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will Seventh Woods be another JP Tokoto

IDUNK4HEELS

IDUNK4HEELS

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Lot of similarities--They both are very athletic, can jump out of the gym and are tremendous defensively and they both have the same problem--that neither one of them are very accurate shooting jumpers. Hopefully Seventh can shoot from the line because Tokoto his first couple,of years was about as consistent as Andre Jordan now is with the Clippers. Woods might also turn out to be like Pinson giving the team instant energy off the bench but Pinson is not the best outside shooter as of yet either. You must admit the similarities are indeed there but the question still remains will Woods turn into Tokoto top ten dunk of the night player or a teammate who can ultimately also kept opponents honest with a outside J.
 
IDUNK4HEELS said:
Lot of similarities--They both are very athletic, can jump out of the gym and are tremendous defensively and they both have the same problem--that neither one of them are very accurate shooting jumpers. Hopefully Seventh can shoot from the line because Tokoto his first couple,of years was about as consistent as Andre Jordan now is with the Clippers. Woods might also turn out to be like Pinson giving the team instant energy off the bench but Pinson is not the best outside shooter as of yet either. You must admit the similarities are indeed there but the question still remains will Woods turn into Tokoto top ten dunk of the night player or a teammate who can ultimately also kept opponents honest with a outside J.
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All I know is that I've heard he is already working especially hard on the consistency of his stroke and he seems to be embracing the alum support system. That in itself says a lot for him.
 
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I have not seen much video on Seventh but his stroke looks pretty good to me and he was hitting in the videos i watched. As a senior his mechanics already look much better than JP who had a ugly stroke to the point he was ugly even shooting free throws.
 
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Is it too much to hope 7th brings all the athleticism of JP with better handles and outside shot?
I liked JP but I think the kid might be a step up.
 
Ozheelfan said:
Is it too much to hope 7th brings all the athleticism of JP with better handles and outside shot?
I liked JP but I think the kid might be a step up.
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Well, they're two different players --- JP has a good 5 inches on 7th --- albeit with (as OP points out) some similarities.

If y'all remember, that epic HS All-star Slam Dunk showdown between JP and Shaq Johnson was absolutely sick --- as impressive or more so than any NBA contest. JP, quite literally, has Vince Carter hops. In fact, the current players will tell ya, JP pulled off dunks in practice warm-ups that would win a lotta contests.

Personally I was so excited at the prospect, but then later disappointed with JP's Carolina career. The issues came with his attitude. JP was a prototype college 3 who convinced himself he had to be a Guard. The ironic thing is, the 2 and 3 are to some degree interchangeable -- at least in the continuity portions --- in the Carolina system, with ample ops to face up. Vince probably played more 3 than 2 here after all. In other words, JP could've embraced his role as a 3 and still gotten enough perimeter exposure to impress NBA scouts with his versatility.

So what about 7th? He is a natural 2 in a PG's body. But his freaky athleticism means he can easily be a very effective college 2. As we've discussed, during his recruitment someone in his inner circle convinced him he needed to be a 1. That cost him spots in the rankings (meh, who cares?) but almost cost us his services. I'm glad he decided to come here. If 7th embraces his best role as a combo guard, works on his shot while being able to learn some PG skills to boot, he can fit right in AND prepare himself for a different potential role in the NBA.

Roy showed this past season that two smallish Guards who can both shoot and pass can make one helluva backcourt in our system. With the right attitude 7th can carve out a dynamic role here at both positions over time. He seems to be coming in with a good attitude. If that continues I think we'll have a good one.
 
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For me, other than their both being extremely athletic I don't see 7th and VC as anything nearly similar.

gary mentioned attitude with JP and that was a concern because you see kids at times come in as freshmen and they are raw but have strong athletism and they work to develop the skill of the game so that raw athletism can team with skill to form a heck of a player. GREAT example of just this was Brice, off the charts athlete for 6'9" kid but that kid worked his butt off to get better, I think maybe more so than most realized. But we saw the improvement in his play with each season he played for us, it was as if his play never really level off.

