Why Does This Team Consistently Come Out Flat

[dtodd4475]

I just have a hard time believing that we don't have money for NIL, I could be wrong but does any of us really know?

If I was the coach at UNC and I was stinking it up missing on top recruits you better believe i would be playing the I don't got money for NIL to get players card.

Excuses Excuses Excuses.

Maybe I'm wrong, but something has to give.

If money is being held back because Hubert is the coach then, he must go because he is the problem. Life isn't fair but this is why you hire through a coaching search and not let the old coach dictate who you need to.hire.

We are in this can he coach or not mode, who really knows but the debate in the end isn't going to be can he coach or not but can he win.

I think some of our old school mentality guys were just stubborn on paying premium money for college kids. They were offended by it, and thought the money offered should be plenty. They ate some humble pie, and are going to fully invest now with football and basketball at the going price for elite talent.

Belichek made it a non negotiable that the NIL will invest at the necessary levels to compete at the top level. UNC has not done that for football or basketball to this point. The powers that be agreed, and put it in writing that they will spend. Hopefully that is a sign they are willing to fully participate and not just dip a toe in for basketball as well, not just clutch their pearls when kids who would have loved to come pass on UNC for better monetary offers.

 

[superstar57]

Just a thought, but does anyone else feel the athletic department needs to do more to market the Carolina brand? Carolina blue is definitely recognized, but it doesn't ring out the same as it did even 10 years ago.

I say this to say, kids can make money off of UNC's respected name, but lately the school doesn't have that "cool" feeling as it did years ago.

 

[dtodd4475]

Just a thought, but does anyone else feel the athletic department needs to do more to market the Carolina brand? Carolina blue is definitely recognized, but it doesn't ring out the same as it did even 10 years ago.

I say this to say, kids can make money off of UNC's respected name, but lately the school doesn't have that "cool" feeling as it did years ago.

Been a long time since we had a next level star that translated. The NBA superstar type "from North Carolina" that get the kids eyes. Success at the highest level from the school that preped them.

 

[notashelbyfan]

You know this cpuld be a bit of old stuff but our trend down started when Coby White left after his first year. Roy never expected him to be a one and done and that really upset Roy's apple cart and way of progressing players with his somewhat 3 year plain.

Its funny how a move made by a freshman can effect team 6 and 7 years down the road.

That's not saying anything bad about Coby but he was so good Roy had to play him and he got paid by the league.

 

[superstar57]

Been a long time since we had a next level star that translated. The NBA superstar type "from North Carolina" that get the kids eyes. Success at the highest level from the school that preped them.

We had a big chance to jump ahead on this new age of recruitment when we were coming off a championship appearance. Caleb Love had a chance to make us attractive to recruits, when we looked awful that following year, it hurt in my opinion. Love's style of play was what kids wanted, but we all know he looked terrible the next year.

 

[DSouthr]

Notice I’ve never disagreed with your coaching points lol. I know you watched the last game. Our best lineup for two of the most productive periods of time didn’t include EC. He can get it done but has not as of late. Can’t have turnovers. I’d take a RJ half court shot in the first 5 seconds of every possession before watching EC turn it over. The bad with that situation is we have no bigs to rebound rjs or everyone else’s misses. We need everyone with their A game to compete imo. Too many holes to fill down low. If EC cleans up the tos and he and RJ hit their fts, thought that would never be a selling point, we cruise to a few wins that were losses. Coach needs some piss and vinegar, among other things.

I think this boils down to simple things as to why we are having so much problem vs good teams:

1) Despite the hype and window dressing, we simply are NOT a solid jump shooting team. Chime in if you know of a team that uses small ball as their primary starting look with 3 guards and 2 of the 3 are hesitant jump shooters? Where the same team does not have great jump shooting coming from the 4 or 5 AND that is dramatically under sized in the front court?

2) Remind me the last time you have seen ALL 5 starters under sized for their position. A team that began this season with a tiny back court but had decent match up size at the 4 and 5, lost some games and to correct that went even tiny in the front court?

3) Our staff knew what our early schedule was going to be early this off season, knew we were going to be facing a string of really big teams (in terms of size) that were also top 10 teams? Yet died not bring in front court help that could bang with the opposing big men? How long has this staff known that we would be playing duke twice this season at least with duke being the longest team in the country?

