I love berry and I'm really excited about how theo has played so far and what he brings this team. Id have to say at this time Berry comes off the bench w Marcus Paige returning. Thoughts?
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Who goes to the bench?
- Thread starter Jameishaveshistaint
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Theo brings too many things to this team including a shut down defender and a toughness quite frankly this team really needs. I love berry but I think Roy will keep theo in the starting lineup
Theo will continue to play well coming off the bench, but Berry is the only pure point guard on the team and Roy knows the team was held back last year without him running the show. He's not making that mistake again... at least not 6 games into the season. Paige will have his best season ever because of Berry. Pinson will still be really important for this team, as will Britt and Hicks, but off the bench.
Tough call, but Pinson should come off the bench and still get his minutes. The Heels are not going to win the title with Paige on the sidelines with an injury and the more he is forced to handle the ball the increased chance of him re-injuring the hand. Have to be smart here. Plus, Berry can push the ball up the court and facilitate very well. Theo will still get his minutes taking away from Britt and others.
I'm shocked that this is really a question for anyone. I would honestly be pretty disappointed in Roy if after 6 games, where both Pinson and Berry played equally well at worst, he were to completely blow up his plan for this season because Pinson has showed good energy through the first few games. Remember, roy wanted to start Berry last year before his injury. Arguably, Roy pushed JP out of the lineup and off the team to make room to start Berry. Up to Paige's injury, the plan was to have Berry run the show so Paige could benefit playing off the ball. To blow that up now after a solid start to the season (despite a tough but justifiable loss) would be such an amateur overreaction.
With that said, having to move either of these guys to the bench is a good problem to have. I just don't think this is even a question for Roy.
With that said, having to move either of these guys to the bench is a good problem to have. I just don't think this is even a question for Roy.
I wouldn't want to be the person to make that decision.. So if you bring Theo off the bench.. who does he come in for? Paige at the 2? Or would Roy move Paige to the 1 and put Theo at the 2 for parts of the game? It's so many lineups Roy has at his disposal in the backcourt but like most said... Theo will definitely get his minutes starting or off the bench. I watched Theo last night and he just does things that nobody else on the team is doing. That block > rebound > outlet pass > score... man that's classic Carolina basketball. That gave me flashbacks of Jackie Manuel. When Theo isn't on the court there are things that need to be done that don't. Can't wait to see Paige at the 1 and Theo at the 2. That will be fun to watch.
Still waiting for the three words "Shut down defender" to become fact. Lots of love for Theo out there defensively and I too see the potential....I just have not seen the deed yet. I do agree Theo brings a great deal of toughness that this team largely needs. That being said...I have been saying since beginning of last year that I would start Berry and Paige together.
This. It doesn't matter who starts the game, it matters who FINISHES the game.
theo has the quickness and the reach, but usually a lock down defender is a very strong guy who doesn't get pushed around. we'll see...
I think it makes the most sense to start Berry at point. This probably means Theo Pinson gets sent to the bench. Maybe this next comment is blasphemy, but I could even make a case (I think) of going small and fast sometimes and starting Pinson over Kennedy Meeks. Again, based on the size / lineup of the opponent. It seems you get a lot more activity, hustle, and fast break potential from Theo vs. KM.
I hope whatever happens, Theo and Berry handle it well from an ego and psychological standpoint. I think they will. Roy & others should remind them of how lotto pick freshman Marvin Williams didn't start; and how at a school like Kentucky, they are sometimes 2-3 deep in non-starters who are NBA first rounders.
My point is if guys are worried about starting or subbing as a reflection of whether they can eventually play in the NBA - all that matters to scouts, etc is what you look like and what you can do to help your team in the minutes you get, on the court, regardless of whether they come as a starter or as a sub.
I hope whatever happens, Theo and Berry handle it well from an ego and psychological standpoint. I think they will. Roy & others should remind them of how lotto pick freshman Marvin Williams didn't start; and how at a school like Kentucky, they are sometimes 2-3 deep in non-starters who are NBA first rounders.
My point is if guys are worried about starting or subbing as a reflection of whether they can eventually play in the NBA - all that matters to scouts, etc is what you look like and what you can do to help your team in the minutes you get, on the court, regardless of whether they come as a starter or as a sub.
Berry is the only true PG on the team. His development might be the most important single factor in making a title run possible.
Bingo.
Anything else would be a self-inflicted wound and diminish our chances of reaching the promised land... and yes it most certainly does matter who starts. This is a PG driven system and JB is our best PG. We are, and have been since he arrived, a better team in all phases when he is in the game. Period.
Berry/Paige was going to be the starting backcourt going into the season and it would be monumentally absurd to change that. People need to also remember that we have a total of exactly two 3-men on this team. Having to play them together so much has hurt our rotation already.
