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Enough with the nonsense!

Three or 4 of us here thought Withers should start. At the moment it looks like bringing Withers off the bench was the right decision - although how much of that is because the concussion meant he got off to a slow start?

I won't be surprised if Withers starts some or a lot later on, but we have several guys who are likely to be good enough to start. Wojcik is one of them and his maturity and IQ are, for the moment, edging out guys who probably have more upside.

I'm OK with that.

We have a number of players who need to demand PT by the way they play the minutes they get. Trimble, for example, made an argument for more PT in the last game. Washington, too.
Wojcik does have a sky high turnover rate right now. In fairness to him, Cadeau’s is even higher.

I don’t see the point of Wojcik starting. He’s not even playing starting minutes as a starter right now. It reminds me a lot of Desmond Hubert and Joel James.
 
I'm just not seeing that bro. RJ against UCR was 3-11 FG and 1-7 from three and only had 1 FT. That is incredibly unimpressive for a UNC senior PG or 2 guard and this is against UCR !!!! When RJ gets to playing some of the better comp coming up quick he will be exposed as a serious liability. He is not a PG either. Marginal handle .. plays laterally and when he does that he's looking for his own shot. If UNC intends to thrive in transition then it aint gonna happen with RJ on the floor. If UNC wants to put their best 5 on the floor then it aint RJ or Cormac in the line up and hubcap needs to get get his head out his hind end and realize the obvious... once again we are seeing last year take duex. imo
RJ is what he is and I think we’ll need his scoring to be as good as we want them to be this year.

One thing with Cormac. He’s been an elite transition player throughout his career. Like 90+ percentile good. I think Cormac plays much better with Cadeau than this point guard-less starting 5 we currently throw out.

I don’t think a Cadeau, Trimble backcourt (presumably with Ingram if you don’t like Ryan) works because there won’t be any spacing unless Cadeau ends up shooting it really well.
 
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I'm just not seeing that bro. RJ against UCR was 3-11 FG and 1-7 from three and only had 1 FT. That is incredibly unimpressive for a UNC senior PG or 2 guard and this is against UCR !!!! When RJ gets to playing some of the better comp coming up quick he will be exposed as a serious liability. He is not a PG either. Marginal handle .. plays laterally and when he does that he's looking for his own shot. If UNC intends to thrive in transition then it aint gonna happen with RJ on the floor. If UNC wants to put their best 5 on the floor then it aint RJ or Cormac in the line up and hubcap needs to get get his head out his hind end and realize the obvious... once again we are seeing last year take duex. imo
Im seriously trying to wrap my head around this whole post. I firmly believe you’re on crack and it’s not even good crack. Lol. Jk maybe
 
Three or 4 of us here thought Withers should start. At the moment it looks like bringing Withers off the bench was the right decision - although how much of that is because the concussion meant he got off to a slow start?

I won't be surprised if Withers starts some or a lot later on, but he's just 1 of several guys who are likely to be good enough to start. Wojcik is one of them, too, and his maturity and IQ are, for the moment, edging out guys who probably have more upside.

I'm OK with that.

We have a number of players who need to demand PT by the way they play the minutes they get. Trimble, for example, made an argument for more PT in the last game. Washington, too.
Well, in the Bahamas I think we will play 3 games in 3 days and it is against legit competition. I think they all will get minutes in Atlantis, and I also think it will help to sort out his bench rotation as they move forward ending up with a solid 8, with a few capable spot minute guys behind them.

I am still of the mind that RJ, Mando, Ryan, Ingram, and Cadeau are going to see the majority of time, if healthy, when we get down to brass tacks. I'm also thinking Withers may be the 6th man type role with substantial run. Jalen & Seth the next tier getting shorter, but still consistent minutes each game.

Wojcik may still surprise me, but I think his minutes will lessen. High and the rest a couple minutes here and there as needed.
 
I do think it’s kinda funny how people think coach hasn’t had this convo or explained the situation with EC. EC knows what’s up guys. They have a plan. I hope lol 😬
 
He's going to be our best PG. We can already see that. But is he right now? Maybe, but we don't need to put him through what Marcus went through.

Marcus survived. EC probably would, too, but why "force" him to?
EC became the program's best PG as soon as he signed on the dotted line. And it's not close.

And I'm not sure what you think Marcus "went through"? His real struggles were back when he was the only actual Guard on the floor for too much of the 2014-15 season and regularly got the living crap beat out of him. JB made his life WAY easier and our output skyrocketed when they were on the floor together.

And of course, in 2015-16 when Roy finally gave Joel the keys, we go to the Natty game. Had he not done that, we don't so much as sniff it. No way, no how.
 
