people here are necessarily trying to hate on Leaky but the facts are the facts. He has not improved in the 3 years he has been at UNC.

This may not copy correctly but here goes:

Season Averages

SEASON	TEAM
2018-19	UNC
2019-20	UNC
2020-21	UNC

GP	GS	MIN	FG	FG%	3PT	3P%	FT	FT%	OR	DR	REB	AST	BLK	STL	PF	TO	PTS
23	0	10.3	1.0-2.1	46.9	0.2-0.5	41.7	0.3-0.3	85.7	0.4	1.7	2.1	1.2	0.2	0.6	1.2	0.7	2.5
32	31	29.7	2.5-7.0	35.9	0.5-2.0	25.4	1.0-1.4	69.6	1.4	3.6	5.0	2.6	0.8	1.3	2.2	1.8	6.5
29	27	27.6	2.0-5.4	36.7	0.3-1.6	22.2	1.2-1.8	69.2	1.3	3.6	4.9	2.4	0.3	1.2	1.9	1.3	5.6

For me, the issue has been the minutes he gets. In no universe should he be getting almost 30 minutes a game. If UNC doesn't have someone on the roster that can start over Leaky or at the very least take a LOT of his minutes then Carolina is in trouble at the 3 position.

I mean no offense to Leaky but unless he somehow makes a huge improvement over the summer I just do not think he should be a starter for UNC getting near 30 minutes a game. He should be coming off the bench and averaging around 10 minutes.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

AND he didn't have a proper off season in ANY of these years! AND the team had a mountain of problems to overcome which hampered improvement, chemistry, and confidence in ALL players! Sooo...anybody paying attention can see that this off-season will be closer to normal and might be the one where he makes his jump. It also will be a completely new world with him focusing on only 2 positions for the first time in his career; a new coach for the first time; a returning PG; a new offensive system; HEALTH!

If our TEAM improves along normal lines, nobody except possibly Bacot should approach 30 minutes per game!

BTW: One can simply put forth a preferred lineup AND never have to trash a Family member....but that seems to be difficult for some! IE: one could say they love Puff and NEVER have to say they hate Leaky!

 

[Jake1985]

Love, Walton, Manek for sure. They will ad a lo of scoring and the capability to knocking down shots. Bacot, if he returns, will be a definite as well. The 5th guy is interesting... Leaky adds experience,

 

[Archer2]

BTW: One can simply put forth a preferred lineup AND never have to trash a Family member....but that seems to be difficult for some! IE: one could say they love Puff and NEVER have to say they hate Leaky!

Enough of the “people hating on, or trashing Leaky”, he’s been widely lauded as a good guy/teammate/representative of the university.

But it is fair to point out his deficiencies as well. Now Platek was criticized too harshly at times last year, IMO. But it went far beyond what we’re seeing with Leaky.

Fact is, as shown above, his stats have not shown much improvement. They have actually trended downward. I know stats don’t tell the entire story as far as a player’s value to his team, but they are a good indication. His lingering injuries have played a factor, and missing the summer workouts certainly didn’t help. But most players deal with injury issues and they all had to deal with the WuFlu.

We’re all hoping Leaky has a great senior season. But it’s not “hating/trashing” Leaky to say he needs to play better or be in jeopardy of losing minutes. According to Gary, the staff has already had that very conversation with Leaky. I’d be surprised if they hadn’t, all starting positions/minutes should constantly be open to competition, every year.

 

[Travis2262]

We’re all hoping Leaky has a great senior season. But it’s not “hating/trashing” Leaky to say he needs to play better or be in jeopardy of losing minutes. According to Gary, the staff has already had that very conversation with Leaky. I’d be surprised if they hadn’t, all starting positions/minutes should constantly be open to competition, every year.

100% agree with this. I don't think I have seen anyone hating on Leaky, just pointing out that he must play better than what he has shown the past 3 years in order to deserve the near 30 minutes a game he was getting last year. That in no way shape or form is "hating"

I for one hope he has a great season, it would be great for him and of course the team as a whole.

 

[DSouthr]

100% agree with this. I don't think I have seen anyone hating on Leaky, just pointing out that he must play better than what he has shown the past 3 years in order to deserve the near 30 minutes a game he was getting last year. That in no way shape or form is "hating"

I for one hope he has a great season, it would be great for him and of course the team as a whole.

