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Climate Change

We have anyone here that thinks climate change isn't real?

Trump appears to be softening on it although he still moronically thinks cold weather = no global warming.

https://www.apnews.com/f9732784135c4f4a8963daff79e2583e

This is terrifying.
Of course it’s real. The climate has been changing since before the dawn of man. We have it to thank for our existence, and If it hadn’t changed the world would not have been habitable for life at all.
 
Of course it’s real. The climate has been changing since before the dawn of man. We have it to thank for our existence, and If it hadn’t changed the world would not have been habitable for life at all.

Ok, so do you think it's all science or do you think things humans are doing is causing these natural changes to rapidly accelerate thus causing dangerous extreme weather?
 
Ok, so do you think it's all science or do you think things humans are doing is causing these natural changes to rapidly accelerate thus causing dangerous extreme weather?
Recent human existence,perhaps, does share some of the blame for the rapidly changing weather/climate conditions, but I don’t believe it warrants radical/swift de-modernization. Natural, non human events have always affected the climate, more so, than human involvement. Volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, solar cycles have caused much more massive shifts in earth climate than anything humans could do, save for maybe nuclear holocaust. No way today’s predictions are imminent, those are merely meant to frighten the masses into submission. The elite, will never forego modern convenience in the name of ‘saving the earth’. The end game here is to regulate 99% of the earth’s population back into a sort of paleo existence, and the rulers, along with their armed forces will continue to burn fossil fuels as always.
 
Recent human existence,perhaps, does share some of the blame for the rapidly changing weather/climate conditions, but I don’t believe it warrants radical/swift de-modernization. Natural, non human events have always affected the climate, more so, than human involvement. Volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, solar cycles have caused much more massive shifts in earth climate than anything humans could do, save for maybe nuclear holocaust. No way today’s predictions are imminent, those are merely meant to frighten the masses into submission. The elite, will never forego modern convenience in the name of ‘saving the earth’. The end game here is to regulate 99% of the earth’s population back into a sort of paleo existence, and the rulers, along with their armed forces will continue to burn fossil fuels as always.

How do scientists benefit by falsely frightening us? Is this some weird funding grab from them? Seems unlikely to me.
 
Peer reviewed research cycled over and over through the same group of scientists creates a narrative that is then spoon fed, 24/7, to the public by the complicite media. Most in the close knit group of scientists are government subsidized researchers either through direct government funding, grants, or NGO’s. To date over 31,000 scientists have signed a petition questioning the research and data collection methods used in the NOAA modeling, and asked that the raw data be released for further research.
 
How do scientists benefit by falsely frightening us? Is this some weird funding grab from them? Seems unlikely to me.

If someone is going to give you a lot of money to find a certain result, you better believe they're going to find that result. I'm sure it's a lot easier than competing in the private sector. Global warming is nothing more than austerity measures for the peasants. We have to give up our lifestyle so rich people can own yachts, private planes, and gilded age mansions.
 
Peer reviewed research cycled over and over through the same group of scientists creates a narrative that is then spoon fed, 24/7, to the public by the complicite media. Most in the close knit group of scientists are government subsidized researchers either through direct government funding, grants, or NGO’s. To date over 31,000 scientists have signed a petition questioning the research and data collection methods used in the NOAA modeling, and asked that the raw data be released for further research.

The fact that they won't release the raw data is a yuuuuge red flag. It's bigly.
 
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Cigarettes don’t cause cancer. People have always gotten cancer. /s
 
No, just many people want us to get all of our power from solar and wind, like that's going to work.

We could produce a substantial amount of power from solar and wind, with nuclear filling in the gaps. There is absolutely no good reason to keep utilizing carbon based fuel sources. That's the actual point. Anything else is just an attempt at distraction.
 
We could produce a substantial amount of power from solar and wind, with nuclear filling in the gaps. There is absolutely no good reason to keep utilizing carbon based fuel sources. That's the actual point. Anything else is just an attempt at distraction.

Solar and wind aren't even close. "Nucular" is a possible replacement, but we've already discussed that. At least you're offering some realistic alternatives, not like most of these hippies.