Well, in the Bahamas I think we will play 3 games in 3 days and it is against legit competition. I think they all will get minutes in Atlantis, and I also think it will help to sort out his bench rotation as they move forward ending up with a solid 8, with a few capable spot minute guys behind them.

I am still of the mind that RJ, Mando, Ryan, Ingram, and Cadeau are going to see the majority of time, if healthy, when we get down to brass tacks. I'm also thinking Withers may be the 6th man type role with substantial run. Jalen & Seth the next tier getting shorter, but still consistent minutes each game.

Wojcik may still surprise me, but I think his minutes will lessen. High and the rest a couple minutes here and there as needed.
This is right in alignment with my thoughts as well.
 
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I firmly believe you’re on crack and it’s not even good crack.
Crack or not stats don't lie. RJ is not a pg, an undersized 2 and a defensive liability. He will be exposed sooner rater than later. To each their own bro.
 
Crack or not stats don't lie. RJ is not a pg, an undersized 2 and a defensive liability. He will be exposed sooner rater than later. To each their own bro.
I never said to you that he was a pg. never said he wasn’t an undersized 2. However, to think, think I said, that he’s not one of our top 5 players is completely baseless and goofy. You gonna go off stats for three games? And with RJ and Rayan not in the top five, who you have as our best five? With stats
 
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I would say Charlie Scott and Billy Cunningham?
It was Bob MacAdoo & Rasheed Wallace

After Coach Smith retired, he addressed this again when asked what he thought about all the high school players jumping straight to the NBA. He said in 36 years of coaching at North Carolina, there were only four players he recruited who were ready to play in the NBA right out of high school.

And Michael Jordan wasn't one of them.

James Worthy, Rasheed Wallace, Sam Perkins and Kevin Garnett, Smith said. "They all had size, quickness and skills.”
 
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And I'm not sure what you think Marcus "went through"? His real struggles were back when he was the only actual Guard on the floor for too much of the 2014-15 season and regularly got the living crap beat out of him.
I'm talking about his freshman year, of course. 2012-13.

I hate to think what that brutal season would have done to Marcus if he didn't have Dex and Reggie out there with him. They let Marcus get a little bit of "rest" on the floor - when Dex would take the ball for a bit. And Reggie was careful with the ball, so that made it easier.

Yeah, he lost that support the next year, but he had turned the corner with their help and he was tough enough by then.
 
It was Bob MacAdoo & Rasheed Wallace

After Coach Smith retired, he addressed this again when asked what he thought about all the high school players jumping straight to the NBA. He said in 36 years of coaching at North Carolina, there were only four players he recruited who were ready to play in the NBA right out of high school.

And Michael Jordan wasn't one of them.

James Worthy, Rasheed Wallace, Sam Perkins and Kevin Garnett, Smith said. "They all had size, quickness and skills.”
Actually reading that I do recall Dean saying that about Sheed and it doesn't shock me he said that about Bob McAdoo but I was thinking it was about a freshman?
 
And with RJ and Rayan not in the top five, who you have as our best five? With stats
ATM I'd trade RJ for EC and Washington for Ryan. EC is simply a superior PG and Jalen Washington may not have the stamina yet but I'd take him over Ryan all day. After the Battle for Atlantis it may be different but I just don't understand how you can keep Washington's length, and outside shot off the floor. But there are many things HD does I'll never understand .. and his line-ups and sub patterns are two of 'em.
 
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ATM I'd trade RJ for EC and Washington for Ryan. EC is simply a superior PG and Jalen Washington may not have the stamina yet but I'd take him over Ryan all day. After the Battle for Atlantis it may be different but I just don't understand how you can keep Washington's length, and outside shot off the floor. But there are many things HD does I'll never understand .. and his line-ups and sub patterns are two of 'em.
It sounds reactionary to a small sample size to me. But I wouldn't mind starting Jalen over Wojcik if Cadeau is coming off the bench. There is something to learn about Washington IMO. Also, there's a likelihood that either Washington or Withers (or someone else) will have to fill in at some point when Bacot turns an ankle, or someone misses a game due to illness.
 