4) If you are a team not able to consistently create easy scoring ops and is severely under sized, you better defend from the opening tip hair on fire and run run running, like we don't...

Given all this team lacks I think they have played well with what they have, they just begin games in a hole...

 

[DSouthr]

I think Cadeau is the problem and we start out flat because Cadeau is in the starting lineup.

I don't mean the main problem. The main problem is obviously the front court, but I mean, for the flat starts in comparison to the rest of games.

I don't have stats to back up what I say here, but I believe a lot of our flat starts are mired with Cadeau turnovers or bad passes.

I do think Cadeau has improved going to the rim, but a lot of slow and lazy passes are happening too which either ruin the offensive momentum due to lacking the speed to keep the defense swinging, are deflected, or end up turnovers.

He can pass well. He however is inconsistent with it. He can be an all american, but it might be another year or two before he gets to the level imo.

Cadeau is only a problem because we do not have another consistent knock down jump shooter other than RJ. Because we don't RJ is hawked every where he goes and our non-jump shooters are easy to double off of to force RJ in to hard looks. WE are trying to drive the paint with very clogged lanes against multiple longer defenders playing drop on us, can't clear the lane for open lanes.

 

[alabamaheel]

I think this boils down to simple things as to why we are having so much problem vs good teams:

1) Despite the hype and window dressing, we simply are NOT a solid jump shooting team. Chime in if you know of a team that uses small ball as their primary starting look with 3 guards and 2 of the 3 are hesitant jump shooters? Where the same team does not have great jump shooting coming from the 4 or 5 AND that is dramatically under sized in the front court?

2) Remind me the last time you have seen ALL 5 starters under sized for their position. A team that began this season with a tiny back court but had decent match up size at the 4 and 5, lost some games and to correct that went even tiny in the front court?

3) Our staff knew what our early schedule was going to be early this off season, knew we were going to be facing a string of really big teams (in terms of size) that were also top 10 teams? Yet died not bring in front court help that could bang with the opposing big men? How long has this staff known that we would be playing duke twice this season at least with duke being the longest team in the country?

4) If you are a team not able to consistently create easy scoring ops and is severely under sized, you better defend from the opening tip hair on fire and run run running, like we don't...

Given all this team lacks I think they have played well with what they have, they just begin games in a hole...

I agree it’s a culmination of several things. Our caliber of best guys is not what we’re used to, therefore our bench is definitely not great. We do have some good players. I honestly think certain guys don’t mesh well together. Even with great coaching that’s hard to overcome. It is what it is.

 

[RP12]

Cadeau is only a problem because we do not have another consistent knock down jump shooter other than RJ. Because we don't RJ is hawked every where he goes and our non-jump shooters are easy to double off of to force RJ in to hard looks. WE are trying to drive the paint with very clogged lanes against multiple longer defenders playing drop on us, can't clear the lane for open lanes.

Or good finishing bigs with good hands. Or a good offensive plan with good cuts and motion. When plays are there to be made EC makes a high percentage of them including some that only he sees. Playing without a PG used to be well known to be a disaster but seems like half the folks on the board want it now. We don’t start our most dynamic offensive player as it is.

 

[al would]

We are in this can he coach or not mode, who really knows but the debate in the end isn't going to be can he coach or not but can he win.

100% spot on because that is the name of the game.

 

[DSouthr]

I agree it’s a culmination of several things. Our caliber of best guys is not what we’re used to, therefore our bench is definitely not great. We do have some good players. I honestly think certain guys don’t mesh well together. Even with great coaching that’s hard to overcome. It is what it is.

From what I see, I can't agree it is the caliber of players we have (NOT speaking about length). When I consider the players we have, I ask of our top 10/11 guys that gets minutes, who among them do I question as having ACC level talent, maybe I should say ACC as it is supposed to be level talent because current ACC talent across the league is way down. When I ask that, I do question Tyson's real upside and I do question Claude. James Brown has the talent, it just isn't ready yet.

What does hurt us is the mix of talent we have, I mean if we could right now today trade Tyson and Lubin for Oyensea, and the bama center that visited us, I would pull the trigger quick. I actually do feel Lubin was a fine addition, it just didn't fill our need.