One other thing, how do we control countries like China and India? Are we going to pursue Obama's "drone whack-a-mole" foreign policy in an attempt to beat them into submission?
 
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Solar and wind aren't even close. "Nucular" is a possible replacement, but we've already discussed that. At least you're offering some realistic alternatives, not like most of these hippies.

One other thing, how do we control countries like China and India? Are we going to pursue Obama's "drone whack-a-mole" foreign policy in an attempt to beat them into submission?

Maybe we should just hit them with a nucular bomb. Jk.
 
Maybe we should just hit them with a nucular bomb. Jk.

It's a real problem though. China and India are already a pollution issue, and it's only going to get worse. What is the climate change plan for these countries? And if pollution is such an issue, why aren't we producing gas in the US? Why are we having Russia and the ME do it for us?
 
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It's a real problem though. China and India are already a pollution issue, and it's only going to get worse. What is the climate change plan for these countries? And if pollution is such an issue, why aren't we producing gas in the US? Why are we having Russia and the ME do it for us?

Sell them failsafe modern reactors at a discounted rate to subsidize their conversion.
 
I'm not arguing for either side here, but is it cheaper? (In actual costs, not "externalities")

I would think so. I don’t know the numbers off the top of my head though. Externalities are an actual cost though. Just not one that is borne by the oil companies.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

In November, 2018, Lazard found that not only are utility-scale solar and wind cheaper than fossil fuels, "n some scenarios, alternative energy costs have decreased to the point that they are now at or below the marginal cost of conventional generation." Overall, Lazard found "The low end levelized cost of onshore wind-generated energy is $29/MWh, compared to an average illustrative marginal cost of $36/MWh for coal. The levelized cost of utility-scale solar is nearly identical to the illustrative marginal cost of coal, at $36/MWh. This comparison is accentuated when subsidizing onshore wind and solar, which results in levelized costs of energy of $14/MWh and $32/MWh, respectively. ... The mean levelized cost of energy of utility-scale PV technologies is down approximately 13% from last year and the mean levelized cost of energy of onshore wind has declined almost 7%."

The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) says that "renewables are now cheapest energy source", elaborating: "the Bank believes that renewable energy markets in many of the countries where it invests have reached a stage where the introduction of competitive auctions will lead both to a steep drop in electricity prices and an increase in investment." [39] The World Bank (World Bank) President Jim Yong Kim agreed on 10 October 2018: "We are required by our by-laws to go with the lowest cost option, and renewables have now come below the cost of [fossil fuels]."
 
So, we spend even more money on this boondoggle? Why not handle the issue here where we can control the quality and create more jobs?

You asked how we address the issue of those countries. I proposed a solution. I never said we would also handle the issue here... presumably if we have enough reactors to sell, then we have already implemented them here
 
The simplest and most obvious solution is to kill anyone under the age of five and anyone 65 or older.
Adopt a Logan's Run system

"RENEW!"

I think the planet is sick of the human species, to be perfectly direct. So much promise and potential and we gave it up- or wasted it- for greed and superstitions. The reptilian brain was too much to overcome!
 
I do find it hilarious that trump wants to change interpretation of the constitution by executive order cause he feels hes smarter than the dozens of judges who’ve ruled in favor of birth citizenship and now he rejects scientific studies of climate change cause he “doesnt believe them”. Wow a constitutional lawyer thats not a lawyer and a climate change scientist that’s not a scientist. Quite the ego.
 
In the past - saying scientists are wrong generally doesn't work out. These guys test and retest and get 3rd 4th and 80th opinions on something before they publish it.

Clergy did it during the Dark Ages (and beyond), dictators did it after that (ask Stalin how he felt when we completed the bomb despite his scientists pleading with him to start it), and now Trump and his cronies.

If we don't learn from history we're doomed to repeat it.
 
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I do find it hilarious that trump wants to change interpretation of the constitution by executive order cause he feels hes smarter than the dozens of judges who’ve ruled in favor of birth citizenship and now he rejects scientific studies of climate change cause he “doesnt believe them”. Wow a constitutional lawyer thats not a lawyer and a climate change scientist that’s not a scientist. Quite the ego.
Trump doesn't have the brain cells to understand climate change nor the brain cells to listen to people who do.
 