I said after last season that as much as I love and support Roy, if he didn't learn a lesson from last season I'll have to believe he has finally taken leave of his senses.
Well, the +/- number heavily favor Pinson playing and playing at the 2. So the best lineup would probably be Paige, Pinson, Jackson, Brice, and Meeks. I would like to see this with Berry and Hicks logging serious minutes off the bench in more of a seven man rotation. Then Britt and Maye next for a few. Then James and Williams if they need them. This is obviously more for when conference play starts. For now, the minutes need to be spread out for a number of reasons.
I understand the thought that goes into Berry playing the point and I agree there are some good reasons for this as well. It wouldn't bother me at all. In that scenario you obviously just have Pinson logging heavy minutes off the bench. I think those that think it is the only way to go are kind of downplaying the obvious and fairly proven benefits Theo brings.
I understand the thought that goes into Berry playing the point and I agree there are some good reasons for this as well. It wouldn't bother me at all. In that scenario you obviously just have Pinson logging heavy minutes off the bench. I think those that think it is the only way to go are kind of downplaying the obvious and fairly proven benefits Theo brings.
Gary.. when do you think Roy will cut down the back court rotation and who do you feel will be left out?
Theo's +/- is much as it is because he has played almost all his minutes with Berry. PG is the mission-critical position. Theo has done a credible job filling in, but an eye-test will tell you he's not a natural 2, neither offensively nor defensively. Marcus is our best 2.
It's not as cut/dry as many here make it seem. This is why Roy makes the big bucks.
After last season I'm not gonna predict, but I'll tell you what I think Roy should (and hopefully will) do.
Ideally JB and Marcus should be our starting and go-to backcourt, and once Marcus gets his game-legs, ideally should both average around 30 min/game.
Theo and Hicks should get by far the most minutes off the bench, Theo's mostly coming at the 3 behind JJ and the rest in his utility-man role (some 2, some 4 in small lineups).
Nate should eventually settle in at 10-12 min/game, ideally mostly at the 2 with a few at the 1.
Ideally, we'll see it start playing out Tuesday and settling in as Marcus logs more time.
But again, after last season..... we shall see...
I'm not going to be disappointed either way, but I will be upset if Paige takes on such a heavy load in his first game back and hurts in hand again. Even if Roy's eventual plan is to start Paige at the 1 (which I don't think is his plan), it makes no sense to give him primary point guard duties right out of the gate against the #2 team in the country.
Perhaps Roy will bring Paige off the bench in his first game back, perhaps coming in for Pinson at the 17-minute mark. Then starts Paige in the next game with Pinson off the bench.
Perhaps Roy will bring Paige off the bench in his first game back, perhaps coming in for Pinson at the 17-minute mark. Then starts Paige in the next game with Pinson off the bench.
Steat, that very well could happen. And yeah, folks who haven't played the position may not realize how much pounding your hands take just from normal PG activities as compared to playing off the ball.. So erring on the side of caution may be wise. I'm sure the doctors' verdict and how practice (and post-practice) goes will say a lot for Tuesday.
Pinson is the "Spark" you need coming off the bench. He and Isaiah provide a lot of energy with that 2nd Unit. Roy could now theoretically go with a 1st and 2nd Unit:
1: Joel, Marcus, Justin, Brice, Kennedy
2: Nate, Kenny, Theo, Isaiah, Joel
I would still like to see Kenny get some more minutes in this early part of the season. I think we'll need him at some point. Luke is another energy guy that can help in spots. He's a way more talented version of Simmons. Give this team time. They still haven't practiced as a FULL squad that many times. Remember, Theo was limited in practice the first week or so, then Marcus went down.
Last night would a good step in developing some toughness, both physically and mentally. There's still room for improvement, but they are getting there. The biggest thing is effort and focus for the full 40 minutes.
1: Joel, Marcus, Justin, Brice, Kennedy
2: Nate, Kenny, Theo, Isaiah, Joel
I would still like to see Kenny get some more minutes in this early part of the season. I think we'll need him at some point. Luke is another energy guy that can help in spots. He's a way more talented version of Simmons. Give this team time. They still haven't practiced as a FULL squad that many times. Remember, Theo was limited in practice the first week or so, then Marcus went down.
Last night would a good step in developing some toughness, both physically and mentally. There's still room for improvement, but they are getting there. The biggest thing is effort and focus for the full 40 minutes.
Spot on, Coach. Getting minutes for KW and LM during the pre-ACC games (at least after MD) is big for depth.
We also need to remember that Williams has been forced to play some 3 because of depth issues there. Having Theo back in the energy role makes the rotation way more solid and continuous.