It sounds reactionary to a small sample size to me.
It is a bit early in the season but with the experience this group is bringing in and the level of play against these, what I consider lesser, teams the results, or maybe performance out of the gate of this group is less than impressive. UNC bball traditionally thrived and lived off of great PG play, defense and TRANSITION. And that article AJ wrote about taking time to gel is a cop out cause there is no way in hell your team can gel without giving your best pg PT out of the gate. jmo
 
It is a bit early in the season but with the experience this group is bringing in and the level of play against these, what I consider lesser, teams the results, or maybe performance out of the gate of this group is less than impressive. UNC bball traditionally thrived and lived off of great PG play, defense and TRANSITION. And that article AJ wrote about taking time to gel is a cop out cause there is no way in hell your team can gel without giving your best pg PT out of the gate. jmo
Well, I agree that Cadeau should've started from day 1. I'll disagree with your opinion on traditional UNC basketball. Over the last 20 years, I think we're an offensive first, then figure out the defense style of program. Since Roy's first year we finished in the top 20 in adj offensive efficiency 13 times. We finished in the top 20 in adj defensive efficiency 6 times. In recent history, we had to score to win and it looks like this team might play out that way too.

I know everyone is obsessed with tempo and how many minutes everyone is getting. But this team has to shoot the ball significantly better from 3 than they did last year to be any kind of real threat in March. And there are people here who think this is a Final Four caliber team. If that's the case, RJ and Ryan are really important players on this team.

I'll be a broken record about this. I think it's hard to grade this team until Cadeau starts. So the first 3 games are somewhat meaningless to me for the big picture for the remainder of the season.
 
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ATM I'd trade RJ for EC and Washington for Ryan. EC is simply a superior PG and Jalen Washington may not have the stamina yet but I'd take him over Ryan all day. After the Battle for Atlantis it may be different but I just don't understand how you can keep Washington's length, and outside shot off the floor. But there are many things HD does I'll never understand .. and his line-ups and sub patterns are two of 'em.
Guess that’s why you aren’t a coach.. I agree Ec should start and think he will start soon but if Ryan and RJ are on the bench who is going to make threes? Defenses are just going to pack the lane.. Washington’s sample size for hitting outside shots is small.. the potential is there but it’s not proven.. Ingram can make threes but the eye test will tell you he’s not a pure shooter.. the only proven 3 point shooters are Ryan are RJ
 
Guess that’s why you aren’t a coach.. I agree Ec should start and think he will start soon but if Ryan and RJ are on the bench who is going to make threes? Defenses are just going to pack the lane..
OK lets just look at some stats after 3 games against (over matched on paper) opponents where UNC was double digit favs against non-top 25 teams:

RJ is 17 of 39 from 2 for 44% and 5 of 18 from 3 for a whopping 28% and ....
Cormac is 6 of 21 from 2 for a jaw dropping 29% and 3 of 14 from 3 for a blistering 21% ...

With %'s like that defenses would need to double team them both and leave the middle wide open right? And RJ is a senior and Ryan is a freaking grad student. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for the moment and get back with ya after Atlantis.
 
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I'm just not seeing that bro. RJ against UCR was 3-11 FG and 1-7 from three and only had 1 FT. That is incredibly unimpressive for a UNC senior PG or 2 guard and this is against UCR !!!! When RJ gets to playing some of the better comp coming up quick he will be exposed as a serious liability. He is not a PG either. Marginal handle .. plays laterally and when he does that he's looking for his own shot. If UNC intends to thrive in transition then it aint gonna happen with RJ on the floor. If UNC wants to put their best 5 on the floor then it aint RJ or Cormac in the line up and hubcap needs to get get his head out his hind end and realize the obvious... once again we are seeing last year take duex. imo
Always nice when you judge a 4 year player based on one game.... I think RJ definitely should be starting for what it's worth. He's not a great point guard and he can't really defend but he's easily our best shooter. He should just be playing off the ball more.
 
We better shoot the 3 to a respectable level, the margin of error is just too small if we play 2's against the average 3 point utilizing teams.

Ryan and RJ are vital components.
 
ATM I'd trade RJ for EC and Washington for Ryan. EC is simply a superior PG and Jalen Washington may not have the stamina yet but I'd take him over Ryan all day. After the Battle for Atlantis it may be different but I just don't understand how you can keep Washington's length, and outside shot off the floor. But there are many things HD does I'll never understand .. and his line-ups and sub patterns are two of 'em.
And I definitely agree. Wash is a beast I’d love to see at the 4 and EC, RJ and Ryan at the 123. I feel EC would carve it up and dish for RJ and Ryan(who could catch and shoot without dribble then fade to the side crap) I feel that’s why he’s struggling on the long ball.
 
It is a bit early in the season but with the experience this group is bringing in and the level of play against these, what I consider lesser, teams the results, or maybe performance out of the gate of this group is less than impressive. UNC bball traditionally thrived and lived off of great PG play, defense and TRANSITION. And that article AJ wrote about taking time to gel is a cop out cause there is no way in hell your team can gel without giving your best pg PT out of the gate. jmo
What I see that ahs maybe resulted in less than expected margins in our games so far is we are getting MUCH MUCH better shots than we have in several years but good shooters are not hitting them. Both Ryan and Wojic, 2 of our 3 "green light" jump shooters per Hubert are missing a lot of clean looks. And even RJ so far is not lighting it up like we would expect.