But sometimes a kid will come in that inside of him feels he is already better than what he really is and for what ever reason does not give a full 100% to developed that raw talent in to refined skill. And in that we see as well, we see that in a kid that just kinda doesn't show us improved play year to year. JP IMO was just this type of player, not the head case a larry Drew was but IMO a weak link that for what ever reason could not admit that he was and didn't feel the urgency to 100% dedicate to the coaching he was availed of.

My point, 7th is extremely athletic but this kid is a gym rat. He got by on athletism up until now, it has been mentioned that he played in a private school league where he could get away with that. But this IMO rightfully realized that his future if he gets to the NBA will be to be a PG and dedicated himself to turning his focus on developing the skills he wil need for that position. And as gary says, as has been said by many that saw him working on that transition in summer play a year ago, that was not instant grits. It is going to take him some time because as a PG he wil have to develop skills that are vital to PGs, where as a 2 or 3 he could rely more on athletism to get by.

Now none of us know how this will go, gary doesn't believe this kid will ever be more than a (as a PG) Dexter or larry Drew (without the attitude, just speaking to his on court play) or nate Britt and I personally understand why he believes that because to be a UNC level PG I admit, the kid has a long way to go. But I am looking more at the heart and dedication in the kid more than I am looking at his play right now and I think it can happen. I am not expecting it in his freshman season but I do expect him to get some PG time and it would not shock me at all to see 7th as Joel's primary back up by late season and it would not shock me at all for that not to happen either. But with the ticker that kid has in his chest and with an attitude that coaches will love, this kid will very quickly endear himself to Roy because all 7th cares about is winning, his team winning.

This is not a kid whose only thought is of getting to the NBA as quickly as he can, this is a kid whose only thoughts are to improve his game, to be the best individual player he can be so that he can give his team its best chance of being the best they can be. WONDERFUL attitude and if there is one thing I have come to learn watching this stuff for some 40+ years now is a kid like that breaks the mold, they are easy to under estimate, they surprise ya with how much they improve and you should not be surprised by it.
 
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DSouthr said:
Now none of us know how this will go, gary doesn't believe this kid will ever be more than a (as a PG) Dexter or larry Drew (without the attitude, just speaking to his on court play) or nate Britt and I personally understand why he believes that because to be a UNC level PG I admit, the kid has a long way to go. But I am looking more at the heart and dedication in the kid more than I am looking at his play right now and I think it can happen. I am not expecting it in his freshman season but I do expect him to get some PG time and it would not shock me at all to see 7th as Joel's primary back up by late season and it would not shock me at all for that not to happen either. But with the ticker that kid has in his chest and with an attitude that coaches will love, this kid will very quickly endear himself to Roy because all 7th cares about is winning, his team winning.
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Just one correction, Dave. I don't lump Drew in with Strickland in any way. LD was actually a natural PG, and pretty darned good at it when he wanted to be, or at least where he was a better fit (UCLA) for the system --- in other words his issues at UNC were more that he wouldn't as opposed to couldn't. Dex by contrast, was more Combo than Point, but had a great attitude and athleticism --- and thus he, not Drew, is my comparison stick for 7th.

Ideally of course, 7th won't have to go thru a debilitating knee injury, but Dex could do a credible job at Point by his Sr year, and may have gotten to that level quicker without the setback. Using Strickland as reference is no insult. He's playing pro ball in Canada as we speak, and doing quite well (see below). When Dex came to UNC he could absolutely fly (and play defense) and that athleticism had taken him to HS All-American status. His needs for improvement were of course his perimeter shot, his handle and the nuances of being a floor general. 7th comes in with those same assets and deficits. The good news is that his shot is already at a higher level, and his natural scoring ability ain't going away. He seems to be putting in the work, so who knows what that ceiling will be, or where he'll end up playing his most minutes.

