a key reason our D staff sucks

[WoadBlue]

our assistant coach salaries are at the bottom of the ACC

"Among the eight ACC universities required to disclose public records in USA Today's database, UNC ranked last in total assistant coach pay at about $2 million."

 

[UNC '92]

Quoted from the link Woad supplied:

"I think there are a lot of attractive reasons to be at North Carolina, but I don't think pay is one that is a driver for us," Cunningham said.

I am not even sure how to take that. But if he is saying pay doesn't need to be as high here because we are so awesome every where else, then we will continue to be second rate. I know everybody doesn't feel the same way, but I'm sure most people work for the money they need to make to support themselves and/or their families. And while I'm sure they make enough to do so, if they are good, they will leave when something else better comes along.

This reminds me of some time ago back in the late 90s. I was working for a pretty large telco company in Atlanta as one of their Cisco and Email guys. Maybe I was a little excited to be snagging a job at such a large stable employer or maybe it was the draw of Atlanta to a young man, but I took the job without really checking how much the position should be paying in that area. After all, I reasoned it was more than I was currently making.

Well, I found out shortly after arriving that I was low man on the totem pole salary wise, which wouldn't be a bad thing since I was the new guy, but was pretty bad when I realized I was almost 20,000 a year below the market average in Atlanta. I waited a year, as I thought it was the right thing to do. After I received a 3.5 increase in pay for achieving good results and being rated as an "exceeds expectations" I asked to speak with our Director in hopes of securing something closer to market salary.

When I arrived at his office to speak, he cut me short and right away told me if I was asking for more money then his answer is no. He said he found that giving people raises to make them happy never works and that I should find other reasons to want to be there. I couldn't believe what I just heard. So by the end of that week I went out and secured a job that was paying me $29k more and handed in my 2 week notice the following Monday morning. The same director asked to speak to me again before I left and he made a pitch to me that offered more money but not nearly what I was being paid to leave. Of course I turned him down. He asked me what it would take to stay but at this point I was not willing to hear any more.

It turns out he was wrong with his initial advice, I'm much happier being paid what I am worth today. I decided to never let that happen to me again. I don't go to work for fellowship and free coffee. I go to work for money.

This post was edited on 12/1 8:17 AM by UNC '92

 

[WoadBlue]

Originally posted by UNC '92:
Quoted from the link Woad supplied:

"I think there are a lot of attractive reasons to be at North Carolina, but I don't think pay is one that is a driver for us," Cunningham said.

I am not even sure how to take that. But if he is saying pay doesn't need to be as high here because we are so awesome every where else, then we will continue to be second rate. I know everybody doesn't feel the same way, but I'm sure most people work for the money they need to make to support themselves and/or their families. And while I'm sure they make enough to do so, if they are good, they will leave when something else better comes along.

This reminds me of some time ago back in the late 90s. I was working for a pretty large telco company in Atlanta as one of their Cisco and Email guys. Maybe I was a little excited to be snagging a job at such a large stable employer or maybe it was the draw of Atlanta to a young man, but I took the job without really checking how much the position should be paying in that area. After all, I reasoned it was more than I was currently making.

Well, I found out shortly after arriving that I was low man on the totem pole salary wise, which wouldn't be a bad thing since I was the new guy, but was pretty bad when I realized I was almost 20,000 a year below the market average in Atlanta. I waited a year, as I thought it was the right thing to do. After I received a 3.5 increase in pay for achieving good results and being rated as an "exceeds expectations" I asked to speak with our Director in hopes of securing something closer to market salary.

When I arrived at his office to speak, he cut me short and right away told me if I was asking for more money then his answer is no. He said he found that giving people raises to make them happy never works and that I should find other reasons to want to be there. I couldn't believe what I just heard. So by the end of that week I went out and secured a job that was paying me $29k more and handed in my 2 week notice the following Monday morning. The same director asked to speak to me again before I left and he made a pitch to me that offered more money but not nearly what I was being paid to leave. Of course I turned him down. He asked me what it would take to stay but at this point I was not willing to hear any more.

It turns out he was wrong with his initial advice, I'm much happier being paid what I am worth today. I decided to never let that happen to me again. I don't go to work for fellowship and free coffee. I go to work for money.

This post was edited on 12/1 8:17 AM by UNC '92

Yours is a most pertinent tale.

What kind of coach would take less money to coach at UNC than at, say, Ole Miss or Miss St or UK or Arkansas? Only a dedicated UNC alum.