I am not hating on Leaky at all but at the same time, hard to ignore the kid has almost 30mins a game and he is a offensive liability if he can not hit wide open jumpers. Theo for example, was not a guy I wanted to see taking a lot of jumpers BUT Theo excelled in other aspects, in other offensive aspects that more than made up for his not being a solid jump shooter. That is the problem with leaky, he does not excel in other areas that could off set the deficiency in shooting. If he were a supreme passer, if he were a really good ball handler for a guy his length, I could consider but neither were the case.

Funny, the guy with the ball in his hands does not need to be a great shooter and the defense has no choice but to have to stay with the guy with the ball. But a guy off the ball that can not shoot and isn't a big man that stays in the paint, you become a liability, you allow the defense to play 5 on 4 and that is a problem. Especially when at your position are 2-3 guys that not only can score but are not afraid to try. Between the 1,2, and 3 spots, you MUST have at least 2 solid scorers and if your 3 guy gives you little to nothing as a scorer, then your 1 and 2 MUST be consistent scorers, Walton is but Love or RJ were not as a freshman.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

If Leaky is so bad, what does that say about all the other players on the team who weren't good enough to earn Leaky's minutes or his starter status?

 

[Travis2262]

If Leaky is so bad, what does that say about all the other players on the team who weren't good enough to earn Leaky's minutes or his starter status?

Three things come to mind:

1. Roy was beyond loyal to upperclassmen.

2. Puff was hurt

3. Ant was coming off another acl injury.

 

[heels05champs]

I would prefer...

Love
Walton
Johnson
Manek
Bacot

This.

 

[King Coach]

Leaky just don’t have it in him to be a scorer.....any level of decent scorer. Look back at his high school and AAU days....he wasn’t a scorer even then...he just don’t have that mentality in him. I would invest playing time in Puff. You really don’t lose that much in defense. Puff could be a decent defender.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Three things come to mind:

1. Roy was beyond loyal to upperclassmen.

2. Puff was hurt

3. Ant was coming off another acl injury.

All true, but . . .

Ant is 6'4 and when you look past his energy - a very positive thing, to be sure - you saw a guy who needed a full year under his belt to give anyone a challenge.

Meanwhile Puff wasn't even as close as Ant even before the injury.

I have fairly high expectations for both of those guys . . . some day. But neither of them was a threat to Leaky's minutes last season.

Would they challenge Leaky next season?

If Ant gets good enough, he might slide into the SG slot, and Kerwin might move to SF. But I doubt that happens. Mainly becuse Kerwin is already in his correct position. I don't think it helps the team or Kerwin to move him out of his correct position.

As for Puff, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see him making his mark until he's a junior.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Saying a player needs improvement isn't trashing. Saying someone will challenge him for PT is cool. Saying you prefer another player is also cool. But peeps have to have the minuscule amount of discernment to he able to tell what constitutes "hate"! If you can't I don't know what to tell you! If you really believe nobody has "hated on" Leaky than I give up!

But: I understand every single criticism except the foolish cracks about attitude or disinterest. I just also believe he has never had a real chance to fix his issues and I see him having it for the first time!

If you really think Roy watched his team in practice and studied film constantly and STILL played a player who was detrimental to the team over a player who could help; well that's simply idiotic!

 

[Archer2]

But peeps have to have the minuscule amount of discernment to he able to tell what constitutes "hate"! If you can't I don't know what to tell you! If you really believe nobody has "hated on" Leaky than I give up!

Telling people that you possess that “minuscule amount of discernment” to enable you to determine “hate”, but they don’t just because they happen to disagree with your opinion, is an insult to those people‘s intelligence.

We just disagree. That’s all. It’s getting to the point where people can’t even do that civilly anymore.

 

[CarolinaBlue5]

If you really think Roy watched his team in practice and studied film constantly and STILL played a player who was detrimental to the team over a player who could help; well that's simply idiotic!

Roy played Brooks over Sharpe and Kessler last year (especially at the end) that’s all I need to say to this comment! I hope Leaky gets a lot better and is good enough to play 25-30 min a game next year! I don’t see it...I’ve never hated on Leaky but I stand by thinking that Leaky was disinterested at times last year...especially when times were bad..same with Brooks! We can’t have the Leaky on the court that we saw last year for 30 min and succeed! Again, I hope he improves but if not he needs to be a rotational player play 10 to 12 minutes a game!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Saying a player needs improvement isn't trashing. Saying someone will challenge him for PT is cool. Saying you prefer another player is also cool. But peeps have to have the minuscule amount of discernment to he able to tell what constitutes "hate"! If you can't I don't know what to tell you! If you really believe nobody has "hated on" Leaky than I give up!