What is almost comical is how we have 2 players that actually LOOK, as they get off the bus, to fit positions that they each have started in. RJ looks the part of a PG but he is a shooting guard in a PGs body. Jalen, 6'11" with serious reach, like he should be a center is much more a stretch 4 than JWitt or Lubin. RJ is in the position he should be in, Jalen isn't, just not strong enough to hold position or defend big strong centers yet when have you seen him in as a 4 this season, you saw that VERY RARELY last season. As I have shared about Jalen, he has serious balance issues, how often have you see Jalen miss a close in shot and grab his own rebound and put it back up? You don't, after that first shot he is falling to the ground.



W

 

[al would]

RJ looks the part of a PG but he is a shooting guard

Physically only. Not when he has the ball .. jmo

 

[Green C14]

If they fire HD do you think we could get Pat Riley or Phil Jackson?

 

[r_u_worthy]

From what I see, I can't agree it is the caliber of players we have (NOT speaking about length). When I consider the players we have, I ask of our top 10/11 guys that gets minutes, who among them do I question as having ACC level talent, maybe I should say ACC as it is supposed to be level talent because current ACC talent across the league is way down. When I ask that, I do question Tyson's real upside and I do question Claude. James Brown has the talent, it just isn't ready yet.

What does hurt us is the mix of talent we have, I mean if we could right now today trade Tyson and Lubin for Oyensea, and the bama center that visited us, I would pull the trigger quick. I actually do feel Lubin was a fine addition, it just didn't fill our need.

What is almost comical is how we have 2 players that actually LOOK, as they get off the bus, to fit positions that they each have started in. RJ looks the part of a PG but he is a shooting guard in a PGs body. Jalen, 6'11" with serious reach, like he should be a center is much more a stretch 4 than JWitt or Lubin. RJ is in the position he should be in, Jalen isn't, just not strong enough to hold position or defend big strong centers yet when have you seen him in as a 4 this season, you saw that VERY RARELY last season. As I have shared about Jalen, he has serious balance issues, how often have you see Jalen miss a close in shot and grab his own rebound and put it back up? You don't, after that first shot he is falling to the ground.



W

That’s a really good slant on the roster. There is talent it’s just out of position by necessity unfortunately for the team. But I think it’s still incumbent on the staff to maximize the strengths and minimize the weaknesses. I’m not sure we have seen that iteration yet. At least I hope not!

 

[alabamaheel]

From what I see, I can't agree it is the caliber of players we have (NOT speaking about length). When I consider the players we have, I ask of our top 10/11 guys that gets minutes, who among them do I question as having ACC level talent, maybe I should say ACC as it is supposed to be level talent because current ACC talent across the league is way down. When I ask that, I do question Tyson's real upside and I do question Claude. James Brown has the talent, it just isn't ready yet.

What does hurt us is the mix of talent we have, I mean if we could right now today trade Tyson and Lubin for Oyensea, and the bama center that visited us, I would pull the trigger quick. I actually do feel Lubin was a fine addition, it just didn't fill our need.

What is almost comical is how we have 2 players that actually LOOK, as they get off the bus, to fit positions that they each have started in. RJ looks the part of a PG but he is a shooting guard in a PGs body. Jalen, 6'11" with serious reach, like he should be a center is much more a stretch 4 than JWitt or Lubin. RJ is in the position he should be in, Jalen isn't, just not strong enough to hold position or defend big strong centers yet when have you seen him in as a 4 this season, you saw that VERY RARELY last season. As I have shared about Jalen, he has serious balance issues, how often have you see Jalen miss a close in shot and grab his own rebound and put it back up? You don't, after that first shot he is falling to the ground.



W

I used to not care how many kids we put in the NBA, until I realized it was a help for us in recruiting. I’ve also realized it’s also a great gauge on the talent you do or do not have. We do not. I’ve also realized there’s been several guys at UNC that’s not NBA material but are needed for a great college team. We do have those guys. The Berrys, Paige’s, Maneks, and the list goes on. The fact that the AA games used to be riddled with UNC guys and are now all but MIA has to be noticeable to you and everyone else. As much as I or anyone else may not like AAU or the NBA, it matters and we need it to be successful. Our talent level for winning championships is not there. 💯 But I wish that was our only concern. ie coaching as a whole.