That's pretty disrespectful to Theo's game. Both guys help the +/- numbers of the other. It works both ways. He struggles defending at the 2 for sure but he is a better playmaker than either of our PGs right now. That doesn't mean he could run the offense as well (he isn't a PG) but strictly as a playmaker he is the best on the team at this point. Theo has done a better than credible job filling in and this +/- numbers at the 2 versus the 3 (+78 vs +22) aren't really up for debate. If we move Theo to the 3 we are putting him where many of us thought he would be more successful when that has up to this point proven not to be the case. Marcus is without a doubt our best two but there is no reason to think Theo wouldn't be better for the team at the two with Marcus than at the 3. The same guys would be around him except you would be switching Marcus for Berry. I hope this at least is considered, even if it isn't the way Roy goes. It may not even be the way I would go if I really got down to it but I would have to consider it. I agree we need to see a lot of Berry and Marcus together but it isn't as much of a slam dunk as some think. I get that you really like Berry. I do too. Theo has been pretty big for this team in a lot of ways though.
He has been big but let's be real: our zone offense is predicated on wing entries that only happen with proper PG play. Look at his numbers with Britt competed to those with Berry. Night and Day. That's not a diss on Theo at all unless you want to see it that way.
I love Theo as a player, but him playing pretty much full-time 2 is putting a fish out of water. His best role is as a 3, and for this particular team, our versatile energy guy who can give you minutes at two other positions. That versatility instantly improves our rotation once Marcus goes back to starting.
I think Pinson is better suited to coming off the bench as a "spark" than Berry is. So I think Berry should start at the 1 and Paige at the 2. Pinson could then come in to give JJ, Marcus, and Berry breathers (MP to point when Berry is out obviously).
It could (and should) depend on matchups as well. If we're going against a big team, Pinson at the 2 and Berry off the bench could be helpful just from a size perspective. I also like the idea of Pinson starting over Meeks if we're facing a small team, or just wanna run a small lineup. Two guards (JB and MP) two wings (TP and JJ) and a big (Brice). Also wouldn't mind seeing Hicks starting beside Brice occasionally, as he's been showing up well, sometimes moreso than Kennedy.
Marcus coming back should cut Nate's minutes most of all - which can only be a good thing.
It could (and should) depend on matchups as well. If we're going against a big team, Pinson at the 2 and Berry off the bench could be helpful just from a size perspective. I also like the idea of Pinson starting over Meeks if we're facing a small team, or just wanna run a small lineup. Two guards (JB and MP) two wings (TP and JJ) and a big (Brice). Also wouldn't mind seeing Hicks starting beside Brice occasionally, as he's been showing up well, sometimes moreso than Kennedy.
Marcus coming back should cut Nate's minutes most of all - which can only be a good thing.
Bringing Hicks and Pinson off the bench with the first substitutions will be bad news for a lot of the Heels opponents. I would love to see Luke Maye get the bulk of Joel James minutes. Kenny Williams has shot nothing but bricks so far. Once he hits his first shot he will be much better in the future.
Yeah, I just haven't seen anyone on this team do a great job with post entry passes. I mean, they can throw the basics but nothing where I would prefer one guy over another. I think Theo's numbers with Britt are more of a reflection on Britt, which wouldn't be as big of an issue if we had Berry eating the back up minutes (which would still be a lot of minutes as he would play with Paige plenty as well) and cutting Nate back some. That is a testament to Berry as well though (the minutes with Berry vs with Britt). As I said, I'm a big Berry fan. I think his potential is quite high.
The only thing I really disagree with is his play at the 2, which has been considerably better than while at the three. There are some variables there, but his play itself is also one of those variables. I think completely taking away what the numbers show has worked is one thing people have been critical of Roy for and yet many want him to do just that. My fear with him not starting is that we will see big minutes of Britt and Pinson at the 1 and 2, which won't work nearly as well IMO. Maybe not though. Roy can certainly not take out Paige and Berry both, which will still give Theo work with one of them at the point. Anyway, I have no doubt a starting lineup of Berry, Paige, Jackson, Brice, and Meeks will be excellent. If that is the way it goes I'll look forward to seeing it. Thanks for the back and forth regardless. Should be fun to see how we look with Marcus back.
who is to say that someone goes to the bench right away... What if they play it safe with Marcus a little more and bring him off the bench for December to keep him fresh and to get his game legs back? Not aying what i would do but i think it is an option
In certain stretches, Justin and theo have scored and rebounded better than Meeks and Brice. If those goons don't man up and give us activity when they are on the court, I'd about rather see berry, Paige, theo, Justin and the better of Johnson/Meeks.