On another thread we are arguing the Cadeau not starting thing but I would suggest that Cadeau not starting has nothing to do with these guys missing clean open jump shots. If what they were taking were bad contested shots then I could both agree that Cadeau not starting could be the problem, that maybe he could create clean looks but they have been getting clean looks, just have not been dropping them. It is a bit concerning because opposing teams, guards especially have been having to take much harder shots but they are making them at a surprising clip.
 
We are getting 31.4ppg 17.6 rebounds/g from our 5 spot through 3 games.
I think a by product, (who knows how much), of the game plan against lesser teams by going to our 5 man repeatedly, could be why the shooters are not shooting in rhythm 🤔. I could be wrong, but if a shooter is thinking feed the post EVERY time he touches it, they are probably somewhat unprepared to shoot naturally on the catch.
I think playing better competition will translate into players playing more instinctively and shooting numbers will increase.
I would like to see Cadeau start tomorrow to begin forming a rotation that we all think will be in place eventually.
 
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Always nice when you judge a 4 year player based on one game....
I judged it by his shooting stats after the first three games against what were "lesser opponents". Hope he gets out of his funk soon and I think it will help if doesn't have to play pg. He needs to be moving without the ball and working off screens and cuts for better shots. jmo
 
Hubert hasn’t shown to be a great coach, and continuing to play marginal players over elite freshman will put the nail in his coffin sooner than later given the win/loss results we’ve seen under him. again, he does the same stuff over and over.
 
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continuing to play marginal players over elite freshman will put the nail in his coffin sooner than later given the win/loss results we’ve seen under him. again, he does the same stuff over and over.
And the multi-million dollar question is why ??
 
Hubert hasn’t shown to be a great coach, and continuing to play marginal players over elite freshman will put the nail in his coffin sooner than later given the win/loss results we’ve seen under him. again, he does the same stuff over and over.
Ah, great coach in 2 years? Jury out, don't think that is possible. Even with a national runner up quick, I agree. Glad it wasn't the early nail in the coffin for Dean, sheesh you guys hanging him in effigy would of won.
 
Ah, great coach in 2 years? Jury out, don't think that is possible. Even with a national runner up quick, I agree. Glad it wasn't the early nail in the coffin for Dean, sheesh you guys hanging him in effigy would of won.

The narrative would be so much different if we'd have held on to that 15 point halftime lead against Kansas. It would have at least bought him several more years before we had a Kevin Ollie situation on our hands.
 
The narrative would be so much different if we'd have held on to that 15 point halftime lead against Kansas. It would have at least bought him several more years before we had a Kevin Ollie situation on our hands.
U see the glass half empty, which is ok. It could have fed the fire and landed us elite shooters and recruits to eventually explode into more chips, ultimately buying him decades. Do I believe this? Meh idk.
 
The narrative would be so much different if we'd have held on to that 15 point halftime lead against Kansas. It would have at least bought him several more years before we had a Kevin Ollie situation on our hands.
I have been thinking about that Kansas game a lot lately. I said before the Dook game, that whoever won that monumental Semi-final would have a very difficult time focusing on beating Kansas on Monday night.
We rode that wave of emotion through the first half of the championship, but I think it drained us emotionally and the guys were wore out as much mentally as they were physically in the second half.
I personally don't think last year had anything to do with the FF year, other than the fact that the team was really flawed both years. They just all got extremely hot at the same time at the end of the 2022 season.
 
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U see the glass half empty, which is ok. It could have fed the fire and landed us elite shooters and recruits to eventually explode into more chips, ultimately buying him decades. Do I believe this? Meh idk.

I'm very much a glass half full guy, not sure how you read that as glass half empty. I simply said the narrative would be different. I said nothing of my thoughts or opinions on that game or season.
 
I'm very much a glass half full guy, not sure how you read that as glass half empty. I simply said the narrative would be different. I said nothing of my thoughts or opinions on that game or season.
You said it would have been diff if we had won. Very true. Then you gave an opinion in that we would have a Kevin Ollie situation. That’s the glass half empty part. The glass half full would have been it would have accelerated us in recruiting and possibly more championships. That’s all I was saying. No attack, just diff view.
 
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You said it would have been diff if we had won. Very true. Then you gave an opinion in that we would have a Kevin Ollie situation. That’s the glass half empty part. The glass half full would have been it would have accelerated us in recruiting and possibly more championships. That’s all I was saying. No attack, just diff view.

Fair enough, good points.
 
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