 

[DSouthr]

Physically only. Not when he has the ball .. jmo

Yeah, that is what I mean when I say he looks like a PG getting off the bus.

 

[DSouthr]

That’s a really good slant on the roster. There is talent it’s just out of position by necessity unfortunately for the team. But I think it’s still incumbent on the staff to maximize the strengths and minimize the weaknesses. I’m not sure we have seen that iteration yet. At least I hope not!

Every coach knows, when the season starts you play with the guys you got, to late to add anyone at that point and we are well past that point now. With that fact in hand it is absolutely required that the coach adjust the approach the team has to take based on the players strengths and weaknesses that he has, not what kind of players he may want. Hubert didn't ask me, doubt he asked anyone on this board before he made the decisions to come in to this season with the players we now have. Now in his 4th season as head coach, if he does not have the type of players he wants then someone needs to ask why? The ONLY player on our roster that was asked to play for UNC by anyone other than Hubert is RJ, everyone else is there by Hubert's invitation.

 

[slothrop8]

Neither Cadeau nor Davis have been remotely good enough yet. This team can still be good, despite the front court limitations, but those two must play better. Both are capable of much better, hopefully it starts today. Gotta have this win and need those two to have a way better second half of the season. May as well start at MSG!

 

[alabamaheel]

Yeah, that is what I mean when I say he looks like a PG getting off the bus.

How dare he have a 2.4 assist to turnover ratio. lol narrative, but at least we have our “pg1” for years to come.

 

[DSouthr]

How dare he have a 2.4 assist to turnover ratio. lol narrative, but at least we have our “pg1” for years to come.

LOL, touch'e, LOL, I am happy our starting 2 guard has a 2.4% assist to TO ratio. What is RJ averaging in rebounds, I would guess around 4-5, maybe that doesn't make him a power forward either? LOL

 

[al would]

Once again we came out flat ... yet a miracle occurred. Cap's a baller ..

 

[alabamaheel]

Once again we came out flat ... yet a miracle occurred. Cap's a baller ..

I’ve been on the road all day traveling to watch a basketball Christmas tournament. Haven’t gotten to watch it, but looks like he showed out.

 

[randman1]

I know there's been a lot of focus on who starts at the 4 and 5... Reality is the 1-3 have been the same for the entire season and for the entire season UNC has gotten off to slow starts. I tend to think those 3 (Cadeau, RJ, and Seth) simply aren't the best combination on the floor. Cadeau and RJ are very ball dominant guards and while Seth can score without offense being designed for him, he's certainly at his best with the ball in his hands attacking the paint.

So some water and oil mixing in the backcourt perhaps? You combine that with Cadeau and Seth aren't willing shooters (Cadeau is 1/15 from 3 over the last 4, Seth is 3/12 from 3 over his last 5) and RJ hasn't shot the ball well this season.

But not a whole lot you can do with the backcourt. You can't not start Cadeau because he's the only PG on the team. You're not going to bench RJ for Jackson. And Seth is is a 2-way wing on a team that doesn't defend particularly well. If everything were truly up in the air, I would explore Jackson starting at the 2 to get some more size there. Also, Ian's a late shot clock option like RJ is. But that's probably not a realistic option for this team.

Long winded "way of saying this is an entire team issue. The bigs and the coach will get the most criticism. They're the easiest targets.

But if Cadeau is generational, he needs to be a tone setter on both ends of the floor. If RJ is an All American, he needs to simply play like one. And if Seth isn't immune from completely disappearing for large stretches of the game too.

This backcourt can be one of the best in the country. But to have that reputation, you need to perform on the floor.

" You can't not start Cadeau because he's the only PG on the team."

Yes, you can. Cadeau's passing isn't all that great at present and he turns the ball over. RJ, Ian and Seth, pg by committee. It's doable. If Cadeau steps up coming off the bench, keep him in the game longer but there's the defense side of things as well.

Let Powell play the 3 more coming in for Seth or one of the other guards and Seth moves over, and let Cade get more time there as well.

 

[heels05champs]

Ian has been maybe our best player over the past 5 games. I’d like to see Trimble come off the bench to start the game and start Ian at the three. That’ll give more size and more scoring punch at the first of the game.