I already feel good about 7th being a helluva college Combo. Anything else is gravy.

Speaking of Dex:
 
I lumped Drew in there as a player because I felt Drew had a lot to learn as a PG and clearly more to learn than he seemed to be able to admit but had the ability. Just me but I just have never really saw 7th in the same way I saw Dex, I really think 7th has a good bit more upside, again, just opinion. For me personally the name that sticks is Rodney Purvis.

One difference with Dexter is 7th I think is a better outside shooter from beyond the arch than Dex, 7th is streaky but the reasons for that I think can be worked on. Dexter just didn't have range with accuracy out to the trey. I do wonder had Dex not got hurt, how much more he would have developed. Truth is BRob may be a better shooter than either of them! LOL
 
DSouthr said:
I lumped Drew in there as a player because I felt Drew had a lot to learn as a PG and clearly more to learn than he seemed to be able to admit but had the ability. Just me but I just have never really saw 7th in the same way I saw Dex, I really think 7th has a good bit more upside, again, just opinion. For me personally the name that sticks is Rodney Purvis.

One difference with Dexter is 7th I think is a better outside shooter from beyond the arch than Dex, 7th is streaky but the reasons for that I think can be worked on. Dexter just didn't have range with accuracy out to the trey. I do wonder had Dex not got hurt, how much more he would have developed. Truth is BRob may be a better shooter than either of them! LOL
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Given his dad's persona, LD prolly thought he already knew everything ;).

Seriously, he was frustrating as hell to watch from this end. I mean, he had the PG pedigree, looked good and unselfish in All-Star games, and when he wanted to could execute his role in our system beautifully. Then there was the dark side --- constantly pounding the ball without trying to move the defense, forcing shots and worse, dicking around with the ball and just stalling the Secondary Break after the first option. That had to drive Roy crazy. Must have, because it had to be hard for Roy, being friends with his dad and all, to send him to the bench in favor of Butter. Objectively, that move was long overdue, but still.....
 
mikeirbyusa said:
Think he would have to be a PG.
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I would assume for him to get highly drafted in todays systems where size and intangibles are the most highly valued aspects, then yes I would agree PG would be the spot for him. Then again every so often somebody comes along who doesn't fit the mold but makes it work. I just mentioned it because earlier in the thread there was mention that his people pushed him to more PG duties which didn't work out. Interested if you feel UNC will eventually go this way or if they avoid him playing the PG for any extended amount of time?
 
DevilBlue said:
I would assume for him to get highly drafted in todays systems where size and intangibles are the most highly valued aspects, then yes I would agree PG would be the spot for him. Then again every so often somebody comes along who doesn't fit the mold but makes it work. I just mentioned it because earlier in the thread there was mention that his people pushed him to more PG duties which didn't work out. Interested if you feel UNC will eventually go this way or if they avoid him playing the PG for any extended amount of time?
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Agreed PG will probably have to be his official position on an NBA roster given his size. But he could definitely be more of a scoring PG if he gets on a team that has good ball movement from their other players. Something in the style of a Steph Curry or Kemba Walker - please keep in mind I said in the style of - I'm in no way saying Seventh will be anywhere near as good as Curry and Walker, just that those two should be the ones he models his game after. Although - maybe Kemba is the better style comp, as it doesn't sound like Seventh's jumper is good enough to be a predominantly 3 point shooter like Steph.
 
DevilBlue said:
I would assume for him to get highly drafted in todays systems where size and intangibles are the most highly valued aspects, then yes I would agree PG would be the spot for him. Then again every so often somebody comes along who doesn't fit the mold but makes it work. I just mentioned it because earlier in the thread there was mention that his people pushed him to more PG duties which didn't work out. Interested if you feel UNC will eventually go this way or if they avoid him playing the PG for any extended amount of time?
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It is like anything else you try to do for the first time, there are going to be some struggles in the beginning. While I agree that it is late in his career to be trying to convert to being a PG, while most would have been a PG in their freshman season of high school, the situation just developed that he didn't make that change until very late.