How many UNC alums are 1st rate football coaches, HCs or coordinators or position coaches? Not enough to use up your fingers counting them. Of the UNC alum 1st rate coaches, how many defintely wiil take less money to coach at UNC than at a school willing to invest in football? Probably none.

 

[UNC '92]

Originally posted by WoadBlue:
Yours is a most pertinent tale.

What kind of coach would take less money to coach at UNC than at, say, Ole Miss or Miss St or UK or Arkansas? Only a dedicated UNC alum.

How many UNC alums are 1st rate football coaches, HCs or coordinators or position coaches? Not enough to use up your fingers counting them. Of the UNC alum 1st rate coaches, how many defintely wiil take less money to coach at UNC than at a school willing to invest in football? Probably none.

I believe you are 100% correct, especially that last statement. If there is a first rate coach, especially an asst/coordinator, they will seek something new with better tradition if we don't pay them. UNC guy or not. And even if we pay them we have to commit to football as a university or they will leave.

Heck, if someone fits the bill as 1st rate, and is a UNC guy, why wouldn't we want to pay them what they are worth? Show the love and commitment. Otherwise, I wouldn't think you were serious anyway.

 

[strummingram]

You get what you pay for.

 

[HeelFan58]

Dumb azz HR guys decided a few years back that pay was not a big motivating factor. LMFAO. No wonder this country is in the shape it's in.

 

[mahncpa1]

You guys are spot on. With this kind of thinking,UNC will never get the best, just what they can afford. I wonder if this logic is also applied to the basketball assistants. I sure hope not!!

 

[franklin street]

Quoted from the link Woad supplied:

"I think there are a lot of attractive reasons to be at North Carolina, but I don't think pay is one that is a driver for us," Cunningham said.

he's correct no one comes here for the money.
i believe we have 27 sports programs and 25 of them lose money.
something needs to change if carolina is to excel at football.

things may need to change if we are going to excel in basketball after roy retires. we won't get a top coach for what roy makes.

 

[WoadBlue]

As it is impossible that our administrators will suddenly see the light and cough up the bucks for already P5-proven top coordinators from winning programs, we have to accept that not only will we not see any new DC with the background of a Muschamp or Pelini, but it is almost equally impossible that we could see a DJ Durkin brought to Chapel Hill (save on the visitor's sideline).

So if we are to keep up our hope by thinking of a new DC and D staff, we might as well think only in terms of DCs at Group of 5 or 1AA schools.

My top such choice now is Memphis DC Barry Odom. When he arrived with 1st time HC Justin Fuente, Odom found a D that sucked at everything. He improved it immediately.

Odom is a young protégée of Gary Pinkel, who took a Mizzou program that had been up and down low mediocre for decades and has made it a winner every year, including back to back SEC East titlles. It looks like some of Pinkel has rubbed off on Odom. He will be hired as DC by a P5 league program before long.

 

[UNC '92]

We can forget about Muschamp. I can't see him coming to the ACC as a D coordinator. I think he will land at Auburn or little Carolina. Whoever we get, he better be good and improve that D right away. The fans already don't show up.

 

[WoadBlue]

Another guy I would be wiling to take as DC over our current staff that I'm certain we could afford: former UAB HC Bill Clark.

The man is out of a program and needs a job.

He was a great HS coach in AL and could help any P5 team recruit players from SEC states. He was hired from HS state championshiop teams to be DC of USA (South AL, which was new to football), and he was a a success as DC. He was given the Jacksonville State job and led the team to an 11-4 record. Then he took over a dead UAB team and in 1 year lifter the team up tp 6-6.

This guy is a winner immediatrely at every level he has been - just Hugh Freeze. He is worth a small gamble, and that would be true even if Koenning and Disch had not given us the worst D in UNC history.





This post was edited on 12/4 8:58 AM by WoadBlue

 

[Raising Heel]

Here are assistant coaches' salaries in the ACC (since the DTH article didn't list them, I'm too lazy to look it up, and ESPN has laid it out in an article this morning). Amounts in parentheses are the national ranking:


1) Clemson $4,448,225 (4th)
2) Virginia Tech $3,583,250 (8th)
3) Florida State $3,386,000 (11th)
4) Louisville $3,225,000 (18th)
5) Virginia $2,908,670 (24th)
6) NC State $2,692,560 (32nd)
7) Georgia Tech $2,233,600 (44th)
8) North Carolina $2,051,667 (53rd)


That's freaking pitiful. If you want the 53rd best football program in the nation, that's exactly how to do it.