 

[DSouthr]

I saw a VERY interesting take on this very question from a poster on 4 corners, I want to share that taker here.

So it is well known that we are a really easy team to prepare for, we are very predictable, yo9u can scpout us in about 30mins. So the other teams prep up already knowing how to attack us just needs to work on how to attack our weakness. There is a widely held feeling that we do not do a good job of breaking down the other team and frankly it seems we are just head stuck in to playing the same way, refusing to alter our approach. Hubert may be harkening back to Dean, Dean not very little if any prep for a specific opponent. His thoughts were they know what we are going to do, it doesn't matter what they do, we simply need to execute what we do to the best of our ability. Simply put we do NOT execute real well today, we do at times but not for 40mins.

WE see a LOT of little player movement from all 5 guys on the offensive end, noticeable in our first halves, what game prep for the opponents we may do does not appear to be effective, it isn't about changing line ups,k it is a lack of game prep from breaking down film and figuring out attacks specific for that next opponent. We spend the first half learning what they do and then we alter, tweek, or pivot as Hubert likes to say but being down double digits at half time is a constant hole for us to have to dig out of.

IN addition, want you guys to notice this from here out, watch us in half court offense and see if you can spot what happens every time we begin our come backs from half time holes, yesterday being just 1 examaple. When he get in to that funk that all the sudden leads to our being down 15-20, it features our 3 guards out front tossing the ball around the horn, all getting a few dribbles in that waste around 10-15 seconds of the shot clock, and then a big man goes and sets a high screen, and all the sudden we drive or take a hard jump shot. The ball NEVER goes in to the post and back out, there is zero attack, zero getting in to any offense til that shot clock has ticked to far down. Forget about secondary breaks or going directly in to half cpourt attack after a primary break is stopped.

But when we come back, all the sudden ALL 5 guys are moving on offense rather than at least 3 standing around doing little for 15seconds? PLAYER movement, cutting thru lanes, screening very early shot clock, and all the sudden we get makable shots AND we show pressure off make shots on the inbounds, we attack on both ends to dig out of those holes. This tiny team is really good when they attack, they are not real good when they take the blows.

 

[al would]

When he get in to that funk that all the sudden leads to our being down 15-20, it features our 3 guards out front tossing the ball around the horn, all getting a few dribbles in that waste around 10-15 seconds of the shot clock, and then a big man goes and sets a high screen, and all the sudden we drive or take a hard jump shot. The ball NEVER goes in to the post and back out, there is zero attack, zero getting in to any offense til that shot clock has ticked to far down. Forget about secondary breaks or going directly in to half cpourt attack after a primary break is stopped.

And this very thing may be why EC is not more productive. When there is very little interior movement there are fewer opportunities to get assist off the easy baskets. And you don't get assist on those 3pt misses we have been very consistent with this season. It still makes me wonder why our only true pg is 3rd in mpg. I guess listless and stagnant offensive schemes don't really need one.

 

[RP12]

" You can't not start Cadeau because he's the only PG on the team."

Yes, you can. Cadeau's passing isn't all that great at present and he turns the ball over. RJ, Ian and Seth, pg by committee. It's doable. If Cadeau steps up coming off the bench, keep him in the game longer but there's the defense side of things as well.

Let Powell play the 3 more coming in for Seth or one of the other guards and Seth moves over, and let Cade get more time there as well.

All you need to see is yesterday’s game to see how wrong this is. They literally do not run an offense when RJ is “playing the point”. RJ is looking to get his own shot all the time and should be because that’s what he is, a severely undersized and not very athletic SG. He’s at his best off the ball and so is the team. Considering he has been at best inefficient and at worst stone cold there is zero reason for him to be playing more minutes than anyone else on the team, EC in particular. There were possessions without EC on the floor in the first half yesterday that they struggle to get the ball TO the three point line much less to attack inside it. For this team to be better RJ needs to be exclusively off the ball and more determined to only take quality shots. Hubert will never bring him off the bench but a 6th man microwave role would be perfect for him with this group while allowing starting a more typical sized group.