No it did not go well last summer, but who do you know that rolled over 200 the very first time they bowled, who do you know that ran a rack of balls the first time they shot pool, did you spank the ball 300 yards the very first time you hit a golf ball off a tee? Give the kid some time, he has the dedication to put in the work and the will to strive for excellence.
 
heelmanwilm said:
Aside from both being renowned dunkers i dont see many similarities myself in the limited video i've seen of woods. Maybe i'm selfish but i'm expecting way more from woods than tokoto brought.
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Agreed. I'm still of the mindset that we won't see too much of Seventh freshman year due to limited minutes but as he progresses he'll become much more dynamic than JP.
 
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DSouthr said:
I lumped Drew in there as a player because I felt Drew had a lot to learn as a PG and clearly more to learn than he seemed to be able to admit but had the ability. Just me but I just have never really saw 7th in the same way I saw Dex, I really think 7th has a good bit more upside, again, just opinion. For me personally the name that sticks is Rodney Purvis.

One difference with Dexter is 7th I think is a better outside shooter from beyond the arch than Dex, 7th is streaky but the reasons for that I think can be worked on. Dexter just didn't have range with accuracy out to the trey. I do wonder had Dex not got hurt, how much more he would have developed. Truth is BRob may be a better shooter than either of them! LOL
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careful...made the same game comparison between ld2 & woods just last week and the villagers became upset...and it wasn't a 1 for 1 comparison, it more of a development comparison and possible maturity comparison.
 
gteeitup said:
careful...made the same game comparison between ld2 & woods just last week and the villagers became upset...and it wasn't a 1 for 1 comparison, it more of a development comparison and possible maturity comparison.
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Attitude wise and level of maturity (maturity of the person and not his game) can be seen as an attitude related issue and in that light 7th and Drew could not be more different. Reason I bring Drew in to the discussion is as a gauge of 7th as a PG skill wise right now. With his highly coachable attitude and crazy athletism, 7th upside is MUCH higher IMO.

It is ONLY that narrow slice of where I think 7th will be when the season comes AS A PG and only considering his PG ability (in no way referencing his ability to play at the 2 guard spot in this sliced out comparison) and ONLY considering that in the narrow scope of the beginning of next season. I am in no way comparing them as Tar Heels or team members.

This thread seemed to want to compare JP to 7th and outside of the fact that both were extremely athletic for their position AND both seemed to need to change the position they had played most of their pre-UNC career at, other than those 2 items it is to me like trying to compare an elephant to a ant, they are just really different.

I can see the Dex comparisons easier than I can to JP, because they both tried to learn to be PGs really late, actually Dex was even later than 7th in that respect. I think the better comparison for JP is to Theo. But for me 7th has the more abiliity and IMO is a good bit more athletic than Dex and Dex was pretty darn athletic for sure, 7th is freakish at times. 7th IMO is a much better shooter from distance than Dex was, 7th is just streaky and as I have said in another couple posts, the reasons 7th is streaky is something I think can be worked on and leveled out. Be glad to explain why I say that if needed.
 
DSouthr said:
I can see the Dex comparisons easier than I can to JP, because they both tried to learn to be PGs really late, actually Dex was even later than 7th in that respect. I think the better comparison for JP is to Theo.
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This is what I've been saying for a while now regarding all of these guys.

This coming season is when I hope to see Theo do something JP had trouble doing - playing consistent team ball. Both are talented but somewhat Lone Rangerish. Both athletic. Both cheerful (at least until the last third of JP's junior year). I hope to see it click for Theo.

One thing that JP had that neither Theo or 7th has shown is what I think of as anti-gravity boots. I swear JP's hang time violated the laws of physics.
 
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Better handles and jumper already--JP played good D but 'acted' tougher than what he really was..he learned you can't play in the NBA without a consistent jumper and tight dribbles
 
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