This post was edited on 12/11 9:37 AM by Raising Heel

 

[WoadBlue]

Originally posted by Raising Heel:
Here are assistant coaches' salaries in the ACC (since the DTH article didn't list them, I'm too lazy to look it up, and ESPN has laid it out in an article this morning). Amounts in parentheses are the national ranking:


1) Clemson $4,448,225 (4th)
2) Virginia Tech $3,583,250 (8th)
3) Florida State $3,386,000 (11th)
4) Louisville $3,225,000 (18th)
5) Virginia $2,908,670 (24th)
6) NC State $2,692,560 (32nd)
7) Georgia Tech $2,233,600 (44th)
8) North Carolina $2,051,667 (53rd)


That's freaking pitiful. If you want the 53rd best football program in the nation, that's exactly how to do it.



This post was edited on 12/11 9:37 AM by Raising Heel

We pay less than Moo. And the Art Chanskys and BobLeeSezes bleat that we pay too much with too much emphasis on football.



This post was edited on 12/11 10:30 AM by WoadBlue

 

[Raising Heel]

Bob Lee is that drunk uncle at the Christmas gathering that you hope and pray doesn't try to make a toast. Entertaining, maybe, but not someone whose opinion should ever be taken seriously.

As for Chansky, well, he's a hypocritical POS. He was screaming at the top of his lungs that Butch Davis should be fired when The Great Ugliness first emerged because head coaches are responsible for everything under their watch. He then took the exact opposite position on Roy after the winds shifted and that foul odor drifted towards the basketball program.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Joining in this discussion late but I want to respond to several posts above.

One posters said that "this country is in the shape it's in because his HR people said that people should want to stick around for reasons other than money". I would disagree and think almost the opposite. We, society, are in the shape we're in because we value the almighty dollar as where it all starts and stops. Foolish.

I'm in the nonprofit world so I think I know a little something about making wages incongruent with what some might think I'm worth. I also know that I pay my staff what some of you might consider an unlivable wage. But what good is supporting your family monetarily when you can't support them emotionally? What good is that extra $20,000 per year when you work 20 more hours a week and don't get time to spend your money? What good is is a high paying job when you have no job security and don't know for sure if your high paying job will be around 6 months from now?

People value things differently. I've stayed in the same job I've been in for over 7 years. I make a decent salary but certainly not huge. But I come and go as I like. If I don't feel like working one day, I don't. I answer to a Board of Directors but I have no boss in my office. My schedule is whatever I want it to be. I go on field trips with my kids because I can. I stay home with sick kids sometimes because I can. Those things are worth an extra $20,000 more a year in salary. I've had other job offers. I've turned them down because they don't offer me the same flexibility I have now. Flexibility is super important to me.

Lastly, I don't ever measure myself against what the market value is or against what others are making. I measure myself against what suits me and my family's lifestyle. If people in my position are making a lot more than I am, good for them. If I'm happy and making enough to afford the lifestyle I've become accustomed to, why would I care what someone else is making?

Now, I agree that because most people don't think like I do and money is so very important to most, that UNC offering less for assistants will hamper our ability to become elite. But again, what do you value? Is it all about winning and losing? Or is it about creating an environment that is good for employees, students, athletes, etc. Most of you would say it's about winning and losing. And that's cool. I don't think less of people that think that way. But I also recognize that there's more to life than money. There's more to life than Ws and Ls. And Bubba must feel the same way. Hopefully we can find some good coaches that also feel that way.

 

[Raising Heel]

Agree with everything you said, GSD. I'm the same way, which raises the question when talking about coaching salaries: how much is enough? Is a $250,000 salary so incapable of meeting a coach's financial needs that $300,000 is too good to pass up? Those numbers are staggering for the average Joe.

But like you said, people value things differently. I'd be willing to bet that most coaches are alpha dogs and not content settling for second best. Double-edged sword in a way.

 

[grillheel]

Interesting that we paid about 1.5 times more for the Wainstein Report than we pay our assistants. Just an observation.

 

[JamestownJim]

2) Virginia Tech $3,583,250 (8th)

Not sure they are getting their $$$ worth

 

[UNC '92]

Originally posted by UNC '92:
We can forget about Muschamp. I can't see him coming to the ACC as a D coordinator. I think he will land at Auburn or little Carolina. Whoever we get, he better be good and improve that D right away. The fans already don't show up.

Dude you nailed that one! You are sooooo smart!