 

[randman1]

All you need to see is yesterday’s game to see how wrong this is. They literally do not run an offense when RJ is “playing the point”. RJ is looking to get his own shot all the time and should be because that’s what he is, a severely undersized and not very athletic SG. He’s at his best off the ball and so is the team. Considering he has been at best inefficient and at worst stone cold there is zero reason for him to be playing more minutes than anyone else on the team, EC in particular. There were possessions without EC on the floor in the first half yesterday that they struggle to get the ball TO the three point line much less to attack inside it. For this team to be better RJ needs to be exclusively off the ball and more determined to only take quality shots. Hubert will never bring him off the bench but a 6th man microwave role would be perfect for him with this group while allowing starting a more typical sized group

All you need to see is yesterday’s game to see how wrong this is. They literally do not run an offense when RJ is “playing the point”. RJ is looking to get his own shot all the time and should be because that’s what he is, a severely undersized and not very athletic SG. He’s at his best off the ball and so is the team. Considering he has been at best inefficient and at worst stone cold there is zero reason for him to be playing more minutes than anyone else on the team, EC in particular. There were possessions without EC on the floor in the first half yesterday that they struggle to get the ball TO the three point line much less to attack inside it. For this team to be better RJ needs to be exclusively off the ball and more determined to only take quality shots. Hubert will never bring him off the bench but a 6th man microwave role would be perfect for him with this group while allowing starting a more typical sized group.

We did very well, our best line-up for stretches, with RJ and Trimble at the 1 and 2 last season, RJ basically running the point, but frankly with 3 guards starting, you don't need to play with the idea of a traditional pg.

Cadeau is an inconsistent passer, ball handler and poor outside shooter. He looked better early on as a consistent passer. Looked good. Isn't consistent on that. Turns the ball over and can't shoot the 3.

With a dominant big man to feed the ball too and taller team for defense, he'd thrive better but for this team, his best attribute is actually a scorer except he hasn't gotten the 3 pt shot down.

Next season, hopefully he makes the jump and has a cast of players on the court where his skills fit better.

 

[al would]

All you need to see is yesterday’s game to see how wrong this is. They literally do not run an offense when RJ is “playing the point”. RJ is looking to get his own shot all the time and should be because that’s what he is, a severely undersized and not very athletic SG. He’s at his best off the ball and so is the team.

We are on the same page RP .. and although poking the sacred ram (rj) may go against the grain I think this group would be better served with a lot less RJ minutes and a lot more athletic Seth, EC and Jack minutes. The lack of offense starting inside out may have something to do with personnel but flashing players to the lane to initiate offense has always been a UNC staple. At the end of the day RJ is still a high volume/high minute ball handler and shooter that is blistering the team with a 25% 3pt stat. Think about how many points that represents game over game compared with his high 30% 3pt clip last season. But tbh I still think this group is stinking it up because of coaching.

 

[al would]

Excuses Excuses Excuses.

Seems there are more "no answers to Heels problems" than excuse which is actually more disconcerting. Sign of the changing time maybe?

 

[alabamaheel]

And this very thing may be why EC is not more productive. When there is very little interior movement there are fewer opportunities to get assist off the easy baskets. And you don't get assist on those 3pt misses we have been very consistent with this season. It still makes me wonder why our only true pg is 3rd in mpg. I guess listless and stagnant offensive schemes don't really need one.

When you turn the dang ball over you don’t need more opportunities to do so. Pretty easy math.

 

[alabamaheel]

We are on the same page RP .. and although poking the sacred ram (rj) may go against the grain I think this group would be better served with a lot less RJ minutes and a lot more athletic Seth, EC and Jack minutes. The lack of offense starting inside out may have something to do with personnel but flashing players to the lane to initiate offense has always been a UNC staple. At the end of the day RJ is still a high volume/high minute ball handler and shooter that is blistering the team with a 25% 3pt stat. Think about how many points that represents game over game compared with his high 30% 3pt clip last season. But tbh I still think this group is stinking it up because of coaching.

You’re still missing the boat on which heel is untouchable. You know, the generational guy? RJ should definitely play less if he stays at 25 but it’s coming up and that’s literally your only leg to hobble on. EC can’t shoot it either, he has way too many tos and doesn’t even rebound as well for the “bigger player” he is. Speaking of points, we’d have won half of our close games had we gotten a shot off instead of an EC turnover. By all means keep beating that dead horse.