But: I understand every single criticism except the foolish cracks about attitude or disinterest. I just also believe he has never had a real chance to fix his issues and I see him having it for the first time!

If you really think Roy watched his team in practice and studied film constantly and STILL played a player who was detrimental to the team over a player who could help; well that's simply idiotic!

Exactly.

 

[HeelzLover]

AND he didn't have a proper off season in ANY of these years! AND the team had a mountain of problems to overcome which hampered improvement, chemistry, and confidence in ALL players!

Then how do you explain how Armando got so much better dealing with these same issues. He wasn't hurt last year that I remember so unless I'm wrong that's not an excuse.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Then how do you explain how Armando got so much better dealing with these same issues. He wasn't hurt last year that I remember so unless I'm wrong that's not an excuse.

No one is claiming that Leaky has Armando's upside.

Sure, some people are able to shrug off these injuries and impediments. But that doesn't mean they aren't legit reasons for another player to develop slowly.

 

[gunslingerdick]

All true, but . . .

Ant is 6'4 and when you look past his energy - a very positive thing, to be sure - you saw a guy who needed a full year under his belt to give anyone a challenge.

Meanwhile Puff wasn't even as close as Ant even before the injury.

I have fairly high expectations for both of those guys . . . some day. But neither of them was a threat to Leaky's minutes last season.

Would they challenge Leaky next season?

If Ant gets good enough, he might slide into the SG slot, and Kerwin might move to SF. But I doubt that happens. Mainly becuse Kerwin is already in his correct position. I don't think it helps the team or Kerwin to move him out of his correct position.

As for Puff, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see him making his mark until he's a junior.

Bingo.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

On the contrary, I believe everyone on here can tell the difference between hate and criticism, it looks like some just don't care! Civility is absolutely necessary in any society, especially in one that claims to be a Family! This is the larger problem that frustrates me. If a person really loves the Heels and feels like they are family, I feel that person could take the extra second it takes to phrase things in a way that is not disrespectful to our team or coaches. This has nothing to do with oversensitivity or PC crap. I find it frustrating that peeps take everything to an extreme. For example, if I say "hate is inappropriate"; the answer is, "you attack those who disagree with you!" I love debate and would be bored in a place where all believed the same, but we can disagree without denigrating our Family! I also believe my intelligence cannot be insulted by someone who doesn't know me unless I let them and I hope everyone else feels the same! I apologize if I overstated/misstated my point and insulted peeps!

Love, Walton, Black, Manek, Bacot = best team we can put on the floor day 1!

After they get some games/practices under their belts, who knows who will step up or who will fall back! The good news is the team is shaping up to have some awesome potential combos!

 

[Bubspub88]

Love, Walton, Black, Manek, Bacot = best team we can put on the floor day 1!

Day 1 I agree. If that is the best team in January it will be a long season (unless there is SUBSTANTIAL improvement, especially from the 3 in the backcourt). Next year will have as much uncertainty beginning the season as any I can recall. So many guys showed flashes but who will step up and show consistency? How will the Heels look year 1 under Hubert? Will transfers be ready for ACC level of play?

 

[gunslingerdick]

I guess I understand the skepticism but I find it hard to believe we will not see a major improvement from Love next year. And a major improvement in Love cures many (most?) of our issues.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Day 1 I agree. If that is the best team in January it will be a long season (unless there is SUBSTANTIAL improvement, especially from the 3 in the backcourt). Next year will have as much uncertainty beginning the season as any I can recall. So many guys showed flashes but who will step up and show consistency? How will the Heels look year 1 under Hubert? Will transfers be ready for ACC level of play?

The highlighted portion is what I really believe will be the difference for our team. I fully expect Hubs to put the best lineups he can out there, but to ride the horse that brung you at the beginning! Except for Manek, we know the others have the experience and chemistry to play well together. If anybody steps up and TAKES a starting spot this could improve the entire team! It will mean motivation for the player supplanted and an experienced player to sub in when needed.