Solar and wind aren't even close. "Nucular" is a possible replacement, but we've already discussed that. At least you're offering some realistic alternatives, not like most of these hippies.

One other thing, how do we control the pollution habits of countries like China and India? Are we going to pursue Obama's "drone whack-a-mole" foreign policy in an attempt to beat them into submission?
Nole - this is 100% spot on and is what I came on here to post. If collectively we as an ENITIRE WORLD HUMAN POPULATION (not just evil capitalist Americans) were to concede the point that man causes significant global warming via burning carbon based fuels (a claim that has been widely refuted by objective scientific evidence BTW).....

....well, then, fine. These global warmists (like AO Cortez) should be doing their sit-ins and protests in Bejing and Bombay. Not DC.

Look at any map of air pollution from carbon burning. All of India and China are bright red to burnt red (with red signifying air pollution)..... much of Europe and Asia is light pink.... US is white as snow. US air cleanliness has improved drastically over the last 40 years, and has never been cleaner over last 40 years.

But the GW crowd can't be bothered with facts or evidence. These stubborn things (facts) can't get in the way of their constant "capitalist America bad" message and agenda.

I am seriously asking: why don't these GW people address the issue (if proven to exist) with the actual factual evidence-proven CAUSER of the issue -India and China? What can they/we do to influence these countries?

If one neighbor (China) is pumping an alarming amount of sewage into your neighborhood water supply, and you contribute trace amounts to this sewage..... is the main priority to eliminate your trace amounts, or somehow get the polluting neighbor to stop their polluting? And how does one go about doing this, especially with China, who is very unfriendly to the US in every imaginable way?

Its NOT like global warming over the continent of America is only caused by American actions, GW over China is contained to the continent of China, etc. So whatever solution or policy is reached, it has to be a GLOBAL policy. Not sure how that happens. Remember the Paris accord US got out of because it dictated that America meet unrealistic carbon emission goals, and every other nation had basically ZERO accountability? Paris accord was a good predictor of how serious or committed other non-US nations are about combatting GW. ie - not at all. They will continue out-of-control pollution with no remorse if it means their lesser, weaker (than US) economies have a better chance at competing without the air pollution regulations being imposed on them.

If we are upset about GW, our wrath ( FWIW) should be pointed at the Chinese, not capitalist America. How do the GW crowd not get this? If American emissions went to zero (which would cause the end of the capitalist economy and cause massive poverty and suffering in America and worldwide).... it still would have no measurable impact on world pollution especially if India and China get to continue their massive pollution, undeterred.
 
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I am seriously asking: why don't these GW people address the issue (if proven to exist) with the actual factual evidence-proven CAUSER of the issue -India and China? What can they/we do to influence these countries?

That's a good question. If India and China are the largest pollutants, you'd think they would get the majority of the pressure to stop. Really, the pressure should be commensurate with the amount of pollution added.
 
Let’s see, 13 degrees more by 2099. So if it hasn’t increased by at least 3 degrees by 2040, I will expect any of you that are still here to kill yourselves as your debt for the lies.
 
We trust science that the earth isnt flat. None of us can prove it by our observations. We trust science that dinosaurs existed, continents drifted, ancient civilizations existed, distant galaxies exist, immunizations work, for chrissakes we accept the science that we live on a ball covered with water spinning in space, yet so many dont trust science about climate change. Why? Well because its become a political issue and the nation is overrun with flaming dumbasses who put political agenda and religious folk lore ahead of science. If the dems stated water is wet in their platform the repubs would deny it. And vice versa.
 
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We trust science that the earth isnt flat. None of us can prove it by our observations. We trust science that dinosaurs existed, continents drifted, ancient civilizations existed, distant galaxies exist, immunizations work, yet so many dont trust science about climate change. Why? Well because its become a political issue and the nation is overrun with flaming dumbasses who put political agenda and religious folk lore ahead of science. If the dems stated water is wet in their platform the repubs would deny it. And vice versa.

A lot of money has been spent on convincing these dumbasses that the science is unclear. The same firms that worked for the tobacco companies are now working for the oil industry, and pretty much every climate change denier will spout off the exact talking points they push.
 
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